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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

World of Warcraft

World of Warcraft 

General Discussion  » Poll should Ghostcrawler be sacked over MOP ?

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189 posts found
  uohaloran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/05
Posts: 832

10/31/11 7:07:14 PM#101

I'm pretty sure most everything from this expansion was floating around Blizzard's offices before they even hired the guy in 2008.  Axing one dude for something that is probably a collective desicion wont do anything.

  PukeBucket

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/11
Posts: 888

10/31/11 7:09:33 PM#102
Originally posted by Drekker17
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by catlana

I really dislike the MoP dumbed down talent system. You make six talent choices for your character. Because of these types of decisions, I would prefer if Ghostcrawler was not providing direction of WoW.

Yeah, each time I look at the MoP Calc:  http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

...well, I've got a headache from the /facepalm.

I know right, it's like...why do you need a talent calculator now?

Aren't the "we need balanzed!" players delighted?

[Mod Edit]

I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

10/31/11 7:26:05 PM#103
Originally posted by PukeBucket
Originally posted by Drekker17
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by catlana

I really dislike the MoP dumbed down talent system. You make six talent choices for your character. Because of these types of decisions, I would prefer if Ghostcrawler was not providing direction of WoW.

Yeah, each time I look at the MoP Calc:  http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

...well, I've got a headache from the /facepalm.

I know right, it's like...why do you need a talent calculator now?

Aren't the "we need balanzed!" players delighted?

What is really painful with those calcs... is actually looking at them.  I mean, seriously looking at what each point gives you compared to the other two choices.  I built out a quick Warlock... I think one thing did not involve self-healing.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  PukeBucket

Novice Member

Joined: 9/10/11
Posts: 888

10/31/11 7:32:43 PM#104
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by PukeBucket
Originally posted by Drekker17
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by catlana

I really dislike the MoP dumbed down talent system. You make six talent choices for your character. Because of these types of decisions, I would prefer if Ghostcrawler was not providing direction of WoW.

Yeah, each time I look at the MoP Calc:  http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

...well, I've got a headache from the /facepalm.

I know right, it's like...why do you need a talent calculator now?

Aren't the "we need balanzed!" players delighted?

What is really painful with those calcs... is actually looking at them.  I mean, seriously looking at what each point gives you compared to the other two choices.  I built out a quick Warlock... I think one thing did not involve self-healing.

Yeah, I hear ya on that.

I tried to build a pet specific warlock and then a dot focused one and well.. I mean they just made an easy game easier.

Really this had been predicted since 2008 or so, that I saw someone else notice as well.

WoW had a few paths they could have went and now they chose story and content over micro management.

This makes me sad, but then again I've not played WoW since BC. 

What's going to be sad is watching all the games that follow on WoW's heel's do the same.

I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  Kalfer

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 791

10/31/11 7:50:54 PM#105
Originally posted by Slowdoves
Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Love it or hate it the facts are Mists of Pandaria has caused a huge amount of negativity on the internet . In the event the expansion underperforms in terms of units sold should Greg Street be fired from his job as lead systems designer of World of Warcraft .

Only on this site sir, and it's hardly huge. It's nothing more than another reason for folks to WHINE about. This keeps people interested in the game regardless if they play it or not. Just look at how many haters and quitters that keep posting.

Anyways continue the bitch session.

 

 

 

Putting this thread in the series of Panda threads made in the last few weeks by OrkhamsRazor:

 

I feel bad for OP. Making so many threads about his hatred towards Blizzard. I don't think anyone goes to such lengths to tell others about their dissapointment without having an agenda. I think it's a shame that mods do not try to condense these sorts of thread. Almost all of Orkhams thread are about the same arguments.

You can see in all of them how he carefully selects the people he chooses to reply to, but not those with legitimate arguments against him. He just makes new threads to further cause an uproar where there ain't much.

 

Some people like Pandas. Some people don't. Same goes for the other features, but going on a Crusade like this should not be allowed on the forum. I agree with some of the others that the poll is in poor taste.

The interviews I have read over the years at Blizzard(for example check Gamespy interview with Roper before he left) suggests that they do not have one creative voice but their strengths lie in that they make choices based on many, and not one game director. 

This was made clear over the uproar in 2000, when Jeff Strain and friends left to ArenaNet. Basically Blizzard was going to die and all that. They assured that their efforts were extremely collaborative efforts. Same story in 2003 over the founding of Flagship Studios, and same response.

Time and time again, people said they would fail. 

 

 

 

 

Here is some of Orkhams other threads on this subject. You will find my responses in some of them: 

 

 

Poll should Ghostcrawler be sacked over MOP? : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/330621/Poll-should-Ghostcrawler-be-sacked-over-MOP-.html

 

Is Blizzard really pandering to the 12 year olds ? : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/330144

 

I think Blizzard just handed it to StarWars TOR on a plate . : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/330064/I-think-Blizzard-just-handed-it-to-StarWars-TOR-on-a-plate-.html

 

Its not just about Pandas its about Pokemon too . : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/330112/Its-not-just-about-Pandas-its-about-Pokemon-too-.html

 

Todays the day I realised I would never return to WoW. Pandas:( : http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/330011/Todays-the-day-I-realised-I-would-never-return-to-WoW-Pandas-.html

 

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3565

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

10/31/11 11:23:41 PM#106
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by catlana

I really dislike the MoP dumbed down talent system. You make six talent choices for your character. Because of these types of decisions, I would prefer if Ghostcrawler was not providing direction of WoW.

Yeah, each time I look at the MoP Calc:  http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

...well, I've got a headache from the /facepalm.

Make mine double...As in face palm. If thats really all there is to it, that may well be the game breaker for me. 

  Faelsun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/07
Posts: 482

11/01/11 1:18:13 AM#107
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by catlana

I really dislike the MoP dumbed down talent system. You make six talent choices for your character. Because of these types of decisions, I would prefer if Ghostcrawler was not providing direction of WoW.

Yeah, each time I look at the MoP Calc:  http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

...well, I've got a headache from the /facepalm.

THATS the new talent calculator? Seriously they CALL that a calculator? I mean the Cata calcuator is garbage but this, isn't even a good bad joke.

  Cacophanist

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/11
Posts: 108

11/01/11 1:22:42 AM#108

Hell no !

If WOW keep releasing shite like this then pretty soon people are going to wake up and realise just how bad WOW really is and try something new.

If WOW keep releasing shite like this then subs might go down and developers might think about trying something new, unlike SWTOR.

If WOW keep releasing shite like this then the whole MMO scene will benefit inordinatly. 

Not that I have anything against WOW you understand - it is great if you suffer from a mental illness. 

  User Deleted
11/01/11 1:37:46 AM#109
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by catlana

I really dislike the MoP dumbed down talent system. You make six talent choices for your character. Because of these types of decisions, I would prefer if Ghostcrawler was not providing direction of WoW.

Yeah, each time I look at the MoP Calc:  http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

...well, I've got a headache from the /facepalm.

Make mine double...As in face palm. If thats really all there is to it, that may well be the game breaker for me. 

 

Eighteen skills, pick six.  That's amazing.  I wonder if I get to keep my dual spec ability?

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

11/01/11 10:58:23 AM#110

Me and three bronies are volunteering to help with quartering him. <3

 

  User Deleted
11/01/11 2:56:04 PM#111
Originally posted by PukeBucket
Originally posted by Drekker17
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by catlana

I really dislike the MoP dumbed down talent system. You make six talent choices for your character. Because of these types of decisions, I would prefer if Ghostcrawler was not providing direction of WoW.

Yeah, each time I look at the MoP Calc:  http://www.wowhead.com/mists-of-pandaria-talent-calculator

...well, I've got a headache from the /facepalm.

I know right, it's like...why do you need a talent calculator now?

Aren't the "we need balanzed!" players delighted?

[Mod Edit]


If we learned anything, it's that no matter how few choices they give and no matter how much they homogenize the classes, they can't get anything even close to balance. 

If that truly is how things will be in MoP, there is less choice than before.  Only being able to pick one per row/level instead of a points system focuses you on an even greater "most needed" cookie cutter build than the previous builds where the only real choice talents had little to no impact on your character.  Making them not much of a choice at all.  Also, in the new style, hybrids suffer from "tiers" where you want multiple and tiers where you are so so on all three choices.  I think it's a horrible design.  And, staying with the main question, GC should be fired for repeated bad talent designs(entire system design), homogenization in very unequal ways, horrible pvp and pve balance, and being an absolute twit of a person to customers.

  Silverthorn8

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/08
Posts: 481

11/01/11 3:08:11 PM#112

No I empaphise with gc, he's just a guy doing his job and getting shit feedback from the dregs of the gaming community. His govenors are probably assholes as well (much like most peoples bosses).

Personally I'd relish an opportunity to spite two birds with one stone like GC just has :P

 

  User Deleted
11/01/11 5:52:31 PM#113
Originally posted by Silverthorn8

No I empaphise with gc, he's just a guy doing his job and getting shit feedback from the dregs of the gaming community. His govenors are probably assholes as well (much like most peoples bosses).

Personally I'd relish an opportunity to spite two birds with one stone like GC just has :P

 

You mean the ones who've had to correct him on how the game he works on actually works?  The game where he is in charge of a very large section of it's design, where he makes a ton of money, and even likes to brag about the boating and drinking past times it allows him?  I'm sure he tries his best and all, but he is clearly not the best person for his job.

  User Deleted
11/01/11 5:54:18 PM#114

I get the disticnt feeling 90% of people who voted yes aren't old enough to hold a job...

  C1d0s

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/09
Posts: 242

"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." ~ Groucho Marx

11/01/11 6:07:23 PM#115
Originally posted by Archeminos

I get the disticnt feeling 90% of people who voted yes aren't old enough to hold a job...

That makes no sense at all. Have you had a job?

It's pretty simple: You do your job ( expectedly well ) and don't get fired, or you do a terrible job and end up getting fired.

There are various variables inbetween that might change the outlook, but that is - essentially - how it works.

IMO, Ghostcrawler hasn't put any effort into his work recently and the newest 'revolutionary' change to the WoW talent trees are simply narrowing the choices while simultanously enforcing cookie-cutter specializations. Because fewer choices means more customization, right? No. It MAY be easier to balance, but with Blizzard's track record on that.. I doubt that'll work either.

  azmundai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/10
Posts: 1424

11/01/11 6:15:29 PM#116


Originally posted by OkhamsRazor


Originally posted by azmundai
I voted no simply because its a horrible pole and the author obviously want everyone to vote yes. which is probably the most disturbing thing i've seen on the internet in the past 4 hours.


Oh come on be serious . If you find this disturbing you really shouldn't be on the internet in the first place . And yes personally I think people should be made accountable for thier mistakes when they are large ones .
WoW needs some new ideas at the top . Someone thats got that hunger . When hes gone and someone else is in charge and probably doing a better job you will be first in line saying this is much better now .
Had I wanted it to be everyone  voting yes I would have put the poll up in the general forums rather than here in the WoW forums . I thought it would be a lot fairer to ask WoW fans what they thought rather than general mmo fans that hate WoW . Because after all they are the one affected .
I was more likly to get that in the WoW forums than elsewhere .
Nuff said .

"most disturbing thing in the last 4 hours" .. its a sarcastic form of sarcasm.

LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already :)

  xS0u1zx

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/07
Posts: 215

11/01/11 6:22:03 PM#117
Originally posted by C1d0s
Originally posted by Archeminos

I get the disticnt feeling 90% of people who voted yes aren't old enough to hold a job...

That makes no sense at all. Have you had a job?

It's pretty simple: You do your job ( expectedly well ) and don't get fired, or you do a terrible job and end up getting fired.

There are various variables inbetween that might change the outlook, but that is - essentially - how it works.

IMO, Ghostcrawler hasn't put any effort into his work recently and the newest 'revolutionary' change to the WoW talent trees are simply narrowing the choices while simultanously enforcing cookie-cutter specializations. Because fewer choices means more customization, right? No. It MAY be easier to balance, but with Blizzard's track record on that.. I doubt that'll work either.

Actually you're wrong about that...    You do your job and make the company money, you don't get fired...

If you do a good job, but don't make the company enough money.  Even though you're a damn good worker, means you're gonna lose your job.   Why do you think companies downsize and get rid of the 20 year long employees..   Price vs Profit.  Yes, that also means.  You do a bad job but make the company money you keep your job vs the good worker who doesn't make enough profit...    It's about the $$$, the rest is just minor details.

Ghostcrawler is obviously making Blizzard tons of cash whether anyone likes it or not, that is why he is employed and that is why he holds his job.   If he wasn't making them cash, someone would take his place that would

Morals do not exist in the business world!!!

  C1d0s

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/09
Posts: 242

"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." ~ Groucho Marx

11/01/11 6:26:30 PM#118
Originally posted by xS0u1zx
Originally posted by C1d0s
Originally posted by Archeminos

I get the disticnt feeling 90% of people who voted yes aren't old enough to hold a job...

That makes no sense at all. Have you had a job?

It's pretty simple: You do your job ( expectedly well ) and don't get fired, or you do a terrible job and end up getting fired.

There are various variables inbetween that might change the outlook, but that is - essentially - how it works.

IMO, Ghostcrawler hasn't put any effort into his work recently and the newest 'revolutionary' change to the WoW talent trees are simply narrowing the choices while simultanously enforcing cookie-cutter specializations. Because fewer choices means more customization, right? No. It MAY be easier to balance, but with Blizzard's track record on that.. I doubt that'll work either.

Actually you're wrong about that...    You do your job and make the company money, you don't get fired...

If you do a good job, but don't make the company enough money.  Even though you're a damn good worker, means you're gonna lose your job.   Why do you think companies downsize and get rid of the 20 year long employees..   Price vs Profit.  Yes, that also means.  You do a bad job but make the company money you keep your job vs the good worker who doesn't make enough profit...    It's about the $$$, the rest is just minor details.

Ghostcrawler is obviously making Blizzard tons of cash whether anyone likes it or not, that is why he is employed and that is why he holds his job.   If he wasn't making them cash, someone would take his place that would

Morals do not exist in the business world!!!

Those were the variables I spoke about, and I agree on your point.

As much as I think he is doing a poor job, the company clearly sees the opposite due to the income he nets them; thusly, they haven't fired him and probably won't until he either retires or gets tired of being filthy rich.

  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

11/01/11 7:20:06 PM#119
Originally posted by C1d0s
Because fewer choices means more customization, right?

Considering WoW has always had cookie cutter builds since it released, then any actual meaningful customization is an improvement. Also the addition of specs at level 10 was one of the best improvements WoWs system has had, infact it probably the only real change its ever had beyond the shuffling of talents each expansion.

Really even though with this new idea you spend less "points" overall, you are actually making real changes to how you play in comparison too other players. I suppose though if your the type that just likes making terrible builds because it makes you special, then yeah your probably not going to like this kind of idea.

But for players that what an actual competive build and still have some choice in how they play then this system gives them more meaningful choice than WoW has ever done. Even back in TBC you were lucky if your class had more than 1 viable tree for anything, let alone had spec variations with a tree.

Even in terms of class balance GC hasn't done any worse than anyone else, I mean the irony is hes known for nerfing Ret Paladins. People hate on him for that, yet without him Ret Paladins would still be a complete joke that you couldn't nerf even if you tried.

I mean its totally obvious 90% of you whiners didn't play WoW back in vanilla, if you had you be damn grateful for LKs/Cata's talents trees and gameplay changes.

  C1d0s

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/09
Posts: 242

"Behind every successful man is a woman, behind her is his wife." ~ Groucho Marx

11/01/11 7:32:11 PM#120
Originally posted by Teh_Axi
Originally posted by C1d0s
Because fewer choices means more customization, right?

Considering WoW has always had cookie cutter builds since it released, then any actual meaningful customization is an improvement. Also the addition of specs at level 10 was one of the best improvements WoWs system has had, infact it probably the only real change its ever had beyond the shuffling of talents each expansion.

Really even though with this new idea you spend less "points" overall, you are actually making real changes to how you play in comparison too other players. I suppose though if your the type that just likes making terrible builds because it makes you special, then yeah your probably not going to like this kind of idea.

But for players that what an actual competive build and still have some choice in how they play then this system gives them more meaningful choice than WoW has ever done. Even back in TBC you were lucky if your class had more than 1 viable tree for anything, let alone had spec variations with a tree.

Even in terms of class balance GC hasn't done any worse than anyone else, I mean the irony is hes known for nerfing Ret Paladins. People hate on him for that, yet without him Ret Paladins would still be a complete joke that you couldn't nerf even if you tried.

I mean its totally obvious 90% of you whiners didn't play WoW back in vanilla, if you had you be damn grateful for LKs/Cata's talents trees and gameplay changes.

I barely played in vanilla, but was present all throughout BC up to Cataclsym. The trees have only become progressively worse and worse. Yes, there will always be 'cookie-cutter' specs because nobody wants to intentionally nerf themselves when Spec A has a clear, mathematical advantage over Spec B. It will be the EXACT same when these new changes are implimented, only less choices will be made overall and the 'customization' will be a difference of unessential, normally meaningless talents. The only difference in your playstyle will be that you chose "Pointless Talent 3" instead of "Pointless Talent 5" - and that is how it has always been. Less talents, less customization; less talents, more homogenization.

[Mod Edit]

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