What I really cannot understand, at all, why so many "grinders" bother about those who really just want to experience end level content. Whats the big deal here? If someone wants to race to end level, why not let them? Some games just fail to deliver when it comes to a "journey", but the end level content teases me. Unfortunately the game forces me to be dragged through some endlessly painful content that makes me turn my back to the game before reaching "end level". Which means unsubbing.

Myself, and I think alot of other "racers", don't bother about the "grinders" that want to grind through all quests and look into every corner of the map; good for you that you can enjoy it! The problem here is definately that the "grinders" is not accepting that "racers" want to play the game a whole different way.

Now why is this such a problem for you "grinders"? I am not in your way at all, I am paying for the same game that you enjoys; which should be a win-win situation for us both. Still all this rage & hate...

Discuss!

It cheapens their grinding experience if somene else didn't 'accomplish' the same number of endless hours clicking the same five numbers (and whatever Get/Loot is) over and over.

Originally posted by chrisel

What I really cannot understand, at all, why so many "grinders" bother about those who really just want to experience end level content. Whats the big deal here? If someone wants to race to end level, why not let them? Some games just fail to deliver when it comes to a "journey", but the end level content teases me. Unfortunately the game forces me to be dragged through some endlessly painful content that makes me turn my back to the game before reaching "end level". Which means unsubbing.

Myself, and I think alot of other "racers", don't bother about the "grinders" that want to grind through all quests and look into every corner of the map; good for you that you can enjoy it! The problem here is definately that the "grinders" is not accepting that "racers" want to play the game a whole different way.

Now why is this such a problem for you "grinders"? I am not in your way at all, I am paying for the same game that you enjoys; which should be a win-win situation for us both. Still all this rage & hate...

Discuss!

{mod edit}

I've never heard of people purposely preventing others from "racing" to max level.  People who want to get to max level and ignore the majority of the game are free to do so.  There is little to nothing that other players can do to prevent that.

Also, you have the terminology wrong.  It's the people that don't do any of the game's content and just "grind" to max level that are usually called "grinders".  The people that play through the game in the normal way - by partaking in various types of content - these people don't have a special name, they're just "normal".    Anyhow, just fyi.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

It cheapens their grinding experience if somene else didn't 'accomplish' the same number of endless hours clicking the same five numbers (and whatever Get/Loot is) over and over.

Of all MMO players I know, it is the ones that prefer to "grind" that is somewhat most "special" in real life. If I can put it that way. Can this "demand" that grinders have, rely on some personality issues you think? I mean, forcing others to something they actually don't want to do, ain't actually the best personality trait to have...

And since when did anyone think of themselves as solely a grinder, oh wait "grinder"  well anyway to argue against this, a "racer" races past content then promptly starts complaining - I want content! thats the issue.

Has that ever happened?  I don't think I've ever heard or read about people who like the journey telling people they shouldn't rush to end game or they are playing it wrong.

Seems like a thread about nothing... ironic.

Venge

I think OP has to turn it the other way around. The 'racers' are mostly the ones to have a problem with the 'grinders'. I've seen it happen over and over again in new MMOs and old MMOs that launch new servers.

The 'racers' hit their maximum level and then start to complain (here on the MMOs forum and in the MMOs general chat) that the 'end-game sucks'. Though I agree with most games that their 'end-game' sucks, the problem with these 'racers' is that they're alone at the top (litterally) and have no one around to do the 'end-game' with, since most MMO's require parties to enjoy the 'end-game' (or the PvP at max level for that matter).

BTW, nice to see this topic here once again ;-)

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Has that ever happened?  I don't think I've ever heard or read about people who like the journey telling people they shouldn't rush to end game or they are playing it wrong.

Seems like a thread about nothing... ironic.

Venge

I have countless times been "told" that it is about the "journey", not about "the end". I have also read thousands of times where other have been told the exact same thing. These forums are flooded with these "orders". So yes, this is highly legitimate to discuss.

Originally posted by chrisel

Originally posted by Loktofeit

It cheapens their grinding experience if somene else didn't 'accomplish' the same number of endless hours clicking the same five numbers (and whatever Get/Loot is) over and over.

Of all MMO players I know, it is the ones that prefer to "grind" that is somewhat most "special" in real life. If I can put it that way. Can this "demand" that grinders have, rely on some personality issues you think? I mean, forcing others to something they actually don't want to do, ain't actually the best personality trait to have...

 The players who prefer to grind, usually like to be diverse and do many different things in a game - they fit into the game and adapt.  "racers" race to kill bosses first, thats it, they can't see beyond it, they don't want to see beyond it, and they dont care about anything else, and you think they are better for this? 

Not many who play game as casuals complain when some person race to end game in no time and why should they?

Maybe few complain that the game was made way to easy so people could finsih at end game in few days-weeks but you will always have people who always have something to complain about nomatter what game devs do.

Originally posted by Bladestrom

 The players to prefer to grind, usually like to be diverse and do many different things in a game - they fit into the game and adapt.  "racers" race to kill bosses first, thats it, they can't see beyond it, they don't want to see beyond it, and they dont care about anything else, and you think they are better for this? 

Better? We are not talking about being "better" here; you are turning this upside down. I am better in ONE way; I am not the one who tries to force other to play the MMO in a certain way.

Btw; you forget one big thing; PvP'ers. MMO's to me is mostly about end level PvP. This "group" I belong to, is actually a big part of the MMO's community, and thus a huge contributor to the gaming companies income. See? If you forces us out, there will be less money to develop your game too. And one day, you are all "end" level. And you think you will not whine then? Personally I think MMO games today definately need "racers"; so there will be well developed content for the grinders when they end up at end level too.

edit

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Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Has that ever happened?  I don't think I've ever heard or read about people who like the journey telling people they shouldn't rush to end game or they are playing it wrong.
Seems like a thread about nothing... ironic.
Venge

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Well yes I do see that people who race to end game getting told they do it wrong and all that.  The reason they get told this though is once they get to the end game they find there isn't much to do there and so start threads in various forums about how the game is boring for them.  The rest of the community look at them and and say well duh of couse there isn't anything at end game yet the games just been released if you ignored all the content in the middle to get to end game fast thats your own fault.  Now please go away till there is a content update so we can go through our conent in peace without having to listen to your silly whining about how a month old game bores you cause you skipped 75% of the content.

What someone else is doing for fun in an MMO is not my concern, not unless their fun is affecting my fun.  The problem I have with anyone else's pace is when I'm expected to match it. 

My least favorite things to hear in an MMO are:

1.  It gets fun at level cap, just suck it up and quest, it doesn't take long to max anyway, it's not like it used to be back when I first started playing MMOs.  (Well okay, yeah, but my complaint isn't the length of time I'm not having fun, my complaint is that I'm not having fun, period).

2.  It's all about the journey, not the destination (while that might be true, if the journey is putting me to sleep, I have little desire to hear this canned response).

3.  Get a guild, it gets fun when you have a guild.  (Not everyone thinks being in a guild is fun.)

4.  Play for a month, grind your skills, afk macro your heart out, and then, in some rare, unusual, once in a lifetime situation, your squishy noob self might be useful in pvp (but only if you're in a guild of course).

5.  This game isn't made for crafters/people who don't like to quest/pvpers/carebears/soloers.  (If true of course this is a good thing to tell someone who is unhappy, so they can move on, but if the game devs claim their game has a place for something and then the players claim it does not, it's confusing, and I'm certainly going to be irritated with someone over it).

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Originally posted by chrisel
Btw; you forget one big thing; PvP'ers. MMO's to me is mostly about end level PvP. This "group" I belong to, is actually a big part of the MMO's community, and thus a huge contributor to the gaming companies income. See? If you forces us out, there will be less money to develop your game too. And one day, you are all "end" level. And you think you will not whine then? Personally I think MMO games today definately need "racers"; so there will be well developed content for the grinders when they end up at end level too.

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No offence, but if you're talking about WoW and RIFT, yeah, then you need 'end-game' to PvP. But in other MMO's (Lineage II, EVE online), the PvP starts way before you hit the maximum level (though impossible with EVE, I know).

An other thing your logic flaws here is that devs need money to develop. I agree with you there, but 'racers' are not the one who take care of the cash-flow in that way. These 'racers' are bored of their game quickly (see my previous reply here) and leave the game. The 'grinders' are the ones who stay longer with the game they play and thus pay the bills for the devs to create new content...

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Originally posted by chrisel
Better? We are not talking about being "better" here; you are turning this upside down. I am better in ONE way; I am not the one who tries to force other to play the MMO in a certain way.

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Originally posted by chrisel

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Has that ever happened?  I don't think I've ever heard or read about people who like the journey telling people they shouldn't rush to end game or they are playing it wrong.

Seems like a thread about nothing... ironic.

Venge

I have countless times been "told" that it is about the "journey", not about "the end". I have also read thousands of times where other have been told the exact same thing. These forums are flooded with these "orders". So yes, this is highly legitimate to discuss.

So "you" have been "told" that it is about the "journey".

How is that in any "way" "forcing" you "play" a certain "way". Or "demanding" you "do" anything that "you" don't "want" to?

You seem to be all "butt-sore" about other people criticising your "playstyle" and yet here you "are": Criticising "theirs"...

Originally posted by Nibs

So "you" have been "told" that it is about the "journey".

How is that in any "way" "forcing" you "play" a certain "way". Or "demanding" you "do" anything that "you" don't "want" to?

You seem to be all "butt-sore" about other people criticising your "playstyle" and yet here you "are": Criticising "theirs"...

 

Speak for yourself.

I don't like being told how to play my games. Apparently you do, but that ain't my concern. Why are you having problems with my approach to the games?

Those people who race to end level are grinders , so erm you kinda missed on terminology.

Originally posted by fenistil

Those people who race to end level are grinders , so erm you kinda missed on terminology.

So what do you call them that does not race to end level, if not "grinders"? I personally like my way described as "racer" better.