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City of Heroes

City of Heroes 

Paragon City Hall (General)  » CoH F2P rant

14 posts found
  DarthMajin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/08
Posts: 92

 
OP  11/18/11 4:04:45 PM#1

Many might not care, but I need to get this off my chest and get some opinions. When Going Rogue came out, they introduced new power sets. These powersets could only be played if you purchased the expension (mainly dual pistols and demon summoning). I paid $30 for this expansion for a game I am not that interested in, but I wanted to try those new powers. I just came back to Freedom and found out I no longer have access to Demon Summoning. I contacted NC Soft about this and apparently the only thing Going Rogue gave us was the alignment system. So if this is the case, why were we forced to buy an expansion to play those powersets anyway? I feel lied to and cheated by NC Soft now. I don't think I will ever support their games again.

  trancejeremy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 1218

11/19/11 2:30:12 AM#2

I believe that Going Rogue does give you Demon Summoning. What it doesn't give, is the Mastermind class which is required to use Demon Summoning.

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  Quesa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 1265

11/19/11 3:19:46 AM#3

I think those "special" classes are reserved for subcription accounts and/or other special types of accounts.  I think there were some changes made when they converted to F2P.

I could be wrong, just something I remember when playing.

  Amarsir

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/06
Posts: 703

11/19/11 3:06:10 PM#4

I believe the semi-official answer would be "when you bought Going Rogue you needed the box and a subscription to play Demon Summoning. You still do, so you're no worse off." Which is true. But I don't think they've quite managed expectations with the whole F2P conversion either. It's common with games that convert, but it is disappointing to hear "free free free" and then get "woah, not that part." Or to be told that something you already purchased is dependent on something you haven't.

Currently playing:
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  wyldmagik

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/07
Posts: 236

11/19/11 3:08:34 PM#5

so does one actually get the whole game opened to them if they sub? that means dl the client and subbing not going to a store to find and buy it..?

how is the arrangement done here?

  trancejeremy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 1218

11/20/11 2:59:22 AM#6

I think the F2P in this is actually pretty reasonable, honestly, when you compare it to the other western MMORPGs that have gone MMORPG.

It's especially neat how they've rewarded players based on how long they subbed. If you've played a long time, you can play most of the game for free, in terms of content.

And the benefits for subbing seem decent - you get the free story arc missions, 12 character slots per server

For new players who never played before, it can be a bit rough - you can't use inventions, you don't get salvage, you only have 2 characters period. Stil, only 6 archetypes are locked - the 4 epic ones and Mastermind and Controller.

But you can pretty much play to 50. Past that, you can't do the Incarnate stuff, but...

 

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

11/20/11 3:04:19 AM#7
Originally posted by trancejeremy

I think the F2P in this is actually pretty reasonable, honestly, when you compare it to the other western MMORPGs that have gone MMORPG.

It's especially neat how they've rewarded players based on how long they subbed. If you've played a long time, you can play most of the game for free, in terms of content.

And the benefits for subbing seem decent - you get the free story arc missions, 12 character slots per server

For new players who never played before, it can be a bit rough - you can't use inventions, you don't get salvage, you only have 2 characters period. Stil, only 6 archetypes are locked - the 4 epic ones and Mastermind and Controller.

But you can pretty much play to 50. Past that, you can't do the Incarnate stuff, but...

 

In an odd sense, new players have it better off in regard to IOs.  They've never had them.  They've got no idea what they're missing...lol.  Still, a 30 day IO license is very cheap compared to a month's sub.  Unless it's gone up, you could get seven months of IOs for the price of a single VIP month.

I definitely missed being able to use IOs, but you can go with a second build and slot it with SOs/DOs, etc as the case may be.  You'll feel it, people that say you won't are kidding themselves.  Still though, the game was not balanced around IOs.  They're just...nice to have though, heh.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2047

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

11/20/11 10:25:29 AM#8
Originally posted by wyldmagik

so does one actually get the whole game opened to them if they sub? that means dl the client and subbing not going to a store to find and buy it..?

how is the arrangement done here?

You get about 98% of the game opened to you as a Subscriber.

There are a few premium costume sets and power sets that you can purchase on the market, but they're unnecessary.

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2047

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

11/20/11 10:34:19 AM#9
Originally posted by megabuu

Many might not care, but I need to get this off my chest and get some opinions. When Going Rogue came out, they introduced new power sets. These powersets could only be played if you purchased the expension (mainly dual pistols and demon summoning). I paid $30 for this expansion for a game I am not that interested in, but I wanted to try those new powers. I just came back to Freedom and found out I no longer have access to Demon Summoning. I contacted NC Soft about this and apparently the only thing Going Rogue gave us was the alignment system. So if this is the case, why were we forced to buy an expansion to play those powersets anyway? I feel lied to and cheated by NC Soft now. I don't think I will ever support their games again.

 

How exactly do you feel lied and cheated to?  You had to pay to access it before and now you still do.....unless you've committed enough in the past to unlock them.  What i'd advise you do is have a look and see where you are on the Paragon Rewards "bush".  Owning 13 tokens gets you free access to Masterminds and Controllers -- to determine that....

Quoting myself below to determine what you have and what you need for MM access because its easier.

 

Originally posted by therain93
Originally posted by azrael466

I only PAID for a month. However, i used "free months" from different things i got from here, as i said before. I played for, i forget, i have a horrible memory, It was atlest 3 or 4.

So, Paragon rewards aren't based on paid time, but subscription time (as well as points purchased, but that is irrelevant here). The difference is that subscription time includes free time in the box as well time earned for referrals. To figure things out, you need to actually log into the game client, click on a server and then look at that top blue bar:

In box 1, it notes global slots -- free and premium players get a base 2 slots, plus 1 for every year subscribed, plus anything you prevoiusly bought plus 2 if you subscribed during issue 13 (veats), plus 2 if you had going rogue attached to your account before Freedom launched. Those global slots are used to unlock character slots on the servers. It's a fixed number, so you have to be thoughtful where you use them. Subscribers get a base 12 per server plus any more based on the criteria I noted above.

Box 2 is unspent tokens. You earn tokens for subscription time, purchases in the paragon market, and if you ever purchased a box. The subscription time to token calculation before Freedom launched was 1 token for every 3 months plus 1 token for each year. Since freedom launched, it's 1 token for every month subscribed.

The tokens are basically a loyalty rewards/carot to spend money. If you click on the token button, you'll get this screen:

And you can plug tokens in in any order on a given tier, but you must complete an entire tier. Hovering over the slots identifies what you'll get.

Now, for those who bought boxes in the past -- you had to pay subtime to play the game fully. At this juncture, you can play most of the game without a sub, so complaining that you cannot play all of it, regardless of what box you bought is a moot point. If you want to play the entire game, then subscribe/buy points. The point of the freedom model is that you can essentially decide how much you want to pay -- $15/month or perhaps only $1/month, or pay nothing it all. The fact is that, no, you don't have to buy the game again.

 

Originally posted by therain93

Just for reference....

To get lifetime Wentworth's access and play in Mission Architect, regardless of subbing or not (Tier 4), that's 8 tokens -- you can get that with

  • having already purchased 21 months of subtime or
  • having already purchased 18 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* or
  • having already purchased 18 months of subtime + making your first purchase in the paragon market**, or
  • having already purchased 15 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase on the paragon market**, or
  • maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 8 months***
 
To get access to MMs and Controllers ATs, regardless of subbing or not (Tier 5) - that's 13 tokens -- you can get that with
  • having already purchased 33 months of subtime or
  • having already purchased 30 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* or
  • having already purchased 30 months of subtime + making your first puchase in the paragon market**, or
  • having already purchased 27 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase on the paragon market**, or
  • maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 12 months***#
 
To get full access to Mission Architect, regardless of subbing or not (Tier 6), that's 20 tokens -- you can get that with
  • having already purchased 48 months of subtime, or
  • having already purchased 45 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase on the paragon market**, or
  • maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 19 months***#

 

To get lifetime access to IOs, regardless of subbing or not (Tier 7) -- that's 27 tokens -- you can get that with

  • having already purchased 66 months of subtime or
  • having already purchased 63 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* or
  • having already purchased 63 months of subtime + making your first purchase in the paragon market**, or
  • having already purchased 60 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase in the paragon market** or
  • maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 25 months***#

 

* -- you get 1 token if you applied a retail code (box or electronic version). They do honor codes entered after freedom launched.

** -- you get 1 token for your first purchase ever on the paragon market (minimum 400pp = $5.00)

*** -- Going forward, you get 1 token for each month subscribed. For any subtime accumulated before Freedom hit, it is calculated as 1 token for every 3 months.

# -- You get an additional token for every 12 months subscribed..

 

In addition, you get 1 token for every 1200 points ($15.00) spent, cumulatively -- doesn't have to be one purchase.

 

So, the question to the people not subscribing anymore, where do you fall on cumulative earned tokens? You can log in and see how many you have.

If you're a token or 2 away, as is the case of Gravarg, he can make a 1 time $15.00 purchase and get 2 tokens, giving full access to MM and Controllers ATs without subscribing. He can then use that 1200 PP's to buy any fun stuff he wants. For example, he could use that 1200 points to then buy 8 months worth of invention licenses. He now has full access to any IOs. Note: he already qualifies for access to the Auction House and playing in MA.

Now, the question Gravarg must ask is this -- if $15.00/month is too much to play the game, then is less than $2.00/month also too much to play the game? In his shoes, I would say that's an awesome deal and claim that is the beauty of freemium.

 

 

 

 

  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

11/21/11 10:27:32 PM#10

I think Paragon dropped the ball in this intance.   One of the most important unwritten rules in MMORPG's is don't take away something a player has alread paid for or they have to re-earn in game. 

 

 

  therain93

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2047

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

11/21/11 11:58:40 PM#11
Originally posted by Hoplites

I think Paragon dropped the ball in this intance.   One of the most important unwritten rules in MMORPG's is don't take away something a player has alread paid for or they have to re-earn in game. 

 

 

They haven't lied, cheated, or taken anything away.  If you subscribe, just like before Freedom, you have access to all of it.  Now, if you don't subscribe, you have access to lots of stuff for free (unlike in the past when you got no access at all).

  trancejeremy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/08
Posts: 1218

11/23/11 8:59:32 PM#12

Like the OP, I bought Going Rogue because it seemed like the best deal, and getting home tonight I found out my month of VIP had run out.

It does give you Demon Summong. As I had thought, you just need to buy the Mastermind Class. When I hover my mouse over my locked Demon Summoner Mastermind, it says "Mastermind Required" to unlock, just like on my locked Ninja lord and Necromancer.

But my dual pistols characters are unlockable, I still have all the alpha and omega costume pieces, access to Praetoria, etc.

Also kind of interesting - they gave me a new choice of which characters to unlock. I started off with 2 characters as a free player, then when VIP and made a lot more, then going down to premium it let me pick which 2 characters on the server to play, not just the first two I had made when I was free. So sort of nice...

R.I.P. City of Heroes and my 17 characters there

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

11/25/11 11:07:42 AM#13

As a long time vet since 2004-2005ish with some time on and off, without subbing, I have access to the majority of the game except for IO's which costs 120p(?) and I have tons of points available to last me a year until I unlock the tier box. I don't play that much anymore because now I know I can log on at anytime rather than subbing for a month and cramming as much time as I can into that.


Long time vets benefit free 2 play much more than ones that's only been playing for 2 some odd years. But you still gain more when subscribing, which a majority of members in my outfit does.


  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

11/27/11 12:33:11 AM#14
Originally posted by therain93
Originally posted by Hoplites

I think Paragon dropped the ball in this intance.   One of the most important unwritten rules in MMORPG's is don't take away something a player has alread paid for or they have to re-earn in game. 

 

 

They haven't lied, cheated, or taken anything away.  If you subscribe, just like before Freedom, you have access to all of it.  Now, if you don't subscribe, you have access to lots of stuff for free (unlike in the past when you got no access at all).

Going Rogue clearly was about the new power sets and leveling content.  Players that do not have access to what they bought should be compensated.

I will not bother with the Incarnate angle, becaue both sides of the argument can make a good claim.  But,  having powersets not accesible despite buying Going Rogue is morally and ethically wrong.

Paragon screwed up in that regard.