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Originally posted by VirusDancer

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Originally posted by waynejr2

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Originally posted by Aquazen

I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

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No.

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There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.
Why do you say no?

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A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.

Why should you get a discount ordering online?

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by VirusDancer

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Originally posted by waynejr2

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Originally posted by Aquazen

I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

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No.

---

There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.
Why do you say no?

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Not that I'm in either camp but....

 

 

A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.

 

Why should you get a discount ordering online?

well the idea with paying less for a digital version is that you are cutting out the cost of making the box, disk, and anything else that comes with it.  buying a bixed version online i could see no real reason to pay less, but seems if there are no material costs from a digital download then it should be less

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Originally posted by gaou

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Originally posted by popinjay
 

Not that I'm in either camp but....
 
 

A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.
 
Why should you get a discount ordering online?

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well the idea with paying less for a digital version is that you are cutting out the cost of making the box, disk, and anything else that comes with it.  buying a bixed version online i could see no real reason to pay less, but seems if there are no material costs from a digital download then it should be less

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The reason they charge you the same as a box is because when they ship it as a box, they get half or sometimes less than the actual cost of the game. They have to sell a $50 box to Walmart for $25 so Walmart can sell it for $50.

So the company still has to pay for the box costs regardless, even though the online person isn't using it.

If they sold the game on their site for $25, then Walmart would squawk because a lot of people would just buy it there and Walmart would be losing sales probably.

Originally posted by gaou

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by VirusDancer

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Originally posted by waynejr2

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Originally posted by Aquazen

I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

---

No.

---

There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.
Why do you say no?

---

Not that I'm in either camp but....

 

 

A hamburger ordered through a drive-thru costs the same as if you walked inside. You don't get a discount because you walked 50 feet inside the store and carried it outside yourself.

 

Why should you get a discount ordering online?

well the idea with paying less for a digital version is that you are cutting out the cost of making the box, disk, and anything else that comes with it.  buying a bixed version online i could see no real reason to pay less, but seems if there are no material costs from a digital download then it should be less

To elaborate:

The cost of the application itself...is the same.  But it is not just the cost of the application.

Digital copy - there is no physical media, no physical packaging.  There is no physical warehousing.  There is no physical distribution.  With none of that involved, there are no employees that get paid a wage nor benefits.  There is no buying back any unsold copies of the game.  There is no processing returns for defective media, etc.  The list goes on and on...

The Digital Copy...does not involve any of those costs.  The Physical Copy does.

There is X profit on the Physical Copy.

If X was maintained for the Digital Copy, then the cost of the Digital Copy would be much less.

It is not.  X is not maintained.  X is substantially more on the Digital Copy than the Physical Copy when one takes into account the number of copies sold.

And to some, it goes beyond this.  What?  In what way?

Well, as mentioned - you do not have the labor costs there.  This means you're not hiring and you've likely laid off people.  Not only with your company, but with the company you would have used for warehousing and the company you would have used for distribution... it trickles on.

Digital Copies are bad for the economy... because all of those people without jobs, have no money to spend in the economy.

In the end, you're simply left with that game publisher with their increased profits...

...just a way that some might look at it - some only part of the way and some beyond even what I stated here.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Aquazen

I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

No.

There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

Why do you say no?

Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I still remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. (The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.)

Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People overlook this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bitching about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for, to support their business.

I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Aquazen

I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

No.

There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

Why do you say no?

Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I stil remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.

Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People over look this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bicthing about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for to support their business.

I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

I'd tend to disagree on this.  Look at how many units were sold with that $50 then and how many units are sold now for that $50...

...unless I'm reading what you're saying wrong.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Aquazen

I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

No.

There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

Why do you say no?

Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I stil remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.

Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People over look this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bicthing about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for to support their business.

I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

I'd tend to disagree on this.  Look at how many units were sold with that $50 then and how many units are sold now for that $50...

...unless I'm reading what you're saying wrong.

Again for some perspective in most markets when the market grows they charge more, as they know those who have grown to love that market will pay it.

I have no issue with digital downloads, I do have a problem  with sub fees+expansions+dlc+cash shops. Bioware/Ea will be milking every penny out of their fanbase and the sad thing is that the game isn't even worthy of all that money spending, no mmo is for that matter. 

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Originally posted by SaintViktor
I have no issue with digital downloads, I do have a problem  with sub fees+expansions+dlc+cash shops. Bioware/Ea will be milking every penny out of their fanbase and the sad thing is that the game isn't even worthy of all that money spending, no mmo is for that matter. 

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The worthy portion would appear to be your personal opinion of what's value to you, but plenty of fans of their particular games seem to think it is, which is why the industry keeps making more of them.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by VirusDancer

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Aquazen

I am all for digital downloads, but shouldn't they be a little cheaper on average compared to box sales?

No.

There have been many reasons given for why they should be...in several threads.

Why do you say no?

Whether it should or shouldn't really isn't the issue. There's a much larger factor here, inflation. PC Games development is one of the few industries that have not followed this business trend over the last 20 years. I stil remember my mother bicthin' about $50 for one game? When I was the age of 12. Most PC games still retail for around the same price (or less), and I'll be 33 in a week. The console market is a different story as they usually run around $10 more today.

Hell the PC gaming market has been shrinking in price over the last few years when it comes to hardware. People over look this constantly when arguing over this stuff.

If we want to look further we can look at the vilified F2P market rising. Look at the amount of game you can play for free compared to the single player or console world, neither of those markets has anything like that.

I look at what you get for free in a game like AOC, CO, COH, FE, LOTRO, etc.. and compare that to what people pay 60 dollars (in some cases monthly) for in the single player world. I just can't help but /facepalm when I see people bicthing about the $2.00 here or $6.00 to $10.00 there they ask for to support their business.

I'd say this market has lost sight of reality in a lot of cases, there's no perspective.

I'd tend to disagree on this.  Look at how many units were sold with that $50 then and how many units are sold now for that $50...

...unless I'm reading what you're saying wrong.

Again for some perspective in most markets when the market grows they charge more, as they know those who have grown to love that market will pay it.

 

While on one hand you do have the ability to charge more because there will be demand - you also have the psychological draw in not charging more...while still selling a massive quantity of units and making a greater profit that you did previously.  Usually it is a case of both... the price will go up slowly.  Games actually do cost more now than they did 10 years ago, 20 years ago.  Getting into a discussion of value, one might also argue they offer less (which is where I typically go off on my infamous grocery store analogy)...

Sky is falling again? Could we let it stay up for once? It always makes such a mess.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

 

While on one hand you do have the ability to charge more because there will be demand - you also have the psychological draw in not charging more...while still selling a massive quantity of units and making a greater profit that you did previously.  Usually it is a case of both... the price will go up slowly.  Games actually do cost more now than they did 10 years ago, 20 years ago.  Getting into a discussion of value, one might also argue they offer less (which is where I typically go off on my infamous grocery store analogy)...

Hmm , this is going ino the area of subjectivity now though, as whether games offer more today is a personal opinion, more-so than a fact we can gauge. While you may have felt systems in games were deeper back then, IMO in some cases they were. The problem is more money is put into games today, far more actually. Far more devs typically work on a single game as well. Really this topic boils down to what you want to see in a game, rather than whether you get more in a game today.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by VirusDancer

 

While on one hand you do have the ability to charge more because there will be demand - you also have the psychological draw in not charging more...while still selling a massive quantity of units and making a greater profit that you did previously.  Usually it is a case of both... the price will go up slowly.  Games actually do cost more now than they did 10 years ago, 20 years ago.  Getting into a discussion of value, one might also argue they offer less (which is where I typically go off on my infamous grocery store analogy)...

Hmm , this going ino the area of subjectivity now though, as whether games offer more today is a personal opinion, more-so than a fact we can gauge. While you may have felt systems in games were deeper back then, IMO in some cases they were. The problem is more money is put into games today, far more actually. Far more devs typically work on a single game as well. Really this topic boils down to what you want to see in a game, rather than whether you get more in a game today.

But the increased payroll for the devs - is going to be covered by the increased revenue from the number of units sold.  Or it will not be, and the game will go under or have to be bailed out.

So when looking at the costs of the digital copy... it is still much less than a physical copy.

The profit on a digital copy... is much more than a physical copy.

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Originally posted by VirusDancer

So when looking at the costs of the digital copy... it is still much less than a physical copy.
The profit on a digital copy... is much more than a physical copy.

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The reason they charge the same price for both is because no third-party retailer would touch it if the site sold it for half what they sell it.

The company takes a hit on the store boxes because that's physical advertising to a broader audience that they can't get on a dinky website... even if the website is EA, SoE or some other huge company.

You guys keep talking in terms of what cardboard costs but that's not why they sell the boxes cheaper than the websites. They sell them cheaper to stores because they want shelf-prominence for foot traffic.

Boxes cost more because it's actually advertising space.

Originally posted by VirusDancer

 

But the increased payroll for the devs - is going to be covered by the increased revenue from the number of units sold.  Or it will not be, and the game will go under or have to be bailed out.

So when looking at the costs of the digital copy... it is still much less than a physical copy.

The profit on a digital copy... is much more than a physical copy.

Maybe so, I just hold the opinion that before we start actually evaluating this issue gamers have to gain some perspective in their views of cost, as well as how markets generally work. They also need to realize it could be far worse.

Should a digital copy be cheaper? Yes, it's simply logical that the cost has dropped. However, keep in mind I'm saying this based on my own habits. What does the box matter? I keep my PC games in a disc binder, I couldn't tell you where the last box I bought is now, but it has landfill in its name. Point being, who factors in the cost of the box when actually buying a game? Are we paying extra for garbage? No, we're paying the price to play the game.

Originally posted by Eliandal

Originally posted by MMOman101

I have not bought a game published, produced or developed by EA in over a year.  I wigh more gamers would just stop buying games from certain companies.

  A little ridiculous don't you think?  So, we all gang up and boycott?  You pick EA, I pick NC, someone else picks SE and another picks SOE - suddenly nothing selling because nothing is being produced.  You can make your choices for yourself, yes.  Wishing that a company like Bioware, or Funcom go out of business because you don't like the parent?  Yeah

Pick whomever you want.  You won't follow through because you're a gamer and thus, are a ruled by self-gratification.  You can't say no.  That's how EA gets away with screwing over developers and customers without so much as a hiccup in their sales.  Gamers don't care what obscenities EA might be guilty of -- we just want another hit off that crackpipe and we really don't care where it's been.

Gamers: all addiction, no conviction.

Originally posted by popinjay

"Reason for Concern, EA's Q2 reports"... *audience yawns**

 

"In other news...

 

Battlefield 3 Breaks EA Records With 5M Sold Week One

 

 

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Electronic Arts' multiplayer-focused military shooter Battlefield 3 was purchased by 5 million consumers worldwide in its first week on the market, according to company estimates.

This would put the game's sell-through at roughly half of the 10 million copies shipped during the period, a record day-one shipment for the company.

The 5 million sold also represents a new record for the company, which today called Battlefield 3 "the fastest-selling game in EA's history."

As EA COO Peter Moore recently revealed, the 10 million copies shipped was roughly double that of last year's Medal of Honor, EA's other current first-person-shooter franchise.

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So should we discuss the fact EA can not keep the servers for BF 3 up and running, that game codes are not working, that accounts are getting lost?

Oh but according to EA you shouldnt let the fact they can not stabilize thier server farms deter you from buying thier games especially SWTOR.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Purutzil

There is a reason why gamers (particularly those in the industry) tend to look at EA in disgust. Its no question they want profit and pretty much step over everyone to make that profit. I seriously hope EA as a company fails and falls into an endless pit. Its disgusting to think a company like them exists and pretty much want to take over the gaming industry for the sole purpose of making mass profits with little concern over quality.

if there was no quality there would be no profit, that's the bottomline. Each studio owned by EA tries to offer quality titles, thinking otherwise is illogical. These studios depend on quality to survive, as soon as the quality drops the studio is disolved. Which these studios live with that risk day in and day out, more so than companies not ownd by publishers such as this.

Crap doesn't sell just look at MOH's last outing, or certain Madden or NBA titles. Profit is made through excellent products and customer trust.

Obviously you did not read any of the reports or listen to the conference call, EA owns and plans to guy bioware, they are already cutting staff, and plan to outsource it's future project productions.

The business model clearly states to barebones the development companies they aquire and ship the labor overseas for less money.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by SaintViktor
I have no issue with digital downloads, I do have a problem  with sub fees+expansions+dlc+cash shops. Bioware/Ea will be milking every penny out of their fanbase and the sad thing is that the game isn't even worthy of all that money spending, no mmo is for that matter. 

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What game doesn't "milk" it's fanbase?

 

 

The worthy portion would appear to be your personal opinion of what's value to you, but plenty of fans of their particular games seem to think it is, which is why the industry keeps making more of them.

 

 

 

LOL did the math recently on what my husband spent on Everquest over the last 15 years..  with an expansion every year, and the cash shop and the annual subs, he is close to $5000 just on Everquest.

LOL just thought about something else, that doesnt even count the 5 fanfaires we've gone to.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

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Originally posted by SaintViktor
I have no issue with digital downloads, I do have a problem  with sub fees+expansions+dlc+cash shops. Bioware/Ea will be milking every penny out of their fanbase and the sad thing is that the game isn't even worthy of all that money spending, no mmo is for that matter. 

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What game doesn't "milk" it's fanbase? The worthy portion would appear to be your personal opinion of what's value to you, but plenty of fans of their particular games seem to think it is, which is why the industry keeps making more of them.

The point is different kinds of fanbase get milked differently. I'm only talking about mmorpgs here and these two quotes:

"EA's says their facebook games have taken over the market and are the future of online gaming and they want to make that a huge part of their future moving forward."

EA says DLC's and cash shops are nothing but profit oriented and want to make them more prevalent in the industry so that they can make them the standard in all their games."

shows what fanbase they are aiming to milk and how. People who preferred the older-style mmorpgs need to learn to program (or model, animate, texture, whatever).

edit: i'm not against being milked in exchange for what i want. i'm saying the games companies have found a different and bigger cow that can be milked for less effort.