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News & Features Discussion  » General: Game Piracy is B.S.

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301 posts found
  bakagami

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 169

10/14/11 11:22:11 AM#221

Originally posted by bakagami




Originally posted by Mr.Coyote











Originally posted by bakagami

















If I cracked it the way YOU whould then yeah I'd have a problem, but I use a modded CMOS






















 


















 




ok, BIOS.  tomato/tomato




 





 




ok, that's not really what I do, sounds impressive tho. I actually paid $20 for a win7ultimate key on ebay.  it's long since been blacklisted but I still use it & reload my operating system.  I actually have a custom bios for my MB but have never been brave enough to try it out. lol



  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1991

10/14/11 11:28:16 AM#222

Paging Dr. Lawrence Kohlberg! 


 


I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2509

10/14/11 12:08:38 PM#223

I buy all my games a friend of mine dl all games illegally he never payed for any of his games ever. Thats in my book STEALING.

I know few small game companys like IRONLORE (Titan Quest) who where bankrupt becouse most of there game was illegally downloaded.

And iron lore is not the only one. Sure maybe big boys still earn alot cash but many smaller ones will bankrupt if there game is downloaded by THIEFS/CRIMINALS.

Who cares about diablo its made by Blizzard a money grabbing bastard company, im more concerned with small indie companys who make great games but are at risk by these pirate sites.

I think your topic is rather dumb, becouse its in your own intrest piratesites should be left alone, so you can keep stealing games/movies/music or software for your PC as my friend do, i estimate he steals for at least over 1000euro prolly more a year.

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  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16469

10/14/11 12:19:22 PM#224
Originally posted by forest-nl

I buy all my games a friend of mine dl all games illegally he never payed for any of his games ever. Thats in my book STEALING.

I know few small game companys like IRONLORE (Titan Quest) who where bankrupt becouse most of there game was illegally downloaded.

And iron lore is not the only one. Sure maybe big boys still earn alot cash but many smaller ones will bankrupt if there game is downloaded by THIEFS/CRIMINALS.

Who cares about diablo its made by Blizzard a money grabbing bastard company, im more concerned with small indie companys who make great games but are at risk by these pirate sites.

I think your topic is rather dumb, becouse its in your own intrest piratesites should be left alone, so you can keep stealing games/movies/music or software for your PC as my friend do, i estimate he steals for at least over 1000euro prolly more a year.

When you are stealing something the owner don't have it left. This is also wrong of course but more a case of copyright fraud, and slightly better.

Piracy have indeed hurt some companys badly. I remember the game Gianna sisters that were pulled back after a week due to a court decision (it was too close the super Mario bros). Everybody had it and closed to no one paid for it.

But computer piracy is lowest ever now and not the problem it used to be 20 years ago. 

  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

10/14/11 12:25:37 PM#225

If I loan the same movie out to 50 people, it's different from burning 50 copies and giving those away because 1.  Not everyone can watch it at the same time, and those who have to wait their turn might very well go buy the movie instead.  2.  The original, purchased movie is likely to get lost in the process and never make it around to 50 people anyway. 

As for loaning it to one person who then views it with 49 people, how many people can fit 50 into their living room? 

If you went out and rented a movie theater and showed a movie to 50 of your friends, I'm not sure what the law would say, but I imagine if you did it once, without trying to profit, you wouldn't be sued, much less charged with any crime, because it wouldn't be worth it to the company and it would certainly be bad publicity.  If you tried to charge money for it, however, you would probably not get away with it, or at least not very often, because then you and others who witnessed your profitable example would have motivation to keep renting out that theater and showing that movie.

As for friends and family vs strangers, what is the motive of someone copying a movie for a friend or family member?  Non-profit and not to do harm to the company or deprive it of profit, or at least that's a fair assumption.  It's simply an act of kindness toward a loved one.  What is the motivation for sharing a movie with 10,000 strangers on the internet, though? 

The only problem with the first part of yor post is that you are only dealing in the details not the main subject. This is all hypothetical. It doesn't matter if I can or can not fit 50 people in to my living room. It doesn't matter if the original purchase gets lost or not and it does not matter if everyone can watch it at the same time. It is a matter of one copy being purchased and 50 people watching it for free. Even the amount of people really does not matter 50 or 50,000. If you are of the opinion that piracy is wrong the amount of people involved should never matter. Something does not become right or wrong depending on the number of people.

The second part of your post involves renting a theater. This happens all the time for birthdays or events. Now renting the theater and then trying to charge people just wouldn't work and I'm pretty sure its illegal. I am against people profiting off of pirated content. I always have been and so are all of the people that pirate that I know of. I have never known anyone who has made money from doing it although I am sure there are many that do. Once you profit from it you cross the line. You are then taking money away from the people who created the product. You are taking away paying cutomers and that is wrong.

The third part talks about motive. Well what is the motive of people who do not profit from pirating games? Why would it have to be any different from someone who does it for friends or family. A lot of pirating groups see themselves as part of the gaming community. Maybe thats why they do it. Maybe they do it just because they can. They do not do it for profit though. Not the ones I know of.

 

  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

10/14/11 12:58:58 PM#226
Lets make this easy, and start from scratch.

Thats the problem..there is no easy answer no matter where we start from. 

Stealing is wrong. Yes?  Can we agree on that?  If I go take your car its wrong.  If I go take a car from the manufacturer its wrong.  If I buy a car its right.  Done, nuff said.

No. Stealing is only wrong depending on the circumstances and the perception of the people involved. Look through out history and tell me I am wrong. 

If you don't have enough money for a car,  you don't get the car. Right?  If you borrow a friends car,  they no longer have that car in their possession,  you have it,  therefore there is 1 car, that 2 people have used. 

But what if I could make a copy of that car? If I had a magic cloning device? Would that still be stealing? The guy has his car that he paid for so the company that made the car also made money. I did not steal anything because no one lost anything.

 Simple enough, right?

So far...no.  If only it was that black and white.

 

You can sit in the car while your friend drives, or you can drive the car while your friend sits in it, or it could be one of those silly cars where both driver and passenger have steering wheels and breaks and gas pedals and you can both drive together,  but at the end of the day,  one person owns the car, the other does not.

 

Do we understand how ownership works?  If you could duplicate the exact model car and give it away for free at no cost, name it the same, have all features the same,  even use the manufactureres same employees and plants to build the cars,  but have every car hotwired so the manufacturers laser cut keys no longer protect the cars,  the manufacturer would see something wrong with that, don't you think?  You are taking their work,  what they did,  and giving it away at no cost.  The company loses.

Well yes at the point where I am using the labor and plants of the car company. Then they are losing money by me using their people and equipment to actually build cars. This is a pretty unrealistic example though I know where you are going with it. It is probably the worst example I have seen yet.

I know,  hard to understand right?  What if that car is a ford and you don't buy fords?  But its free, so you'll take it, right?  You weren't going to buy it anyway,  you don't have the money,  and since they weren't going to get your business its okay to just, take a car.  Its stealing.  Remember up there, where stealing is wrong?  You can't rationalize it.  Stealing is wrong.  Pirating is stealing.  Thats all there is to it.

We will go back to the stealing part. What am I stealing? Does Ford still have their cars? Does Ford still have the ability to sell their cars? Did I stop the progress of Ford at all by cloning a car? 

If you are going to use cars then I would say that my cloned car is not as good as the ford. I can not get my car serviced, I can only drive on a limited amount of roads, I can not put accessories on my car, and I can only fit one person in my car unless I go find a private road. The real car will also in all likely hood go faster and run better. My cloned car also has the potential of exploding or just not working from the get go.

If it wasn't "wrong" in moral standards,  its still "wrong" in societal standards, which then is "wrong" in legal standards too.  Stealing is as wrong as, say, using your neighbors wi-fi.  You aren't paying for it,  you don't have the money for it,  and since your neighbors encryption is so easy to crack, why not steal it?  Thats not wrong is it?  Well, actually, yes it is, very much so, and its the same thing here.

You see that is only your perception. As another poster said it is not illegal in his country to download pirated games. I believe he said it was only illegal to profit from them. So his country must have a lesser moral standards than yours, the standards of his society are lower than yours, and his legal system is inferior to yours. You must be American. 

Just wrap it up,  stealing internet service is wrong,  stealing cable is wrong, stealing songs, stealing games,  ponies, cars, people, guitars, lemons, taco trucks, website domain names, lobster bisque.  Stealing all those things are wrong whether you have the money to buy them or not.  Twist it how you want,  companies do lose money when you steal shit.  If you want it enough to steal it,  then you'll buy it.  Thats all.

None of those things can compare to pirated games and you know it. They are completely different much like your car example that I indulged you with. In your mind stealing is stealing and thats bad mmmmkay. The world is not as simple as that. I'm sorry you really can not see the differences. You see when you steal any of those other things people actually lose something. When you pirate a game it does not hurt anyone and indeed there are many cases where it has actually helped them.

 

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

10/14/11 2:07:18 PM#227
Originally posted by GreenHell
 

 

 

You'll never understand that taking software is wrong. Lets address your questions because people obviously don't understand:

First:

Stealing is only wrong depending on the circumstances and the perception of the people involved. Look through out history and tell me I am wrong. 

You are wrong.

 

But what if I could make a copy of that car? If I had a magic cloning device? Would that still be stealing?

 

Yes. It would.  You didn't design the car, you didn't pay for the engineers to design it, you didn't crash test it or give it ratings, you didn't spend money on advertising and production. You stole their designs,  one of the reasons pattent laws are what they are. Litigation from such is very big right now.

 

We will go back to the stealing part. What am I stealing? Does Ford still have their cars? Does Ford still have the ability to sell their cars? Did I stop the progress of Ford at all by cloning a car? 

 

You stole a car that you did not pay for.  Thats what you stole.  You took the exact car, which was against the law and against most peoples morals (to create an exact copy of something that you didn't create and not give the creators their credit or compensation).  If you did not have another option to steal it, you would have had to buy it. Case closed.  No "I can borrow it from a friend"  well your friend had to buy it, and its still 1 purchased copy no matter how many times you play it, or if you sell it afterwards.

 

As another poster said it is not illegal in his country to download pirated games.

I'd like to know what country that is.  You hear a lot of bullshit on these forums.  "My country doesn't care if you steal software"  Well, in a country like albania or something yeah, I'm sure theres plenty of things that aren't considered illegal having to do with intellectual properties and patents.  Doesn't mean its right morally, or that a company even considers that country a market for the games people are stealing.   

 

 

None of those things can compare to pirated games and you know it.     ...       You see when you steal any of those other things people actually lose something. When you pirate a game it does not hurt anyone and indeed there are many cases where it has actually helped them.

 

Actually, all of those things compare.  The company still loses something.  They lose customers.  While everyone wants to pretend "Oh if I pirate the game, I'll just buy it later." What a load of crap and everyone who pirates knows it.  You can try a trial for a game,  not steal the damn thing,  and furthermore if you already have a full working version, you aren't going to buy it.   Where are you statistics?   Everyone says how Pirating games HELPS developers,  but I can't seem to find anything talking about how awesome pirating games happens to be for developers.  In fact,  I see the opposite quite a bit:

http://www.cracked.com/article_19162_6-hilarious-ways-game-designers-are-screwing-with-pirates.html

http://www.insidegamingdaily.com/2010/12/29/the-most-pirated-games-of-2010/

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/07/15/developer-frustrated-over-game-center-use-by-pirates/

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-30-how-bad-is-pc-piracy-really-article

http://www.wired.com/techbiz/media/news/2005/12/69785

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-04-17/entertainment/online.piracy.for.against_1_file-sharing-online-piracy-pirate-bay?_s=PM:SHOWBIZ

 

And of course I could keep going all day.

 

Some interesting notes... Dantes inferno was pirated much more than it sold.  Projections stated football manager would have doubled in sales had they not have had to worry about piracy.  In some cases they are saying that piracy rates are up to 90% of the title,  that means overall sales are only 10% of the games overall potential if they didn't have pirates stealing copies to play them.

 

But you're saying "but they wouldn't have bought them anyways"  yeah,  well take into consideration  over 1 million people stole dantes inferno,  you don't think that if they couldn't steal it that at least 10K of those people wouldn't have just buckled and bought the game within 6 months instead of never buying it?   

 

Heres a good one from the "proponents" of piracy:

http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1184546p1.html

but if you read closely:

""If the game gets pirated heavily, if it's a good game that people really like, they're going to either buy it eventually or they're going to tell other people about it. Either way it's just going to come back to a sale." "  but later ...

"There's a strange paradox going on here. Because although these guys believe piracy is a good thing, its utility as a marketing tool partly depends on people feeling guilty about the act of stealing. "

 

And another "piracy may be good" article, lots of caveats and theories,  but nothing in practice:

http://torrentfreak.com/good-pirates-help-businesses-sell-more-product-080324/

"Many pirates say that they would never have bought much of the stuff they downloaded or copied. If you fall into this category, you might be a ‘good’ or ‘promotional’ pirate. " But no real information to back it up other than : “Building a theoretical model of `promotional piracy’,” says Croxson, “it is possible to distinguish markets that are best advised to put considerable resource into safeguarding their products from others which may live quite comfortably with a higher incidence of digital piracy.”

 

 

 

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  Gennerall

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 47

10/14/11 2:14:44 PM#228

http://thepiratebay.org/top/401

 

almost 18,000 people downloading Bethsedas new release, rage, from one site alone...even if it doesn't cause the game companies to directly bleed profits, I wouldn't quite call piracy B.S

  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

10/14/11 3:10:26 PM#229
You are wrong.

 Well if Im wrong I guess I am in good company then. History proves me correct your morales wont allow you to see the truth.

Yes. It would.  You didn't design the car, you didn't pay for the engineers to design it, you didn't crash test it or give it ratings, you didn't spend money on advertising and production. You stole their designs,  one of the reasons pattent laws are what they are. Litigation from such is very big right now.

and what did I do with their designs? Did I profit from them in anyway..no. If I get the recipe for KFC chicken and make it at home am I going to get sued? Am I a thief? If I feed that chicken to my guests are they theives too? How about all of the websites that tell you how to make it they must be wrong as well.  I didn't do any testing on the chicken, or marketing. According to you I stole their recipes. Lets be honest here you used cars to try and use value as a weapon. A car is worth a lot more than a game or a chicken. When we bring it down to fast food it just doesn't seem like such a big deal. Hell you should have used space shuttles as an example instead.

You stole a car that you did not pay for.  Thats what you stole.  You took the exact car, which was against the law and against most peoples morals (to create an exact copy of something that you didn't create and not give the creators their credit or compensation).  If you did not have another option to steal it, you would have had to buy it. Case closed.  No "I can borrow it from a friend"  well your friend had to buy it, and its still 1 purchased copy no matter how many times you play it, or if you sell it afterwards.

No I did not steal anything. How many times do we have to go through this? In order for it to be considered theft someone has to actually lose something. What do they lose?

 I'd like to know what country that is.  You hear a lot of bullshit on these forums.  "My country doesn't care if you steal software"  Well, in a country like albania or something yeah, I'm sure theres plenty of things that aren't considered illegal having to do with intellectual properties and patents.  Doesn't mean its right morally, or that a company even considers that country a market for the games people are stealing.   

 I'm sure he is wrong because his one point that I bring up doesn't agree with your sense of morales. Even though when you find his post I believe he is actually anti-pirating. Imagine an anti-pirate person coming from some 3rd world country that is so morally inferior to yours. Gasp!

Actually, all of those things compare.  The company still loses something.  They lose customers.  While everyone wants to pretend "Oh if I pirate the game, I'll just buy it later." What a load of crap and everyone who pirates knows it.  

You lose credibility here. Since you are morally superior to anyone who pirates you must also be able to read minds and see in to the lives of everyone who pirates. Want me to tell you whats crap? The soapbox you stand on with your book of morales in one hand and your scepter of ignorance in the other.

You can try a trial for a game,  not steal the damn thing,  and furthermore if you already have a full working version, you aren't going to buy it.   Where are you statistics?   Everyone says how Pirating games HELPS developers,  but I can't seem to find anything talking about how awesome pirating games happens to be for developers.  In fact,  I see the opposite quite a bit:

you obviously did not read the quotes I left in another post from people at microsoft. People who are against pirating. Thats ok though. It doesn't matter that with out pirating Microsoft really didn't have a chance in hell of getting windows established in china. Bah they are a small country anyways. Ok Im sure thats only one example and there are no other examples to ever be found. Maybe no examples that companies would actually want known anyways.

And of course I could keep going all day.

Im sure you could. I could also find stories about aliens abducting ugly southern woman until the end of time. Does it make it more factual or are you reading what the industry as a whole wants you to believe? You have been told its wrong and its hurting developers. Little developer babies are dieing from starvation. Will you believe whatever the major media throws at you with out ever questioning it.

Some interesting notes... Dantes inferno was pirated much more than it sold.  Projections stated football manager would have doubled in sales had they not have had to worry about piracy.  In some cases they are saying that piracy rates are up to 90% of the title,  that means overall sales are only 10% of the games overall potential if they didn't have pirates stealing copies to play them.

Where do they get all of these glorious numbers from? How do they know? They really can't. I guess the Dantes Inferno Big Brother is always watching"  Projections stated" yes and projections have NEVER been wrong..blame the pirates. it has to be there fault. Your numbers have no way of being accurate.

But you're saying "but they wouldn't have bought them anyways"  yeah,  well take into consideration  over 1 million people stole dantes inferno,  you don't think that if they couldn't steal it that at least 10K of those people wouldn't have just buckled and bought the game within 6 months instead of never buying it?   

I still challenge the validity of the numbers.

 "This may be due to the fact that in order to pirate 360 games, you have to mod your system which cuts it off from Xbox Live. That’s the only explanation I can come up with as to why Dante’s Inferno and Alan Wake top the 360 list."

This is how you determine a game is pirated? You just go "hey that 360 isn't online they must be pirates and of course they are playing Dantes Inferno" This does not seem like an accurate system to me. I own a 360 and have never pirated a game for it. I only connect my 360 to the internet for updates. Yes I must be playing Dantes. The evidence can not be argued!

 I challenge every number you post. You tell me how they prove it. You tell me how you prove that every leacher on pirate bay would buy the game..better yet prove to me that they wont after playing it.

 

 

 

 

 

  Mundus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/05
Posts: 237

10/14/11 3:52:49 PM#230

Originally posted by Gennerall

http://thepiratebay.org/top/401


 


almost 18,000 people downloading Bethsedas new release, rage, from one site alone...even if it doesn't cause the game companies to directly bleed profits, I wouldn't quite call piracy B.S



 


I wish I had downloaded it. Unfortunately I bought it and I regret it. Weak gameplay. Non-existing story. Graphics problems on PC and PS3 at least. Not worth my money.S


So yes, in this case me pirating the game would've actually 'hurt' ZeniMax. Though they'd deserve it for this game.


  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7264

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

10/14/11 4:35:16 PM#231
Originally posted by GreenHell
You are wrong.

 Well if Im wrong I guess I am in good company then. History proves me correct your morales wont allow you to see the truth.

Yes. It would.  You didn't design the car, you didn't pay for the engineers to design it, you didn't crash test it or give it ratings, you didn't spend money on advertising and production. You stole their designs,  one of the reasons pattent laws are what they are. Litigation from such is very big right now.

and what did I do with their designs? Did I profit from them in anyway..no. If I get the recipe for KFC chicken and make it at home am I going to get sued? Am I a thief? If I feed that chicken to my guests are they theives too? How about all of the websites that tell you how to make it they must be wrong as well.  I didn't do any testing on the chicken, or marketing. According to you I stole their recipes. Lets be honest here you used cars to try and use value as a weapon. A car is worth a lot more than a game or a chicken. When we bring it down to fast food it just doesn't seem like such a big deal. Hell you should have used space shuttles as an example instead.

You stole a car that you did not pay for.  Thats what you stole.  You took the exact car, which was against the law and against most peoples morals (to create an exact copy of something that you didn't create and not give the creators their credit or compensation).  If you did not have another option to steal it, you would have had to buy it. Case closed.  No "I can borrow it from a friend"  well your friend had to buy it, and its still 1 purchased copy no matter how many times you play it, or if you sell it afterwards.

No I did not steal anything. How many times do we have to go through this? In order for it to be considered theft someone has to actually lose something. What do they lose?

 I'd like to know what country that is.  You hear a lot of bullshit on these forums.  "My country doesn't care if you steal software"  Well, in a country like albania or something yeah, I'm sure theres plenty of things that aren't considered illegal having to do with intellectual properties and patents.  Doesn't mean its right morally, or that a company even considers that country a market for the games people are stealing.   

 I'm sure he is wrong because his one point that I bring up doesn't agree with your sense of morales. Even though when you find his post I believe he is actually anti-pirating. Imagine an anti-pirate person coming from some 3rd world country that is so morally inferior to yours. Gasp!

Actually, all of those things compare.  The company still loses something.  They lose customers.  While everyone wants to pretend "Oh if I pirate the game, I'll just buy it later." What a load of crap and everyone who pirates knows it.  

You lose credibility here. Since you are morally superior to anyone who pirates you must also be able to read minds and see in to the lives of everyone who pirates. Want me to tell you whats crap? The soapbox you stand on with your book of morales in one hand and your scepter of ignorance in the other.

You can try a trial for a game,  not steal the damn thing,  and furthermore if you already have a full working version, you aren't going to buy it.   Where are you statistics?   Everyone says how Pirating games HELPS developers,  but I can't seem to find anything talking about how awesome pirating games happens to be for developers.  In fact,  I see the opposite quite a bit:

you obviously did not read the quotes I left in another post from people at microsoft. People who are against pirating. Thats ok though. It doesn't matter that with out pirating Microsoft really didn't have a chance in hell of getting windows established in china. Bah they are a small country anyways. Ok Im sure thats only one example and there are no other examples to ever be found. Maybe no examples that companies would actually want known anyways.

And of course I could keep going all day.

Im sure you could. I could also find stories about aliens abducting ugly southern woman until the end of time. Does it make it more factual or are you reading what the industry as a whole wants you to believe? You have been told its wrong and its hurting developers. Little developer babies are dieing from starvation. Will you believe whatever the major media throws at you with out ever questioning it.

Some interesting notes... Dantes inferno was pirated much more than it sold.  Projections stated football manager would have doubled in sales had they not have had to worry about piracy.  In some cases they are saying that piracy rates are up to 90% of the title,  that means overall sales are only 10% of the games overall potential if they didn't have pirates stealing copies to play them.

Where do they get all of these glorious numbers from? How do they know? They really can't. I guess the Dantes Inferno Big Brother is always watching"  Projections stated" yes and projections have NEVER been wrong..blame the pirates. it has to be there fault. Your numbers have no way of being accurate.

But you're saying "but they wouldn't have bought them anyways"  yeah,  well take into consideration  over 1 million people stole dantes inferno,  you don't think that if they couldn't steal it that at least 10K of those people wouldn't have just buckled and bought the game within 6 months instead of never buying it?   

I still challenge the validity of the numbers.

 "This may be due to the fact that in order to pirate 360 games, you have to mod your system which cuts it off from Xbox Live. That’s the only explanation I can come up with as to why Dante’s Inferno and Alan Wake top the 360 list."

This is how you determine a game is pirated? You just go "hey that 360 isn't online they must be pirates and of course they are playing Dantes Inferno" This does not seem like an accurate system to me. I own a 360 and have never pirated a game for it. I only connect my 360 to the internet for updates. Yes I must be playing Dantes. The evidence can not be argued!

 I challenge every number you post. You tell me how they prove it. You tell me how you prove that every leacher on pirate bay would buy the game..better yet prove to me that they wont after playing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 Well if Im wrong I guess I am in good company then. History proves me correct your morales wont allow you to see the truth.

I might be more apt to agree with at least your instances of such if you actually... y'know.. posted some examples. But as you have provided none and made nothing but a blanket statement. You are wrong.

 

and what did I do with their designs? Did I profit from them in anyway..no. If I get the recipe for KFC chicken and make it at home am I going to get sued? Am I a thief?

If the recipe is a copyright, or you say "This is KFCs chicken recipe" when you serve it which is a trademark, yeah you could get sued.   The original recipe is a secret of sorts for the company,  you can guess at it with the amounts, etc,  but if you take that particular recipe, label it as KFC chicken (or even another type)  its likely you'll have a lawsuit on your hands.  It wouldn't be the first time for KFC to do that over their chicken recipe.

 

 It doesn't matter that with out pirating Microsoft really didn't have a chance in hell of getting windows established in china. Bah they are a small country anyways. Ok Im sure thats only one example and there are no other examples to ever be found. Maybe no examples that companies would actually want known anyways.

 

What doesn't matter is that, just because something is popular in a country that pirates,  doesn't mean it will be equally beneficial for the company in the long run.  As stated in the articles I provided,  more than 85% of software appears to be pirated in China and Russia.  Numbers are increasing across the board in pirating while you aren't seeing an overall increase in the purchase of software,  in fact,  sales have been dropping in game sales for a number of years,  eventhough this is in flux,  they fell quite a bit in 2010, and we've had some bad bouts here too,  yet piracy is growing at a steady rate.

 

Does it make it more factual or are you reading what the industry as a whole wants you to believe?

 

LOL oh man,  after this, I'm just going to stop arguing after this post.  You've lost every ounce of credibility that I saw in you, and the only reason I kept debating.  Because honestly, you provided absolutely no data.. I even posted articles from PROPONENTS  that STILL had caveats.   If anything you could have posted actual data to back up your statements or show the opposite,  or just noted that those may be good points for developer X but (and rattled off some more nonsense)  but instead you went the conspiracy theory route.

 

 Even companies who offer no DRM and don't even try to combat piracy, don't do it because they think piracy is a good idea,  they do it because paying consumers don't want DRM.   You've posted no statements to combat what I've stated or the numerous links with data that at least backs up my point,  and I could literally find hundreds more if I wanted,  and out of all of those articles,  its just "what the industry as a whole wants me to believe"?    This is the kind of rationality I'd expect from people who steal games.

 

 You just go "hey that 360 isn't online they must be pirates and of course they are playing Dantes Inferno" 

 

They could be basing it off of a lot of different data, not just who isn't online lol.  It could be the amount of downloads of the game from different IPs tracked from torrent sites,  it could be a series of users that tried to get online with a modded Xbox while in game.  Just stating that someone isn't on Xbox live is unlikely the way they are getting these numbers, especially since, all the numbers for xbox 360 would be the same across all titles if the data was collected at the same time.. using your method... which they are likely not using.

 

 I challenge every number you post. You tell me how they prove it. You tell me how you prove that every leacher on pirate bay would buy the game..better yet prove to me that they wont after playing it.

 

How about you prove to me that it increases sales first,  challenge every number I post if you want,  but its all in the links I've posted,  you want to challenge those numbers,  go talk to the people doing the research.  Long story short, piracy hurts companies more than it helps them. FACT.   If piracy was so great and everyone did it, game companies would lose revenue much more than they already do.

 

Its all because of entitlist, idiotic people who think that piracy is an easy going victimless (non)crime.   If you ask enough people in the industry, they'll be able to spell it out very simply what the increasing numbers of pirated copies of their works will do in the long run to their games.   In the future, it won't matter,  and thats why games are looking to different kinds of architectures,  such as consoles revolving around systems like onlive,  or requiring users to stay connected to the internet at all time as content is housed there, not to different from MMOs currently.

 

Soon, what used to be just a regular game you could play offline, will require online connections or other types of security that may seem cumbersome, but when companies see more profit from less people stealing their shit, it will become the norm.   

 

And as I stated, that will be my last post in regards to you specifically.  You've given no data, you go deaf and you blind yourself when any point is provided with statements from people in the industry,  and choose to believe conspiracies people tell you.... but in truth,  its only a matter of time before they finally snuff out PC piracy,  either through making torrents tougher to find, severe litigation against those who do it,  through combatting and blocking through coordination with ISPs,  through developers making content more secure, or housing in over the net...    and when it happens and we all suffer,  I guess we'll have pirates to thank for that.

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  GreenHell

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1341

10/14/11 7:35:46 PM#232

I might be more apt to agree with at least your instances of such if you actually... y'know.. posted some examples. But as you have provided none and made nothing but a blanket statement. You are wrong.

The colonization of the Americas is a perfect example of stealing and at the time the populace did not seem to think it was wrong. They lied to, cheated, stole, and killed the Native Americans to get this land. It was ok then.

 If the recipe is a copyright, or you say "This is KFCs chicken recipe" when you serve it which is a trademark, yeah you could get sued.   The original recipe is a secret of sorts for the company,  you can guess at it with the amounts, etc,  but if you take that particular recipe, label it as KFC chicken (or even another type)  its likely you'll have a lawsuit on your hands.  It wouldn't be the first time for KFC to do that over their chicken recipe.

Well then it is time for you to get out there and enlighten all of the chicken pirates with your superior morals. A quick google search on "how to make KFC chicken" came back with 998,000 results. Good luck with that. Did this secret recipe leak destroy KFC.. hardly. Any financial problems they have had nothing to do with the dreaded KFC secret recipe stealing thieves.

What doesn't matter is that, just because something is popular in a country that pirates,  doesn't mean it will be equally beneficial for the company in the long run.  As stated in the articles I provided,  more than 85% of software appears to be pirated in China and Russia.  Numbers are increasing across the board in pirating while you aren't seeing an overall increase in the purchase of software,  in fact,  sales have been dropping in game sales for a number of years,  eventhough this is in flux,  they fell quite a bit in 2010, and we've had some bad bouts here too,  yet piracy is growing at a steady rate.

You did not read the quotes I left. Thats ok though. It was all about profit in the long run. Ehh..what does Microsoft know? I'm sure you have a far superior intellect.

 LOL oh man,  after this, I'm just going to stop arguing after this post.  You've lost every ounce of credibility that I saw in you, and the only reason I kept debating.  Because honestly, you provided absolutely no data.. I even posted articles from PROPONENTS  that STILL had caveats.   If anything you could have posted actual data to back up your statements or show the opposite,  or just noted that those may be good points for developer X but (and rattled off some more nonsense)  but instead you went the conspiracy theory route.

Conspiracy theory are you kidding me ..seriously? If every game/software developer came out and said that piracy was not a problem and it was barely effecting them what would happen? It would become a much larger problem than what they may have. You dont believe they exaggerate numbers? Are you that blind? That much of a sheep? It is not a conspiracy it is common sense. You make something look much worse than it is so it does not become much worse than it is. You are painful. As far as credibility goes you lost all of that on the last post where you preaching on your soapbox about how everyone who pirates never buys the game...and I told you that.

 Even companies who offer no DRM and don't even try to combat piracy, don't do it because they think piracy is a good idea,  they do it because paying consumers don't want DRM.   You've posted no statements to combat what I've stated or the numerous links with data that at least backs up my point,  and I could literally find hundreds more if I wanted,  and out of all of those articles,  its just "what the industry as a whole wants me to believe"?    This is the kind of rationality I'd expect from people who steal games.

Did I ever say I stole games? Ahh we are in your black and white world so I must..thats right. Is it so impossible to you that the information you get may be skewed to get the results they are looking for? People like you are the reason this country is in the state it is in. Another sheep following the herd believeing whatever is told to them even if common sense could point in another direction. 

They could be basing it off of a lot of different data, not just who isn't online lol.  It could be the amount of downloads of the game from different IPs tracked from torrent sites,  it could be a series of users that tried to get online with a modded Xbox while in game.  Just stating that someone isn't on Xbox live is unlikely the way they are getting these numbers, especially since, all the numbers for xbox 360 would be the same across all titles if the data was collected at the same time.. using your method... which they are likely not using.

YOU are the one who so proudly posted all of those links and you do not know how they get their information? Yet you are 100% sure it is accurate. Wow. As far as the "using your method" comment goes it wasn't my method it was on one of your links that you posted but did not bother to read past the title. Way to go champ. 

How about you prove to me that it increases sales first,  challenge every number I post if you want,  but its all in the links I've posted,  you want to challenge those numbers,  go talk to the people doing the research.  Long story short, piracy hurts companies more than it helps them. FACT.   If piracy was so great and everyone did it, game companies would lose revenue much more than they already do.

Long story short you really have no idea if it hurts companies. You have no idea where they get their numbers, who gets these numbers, or any other fact besides they are on the internet to prove you are right. We all now everything on the internet is correct. Can I prove that piracy increases sales? Nope. No more than you can prove it hurts them.  I can tell you from experiences that I have witnessed and only from those experiences that it did cause the games to be bought on many, many occasions. Maybe everything I see is the exception to the rules and everything that you dont actually see but just read about has to be the norm. The internet does not lie.

Its all because of entitlist, idiotic people who think that piracy is an easy going victimless (non)crime.   If you ask enough people in the industry, they'll be able to spell it out very simply what the increasing numbers of pirated copies of their works will do in the long run to their games.   In the future, it won't matter,  and thats why games are looking to different kinds of architectures,  such as consoles revolving around systems like onlive,  or requiring users to stay connected to the internet at all time as content is housed there, not to different from MMOs currently.

 Well at least your morals do not stop you from insulting random people that you don't know. Way to go wrapping up everyone who disagrees with you in a tidy little box. So who are these people in the industry that you know? You have obviously asked enough people in the industry to get these "facts". There was a guy on here who said he was a published dev and he had no problem with piracy. Oh but thats right he is a liar because he posts on these forums. Only the media that you link but dont read can be right.

If piracy was such a big deal they could have used MMO architecures years ago. The technology has been around for awhile. I wonder why they havent. If they were losing so much money you would think that changing to an MMO type of system should be the norm by now. Yes it might piss of a few people and they wont buy it but surely the money gained from not having your game pirated would more than make up for it. Blizzard doesn't seem worried about losing sales. Why is everyone else? Could it be that Blizzard is doing it for more reasons than just piracy? No it cant be..just pirates.


And as I stated, that will be my last post in regards to you specifically.  You've given no data, you go deaf and you blind yourself when any point is provided with statements from people in the industry,  and choose to believe conspiracies people tell you.... but in truth,  its only a matter of time before they finally snuff out PC piracy,  either through making torrents tougher to find, severe litigation against those who do it,  through combatting and blocking through coordination with ISPs,  through developers making content more secure, or housing in over the net...    and when it happens and we all suffer,  I guess we'll have pirates to thank for that.

I am heart broken that we will not have a chance to discuss this again. I was so looking forward to more links that you post but dont fully read and more of your blind moral superiority. I dont believe in conspiracies. I do believe in common sense not blind faith. I do believe that people will believe anything they read on the internet when it justifies them but will tell you that you cant believe anything you read on the internet. I also believe you should watch more History channel and I believe when the police come to my house to watch me make chicken to ensure that it is not the KFC secret recipe that i will totally agree with you that piracy has ruined everything. Piracy has been around long before the internet and will contine to florish well in to the future. Your way of thinking is so black and white (not to mention hypocritical) that happily it will not last as long.

 

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

10/14/11 11:49:48 PM#233



Originally posted by Sovrath


Originally posted by Requiamer



Originally posted by Scot


Any thread about piracy brings out the idiots who think there is no such thing as ownership etc. Go and see what the real world is like, get a job and a life; don’t just rely on what you heard in Sociology 101 and can find on the internet.

 

 


Ownership is a concept thus cannot be found "in real life" as you seam to pretend, its not an apple or anything physical. As any concept it is subject to history of mankind, and history isn't writen in your job, or life, it is written in the knowledge of people as any other concept.
This naturally if you don't consider yourself as getting your knowledge directly from God in your real life, naturally


Of course it's a concept. It differs from cultures to cultures and from time period to time period.
Luckily we know where we are and what time period we are in.
For instance, if I take your car or occupy your house or use your pants you might say "I don't want you to do those things, you are not entitled to it.
Unless you live in a culture and country that is somewhat sequestered away or adheres to some sort of community idea of ownership or that idea that land can't be owned it would be safe to say that when someone uses the word ownership we all know what they mean and practice it in some way in our own lives.
Or do you just go into a store and take a few tV's and then start telling the manager about ownership as a concept.
They like that you know.

I'm sorry you just cannot caricature that concept that easily, it just doesn't work in practice.
I mean you can do just that if you want, that's what most people do anyway, but you might be confronted with serious disillusion if you think that way.


Ownership is not only what you decide it should be, 'im sorry, you need the consent of others too. Your ownership will be respected if that consensus is kept. If at anytime this consensus if broken you might loose what 'you' as a persona think is your in the favor of other people thinking it is not. And not only you need others to invalidate this, but others will also define what you can do or not do with or inside your possession.

Look at all the ways you might loose "your" house in matter of second because other people decide to stop this consensus. War, government needed your house for a military base, company finding a resource and getting support to kick you out, you wife divorcing...


There is a very strong notion of respect in what make yours or not. If other don't respect that for any reason, it might not be as much "yours" as you might think. But naturally you can keep leaving in your bubble all you want and ignore all this, i'm not the one who will fall if it explode, i hope for you it won't ever really, good luck with that. But you should keep somewhere behind you head that's its not as simple as that. I don't think courts and laws would have been so big in our societies if it was that simple.

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

10/15/11 12:00:51 AM#234

Personally I figure companies arent loosing nearly as much money as they seem to think they are due to piracy.   If suddenly a guy who loves to pirate stuff find out he cant pirate that particular game?  Well by golly he's going to go out and BUY IT! 


 


Bull.  He will not.  He'll just pirate something else.  So how exactly did they loose money?  My point is people who pirate do that.  They're not in the habit of buying games, so they probably wouldnt no matter what.  So no money lost.  Might have been different if they're shop lifting a physical item, but pirates are just taking digital files which can be copied and replicated into infinity.  My point is, they wouldnt have bought it anyways.  So there's really no difference. 


 


As far as people cheating while playing with other people?  Now thats just plain scummy.   Ive used cheats before but not often.  In single player games.  Id never dream of doing it while playing with others.  I appreciate a level playing field.  Cheating in an online game would take just as much fun from me as it would for everyone else.  Its like the saying goes, "Cheaters never win."  And they really dont.  Because they were never playing the game properly in the first place.  Cant win if you arent even really playing the game as intended.  At best you just get the illusion of winning. 


  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

10/15/11 1:18:22 AM#235
Originally posted by Gennerall

http://thepiratebay.org/top/401

 

almost 18,000 people downloading Bethsedas new release, rage, from one site alone...even if it doesn't cause the game companies to directly bleed profits, I wouldn't quite call piracy B.S

The only thing digging into id's profit on this game, is the fact that they completely botched the release by shipping it in a terribly buggy and poorly running state. Not only that, but the game is $60 for what is ten hours of bland and linear gameplay in a glorified tech demo for id's new console game engine.

The fact that the game is being pirated as much as it is (which isn't even that much), is because people aren't going to pay $60 for a game worth less than $20.

Most people who pirate either refuse to pay the price regardless if piracy is an option, or don't even have the money to but the game in the first place. But if a game is good and reasonably priced for what it is, then it will still sell well. But most developers would rather just blame poor sales on the piracy boogey monster rather than admit that their product is just terrible and not worth the $50-60 they want for it.

  bepolite

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/22/11
Posts: 55

Theres only one solution:
SANDPARK

10/15/11 1:41:08 AM#236
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by Gennerall

http://thepiratebay.org/top/401

 

almost 18,000 people downloading Bethsedas new release, rage, from one site alone...even if it doesn't cause the game companies to directly bleed profits, I wouldn't quite call piracy B.S


Most people who pirate either refuse to pay the price regardless if piracy is an option, or don't even have the money to but the game in the first place. But if a game is good and reasonably priced for what it is, then it will still sell well. But most developers would rather just blame poor sales on the piracy boogey monster rather than admit that their product is just terrible and not worth the $50-60 they want for it.

exactly if a game delivers  entertainment , word gets around  and ppl will buy it . When i get mixed reviews i admit i get the pirate version to see what s the game is like . If i got entertained id buy it anyway, no matter what ....like i did with TES series , DragonageO, Witcher Series and many more. If Developers keep on  throwing games on the market with less than mediocore content and substance , bullshitting its costumers ,all i can say they had it coming.

  jamigre

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/03
Posts: 298

10/15/11 3:01:47 AM#237
Wow. Apparently someone's just like dem idiots.

Ever heard of a certain bay where the pirates be romin? Or perchance a skidrow? Cause all you really need to do its pleasantly mod a .dll or find one modded and you're pirated ware is brand spanking' new.

In fact I would say that a lot of ppl who pirate software buy it if it's worth the $, and ESP. So games. In a lot of ways pirating is try before you buy.

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Check out http://partyupgamer.com - and meet people you actually want to play with.
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  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5156

10/15/11 4:24:20 AM#238
Requiamer, when you can handle another persons idea’s without doing a ‘he is nuts smilie’ and imply that I think I am getting my opinions from god, we can talk further. That’s it for now as god is phoning me to catch up. :-)
  onlinenow25

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/07
Posts: 278

10/15/11 5:23:57 AM#239

The best part about anti-piracy stuff is that a lot of the pirates actaully crack things for fun.


 


So all the money that companies are wasting on copy protection, and anti-pirating is only giving people free entertainment, the exact opposite of what they want.


  13333337

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 23

10/15/11 8:33:01 AM#240

Let me turn the tables as it were. I would say that some pirates would have to buy the game so they could then start to figure out how to pirate it. So they are paying for at least one copy. Of some games that is. Still I dont think its right to be a pirate. xD

But pirates arent killing off the in-game population by using mods, or exploiting.

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