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World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Poll should Ghostcrawler be sacked over MOP ?

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189 posts found
  Consequence

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/04
Posts: 358

11/06/11 1:12:51 AM#141

I havent played Wow in about 5 1/2 years. But back then, the playerbase was actively asking for Pandas whinning about sticking to the "warcraft lore."

It was all over the forums.

Kinda hard  to blame Bliz now. Go hunt down the vocal minority forums nerds.

 

 

  Omali

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1100

11/06/11 1:18:09 AM#142

Oh I'll kill him. I'll kill him dead. Like with, with a, rock or something. Like a, like a stone. 

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

11/06/11 3:35:54 PM#143
Originally posted by paroxysm

As said before, in some hybrids, tiers are for one spec almost exclusively.  When all three choices are worse than a second choice in another tier, it's a bad design. 

I don't really see your point, there are very few teirs in a single class that are directly comparable.

I can't tell if your missing the point or just being obtuse. The purpose isn't to give players complete freedom of choice, Wow has never been about or had that at any point. Sure if the past you could spend your points more freely but most players didn't use specs like that. Honestly I don't know why you people keep bring up "hybrids" because they haven't exsisted since Wrath and quite frankly neither Blizzard or the majority of the player base care.

The idea with this system is that you have your Spec choice, which includes all the "cookie cutter" stuff automatically. Then you have a set of 6 choices, each with a certain theme, that allows you to make adjustments to how your character plays. Now I don't play every class but I don't recall seeing any of the teirs that didn't make a noticeable change, nor do I recall seeing any talents that were only useful to a single spec.

To say choosing utility is to underperform is your specfic role is idiotic because you will have everything you need for that from your spec choice. None of the talents will be required, you choose which you perfer in a similar sense to Glyphs.

  User Deleted
11/07/11 12:40:55 AM#144
Originally posted by Teh_Axi
Originally posted by paroxysm

As said before, in some hybrids, tiers are for one spec almost exclusively.  When all three choices are worse than a second choice in another tier, it's a bad design. 

I don't really see your point, there are very few teirs in a single class that are directly comparable.

I can't tell if your missing the point or just being obtuse. The purpose isn't to give players complete freedom of choice, Wow has never been about or had that at any point. Sure if the past you could spend your points more freely but most players didn't use specs like that. Honestly I don't know why you people keep bring up "hybrids" because they haven't exsisted since Wrath and quite frankly neither Blizzard or the majority of the player base care.

The idea with this system is that you have your Spec choice, which includes all the "cookie cutter" stuff automatically. Then you have a set of 6 choices, each with a certain theme, that allows you to make adjustments to how your character plays. Now I don't play every class but I don't recall seeing any of the teirs that didn't make a noticeable change, nor do I recall seeing any talents that were only useful to a single spec.

To say choosing utility is to underperform is your specfic role is idiotic because you will have everything you need for that from your spec choice. None of the talents will be required, you choose which you perfer in a similar sense to Glyphs.

You are not making sense.  You act like Wrath was a long time ago.  Did you not play before Wrath?

 

I'll try to say this one last time in the fewest words for you.

Skill trees have never been about real viable choices.  Even the oldest ones from Vanilla and TBC.  That said, the new systems offer no more choice.  They just offer even less choice in a new way.  So, again for another expansion, they are not improving.

Look again at some of the "hybrid" new systems (ones with multiple roles/ tank/heal/dps).  There are "tiers" with multiple talents that are better for the same spec.  In those situations a second choice from a different tier is the better option.

Glyphs are, for the most part, just as cookie cutter as specs.  Certain ones are a superior to others of the same kind for your role.  The lowest glyphs, with the least impact, offer little choice.  But, they sometimes offer choice.  They allow those choices because of how low the impact of them is.

I said choosing utility is to underperform because I was comparing utility to essential.  By that I mean the best weighted talent.  Which the new system will have.  Ergo, the cookie cutter spec.  To choose utility over that is to underperform at your role.  To gain something you like but benefits you less.

Before and up to the start of Wrath, there was more choice.  Not a lot, but more.  Cata was when the real prune came and this expansion is just giving that a new look with even less choices to make.

  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1832

11/07/11 1:24:38 AM#145

WoW has lots of problems where blizzard needs to step in and fix things.

 

Faction inbalance

Server population

WoW older races look old compared to Gobo's / Worgen and even Dranei / Bloodelf's

To many class changes and nerf's

To many talent changes and nerf

Each class is getting more of the same stuff

Healers are almost the same - big heal / medium heal / small heal

 

Blizzard should focus on these things before pressing another expansion out.

Developer team doesnt look or ask question on Europeans or doesnt even communicate with us -_-

 

The biggest problem is Ghostcrawler, and let me give you 1 example of his bias.

 

Since cataclysm the feral druid and warrior class have gotten some key ability's nerfed real hard, he himself plays a frostmage wich is so retardedly overpowerd and people begged for balance.

1 Frost Mage can keep so many people frozen and cc'd that you gotte wonder why this aint nerfed hard....

When doing arena your looking at crowd control periods of 30 to 40 seconds in a row .

Evry class has 1 interupt or more and add crowd control to their arsenal and you can see how frustrating it can be to do some pvp.

The vicious circle of rerolling wich strategy was implemented from launch is still the same. (FotM)

Armor sets are uninsprired compared to those in Vanila and TBC.

 

 

I can go on and on but i will save you the cheese that go with the whine :)

 

 

Seeing MoP is being developd  wich has very little lore and lots of players disliking panda's as a playeble race aint good enough also.

Its a 50/50 love or hate it wich might hold a bad sign for Blizzard new Xpac.

Like the DK in WotLK wich was grossly OP so will the Monk be.

The vicious circle of rerolling wich strategy was implemented from launch is still the same.

Make people reroll and invest more time in wow.

 

 

This is my personal vieuw after playing wow for 6/7 years and by no means iam right about all my points or comments.

 

I would have expected a massive expansion that blow away 80% of the fans and playerbase, but MoP is not doing that.

It divides the playerbase into half and make the game even 1 step easier yet again.

The dumbing down the game for 8 year old kids is asking alot of the players who like some uniqueness in talents and playstyle.

This is gone for a big part and in MoP evry1 will have the same spec or playstyle.

Add the Pokemon stuff and your looking at a game who already has the highest young audiance of any mmo.

 

Most of these kids do nothing bad bashing other players in battlegrounds or dungeons.

Its no fun to get geared and these kids make it so much worse and try to bash you into the ground or vote a kick the second it can be done.

 

WoW's community has died a long time ago and what is left is emptyness, the mail me the epics in the mailbox people that realy dislike working hard for it.

 

Imagen Panda's and Pokemon implemented soon :) 

It will attract young audiance for sure.

Older players who dislike panda's and pokemon will walk away.

 

Add SWtor / GW2 and perhaps in a year Archage and you see what ghostcrawler has caused.

WoW is losing ground with that man in the lead.

Jeff Kapplan did a much better job in that regard.

 

Time will tell, but man WoW is not building on their succes , they have lost direction and vision and maybe they are panicking whit what is on the horizon ?

 

Time will tell ^^

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  User Deleted
11/07/11 1:42:50 AM#146
Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Love it or hate it the facts are Mists of Pandaria has caused a huge amount of negativity on the internet . In the event the expansion underperforms in terms of units sold should Greg Street be fired from his job as lead systems designer of World of Warcraft .

No, he is making blizzard a lot of money.  The game doesnt revolve around real MMO players anymore its now a family game, the kids will cherish the panda thing so will the girl gamers, another market they have tapped into.  Blizzard are thinking outside the box.

  Xstatic912

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/11
Posts: 367

11/07/11 1:59:37 AM#147
Quote:

No, he is making blizzard a lot of money.  The game doesnt revolve around real MMO players anymore its now a family game, the kids will cherish the panda thing so will the girl gamers, another market they have tapped into.  Blizzard are thinking outside the box.

Thats one of the smartest comments ever, reguarding MOP.. People fail to see that WoW has really gotten too big for Blizz and of course they don't mind becuase it brings the doe in.. Blizz knows that WoW won't ever retain a high player base number but they sure as hell don't want that number to dwindle too fast, so in doing so try to open the game up to other type of players.

Blizz isn't really forcing anyone to buy the xpac or have to play the panda race. But if it brings in 100k New player to WoW, its all good..

I personally don't find the panda thing a big deal... Hell people were asking Naga's to be a playable race, so blizz quell that part by letting you could control them in a Cata quest line..  Hell Taurens are cows and that didn't get a backlash as panda.

 

Also, I think this expansion is like and inter-mission / hold over for blizz. seeing there is not Major Boss bent on destruction to set out to kill..

 

  Kanubis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 112

11/07/11 2:13:34 AM#148

Why are we firing the Systems Design Lead for the choice of expansion theme again? Has this been explained?

I'd hate to think we were all simple enough that we honestly just picked one of the more public faces of the company and totally misunderstood what role he plays. 

Unless the new talent system angers you that much I suppose....

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 1923

Posts deleted: 12589457

11/07/11 2:44:53 AM#149
Originally posted by namelessbob

Should have been fired long long before MOP honestly. In my opinion he has cost Blizzard a lot more money than he has brought in.

I agree, except that i don't think it's about the money he has cost Blizzard. They still got all the money in the world.

He should have been fired long ago about the reputation he has cost Blizzard. Looking back through the years you barely find an unpopular, at times upsetting and bare of any logic decision made in WoW which doesn't have Idiotcrawlers signature underneath it.

  Kanubis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 112

11/07/11 3:31:09 AM#150
Originally posted by VoIgore
Originally posted by namelessbob

Should have been fired long long before MOP honestly. In my opinion he has cost Blizzard a lot more money than he has brought in.

I agree, except that i don't think it's about the money he has cost Blizzard. They still got all the money in the world.

He should have been fired long ago about the reputation he has cost Blizzard. Looking back through the years you barely find an unpopular, at times upsetting and bare of any logic decision made in WoW which doesn't have Idiotcrawlers signature underneath it.

Do you think it's at all ironic that you should post this in a thread proposing the dimissal of him for the choice of expansion, when that isn't his job or role in the company at all? It's almost like if something bad happens, people just choose the most public figure within the company....

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

11/07/11 6:01:32 AM#151
Originally posted by paroxysm

Glyphs are, for the most part, just as cookie cutter as specs.

 

Glyphs as they are don't really give you many choices at the moment, that is true but its also something they acknowledged at Blizzcon. The reason I mentioned it is because the idea behind them is essentially the same, that is players are given a set of possible options that can be changed somewhat on the fly. 

As I have said already, I don't see the ability to make a bad character as giving the player more choice. All it gives is the freedom to make mistakes, not the freedom to make a viable character. With this new system you can at least have some impact on how you play without giving up your build also being optimal.

Also your still missing the point, the idea behind is each teir is that its a significant decision. You're not supposed to be able to choose all three of the same teir, they have a similar theme because you are only supposed to have one of them.

  Alalala

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/06
Posts: 277

11/07/11 10:02:48 AM#152

In addition to this stupid direction, he's also smug and arrogant and does nice job of pissing off people everytime he posts.  I take comfort that once he and Blizzard decide "to go different directions", his horrible reputation will lock him out of any game studio.

  User Deleted
11/07/11 11:38:49 AM#153
Originally posted by Teh_Axi
Originally posted by paroxysm

Glyphs are, for the most part, just as cookie cutter as specs.

 

Glyphs as they are don't really give you many choices at the moment, that is true but its also something they acknowledged at Blizzcon. The reason I mentioned it is because the idea behind them is essentially the same, that is players are given a set of possible options that can be changed somewhat on the fly. 

As I have said already, I don't see the ability to make a bad character as giving the player more choice. All it gives is the freedom to make mistakes, not the freedom to make a viable character. With this new system you can at least have some impact on how you play without giving up your build also being optimal.

Also your still missing the point, the idea behind is each teir is that its a significant decision. You're not supposed to be able to choose all three of the same teir, they have a similar theme because you are only supposed to have one of them.

Ok.

They acknowledged it.  Are they changing it?  As I explained, all the major glyphs are cookie cutter as well because of their weighting ranking.  They are NOT adding choice.

A bad character?  That would imply poorly designed specs/builds.  So, if the choice is a bad choice, it's not really a choice to anyone who knows the game at all.  How is that changed?  One talent per tier will be calculated and judged to be best for a spec.  There still is no real choice there because you can only pick ONE.  Picking the lesser one would be just like your saying of making mistakes and allowing a worse character.  They don't allow real choice because it's harder to balance.  That is not changing. 

I did not miss the point.  You missed how it's not an improvement in choice.  It will be just as, if not more, cookie cutter than previous builds.  They are NOT PROGRESSING.  New paint and gloss.

You also are not getting the issues with multi role specs I pointed out, but that is ok.  I'm done with this discussion because you are just talking in circles to avoid what I said without proving how the new system is better/provides more meaningful choice. 

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

11/07/11 12:14:52 PM#154
Originally posted by paroxysm

You also are not getting the issues with multi role specs I pointed out, but that is ok.  I'm done with this discussion because you are just talking in circles to avoid what I said without proving how the new system is better/provides more meaningful choice. 

You haven't actually pointed out anything, you have made sweeping statements with no actual examples. Kinda hard to argue against or even evaluate something with no actual basis. Even then discussing specific talent or even glyph choices is pointless at this early stage.

Bottom line is I believe that this system when its finished will give players more meaningful choice than they've had in the past, while still allowing their characters to be classed as viable. WoW will always be a narrow game when it comes to building a character but this system will give players choices without forcing them to make significant sacrifices.

  User Deleted
11/07/11 1:46:34 PM#155

Kill him now!

  AsatrusFire

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/11
Posts: 34

I miss my BC Warlock!

11/08/11 7:22:48 AM#156

GC should have been sacked with the release of WoLK. The game has been a POS ever since.

  OkhamsRazor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1066

 
OP  11/08/11 7:19:18 PM#157

Well I think with todays news that WoW has lost a further 800,000 subs on top of loses earlier this year I would think MOP really is Ghostcrawlers last stand . The loses coming to WoW will probably have most of the fans defending him here calling for his him to go before too long .

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

11/09/11 3:08:38 AM#158

800k sounds about as much as anyone should have expected with TOR just around the corner.

  OkhamsRazor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1066

 
OP  11/09/11 5:45:31 AM#159
Originally posted by Teh_Axi

800k sounds about as much as anyone should have expected with TOR just around the corner.

 You have to remember these are third quarter losses . This is the second huge consecutive drop . Most likly they include very very few people that have quit over MOP also many people I know are playing out thier subscription or continuing with thier subscription untill TOR comes along .  Some of it may be due to a slump inbetween expansions but the numbers are far to large to really be written off as that .

Think of it like this in a three month period 1 in 12 Warcraft subscribers decided to leave and its not the first drop of its kind this year .  The next quarter could and and most likly will see an even larger drop in players which wont be easy to write off as easily .

If Blizzard lose 800,000 every quarter such loses would be sustainable for a few years but you have to remember the peer pressure/cool aspect amongst younger players once its concidered to be a game on the slide many players it could soon be uncool and they  will look for another game or simply give up mmos for the next cool thing .

The snowball effect has set in and Blizzard need to deal with it sooner or later . MOP I think is a huge mistake so someone will have to answer for it eventually .

 

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2767

11/09/11 6:00:55 AM#160

I'm pretty sure the expanion themes were laid out a very long time ago.  But it's still up to GC to make the most of them and at least retain players.  He's failed miserably.

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