a pvp server

Cheers Lord.B

great post.

Though I do have a soft-spot for my dear friend Pony, I must take sides against him!

I know Pony is just posting his wishful thinking but I would agree in principle with Lord.B that there simply are systems in MMORPGs that do not work well together.

Fire and Ice kind of thing.

All MMORPGs, all the good ones anyway, rely on a delicate balance of systems.

Kind of like the butterfly effect - you make a change to one system and the effects ripple outwards and nearly everything is effected.

You could make a case that changing the stats on one item can ruin an entire server economy etc.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

*BOLD ITALIC CAPITAL SNIPAGE*

The attitude that will take us to Mars some day in the future is very much alive with Arenanet, but you want that missile to go to both mars and Venus.... thats not going to happen.....

 

You can't make Hot dogs and burgers from the same ingredients.....  Creating great burgers takes a whole different production methode then creating the best hot dogs....

 

A great open PvP game is just something totally different then an Awesome PvE game combined with one of the most awesome PvP things ever created (RvR)

 

I totally agree that public events would work just or maybe even better when combined with Pvp in a PvP game... where people from 5 factions could join sides with NPC's allmost everywhere....  But thats not this game.... the lore and game mechanics in the open PvE world are totally written for the 5 factions/races to work together against NPC threads...

Rewriting that would be the same workload as creating 2 totally different games, with the way this game works just glueing on another name on a server does not work...  If there had been different PvE factions from the go on a single server, it would have been a different thing... but for GW2 its just impossible to get open PvP working from the start or ever in this part of the world...

 

 

They could however when they wanted release a seccond expansion with a new continent as big as the orriginal game world where players needed to choose out of 3 or 5 factions as soon as they arive in that world and have PvP build intoo all these dynamic events...  But even that i doubt will ever happen...

 

Needles to say i am sure that as soon as GW2 dynamic events become a huge succes another company will build a sandbox game around this system with several PvP factions that fight eachother in all these events...

 

 

But in this game.......i dont forsee any open world PvP

Some great ideas that and I sure hope they'll read them / implement them someday, maybe in another game. But I wasn't really asking for all those bells and whistles. Just for having to watch my back when I engage a skycraper sized dragon and thus experience more urgency, excitement and thrill

_{.... and occasionaly checking if others are watching their own backs and provide them with thrills myself ^_^).}

edit: *accidentily bites Spock in his neck*

As much as I love the thought of a PvP server... most of the zones and encounters and events I've witnessed thus far would be "devalued" by open PvP. I'm fine with what they are giving us, assuming the WvWvW is large enough. I don't mean "Huge" I mean "Titanic".

In lieu of the wait and see aspect of my aforementioned statement there are two things I think are realistic to implement that I doubt will be present.

A. Kithicor Forest style zones: Basically places that are extremely dangerous for players to travel through during certain times of the day. Places that give you the same rush open world PvP can give you by having monsters attempt to ambush you, or giving you the "Fel Reaver" feeling from WoW. I want/need more of this in my MMORPG games, because it's one of the only things I've yet to get enough of. Oh and... it doesn't work if the monster are push-overs, and it certainly doesn't work if they can two shot you. Make them hard, yet fightable - much like a skilled PvP opponent.

B. Alternate Storyline Foes: Who wouldn't love the thought of... going through the story - getting close to Zhaitan, when someone trips over a random switch and accidentally unlocks some random Demon Lord Crazy Jerk that suddenly starts to send in additional Demon monsters at what were previously benign events. Everyone on the entire shard experiences the problem yet only a few people will encounter the villain. It's kind of a rare encounter/secret boss/world event type thing. I just love it when unexpected baddies roll out - there really aren't any in MMOs historically.

But yeah ^ that stuff.

1) Less loading screens & instanced story, more open world

2) Collision / Body blocking & interrupt skills like GW1 had

3) Guild halls / player housing with lots of customization

edit:

Oh, and: Dialogue choices & multiplayer dialogues.

You know, like that other game has.

Originally posted by Foomerang

I'd like to see a point to this game that doesn't involve esport mentality like server pride or blanket answers like its for fun bro. And the whole dragons taking over the world and we gotta band together thing is such a tired premise. Single player rpg aspect? That doesn't cut it for me for an mmorpg (and yes swtor I'm looking at you too).

I am fully aware that I will get flamed for this, or people thinking I'm some sort of sad pathetic sack, or pity me for being ignorant or whatever. I know I'm probably the only one that feels this way about GW2. I'm not bashing anyone. I respect your opinions that are all probably completely opposite from me as far as this game.

This game just looks like it has an identity crisis. Personal story, dynamic events, esport pvp all existing in their own separate bubbles functioning completely independent from each other. I don't get it. It just seems pointless and shallow.

Well, you need to look at Guild Wars' history. GW1 had an instanced coop campaign with lots of story and cutscenes, and after that, it was all about competitive arena PvP. GW2 keeps those elements and adds a real open mmo world with dynamic events, both for PvE and PvP.

But in some ways, i actually agree with you. The lore connection between PvE and competitive PvP was almost non-existent in GW1. It seems Anet didn't bother to improve that with GW2. The instanced personal story elements imo don't mesh well with the new dynamic events, either. It's indeed like several game modes that function independently from each other. The lack of integration and consistency is kinda immersion-breaking imo. Well, at least it looks like each game mode will be pretty awesome for what it is xP

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

 

The lack of integration and consistency is kinda immersion-breaking imo. 

It "could be" immersion breaking if you could verify the "lack of integration and consistency" having played GW2 

or maybe you have a crystal ball. 

 I'd save words like 'immersion' till you have immersed yourself in the game.

Seasons.

I know EQ2 had the Pizza Hut button, but lets expand on it.  KFC, BK, McD, El Pollo Loco, Chipotles [add your favorite here] Button!

Originally posted by uohaloran

Seasons.

I think this is one of those things that developers shy away from because it would take a considerable amount of work, and the payfoff for them is not obvious... but the added immersion would be AMAZING.

Originally posted by VowOfSilence

Originally posted by Foomerang

I'd like to see a point to this game that doesn't involve esport mentality like server pride or blanket answers like its for fun bro. And the whole dragons taking over the world and we gotta band together thing is such a tired premise. Single player rpg aspect? That doesn't cut it for me for an mmorpg (and yes swtor I'm looking at you too).

I am fully aware that I will get flamed for this, or people thinking I'm some sort of sad pathetic sack, or pity me for being ignorant or whatever. I know I'm probably the only one that feels this way about GW2. I'm not bashing anyone. I respect your opinions that are all probably completely opposite from me as far as this game.

This game just looks like it has an identity crisis. Personal story, dynamic events, esport pvp all existing in their own separate bubbles functioning completely independent from each other. I don't get it. It just seems pointless and shallow.

Well, you need to look at Guild Wars' history. GW1 had an instanced coop campaign with lots of story and cutscenes, and after that, it was all about competitive arena PvP. GW2 keeps those elements and adds a real open mmo world with dynamic events, both for PvE and PvP.

But in some ways, i actually agree with you. The lore connection between PvE and competitive PvP was almost non-existent in GW1. It seems Anet didn't bother to improve that with GW2. The instanced personal story elements imo don't mesh well with the new dynamic events, either. It's indeed like several game modes that function independently from each other. The lack of integration and consistency is kinda immersion-breaking imo. Well, at least it looks like each game mode will be pretty awesome for what it is xP

While the personal story and dynamic events are two totally separate things gameplay wise, I think the design is for them to compliment one another.   I swear at one point I remember reading/hearing about how, for instance, early on in the human areas bandits are a major threat and that the personal story explores the motivation for why the bandits are attacking.  I can't find a link to that, but it does make sense, especially how the first part of the human noble story has a fellow noble being kidnapped by bandits.

As far as the disconnection between PVE and PVP goes, I agree with you that the lore doesn't support it very well, but I think they're painted into a corner by a desire to have the gameplay come first. 

In PVE, they want to make a social game.  They want you to never be upset to see another player.  They want to make it as griefless as possible.  They want you to be able to play with your friends, regardless of race.

With PVP, they want it to be 3-faction.  They want it to be server vs server vs server because it solves the problem of population imbalances (it also increases the populations by having one massive fight instead of 3 smaller fights).

These goals are just about completely incompatible, so they have to separate them and put the PVP off in the alternate reality "mists".  If anything, I think making that leap makes the structured PVP more plausible, because now we're refighting historical battles.

For what it's worth, I think I like the separation of PVE and world PVP.  I don't know if all the NPCs in world PVP will be aligned with a particular faction, but I like the difference in approach.  In PVP, it's a warzone, it's attacking your caravan and your trying to stop me.  In PVE, it's a common enemy.  Bandits are poisoning a well, let's all try and stop it, not slit each other's throats while our backs and turned.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

1. Non-Instanced, Old School explorable dungeons such as the Wright Burrows in DAoC or Black Death Catacombs of Asherons Call.  I feel that good old "non-linear" explorable dungeons that are open for all add a great sense of depth, intrigue, and mystery to a massively multiplayer game and I miss that style of content greatly.

The other is:

2. Player Housing-  the personal story zone is an awesome idea but I think it can be expanded upon by including a personal house/mansion/villa,  Some of the best times I had in Asheron's Call is decorating my house and having an awesome atmosphere that was designed by me to kick back and call home.  It adds alot of depth and individual freedom that isnt often seen in todays modern themepark MMO.

1. It is kinda already in the game. Underground and underwater zones exists already in the open world. They are not so much the "open dungeons" we seen in DaoC and EQ but in some ways more interesting.

2. ANET have announced that this feature is in the work but wont be in at launch. So it will be implemented, just not from the start, probably with the first expansion. Same thing goes for guildhouses.

Scalability.  User-selectable difficulty.  Rewards commensurate with additional risk voluntarily taken.  Actual danger, from "omgezmode" clear up to "You're insane and a masochist."

The death of static mob placement and set pathwalkers, EQ-era hardcoded instance design.  Improved AI.

In all honesty, customization of end gear, something/anything. (Unless of course I missed something...which of course is possible.)

---

Originally posted by Icewhite
Scalability.  User-selectable difficulty.  Rewards commensurate with additional risk voluntarily taken.  Actual danger, from "omgezmode" clear up to "You're insane and a masochist."
The death of static mob placement and set pathwalkers, EQ-era hardcoded instance design.  Improved AI.

---

Not to butt-in ;) but like COH scalability. That is pure awesomeness. :)

Originally posted by czekoskwigel

Originally posted by uohaloran

Seasons.

I think this is one of those things that developers shy away from because it would take a considerable amount of work, and the payfoff for them is not obvious... but the added immersion would be AMAZING.

Wonder if they will do day and night...anyone know?

Originally posted by caremuchless

Originally posted by czekoskwigel

Originally posted by uohaloran

Seasons.

I think this is one of those things that developers shy away from because it would take a considerable amount of work, and the payfoff for them is not obvious... but the added immersion would be AMAZING.

Wonder if they will do day and night...anyone know?

 

This one should be much easier to implement, and great for immersion.  Especially if they give critters and mobs the ability to behave differently depending on the time of day.  And in the case of this game, different dynamic events depending on the hour would be sweet.

Originally posted by czekoskwigel

Originally posted by caremuchless

Originally posted by czekoskwigel

Originally posted by uohaloran

Seasons.

I think this is one of those things that developers shy away from because it would take a considerable amount of work, and the payfoff for them is not obvious... but the added immersion would be AMAZING.

Wonder if they will do day and night...anyone know?

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzEqJAg8460&feature=player_detailpage#t=40s

edit: a better answer

Are they going to include a day/night cycle?

Yes. The cycle will be faster than real time. Events and monster spawning will change based on the time of day. Centaurs might attack a camp at dawn, and ghosts haunting an ancient battlefield might only be visible at night. Currently, the cycle lasts 2 hours with 80 minutes of day and 40 minutes of night, but this is subject to change before release. (no citation because the original is in French)

This one should be much easier to implement, and great for immersion.  Especially if they give critters and mobs the ability to behave differently depending on the time of day.  And in the case of this game, different dynamic events depending on the hour would be sweet.

From http://mmorpgarea.com/answers-your-dynamic-event-questions-2-guild-wars-2/

Events do not necessarily follow a fixed schedule, and may only trigger if certain conditions are met - for example, if a snow storm strikes an area, or if night falls on a graveyard.

Nice catch Cali

I would love to see some open dungeons become popular again, and non-instanced housing, but do it like Vanguard where you have many areas in the world, for housing, that have nice scenery, and price is based on location etc...Then you don't have housing interfer with the game...I just don't like instanced housing...If someone could bring UOs housing to a modern 3d game, that would be crazy.

I also would like a game that would create open world dungeons that appeared randomly in the world, and when someone kills the boss, it would collapse, and be a one time thing....The loot would be randomly generated, same as monsters, boss, etc...Then of course a world big enough that it would add to exploring...To find these things.