Trending Games | ArcheAge | WildStar | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,736,585 Users Online:0
Games:714  Posts:6,175,032
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » "MMOs Need More B*******"

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search
62 posts found
  meilirs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 31

10/28/11 1:40:24 AM#21

I guess it's the trend nowadays to make MMOs more casual gamer friendly and therefore reduce or even totally remove old school "kill and loot their armor" type of gameplay but I miss it.

Yeah, sometimes you die and it sucks a lot when you lose all of your good stuff but hey, it made life more exciting back in the day. You had to keep an eye out for those murdering player killers all the time. I mean, if a player went up to you and noticed you were afk, say goodbye to your armor. Heck, if I went up to a lower-level guy and he was afking, I would kill him myself even though I am not a hardcore pk. It was just how it was.

Nowadays you can probably play any MMO without worrying about anything at all. Just go and play solo, complete your quests and level up. That's what I do in WoW.

  Athena_Starfire

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 169

UH! Whats this lever do?

10/28/11 2:05:30 AM#22

You would totally hate my world. No Player Looting (or Player Killing for that matter..I know ZMOG!! NO PVP!! sorry not here..)

The monsters in the world are perfectly capable of killing you without help from players.

Looking for a good time with no B.S? come back to the best MMO ever made (and the most customizable) Neverwinter Nights - The First Edition.

Cheers

 

  meilirs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 31

10/28/11 2:16:53 AM#23

Lol I am watching the new E3 Neverwinter MMO trailer right now. Weird coincidence.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16411

10/28/11 2:32:53 AM#24

The article isn't stupid but misses that the problem isn't that MMOs have less freedom now, some of the old had very little freedom as well. The problem is that they are all the same, or to be more precicesly gives the same experience to the playrs who plays them.

The old games varied a lot and by playing a few you got different experiences, instead of just leveling 6 weeks, 2 weeks of dungeons and then the old raid hamsterwheel all games today with few exceptions have.

Different skins and names of the attacks and possibly the classes ain't enough, it is still all the same crap.And having 80 instead of 40 levels at launch changes nothing at all even though some companies seems to think it does.

I remember when actually learning a new games took time and at least some basic skill. Games like Rift took about 2 minutes to get into. No surprises, nothing unexpected, just the same old familiar things.

Are MMO players really that boring that most of us just want more old familiar stuff year after year?

Or are the players getting old and wanting the same safe stuff they liked when they were younger, as so many people seems to do with music?

I personally hope at least it is just the uninspired few publishers like EA and Activision that is behind it all.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16411

10/28/11 2:36:28 AM#25
Originally posted by Alx_Starfire

You would totally hate my world. No Player Looting (or Player Killing for that matter..I know ZMOG!! NO PVP!! sorry not here..)

The monsters in the world are perfectly capable of killing you without help from players.

Looking for a good time with no B.S? come back to the best MMO ever made (and the most customizable) Neverwinter Nights - The First Edition.

Cheers

It was a great game, but not really a MMO. 128 players on each servers is just too small, it is a MORPG, not a MMORPG.

I wish Bioware could get back the FR license and remake this game, it is one of the few oold games good enough for that.

As for Cryptics version, I am at least glad their new owners took them in the ear and forced them to mave back the game a year and actually release something that is close to complete this time.

  Adamantine

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3298

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

10/28/11 3:38:23 AM#26

This article is a huge pile of bull.

 

First, if you want to play UO, then go play UO. Dont annoy me with demanding that MY MMO should be UO, too. I dont want to play UO, end of story.

 

Second, the point of games is that they should be fun. Yes, a chance for failure, a challenge, helps fun.

But getting killed by a ganker is no failure. You stand no chance. If you would stand a chance, the ganker wouldnt bother to attack. Thus, there is no failure on your part.

Thus, gankers do not cause fun. Gankers do not cause thrill. Gankers simply kill other peoples motive to play the game. Gankers are assholes that should get banned the faster the better, end of story. Either you remove the bastards from your game, or the nice people will leave. Thats your only two choices.

 

Third, its just too funny that the article cites AGENT SMITH to support his theory, and doesnt even get what Agent Smith was actually saying. The Matrix is a lie in the first place.

 

And if I would actually want to see bastards, I can just go into politics. I really dont need any game for that.

 

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2501

10/28/11 5:09:06 AM#27
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Madimorga

Funny article, but I disagree with the cause and effect.  Let's reverse it.  If there were less Bastishes in MMOs, there would be less reason to restrict free will.

Odd way of looking at it, what is the point of free will if you cannot go against the grain?

 

The article is spot on, but prepare for people straight away crying "grief" without even reading it.

I agree with your statement and thats also the big problem these days.

I agree 100% with article.

Most whiners and crybabys will never understand this way of playing anyway.

MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:WIN7 64bit Ultimate

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2501

10/28/11 5:13:48 AM#28
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Alx_Starfire

You would totally hate my world. No Player Looting (or Player Killing for that matter..I know ZMOG!! NO PVP!! sorry not here..)

The monsters in the world are perfectly capable of killing you without help from players.

Looking for a good time with no B.S? come back to the best MMO ever made (and the most customizable) Neverwinter Nights - The First Edition.

Cheers

It was a great game, but not really a MMO. 128 players on each servers is just too small, it is a MORPG, not a MMORPG.

I wish Bioware could get back the FR license and remake this game, it is one of the few oold games good enough for that.

As for Cryptics version, I am at least glad their new owners took them in the ear and forced them to mave back the game a year and actually release something that is close to complete this time.

If im correctly AoC alos have MAX 50 players on one server clone so you never wil see more then 50 players or you have to go to other clone server. So NWN with 128 is more a mmo then AoC but AoC is a mmorpg?

MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:WIN7 64bit Ultimate

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1058

10/28/11 6:41:38 AM#29

Unconditional freedom is an illusion. Real world societies do not operate in this manner and so wouldn't game societies. You need rules, laws, and policies to contain the people, especially in cases where real forms of punishment are merely superficial or redundant at best. Man, devoid of society's grasp, reveals its true nature and, unshackled by organization, is led to disruption, chaos, and absolute anarchy.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18723

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/28/11 6:48:43 AM#30
Originally posted by stealthbr

Absolute freedom is an illusion. Real world societies do not operate in this manner and so wouldn't game societies. You need rules, laws, and policies to contain the people, especially in cases where real forms of punishment are merely superficial or redundant at best. Man, devoid of society's grasp, reveals its true nature and, unshackled by organization, is led to disruption, chaos, and absolute anarchy.

Agreed, absolute freedom is a terrible goal for a MMORPG to have, especially if trying to develop a decent world simulation.

Real world has laws, police, severe penalties that even then struggle to keep the barbarian inside mankind in check, so in a game world with no real consequence how much more challenging is it for a developer to keep the baser instincts in check and prevent everything from devolving into chaos?

I suppose you could create a "policeman" class, which was substantially stronger than the average Pker, had the right to pursue and hunt down criminals with tools not normally at the disposal of the average pker, and the consequences for pking should be the same as in the real world, long term incararation or even character death.

Who really wants to take the time to design a game like that, too much effort and one finds that most people who claim to be griefers and pkers really don't have the stomach to face real in game risk, they make sure the odds are strongly in their favor in almost every situation. (which is smart I'll agree, but certainly no fun for the victim)

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 16941

10/28/11 6:54:22 AM#31
Originally posted by Kyleran one finds that most people who claim to be griefers and pkers really don't have the stomach to face real in game risk, they make sure the odds are strongly in their favor in almost every situation. (which is smart I'll agree, but certainly no fun for the victim)

 

I think in many cases that is true.

The few times I located and pk'ed former attackers I found them to be crying, whiny little kids. going off on rants, swearing, making threats that they would make my life miserable, etc. when they found me I was completley unaware and as is the case with some of these games, at times it only takes a few hits to push you into "you lose" territory.

Not in every case but they are there.

They just be joys in "real life".

still, there are pk'ers who are decent people and who add a bit of fun to open world pvp. They are respectful, react with "ah yeah, you got me" and in genreal act more in line with the spirit of these games being "games".

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2501

10/28/11 7:09:44 AM#32
Originally posted by stealthbr

Absolute freedom is an illusion. Real world societies do not operate in this manner and so wouldn't game societies. You need rules, laws, and policies to contain the people, especially in cases where real forms of punishment are merely superficial or redundant at best. Man, devoid of society's grasp, reveals its true nature and, unshackled by organization, is led to disruption, chaos, and absolute anarchy.

Games are made by DEVELOPERS they annouce the game and it get followers right?

So when those followers know what game is, it seems to me when they start playing they agree on terms that game have right?

If the game have FREE FOR ALL(i think we all understand what that means right?) and you still starting to play and you accept those rules you can't complain about harsh PVP right?

But lets start with game thats no longer, but where i started to hate all whiners and crybabys who wanne be left alone  while pve and hated gankers/pkers.

Game is called Asherons call 2 it had regular PVE white serves with some areas where you could PVP like palisade region, and you had plenty of choice in US and EUROPE to choose your white server.

But you had one FREE FOR ALL server called DARKTIDE only ONE everybody knew it was a hardcore PVP(AND NOT EVEN WITH FULL LOOT) witch means in Asherons call 2 no safezone at all. Did not matter if you entered towns or dungeons its was all OPEN PVP.

So all who choose to play on such server SHOULD NEVER whine or cry about been corpse camped or ganked or that there dugeon run is ruined when your fight  BOSS for example. If you complain about FREE FOR ALL PVP choose a white server right or am i wrong tell me?

Nobody force you to play such servers with hardcore pvp right?

But NOOO... still people who keep crying and crying about harsh pvp becouse pkers/gankers did not leave them alone lol what a losers i say, dont make a toon then on server like that right?

The good thing about AC2 was it still had a decent ANTI vs RPK community on Darktide and ANTI many times protected the newbees and the weak and hunt down Pkers. Players made there own politics and most of time it worked when notorious players keep ganking lowbees ANTI came in to help them.

But thats how it slowly started people made a toon on FREE FOR ALL pvp server but still expected a WHITE safezone server WTF:(

Result is we have now mainly uber protective games with instance and bullshit BG or ARENAS for those who can't take real hardcore PVP.

Its sad but now only few games left like Darkfall and its empty becouse most hate the ganking or hardcore gameplay bah:(

One of reasons why i almost dont play MMO'S anymore is becouse of this attitude people have agains my favorite genre FREE FOR ALL FULL LOOT PVP and its dying:(

And you can't attacke me for this, becouse i was pure ANTI always helped weak and newbees and hunt down evil pk. But that was the whole fun pk/gankers attacked anybody they saw and ANTI fight those who disrupt the peace thats makes it fun and EXCITING.

@ Above poster what your saying is absolutely not true ive played sinds '99 mainly hardcore free for all pvp mmo's and ive for most time met pkers who dont cry more then the avarage white server leave me alone crybabys and whiners sure some maybe cryed and only take on lowbees but on Darktide that was for most part not the case.

MB:MSI Z97XPOWER AC
CPU:Intell Icore7 4790k
GPU:MSI 2x AMD 290X
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:WIN7 64bit Ultimate

  JaggaSpikes

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/21/06
Posts: 406

10/28/11 7:10:36 AM#33

the "problem" is not specific MMOs. "problem" are players. when players have different set of assumptions and expectation, no game system EVER will make all players happy. on the other side, when player do have same assumptions and expectations, the game system is irrelevant. that's why role-playing is primarily a cooperative experience, and it stands somewhat opposed to traditional gaming, which is competitive.

that's not to stay that role-players can't role-play "competition", but it's essential that resulting narrative will be acceptable to both sides. on the other hand, gamers can take on specific role, but it's not more than a flavor toward their desired goal.

in other words, it's not who's right or wrong, but what who wants what. more different games... for everyone!

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1058

10/28/11 7:45:58 AM#34
Originally posted by forest-nl <snip>

While developers do indeed decide how to formulate their game and how the rules are going to operate, in order for a meaningful, persistent, and healthy online community to develop and prosper, one needs laws, rules, and policies. You can't give freedom to the extent that the players can decide and do anything. Such does not work in the real world with actual punishments and would most definitely not work in an online environment, defined by its anonymosity and lack of real consequence. If you do not create a set of parameters that essentially limit what the character can do, uncategorically there will be no organization whatsoever. I suggest you read a rather famous novel called The Heart of Darkness, which deals a lot with how human nature operates without the constrictions of society.

  bhima

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/10
Posts: 82

10/28/11 8:06:42 AM#35
Originally posted by WW4BW
Originally posted by Madimorga
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Madimorga

Funny article, but I disagree with the cause and effect.  Let's reverse it.  If there were less Bastishes in MMOs, there would be less reason to restrict free will.

Odd way of looking at it, what is the point of free will if you cannot go against the grain?

 

 


The same point of me not going out and killing a bunch of random people, then burying their bodies in random locations just because I might get away with it?  You don't have to be a seriel killer to go against the grain, in real life or in games. 

Errrr isnt that what we do in MMOs every single day?.. ok sometimes its animals.. and more often than not they are computer controlled and not player controlled.. But 99% of all MMO and a great deal of other computer games are about killing stuff in droves.

 

 

Your analogy is a complete equivocation. There is no person on the other end of the game happily playing as the digital rat just moving about in a field.

Back to the topic at hand. Open world PvP with real consequences is extremely niche because most players don't have the time to keep up with elitePKninjarzxxx. How many people play Mortal Online? Hell how many people played UO? Take the agregate of the gaming community and you will see that the vast majority has already voted with their dollar away from that type of system.

A simple solution to the authors desire for that feeling of "I could be attacked at any moment" would be to play games with RvR. It consolidates a large audience of people that like this in their game without ruining the fun other people have in the game. The problem isn't that there's not enough "free will" as the author puts it, the problem with MMOs today is that they follow the same, tired game design troupes: Questing is repetitive, gear grinds > skill, nothing in the world is very dynamic or changing.

Hopefully GW2 can help re-energize this stagnant genre. 

  Robsolf

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/21/06
Posts: 3990

Let go of my ears, I know what I'm doing!

10/28/11 8:18:47 AM#36
Originally posted by forest-nl
Originally posted by stealthbr

Absolute freedom is an illusion. Real world societies do not operate in this manner and so wouldn't game societies. You need rules, laws, and policies to contain the people, especially in cases where real forms of punishment are merely superficial or redundant at best. Man, devoid of society's grasp, reveals its true nature and, unshackled by organization, is led to disruption, chaos, and absolute anarchy.

Games are made by DEVELOPERS they annouce the game and it get followers right?

So when those followers know what game is, it seems to me when they start playing they agree on terms that game have right?

If the game have FREE FOR ALL(i think we all understand what that means right?) and you still starting to play and you accept those rules you can't complain about harsh PVP right?

But lets start with game thats no longer, but where i started to hate all whiners and crybabys who wanne be left alone  while pve and hated gankers/pkers.

I think what some folks are saying is that just because a game ALLOWS you to do something, doesn't mean you should do it.  If it was no longer illegal to kill people in real life, you wouldn't suddenly start seeing everybody jumping and stabbing total strangers when they turn their back.  While early MMO developers expected there to be some conflict, I doubt they figured on so many d-bags making griefing into a gaming career.  What was once intended to be the ultimate freedom in RP, was pretty much diminished to, "yeah... this guy's still hurt from fighting that panther.  Time to get my gank on".

Lastly Mr. Kayatta doesn't seem to want free will.  He just wants to be a dick to people who don't want to be treated that way.  He apparently doesn't want to go to Mortal Online or Darkfall, 2 games that would give him exactly what he wants.  WOW has PvP servers.  TOR will have PvP servers.  AoC has PvP servers, including a brand new one with all kinds of wide open PvP rules...

But that's not what he wants.

He wants to be able to go to LotRO, find a guy playing lute in the Prancing Pony, and take 'em out and teabag his corpse before the guy can even arm himself.  He's not interested in playing against like minded people, because there are games where those like minded people gather and play just like he does.  Nope. 

He just wants to be a dick, and UMADBRO just doesn't have the same impact against a willing participant.


 

 

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1058

10/28/11 9:35:11 AM#37
Originally posted by Robsolf

I think what some folks are saying is that just because a game ALLOWS you to do something, doesn't mean you should do it.  If it was no longer illegal to kill people in real life, you wouldn't suddenly start seeing everybody jumping and stabbing total strangers when they turn their back. 

 

Actually, I highly disagree with this. If killing were made legal, you would see the number of homicides, assassinations, and murders increase uncontrollably. It would become a free for all. If you had a family to support, and no money to do so, you would go steal from a groceries store. The store clerk would deny your assault, you would kill him, and that would be the end of it. There would be no stability, everything would be chaotic and we would tear each other apart.

  Vorruga

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 30

10/28/11 3:48:03 PM#38
Originally posted by stealthbr
Originally posted by Robsolf

I think what some folks are saying is that just because a game ALLOWS you to do something, doesn't mean you should do it.  If it was no longer illegal to kill people in real life, you wouldn't suddenly start seeing everybody jumping and stabbing total strangers when they turn their back. 

 

Actually, I highly disagree with this. If killing were made legal, you would see the number of homicides, assassinations, and murders increase uncontrollably. It would become a free for all. If you had a family to support, and no money to do so, you would go steal from a groceries store. The store clerk would deny your assault, you would kill him, and that would be the end of it. There would be no stability, everything would be chaotic and we would tear each other apart.

While I agree with that on some level, I don't think that the increase in homicides would be permanent.  The laws in our societies which prohibit murder came about due to the need for human beings to rely upon each other to survive.  Or, at least, to make surviving much easier.  Although there may be an increase in homicide for a short time, eventually this would stabilize as people learn first-hand exactly why murder was made illegal in the first place.  Sure, you could kill the grocer in order to feed your family, but keep in mind that that grocer's larder will eventually empty, and you'll be no better off than you were before.  Further, if the rest of the community also relies on that grocer for their food, they'll be pissed at the fact that you've killed him and will likely do something about it (kill you right back, perhaps?).  The laws that keep people in check were formed out of the interdependence of individuals in civilized society; removing federal law which prohibits murder wouldn't have an effect on that interdependence.  

The problem with MMOs, as I view it, is the slow loss of this interdependence among players.  In most games today its entirely possible, if you want, to get to max level on your own.  Increasingly more options are being provided for those who wish to continue to play by themselves at end-game.  Even the options that force you to interact (dungeon finders, scenario/battleground queues, etc.) allow you to interact cross-server in order to streamline the process.  While this may be all well and good, it destroys any semblance of a society or a community within these games, and that is where the anarchy comes from.

If you want my opinion on how to fix it, do this.  Increase the freedom people have in game.  Let them kill people or be an asshat as often as they'd like.  But also increase the difficulty of levelling content.  Make the game require positive, cooperative, amicable interaction between players in order to advance.  Of course, there will still be bastards, but if being a bastard means being blacklisted by so many people that you can't find a group, you'll either change your act real fast or be forced to reroll. 

 

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1058

10/28/11 4:29:54 PM#39
Originally posted by Vorruga

While I agree with that on some level, I don't think that the increase in homicides would be permanent.  The laws in our societies which prohibit murder came about due to the need for human beings to rely upon each other to survive.  Or, at least, to make surviving much easier.  Although there may be an increase in homicide for a short time, eventually this would stabilize as people learn first-hand exactly why murder was made illegal in the first place.  Sure, you could kill the grocer in order to feed your family, but keep in mind that that grocer's larder will eventually empty, and you'll be no better off than you were before.  Further, if the rest of the community also relies on that grocer for their food, they'll be pissed at the fact that you've killed him and will likely do something about it (kill you right back, perhaps?).  The laws that keep people in check were formed out of the interdependence of individuals in civilized society; removing federal law which prohibits murder wouldn't have an effect on that interdependence.  

The problem with MMOs, as I view it, is the slow loss of this interdependence among players.  In most games today its entirely possible, if you want, to get to max level on your own.  Increasingly more options are being provided for those who wish to continue to play by themselves at end-game.  Even the options that force you to interact (dungeon finders, scenario/battleground queues, etc.) allow you to interact cross-server in order to streamline the process.  While this may be all well and good, it destroys any semblance of a society or a community within these games, and that is where the anarchy comes from.

If you want my opinion on how to fix it, do this.  Increase the freedom people have in game.  Let them kill people or be an asshat as often as they'd like.  But also increase the difficulty of levelling content.  Make the game require positive, cooperative, amicable interaction between players in order to advance.  Of course, there will still be bastards, but if being a bastard means being blacklisted by so many people that you can't find a group, you'll either change your act real fast or be forced to reroll. 

 

That would not work simply because some people don't give a damn, especially in online worlds. Through anonymosity and lack of any real consequence, people can go about doing whatever the hell they feel like it, and eventually, they will look into detracting from other peoples' experience, even if that person would otherwise serve as someone helpful. For an in-game community to work, you not only need interdependence, but you need established laws and punishments. Some people live off what others gain. Some people just like to annoy others. Some people are simply crazy. Some people are too ambitious. Some are too greedy. Some may be unaware of the real reason they are killing. Some people are prejudicial. The list goes on and on. As much as most of the people in society tend to band together to establish a greater good and some sense of order, there is no predicting the human mentality of certain individuals, who alone can bring utter disruption without the infractions and penalties to stop them.

  blackcat35

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/05/07
Posts: 465

Developers of MMORPGS nerf us today so they can sell us tommorow what we had yesterday.

10/28/11 4:36:58 PM#40

Sometimes laws cause more harm than good.  In certain parts of the city, a bad traffic would happen approximately once a year, resulting in death.  To stop this problem, they removed the traffic lights and made a circular area, people had to slow down because they weren't use to it, and everyone is more careful in that intersection and as a result, for the last few years at least, no casualties.  Not to say that a bastard couldn't come along and run someone over, that is certainly possible.

We don't need more bastards in MMORPGS.  We do need more variety in mmorpgs.  Too many mmorpgs are too similiar.  not every mmorpg should have number keystrokes that activate abilities.  The majority do though.  Yes, you can remap your keyboard, but the point remains that a new system should be designed that is fun to play.  We need more complexity, and more diversity.  What is most mmorpgs about?  Leveling, and crafting....Most mmorpgs are about this.  We need more variety.

PVP should not be the only other option.  Some characters are just stronger than other builds.   A have a character in City of Heroes that is a scrapper, his main job is to do Damage per Second.  I upgraded him to have a range weapon and flight.  He's very dangerous in PVP.  The problem, its not that challenging.  No one wants to PVP one vs one in that game.  City of Heroes is all about PVE, not PVP.  Most mmorpgs are like this.  90% of the game is Care-bears.  They don't want to PVP.

Most smart people don't go around killing others (In real Life).  The reason is because its a quick way to end your own life.   Eventually you make a mistake, and either get caught or killed yourself.   99% of the population is normal, its the 1% that you have to watch out for.  probably less than 1%.    

 

==========================
The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.

4 Pages « 1 2 3 4 » Search