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News & Features Discussion  » World of Warcraft: Challenge Mode Dungeons

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35 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13261

 
OP  11/08/11 10:19:41 AM#1

In his latest WoW Factor column, MMORPG.com's Joe Sanicky takes a look at the recent expansion and the heady news about the Challenge Dungeons that will come with World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria. See what Joe thinks about challenge dungeons and then add your own thoughts in the comments.

To fully explain my point on how incredible a challenge mode could be for the game I require a somewhat extended foray into an older game I used to play, in order to fully elicit the impact of my idea. If you don’t mind a reminiscent analysis and explanation of an old gem of a game please read on, otherwise feel free to skip ahead to the break that signifies I’m once again addressing WoW. Keep in mind contrast is the mother to all meaning, so this tangent is not without reason!

Read more of Joe Sanicky's The WoW Factor: Challenge Mode Dungeons.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  idgarad

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/09
Posts: 175

11/09/11 9:22:45 AM#2

I'll point out the obvious:


"Shouldn't the dungeons be challenging in the first place?"


 


I get the whole achievement whoring mentality for replay value but the replay value in a dungeon, or any game for that matter, should be that it is fun in-of-itself rather then checking off a box on a list of achievements.


What this tells me is "Dungeons are intrinsically boring so we've added a challenge mode to make them more interesting then they normally are."


  JaggaSpikes

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 407

11/09/11 9:31:55 AM#3

"Shouldn't the dungeons be challenging in the first place?"




yes, but to who? challenging to first time players, or old timers decked out in purples? both? sure, but how do you do that? how to rate old timer in gray gear? how to rate noob e-bayer in purples?




difficulty modes. yes, please.





 

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2766

11/09/11 9:34:34 AM#4

The concern here is that groups will want specific classes to better beat the record.  It is inevitable that this will occur.  I don't really like the idea of doing content over and over and over just to set a time record.


  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10551

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/09/11 9:47:48 AM#5


Originally posted by FrodoFragins
The concern here is that groups will want specific classes to better beat the record.  It is inevitable that this will occur.  I don't really like the idea of doing content over and over and over just to set a time record.


Some people do though. The challenge isn't just the dungeon, the challenge is in being better than other players. I can, however, see people expecting to see a challenge mode score of 10 minutes or less in dungeon X in order to join the raid. I'm not sure it matters what you add to the game, there will be people who do the whole gear score thing with everything in the game.

** edit **
I imagine it will be a lot like trying to play League of Legends eventually. At first everyone will be nice, but it'll degenerate into competitive trash talk and a total intolerance for being a newb.

I could be wrong though.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  nyxium

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/09
Posts: 1199

Tumbling down the rabbit hole?

11/09/11 9:51:18 AM#6

This wasn't the multi difficulty level dungeon system I was hoping for. WHYYYYYY do they keep missing the mark? Headroll on the keyboard time.


  ShaunJ1380

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/26/10
Posts: 78

11/09/11 9:51:50 AM#7

I hope it dies in a fire.


  Purutzil

Elite Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 2844

The Critical Hit Pretzel!

11/09/11 9:57:20 AM#8

High scores are more of a 'gimmick' rather then anything else. Its not a feature, just something implimented directly in the game as an extra gimmick when your bored. Its not a bad thing at all, but I don't really buy it being hyped as a 'major deal' as well.

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1595

11/09/11 11:06:23 AM#9

Originally posted by spinner_vis



difficulty modes. yes, please.











 




 


the day that WOW becomes remotley difficult is the day it dies.


"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  sanman7890

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/11
Posts: 97

11/09/11 11:34:14 AM#10

Originally posted by Muke




Originally posted by spinner_vis








difficulty modes. yes, please.























 










 




the day that WOW becomes remotley difficult is the day it dies.





 


The day WoW dies is the day Bliz decides to pull the plug, anything other that is contrived speculation on the fans/non-fans part.


  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3250

11/09/11 12:26:20 PM#11

Wow, what a bloody mess it has become, Even fans get confused about the type of game it is it seems.  I predict 'time control' next where the raid leader can reverse time during a fight - omg wouldnt that be cool and awsome they say!  Then a splash of 'Special single player raid race mode'  with published times! 

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  gimmesome

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 368

11/09/11 12:42:39 PM#12

Originally posted by spinner_vis

"Shouldn't the dungeons be challenging in the first place?"








yes, but to who? challenging to first time players, or old timers decked out in purples? both? sure, but how do you do that? how to rate old timer in gray gear? how to rate noob e-bayer in purples?








difficulty modes. yes, please.











 




 


old timer in purples?    it takes all of a month to become fully decked out in purples.   They hand them out like the free samples given at the grocery store product booths.       


I find it funny that they are implimenting this, because it seems like a mockery of their own gear-grind-tastic system.     Also funny that it doesn't really matter what they add or remove from WoW anymore.  The people that play it will play it no matter what because of habit now.    


Yes, habit.    I've heard it enough, from current wow players in multiple demographics.  and don't care to hear the "but i'm an exception, so you're wrong, no one plays it out of habit. Everyone loves every aspect of WoW." replies.     Glad "you" enjoy the mutated esport version of what once was an MMORPG.  *applause* --   (willing to bet anyone that opposes this response is someone who has only played WoW since wotlk or cata and has no idea what it was like before so)   


anyways...   if i were still playing that game, I wouldn't touch 'challenge-mode" with a 10 foot epic-excessively glowing-sword.     WoW is now a highly advanced lobby gear chase, so why would I want to spend time doing something in normalized gear if I spent the rest of my time chasing purples?   Oh yeah... esport logic.   "I can spam my rotations faster than you and got the 10min achievement"       Esports are cool when you don't make them out of MMORPGS.


  Kolpatep

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 3

11/09/11 12:45:43 PM#13

I personally didn't need another reason to run a dungeon ad nauseum.


I'd rather they implemented scalable dungeons, meaning you can run any dungeon at max level, with bosses/mobs/loot scaled to your level.  Kind of sad that all the old dungeone aren't run unless you are leveling a toon, and even then its usually not worth it.  Some of my favorite dungeons are from BC, be great to run level 85 versions of them. 


  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3250

11/09/11 1:16:17 PM#14

Better still, do what GW1 does, dont increase power of gear at all between tiers, just look and feel.  That way dungeons can be finely tuned and remain interesting when tier x +1 comes out.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  gimmesome

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 368

11/09/11 1:46:28 PM#15
Originally posted by Bladestrom

Better still, do what GW1 does, dont increase power of gear at all between tiers, just look and feel.  That way dungeons can be finely tuned and remain interesting when tier x +1 comes out.

Pretty much.

 

I've always fel that horizontal progression was much more fun and better for the whole player base than vertical progression.  Gearwise, anyways.        Tier 1 and Tier 2, for instance,  should both be equally viable in terms of stat boosts, but perhaps, the difference between the two tiers is 1 looks a certain way and 2 looks a different way, and/or 1 boosts these stats and 2 boosts those stats, so player A would have to choose which stats they want to boost, instead of constantly +1-upping the tier before, making it obsolete and pointless to put effort into acquiring.

WoW's tier system in particular is the worst system of progression I've ever experienced.   I am so disgusted everytime I hear my now stale-WoW friends say to me "so dude, you should come back to WoW.  They are about to launch the next Tier/Arena season and whoooooaaa!  So much stronger than the season/tier before!!!" ....    as if that's "all that was missing" that made me leave.   Not enough tiers of gear.  *yoink motion..*

Makes me wonder why anyone bothers going for any gear at all when 1-3 months after acquiring all the pieces sought after, they are made obsolete by development, and the character's performance and competitive ability go down the toilet until they replace everything.... again...

  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3250

11/09/11 1:49:53 PM#16

Totally agree.  Blizz did have it right in a way, with particle effects.  Lower gear was plain, later was more spectacular, then reset on next expansion.  That + GW1 model is perfect.   Also agree about horizontal progression, especially now I have experienced GW and Eve.

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  teakbois

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/06/06
Posts: 2190

11/09/11 2:49:42 PM#17

This is something I would never dream of using if its rolled out the way they planned.  Im all for challenge modes, but timed runs?  Really?  This is all going to be about optimal class configuration and very, very little about skill.  Not to mention, timed runs arent fun, and its an artificial challenge.  Put in REAL challenges


  User Deleted
11/09/11 2:54:29 PM#18

Here is the problem Blizz would have with horizontal progression.... they can't release content fast enough.  The only reason people run the same raid for the umpteenth time is for those last few upgrades they are looking for.  If people would only run the dungeons for fun or the challenge of it (which should be the case in the first place), they would maybe complete it two or three times unless there was some incredibly awesome looking gear....  which hasn't been the case for a while.  The brilliant artists that brough us the Judgement and Nemesis armor sets back in Classic are no longer with Blizzard from what I understand, and most of the gear looks whack.




 




I mean, if the new gear actually looked awesome, why would they need the transmog system?  Oh, and if gear wasn't a deciding factor and Blizzard could actually balance PvP, what excuse could they use to not release a new class with each expansion?




 




Yeah.....





 

  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1829

11/09/11 3:02:16 PM#19

It seems fun till you realize healers cant even take a mana break, or a hunter start chain pulling time after time and you as a tank need to grab mobs like a retard.

 

Good fun for tanks and healers...not

 

The community is rotten as it is now this will make it many times worse.

How can you relax when you get home from work and grab a coke and dive into a dungeon when some people keep screaming GOGOGOG MAN FFS HURRY GOGOGOGGO PULL NOAW IDIOT !!!!!

The agony of the random dungeon still shiver down my spine and the worse part is that 80% of the groups have those people.

 

GJ Blizzard :P

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  leojreimroc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/09
Posts: 369

11/09/11 4:55:38 PM#20

Originally posted by Mothanos

It seems fun till you realize healers cant even take a mana break, or a hunter start chain pulling time after time and you as a tank need to grab mobs like a retard.


 


Good fun for tanks and healers...not


 


The community is rotten as it is now this will make it many times worse.


How can you relax when you get home from work and grab a coke and dive into a dungeon when some people keep screaming GOGOGOG MAN FFS HURRY GOGOGOGGO PULL NOAW IDIOT !!!!!


The agony of the random dungeon still shiver down my spine and the worse part is that 80% of the groups have those people.


 


GJ Blizzard :P



 


I'm pretty sure that groups that are trying for timed runs will all know that they are doing a timed run, the tank and healer included.  They will know that they need to go fast.


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