Trending Games | Elder Scrolls Online | Guild Wars 2 | ArcheAge | Dragon Age: Inquisition

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,645,660 Users Online:0
Games:686  Posts:6,082,760
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Everquest Next: Landmark Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What type of progression would you prefer, character or wealth?

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
91 posts found
  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

10/23/11 9:28:54 PM#41
Originally posted by Nerf09
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by Nerf09
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by Nerf09

Character progression:  You do flex emotes in front of auction house for all to see your uber glowing sword and armor.

That is not character progression...

...that is gear progression.

Correct spelling Nazi.

OK fine gear progression, same thing since everyone hits max level.

Correct spelling Nazi?

And no, it is not the same thing in the least.  Are you kidding?  Character Progression is not Gear Progression.  Gear Progression is not Character Progression.  They are not the same thing in the least.

The gist of your question is more of are you a tactical or a strategic player - having very little to do with character progression or wealth progression...

...but regardless of that particular issue:

GEAR

PROGRESSION

IS NOT

CHARACTER

PROGRESSION!

GEAR PROGRESSION HAS THE SAME EFFECT AS CHARACTER PROGRESSION, IT MIGHT AS WELL BE THE SAME THING!  THINK OF GEAR PROGRESSION AS A SECONDARY LEVEL CAP AT RAID GEAR!

No, it does not.

Thank you for mentioning "RAID" in your reply, because that is where this pathetic misconception has originated - with raiders.  It is the reason that we have ended up with so many crappy game lobby games instead of actual MMORPGs.

Let's use Tom and Jerry for an example.

We give both Tom and Jerry each a stick to beat the other with.  Through character progression, they would become better at beating each other with that stick.  The character actually progresses.

With gear progression, we'll give them better and better sticks.  They never actually get better themselves.  Take the better stick away.  Tada - they have stagnated.

Say we have Tom following a character progression path.  We have Jerry following a gear progression path.  We'll go with their "stats" being the same as they progress.  Now give Jerry Tom's stick and Tom Jerry's stick.  Jerry's going to be a bloody smudge on the ground.

Gear Progression, Endgame, Carrot Chasing, etc - is character stagnation in most games.

It alienates many old MMORPG players and the new MMOGL players are never satisfied.

Most MMOs these days are populated by powergaming munchkins suffering equal parts OCD and ADHD.

It is funny that you want to separate Character Progression and Wealth Progression (generally tactical/strategic gaming).  It is abnormal - in a sense.  Generally speaking, there is a progression from playing the more tactical role to playing the more strategic role.

Heroes go about their adventures - growing in power - eventually with that power comes additional responsibility - which often translates into taking on a more strategic role than a tactical role.

Games such as Shadowbane and EVE Online come to mind with this.  It has been represented countless times in fiction, as the heroes or groups of heroes find themselves in charge of armies, kingdoms, and the rest.  Often, those heroes that have found themselves in those strategic roles with sneak off for some tactical adventures...they miss it.

There should be no reason to separate the two...in that sense.

No doubt though, there are players that prefer a FPS game to a RTS game (and vice versa).  There are players that enjoy both.  A game that could attract both, satisfy both, etc - well, how exactly would that be a bad thing?

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  User Deleted
10/23/11 9:32:24 PM#42
Originally posted by Nerf09

Character progression:  You do flex emotes in front of auction house for all to see your uber glowing sword and armor.

Wealth progression:  You own land, castles, dungeons, a business, and NPC's to do your bidding.

 

This is an either/or question, you can't have both.  You cannot have both character progression and wealth progression.  Eve Online has this and those that have been subscribed longer shut everyone else out of the high end content, and they hoard everything for themselves.

But if there is no character "progression", it would be as if everyone is the same level and equally killable, if you can get past their NPC guards or if you catch a wealthy character out in the open.

 That highlighted part of a business hmmm that is what a crafter is a business man and producer of good. So still fits into that grouping as per what you placed into the definition. So you could actually read what you said and actually think before getting snotty abotu it. Also owning things is not wealth it is status you are looking for. IT would be better to label that as Status not wealth, sicne what you liste except for that one there is status symbols not really wealth. I could be wealthy with millions in savings but have nothing of what you list, or i could be poor with having gotten all you listed. Yet it is still characetr progression both ways you look at it. YOu gain things you progress yoru characetr and his/her goal, you progress in gear your character's ower grows progressing further into the game. I actually played game most likely longer then you have.

 

Using the tired and retarded insult of wow-this or that is pretty childish and shows you can not even think to look at your own questiona dn post in a way that is differnet from what you intended, after asking for others to give what they thought.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11363

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

10/23/11 9:33:57 PM#43

I tend to like the latter. Dungeon Empires, Grepolis, Ikariam, Lord of Ultima and a lot of the other persistent browser-based games (PBBG) are really nice diversions. 

More CMS, RTS and SLG in my MMO, plz!

 

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2007

10/23/11 9:34:34 PM#44
Originally posted by Nerf09
Originally posted by Biggus99

Although you have obviously worded your poll to make us vote for wealth progression, I still prefer character progression.  It is an MMORPG, after all, not an MMORTS.  Saying all that, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a game that gives you both.  Nothing wrong with combining the two, if done correctly. 

Eve Online is why combining the two doesn't work correctly.

Why would you say I worded it to make you vote for wealth progression?  In character progression games THEE endgame is getting your glowing sword and armor, that's it.  How else can it be worded?

Character progression encompasses everything from fun talent/mastery/speccing systems, ability gains, and gear, to how your character's role in the story of the game advances (Ie. slowly becoming a famous heroic figure.)  It's all about giving the player a sense of accomplishment, improvement and power.  By your wording, you reduced this complex category to 1 single aspect, the one that is very frequently associated with vanity, macho egoism and superficiality.  You most definitely did put a negative twist on that category.  Heck, you even had me, a lover of character progression systems going all the way back to the days of the super nintendo Final Fantasies, thinking, "Well gee, that doesn't sound like very much fun."

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

 
OP  10/23/11 9:48:25 PM#45

Character progression and Gear progression is the exact same thing:  you get better stats, that's it.

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

10/23/11 9:49:10 PM#46
Originally posted by Loktofeit

I tend to like the latter. Dungeon Empires, Grepolis, Ikariam, Lord of Ultima and a lot of the other persistent browser-based games (PBBG) are really nice diversions. 

More CMS, RTS and SLG in my MMO, plz!

 

Personally, I think what prevents this with most games is that first part of the acronym - MASSIVELY.  There are simply too many players occupying what tend to be smallish worlds for us to have that level of metagaming.  Where there are so many heroes and such...

...which I know is an odd thing to say, considering how barren many players find the worlds to be outside of the cities.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11363

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

10/23/11 9:51:08 PM#47
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by Nerf09
Originally posted by Biggus99

Although you have obviously worded your poll to make us vote for wealth progression, I still prefer character progression.  It is an MMORPG, after all, not an MMORTS.  Saying all that, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a game that gives you both.  Nothing wrong with combining the two, if done correctly. 

Eve Online is why combining the two doesn't work correctly.

Why would you say I worded it to make you vote for wealth progression?  In character progression games THEE endgame is getting your glowing sword and armor, that's it.  How else can it be worded?

Character progression encompasses everything from fun talent/mastery/speccing systems, ability gains, and gear, to how your character's role in the story of the game advances (Ie. slowly becoming a famous heroic figure.)  It's all about giving the player a sense of accomplishment, improvement and power.  By your wording, you reduced this complex category to 1 single aspect, the one that is very frequently associated with vanity, macho egoism and superficiality.  You most definitely did put a negative twist on that category.  Heck, you even had me, a lover of character progression systems going all the way back to the days of the super nintendo Final Fantasies, thinking, "Well gee, that doesn't sound like very much fun."


Shhh, Homitu! He thinks he's actually pulling this one off. Let him keep going. It's more fun letting him think he's got everyone snowed.

 

  VirusDancer

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/04
Posts: 3684

Heroes are about character - not gear.

10/23/11 10:00:18 PM#48
Originally posted by Nerf09

Character progression and Gear progression is the exact same thing:  you get better stats, that's it.

Tony Stewart in a NASCAR Camry.

You in a NASCAR Camry.

You've both got the same "gear".

Tony will smoke you.

* * * * *

Tony Stewart in a Corolla.

You in a NASCAR Camry.

You've got the better car.

Tony will still smoke you.

* * * * *

Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing.  Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.

Alternate Advancement is character progression - no gear involved.  The ability to unlock additional skill paths/abilities is character progression - no gear involved.  Even the ability to utilize additional types of gear could be considered character progression - where there may not actually be gear progression involved.

MMOs suffer from character stagnation at the expense of gear progression.  Chase that better sword - it's better!  You're the same, but with the sword you're better!  It's no wonder that Apple has done so well - here's the iPhone 9000, you've got to buy it - it's better than the iPhone 8999 that you bought earlier today!  That insane mindset has infected MMORPGs with all the carrot chasing going on.

I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?

Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

10/23/11 10:53:59 PM#49
Originally posted by Nerf09

GEAR PROGRESSION HAS THE SAME EFFECT AS CHARACTER PROGRESSION, IT MIGHT AS WELL BE THE SAME THING!  THINK OF GEAR PROGRESSION AS A SECONDARY LEVEL CAP AT RAID GEAR!

Wealth progresison is pretty damn similar to character progression too.

In Terraria wealth progression basically *is* character progression.

Should we call off this entire thread on account of not enough logic or maturity to hold a reasonable discussion?

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

 
OP  10/23/11 11:49:54 PM#50
Originally posted by Axehilt
Wealth progresison is pretty damn similar to character progression too.

In Terraria wealth progression basically *is* character progression.

No they are 2 completely different things.  Did you read the original post?  And what the hell is Terraria, could you possibly come up with a more unknown title?

  xKingdomx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 1549

10/23/11 11:49:57 PM#51
Originally posted by VirusDancer
Originally posted by Nerf09

Character progression and Gear progression is the exact same thing:  you get better stats, that's it.

Tony Stewart in a NASCAR Camry.

You in a NASCAR Camry.

You've both got the same "gear".

Tony will smoke you.

* * * * *

Tony Stewart in a Corolla.

You in a NASCAR Camry.

You've got the better car.

Tony will still smoke you.

* * * * *

Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing.  Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.

Alternate Advancement is character progression - no gear involved.  The ability to unlock additional skill paths/abilities is character progression - no gear involved.  Even the ability to utilize additional types of gear could be considered character progression - where there may not actually be gear progression involved.

MMOs suffer from character stagnation at the expense of gear progression.  Chase that better sword - it's better!  You're the same, but with the sword you're better!  It's no wonder that Apple has done so well - here's the iPhone 9000, you've got to buy it - it's better than the iPhone 8999 that you bought earlier today!  That insane mindset has infected MMORPGs with all the carrot chasing going on.

What you are using as an example is player skill progression, not character progression. If you are right, that means if I drive more I will eventually be as good as him, which isn't the case here.

 

Character progression ingame doesn't pose any challenge because it acts as a guideline as to how player is progression through the game, you are expected to reach the end of the progression, where gear progression provides a grind challenge which comes after you hit the top of the character progression (lets be honest here, you can pretty much use quest gear for 90% MMORPG till endgame, if that is what people call gear progression, I will quit all my MMO game right now), thus MMO doesn't really pose a real challenge other than a game for grinding patience and numerical speadsheet skills.

 

As long as there are simple character progression like levels and combat with pure numerical factors such as aggro and dps to dictate the outcome of battles, you can expect gear progression to be just right there with it. Gear progression is a manifestation of MMORPG players obessions with numbers, they blame lag and want a combat system where they can 'plan' their strategy, planning is 50% of strategy, the other half is how you deal with surprise events, which is what MMO players call twitch. As much players don't want to admit it, twitch is a huge factor in any realistic and competitive combat, pure numbers can't do everything.

 

How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

 
OP  10/23/11 11:50:46 PM#52
Originally posted by VirusDancer

Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing.  Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.

Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing.  A  hitpoint is a hitpoint.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

 
OP  10/23/11 11:53:08 PM#53
Originally posted by Loktofeit
 


Shhh, Homitu! He thinks he's actually pulling this one off. Let him keep going. It's more fun letting him think he's got everyone snowed.

 

Oh so you're one of those types who think gaining 50 hitpoitns from leveling up is totally different than gaining 50 hitpoints from a piece of gear.   I see.  Must be 2 types of hitpoints.

  marinrider

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 1574

10/23/11 11:53:58 PM#54
Originally posted by Nerf09
Originally posted by VirusDancer

Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing.  Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.

Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing.  A  hitpoint is a hitpoint.

A continent has some cities and a country in that continent has some cities, but just because they both have cities doesnt make them the same thing.

Just because character progression and gear progression both have stats is irrelevant, character progression is much more than stats while gear progression basically boils down to stats and looks.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

 
OP  10/23/11 11:55:00 PM#55
Originally posted by marinrider
Originally posted by Nerf09
Originally posted by VirusDancer

Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing.  Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.

Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing.  A  hitpoint is a hitpoint.

A continent has some cities and a country in that continent has some cities, but just because they both have cities doesnt make them the same thing.

Just because character progression and gear progression both have stats is irrelevant, character progression is much more than stats while gear progression basically boils down to stats and looks.

Character progression and gear progression are the same thing.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16649

10/23/11 11:56:11 PM#56

I chose the first choice, couldn't care less about "wealth".

[edit as the original question has been altered]

One could look at it like:

which would you prefer?

1, to be a hero doing great deeds, fighting through swaths of your enemies, making tactcial decisions to win the battle or

2, spending time watching an auction house and looking at prices go up and down and working on your spread sheets.

 

or

3, picking what is suitable for your style and being able to follow what you enjoy.

But there was no 3 so I picked 1.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8149

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

10/23/11 11:58:03 PM#57
Originally posted by Nerf09
Originally posted by VirusDancer

Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing.  Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.

Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing.  A  hitpoint is a hitpoint.

Both have the same result.....

 

But they are not the same.... character progression involves much more then just stat progression (skills/traits and such)

 

When you reach the point of a game where character progression ends... and there is only gear progression then many people start loosing interest in those games.  AA systems like EQ and EQ2 have allow you to continue character progression at max level...

 

And then there are some games that have a mix of both in that they let you level up and progress your gear... But in the end its still gear progression...

 

 

Obviously its games like WoW that want people to beleive that they are the same thing, but thats to cover up one of the biggest flaws in WoW.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online

  marinrider

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 1574

10/23/11 11:58:13 PM#58
Originally posted by Nerf09
 

Character progression and gear progression are the same thing.

All water is a compound but not all compounds are water...

 

Your argument is flawless, count me convinced.

/sarcasm.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

 
OP  10/23/11 11:58:50 PM#59

Back to the original post before it was hijacked by the Gang of Irrelevant Information Bureau (GIIB),

what do you prefer?

-----Character progression (Which also includes gear progression)

Or

------Wealth progression?  (Castles, houses, factories, peons npcs, miner npcs, soldier npcs, dungeons, a business)

 

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8149

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

10/24/11 12:01:57 AM#60
Originally posted by Nerf09

Back to the original post before it was hijacked by the Gang of Irrelevant Information Bureau (GIIB),

what do you prefer?

-----Character progression (Which also includes gear progression)

Or

------Wealth progression?  (Castles, houses, factories, peons npcs, miner npcs, soldier npcs, dungeons, a business)

 

How about a good mix of both.....

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search