Really? 

I've noticed something while surfing around youtube, while I don't comment or or rate videos I'm pretty much in agreement with how it is rated by a small "vocal minority".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1NrYY_BIWU&feature=related

357,000 views

1,600 ratings

That is 1/2 of 1% that actually bother to click the rating button.   Do you like this video or are you in agreement with the 1/2 of 1%?

Needs more cowbells. :-)

But with regards to MMORPGs... yes this forum isn't a random sampling of MMO players, in fact it's a better representation of disgruntled MMO vets looking for something worth playing.

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

That video is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen in my entire life.

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

 

My views are both correct and not representative of the mainstream ;-)

haha, we would all say the same thing Mr Funny.

He is right, his view is correct and so is mine, even though they may fundamentaly differ, because who are you to tell us that our opinion about one title or another is wrong?

edit~

Awesome video btw.

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

This needs a poll so we can see if the "vocal minority" agrees with the "vocal minority".

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a random sample is. Youtube commenters and MMO forum posters are not a random sample of the Youtube-viewing population or the MMO-playing population. It's a biased sample, because the sample is self-selecting. Only the people who want to participate end up as part of the sample.

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

I believe the reason is more likely that sandbox is harder to develop and less established as a genre. Both make a high-budget sandbox game a significantly more risky venture due to unknowns in the market place and developmental paths.

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

Originally posted by midmagic

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

I believe the reason is more likely that sandbox is harder to develop and less established as a genre. Both make a high-budget sandbox game a significantly more risky venture due to unknowns in the market place and developmental paths.

It is because the fabled sandbox does not exist. there are a mixture of both, but this insane idea that you can walk out into a world and do what the hell you want in it only exists in the real world.  If you are not there you are playing a game which is a themepark.  Grow up and get over it. 

Grow up? Weeeeeeeeee. Na. I'll pass on that.

Sandbox does not equal "do what the hell you want". I'm not even sure what that means as it is grossly non-specific. I can only assume you mean FFA PVP games but that is only a small subset of games that would be considered sandbox.

Can you name a grossly popular sandbox game? How about a grossly popular MOG sandbox genre (this is different than the first game)?

such a minority that Ubisoft's PC game sales have plummited 90%.

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

Originally posted by midmagic

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

Originally posted by midmagic

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

I believe the reason is more likely that sandbox is harder to develop and less established as a genre. Both make a high-budget sandbox game a significantly more risky venture due to unknowns in the market place and developmental paths.

It is because the fabled sandbox does not exist. there are a mixture of both, but this insane idea that you can walk out into a world and do what the hell you want in it only exists in the real world.  If you are not there you are playing a game which is a themepark.  Grow up and get over it. 

Grow up? Weeeeeeeeee. Na. I'll pass on that.

Sandbox does not equal "do what the hell you want". I'm not even sure what that means as it is grossly non-specific. I can only assume you mean FFA PVP games but that is only a small subset of games that would be considered sandbox.

Can you name a grossly popular sandbox game? How about a grossly popular MOG sandbox genre (this is different than the first game)?

There is none for good reason.  The only grossly popular sandbox game is outside your front door.  Games have rules, otherwise it is no longer a game, if you wanna disregard rules run around your neighbourhood naked.   

No rules = sandbox? Real life is a "sandbox"?

Wwwwwweeeeeeee!! Logic errors. I'm fairly certain real life has rules.

Anyways. Sandbox games are expected to, and must, have rules.

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

Invalid comparison.

Now, if you were talking about video votes on a YouTube-related forum then it would be a valid comparison.

Many MMO forum regulars are under the impression that far more people visit or even know about the forums than actually do. The fact is that the average player rarely ever visits the forums. In my experience, the players that do are typically:

• players with an issue/problem they are looking to resolve
• players that are significantly more invested in the game
• player with a certain interest in interacting with te forum community
• players looking to engage the devs and veteran player

Of the three, the first one is most likely to contain the casual players and the new players, however once their issue is resolved - depending on the resolution and tone of the responses -  they usually don't return unless they have another question. The rest are dominated by veteran players and other players that are often far more knowledgeable about or far more interested in the game and its mechanics, design and future than most players are.

As a result, the forum visitors often don't accurately represent the overall voice and views of the playerbase, however they can be a great indicator of the mood and climate of the community itself.

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

All hail the corporate masters who know everything.

Originally posted by Disdena

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what a random sample is. Youtube commenters and MMO forum posters are not a random sample of the Youtube-viewing population or the MMO-playing population. It's a biased sample, because the sample is self-selecting. Only the people who want to participate end up as part of the sample.

Only people who want to participate post in forums.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

Invalid comparison.

Now, if you were talking about video votes on a YouTube-related forum then it would be a valid comparison.

 

Many MMO forum regulars are under the impression that far more people visit or even know about the forums than actually do. The fact is that the average player rarely ever visits the forums. In my experience, the players that do are typically:

• players with an issue/problem they are looking to resolve
• players that are significantly more invested in the game
• player with a certain interest in interacting with te forum community
• players looking to engage the devs and veteran player

Those who vote on Youtube

-have an issue or a problem with the vidoe

-are significantly interested in video

-are so insanely bored they will post on youtube some comment usually consisting of 1337 speak.

-think they have some sort of influence on the world outside of their imagination

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

All hail the corporate masters who know everything.

Assuming you are British, would you prefer a corporate entity on the basis of previous experience of profit making endevours (therefore popular) to choose a design team, or David Cameron???

Brit-ish?  Why would you assume that matey.  What gave you the impression I was Brit-ish, scallywag?

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by GreenHell

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

You are correct. If it was not a vocal minority there would be a high budget quality sandbox game out there right now with millions of players. There is not.

All hail the corporate masters who know everything.

Assuming you are British, would you prefer a corporate entity on the basis of previous experience of profit making endevours (therefore popular) to choose a design team, or David Cameron???

Brit-ish?  Why would you assume that matey.  What gave you the impression I was Brit-ish, scallywag?

You can tell a Brit a mile off, its the bad teeth, but guess you agree then. 

Put another shrimp on the barbie?

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by BigGayNorman

The sad truth is that MMORPG.com is not a random sample of MMO players.  It is the vocal minority and we do not reflect the mainstream opinion, as much as we each love to beleive our views are correct.

That's like saying the votes on youtube are invalid cause it's not a random samplers of everyone.  It's a random sampling of those on the internet.  These forums are are a random sampling of those who play MMORPGs.  WOW forums are a random sampling of those who play WOW.

It's more like pointing out that the success of more successful videos speaks for itself, and the votes are irrelevant.

Although in the case of successful games, we're talking about people who not only clicked the link one time (as in a youtube vid) but actually kept coming back week after week.  Which is considerably different from youtube hits or votes.