Originally posted by nattius

The whole "I only pirate because I couldn't afford/wouldnt have bought" line is B.S too. Do you go steal cars and mug old ladys for the same reasons? Sure game prices can be a rip off, doesn't make the above reasons anymore legit though.

 

this is total BS. if you want to steal i car you will have to know more stuff than if you pirate a game. the punishment if caught are also that much bigger.

i used to buy games all the time, until the gaming industry became big business and started to shoot out crappy games all the time. if you get disappointed soooo many times people will start to pirate instead.

pay 50€ for a game that provides me with days and weeks of entertainment and maybe even prolongs the experience by a well made multiplayer mode? of course, anytime.
pay 50€ for a 10 hours short graphics trip, that cant even be sold on after i finish it? no thank you.

just as the music industry, gaming companies nowadays hurt themselves by creating crap in bulk. and because most is crap, most 'pirates' would not pay for the game they 'pirate' either way. if they play it or not does not make a huge difference for the companies.

Originally posted by nattius
The whole "I only pirate because I couldn't afford/wouldnt have bought" line is B.S too. Do you go steal cars and mug old ladys for the same reasons? Sure game prices can be a rip off, doesn't make the above reasons anymore legit though.

When you steal a car or mug an old lady someone actually loses something. When you copy a game what does anyone lose? If the people who pirated the game couldn't afford it or wouldn't have bought it there could never have been a sale to begin with. The developer did not lose a sale to piracy, they never had the sale. All that piracy did was allow more people to play the game then would have been possible otherwise.

Are you mad at the people who pirate because you really believe the developer is losing money or is it because it's not fair that you paid for a crappy game and they did not? Why should they have played for free and you paid?

Originally posted by nattius
If you didn't use pirated games you'd either a) pay for something that people said was good or b) play something F2P. Can't see many people sitting there twiddling their thumbs so go do one of them, just don't sit there giving crappy justifications for pirating. You pirate because you want it and can't afford it. Sure maybe its overpriced, but that's not your call. If your mate is selling his games off for £10 and you only think its worth 8 you don't go and steal it from him. Difference is its a big company so its ok. Sure its not going to hurt them all that much. Just don't make excuses, you stole because you wanted it and didn't want to pay the asking price.

It has nothing to do with it being a big company or not. If the person was not going to buy it that company would have never had a sale so there is nothing to lose. You tell me what did they lose?

"Bad Spock wrote:

We were talking about why users/customers had become SO adverse to spending even the smallest amount of money for their IT/computer/technical needs."

Software costs alot more today and concerning games I feel despite improvements in graphics and gameplay the value has dropped. In the 1980's I could get a game for something like £2 and it would last me a month or more, sure the graphics sucked by todays standards along with the gameplay but by the standards of the time it was decent. Today to purchase a similar game it would cost me £20 - £30 and the game would last me for a day to a week at most before I bin it.

So in 25 years I've seen a price increase of 1000 - 1500% with a significant increase in the visual and playability value to match the price hike but lifespan has dramaticly dropped off. They make computer games with the same philosophy as they make washing machines or other home appliances. They construct it to last past the warranty but no longer, after the warranty is up they want it to fail so that you'll be forced to purchase a new one.

Then you get some suit telling you that the reason a AAA title costs £50 is that they have to make money back for all the piracy and it hurts the consumer. What a heap of BS, how many McDonalds or Pizza Huts got robbed last year? I wonder what the response would be if they increased the price of a Big Mac by 1500% on the cost 25 years ago and blamed armed armed robbers and company employees stealing? Well they'd sell no burgers unless all the other burger chains agreed to hike their prices too ... but that'd make me a crazy conspiracy nut wouldn't it?

Well until things change I'm not paying £50 for 1 day of shitty entertainment that I could've got for nothing that's what prostitutes are for!

Originally posted by nattius
Just comes back to what I said, you want it but don't want to pay the asking price for it. Who lost out is irrelevant. I'm not too bothered about the moral ethics of stealing without loss, just bored of the excuses. Stand up proud for your crime! Say it with me. "I stole because I want it and didn't want to pay for it."

I'm a criminal and proud of it!

"Why buy the cake when you can have a slice for free?" - Joan Collins

Just reading a person saying "i pirate games because I dont want to pay for them" is pretty damn boring and kind of obvious. I want to know why they don't want to pay for them. There is a big difference between excuses and reasons even if we end up at the same place in the end.

If a buzz about a games good I'll buy it or wait a bit for price drop then buy,I' won't bother with a game at all when the gamer buzz talk in its negative. The only time I'll bit torrent an ISO for game is if I've lost or broke my DVD,but still have the case and the key. The last one I did was The Witcher 2 as I had a faulty disk 1 and couldn't be assed to wait for it to replaced so just bit torrented the ISO for disk one, so not all downloading is for illegal means.

Originally posted by nattius

The whole "I only pirate because I couldn't afford/wouldnt have bought" line is B.S too. Do you go steal cars and mug old ladys for the same reasons? Sure game prices can be a rip off, doesn't make the above reasons anymore legit though.

 

this is total BS. if you want to steal i car you will have to know more stuff than if you pirate a game. the punishment if caught are also that much bigger.

i used to buy games all the time, until the gaming industry became big business and started to shoot out crappy games all the time. if you get disappointed soooo many times people will start to pirate instead.

Originally posted by adam_nox

uh no.  whether or not you are allowed to 'test' or trial something is at the sole discretion of the seller/manufacturer, not as some sort of delusion of civil righteousness.

And you really have no problem with this? You only take what morsels those companies feed you, and buy their game without a "test drive" to test for yourself if the game holds everything the company promises? Because those companies are so trustworthy, everything their marketing departments throw at you must be true. I mean, if they lie to you, they are accountable, right?

(They are not).

And that is why I reserve the right to check out what I spend my money on before I spend it. The companies show us what they want us to see. And don't think for a second that those review sites and magazines are unbiased. I used to work for one.

Now, don't get me wrong. I want to pay for games that are worth their money. I may even purchase two copies (or a CE) if I really like a game.

Long story short: I don't pirate. I make use of a "loan" by a stranger to see if the games makes good on its promises (a few years ago, I would borrow a game, and get my own copy - that's often no longer possible thanks to DRM, though). If it does, I will purchase it. If it doesn't, I won't.

Which means that the only "piracing" going on on my part is the imagined money a company would have gotten from me if they had succeeded in deceiving a customer (me, that is).

Originally posted by Mueslinator

Originally posted by adam_nox

uh no.  whether or not you are allowed to 'test' or trial something is at the sole discretion of the seller/manufacturer, not as some sort of delusion of civil righteousness.

 

And you really have no problem with this? You only take what morsels those companies feed you, and buy their game without a "test drive" to test for yourself if the game holds everything the company promises? Because those companies are so trustworthy, everything their marketing departments throw at you must be true. I mean, if they lie to you, they are accountable, right?

(They are not).

And that is why I reserve the right to check out what I spend my money on before I spend it. The companies show us what they want us to see. And don't think for a second that those review sites and magazines are unbiased. I used to work for one.

Now, don't get me wrong. I want to pay for games that are worth their money. I may even purchase two copies (or a CE) if I really like a game.

Long story short: I don't pirate. I make use of a "loan" by a stranger to see if the games makes good on its promises (a few years ago, I would borrow a game, and get my own copy - that's often no longer possible thanks to DRM, though). If it does, I will purchase it. If it doesn't, I won't.

 

Which means that the only "piracing" going on on my part is the imagined money a company would have gotten from me if they had succeeded in deceiving a customer (me, that is).

I completely agree with this, my thoughts and views exactly. 

I pirate games because it's too expensive. I earn not enough to pay $50 for two hours of mediocre entertainment. I also don't see any reason to not pirate games.

I don't harm anyone, because if I haven't pirated a game I would not buy it anyway, so nobody lost any money because I've pirated a game. Why wouldn't I buy them? Because I can't afford them. Same goes for movies and music, by the way. I've pirated 4 or 5 games in the last month. None of them kept my interest for more than an hour before being uninstalled. I've downloaded one movie last month and deleted it half way through it. I knew that that's what likely would happen; I wouldn't have bought those games anyway.

What are the downsides of pirating games? There are none. Companies will not make the games anymore? Yeah, good riddance, I don't care. I'm losing the interest to play even pirated games.

There are some games I liked, but I still haven't bought them, because why buy, when I can play for free? And if those weren't available for free, I wouldn't bought them anyway, because I would likely have not discovered that they were good, and wouldn't spend money. Like recent Heroes of MM6. So I've downloaded it, played it for, like, 2 hours, unistalled it. Buy it? Yeah, suuure. I don't want it for free, why buy it? Or Tropico 4. Now that's a good one. I've enjoyed it, for couple of weeks. But I will not pay $40 for it, because I've already played it through, so why waste money? And if I hadn't pirated it, I would still not buy it, because how would I know that it's good? So I wouldn't buy it.

So, what is the reason for me not to pirate games, but buy them? There is none. None whatsoever. I don't feel like I harm anyone, so "guilt trip" will not work on me. I feel no need to support the industry, because I have no interest in industry's survival. I receive nothing I consider of value in exchange for money that I can't get for free.

I've actually bought some games lately, because they were sold for, like, $2 per game and they were fun - Total War series, through Steam. I've put money into some online games like TF2 and WoT, because I really enjoy them and the money spent increased my enjoyment, so I considered it worth it.

Punishments for piracy? It may lower the amount of games downloaded, it will rise the amount of games bought, but never even close to the numbers of downloads.

Originally posted by Grahor

. I feel no need to support the industry, because I have no interest in industry's survival.

Then dont take part in the industry full stop ... you dont support the industry so dont use its output.

Originally posted by Tetters

Originally posted by Grahor

. I feel no need to support the industry, because I have no interest in industry's survival.

Then dont take part in the industry full stop ... you dont support the industry so dont use its output.

Why? What's the reason for me to not use the industry other than the cries of outrage of people I don't give two ...s about?

Anyway, I've played, may be, 10 hours total in the last month, of pirated games. Does it look like I use its output? That's the point: I don't use it, and neither does the majority of other pirates. They download the game, install it, say "boring cr...p" and uninstall. This is exactly the reason I don't support the industry: because I don't use it.

P.S. By the way, even if I "use the industry", like in the case with Tropico, what's the reason for me not to us it? "Guilt trip"? Sorry, don't feel anything like that. Please, find another.

I think property owners have a right to protect their property how they see fit. However that wont stop me from stealing their stuff if I feel their price is too high, and the risk is low. There really isnt an argument here. Stealing is wrong. Im a criminal.

Indeed. When you get something of value without paying anything to those who produced this value, it's a crime. It's theft. That's why when you buy a used Lego toy from eBay instead of buying a brand new from Lego store, you get the toy, but the producer of the toy gets nothing! You are a criminal. There is no way around it.

It's very simple. Every time you enjoy the value without paying the producer of that value, you steal. Game re-selleres, toys resellers, users car resalers... You are all criminals, the whole bunch of you. There is no way around it.

Sure, tradition allows us to actually steal things that way without suffering the stigma of being dirty thief that you are... But the principle doesn't change. You enjoy some value without paying the producer for that value.

just another FYI, the whole comment on "validation service" i.e. Steam is so easy to bypass that it's not even funny. Also anyone who can copy-paste files into folders with a little googling can d/l install, and bypass validaiton services. 

See what bothers me in articles on this website, is that so often the people who write them are simply uninformed. 

Just my 2 cents. 

Originally posted by Agricola1

"Bad Spock wrote:

We were talking about why users/customers had become SO adverse to spending even the smallest amount of money for their IT/computer/technical needs."

 

Software costs alot more today and concerning games I feel despite improvements in graphics and gameplay the value has dropped. In the 1980's I could get a game for something like £2 and it would last me a month or more, sure the graphics sucked by todays standards along with the gameplay but by the standards of the time it was decent. Today to purchase a similar game it would cost me £20 - £30 and the game would last me for a day to a week at most before I bin it.

So in 25 years I've seen a price increase of 1000 - 1500% with a significant increase in the visual and playability value to match the price hike but lifespan has dramaticly dropped off. They make computer games with the same philosophy as they make washing machines or other home appliances. They construct it to last past the warranty but no longer, after the warranty is up they want it to fail so that you'll be forced to purchase a new one.

Then you get some suit telling you that the reason a AAA title costs £50 is that they have to make money back for all the piracy and it hurts the consumer. What a heap of BS, how many McDonalds or Pizza Huts got robbed last year? I wonder what the response would be if they increased the price of a Big Mac by 1500% on the cost 25 years ago and blamed armed armed robbers and company employees stealing? Well they'd sell no burgers unless all the other burger chains agreed to hike their prices too ... but that'd make me a crazy conspiracy nut wouldn't it?

Well until things change I'm not paying £50 for 1 day of shitty entertainment that I could've got for nothing that's what prostitutes are for!

Although I think it's more like £30-£40+ now, (with £130 for collectors edition!!!) then you have to add all the down-load-content, drm so there's a good chance what you buy may not even work and if it does you'll likely  have  valve spying on what you are doing.

Having said that piracy can be a big problem for small studios even to the risk that they may go bust.

FYI online drm make no differance to piracy before anyone says it's why you have to put up with it.