Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Joliust

I have only played Vanilla WoW. It would have worked back then.

Vanilla WOW had AHs, so player stalls weren't really going to add anything even back then.

Some other form of business-running feature, like a building which you rent which automatically produces items for you as long as you keep it filled with materials, could've worked, but market stalls couldn't.

As for the other poster's crafted items comment, maybe he only played Vanilla WOW too, because throughout most of WOW (and certainly after BC) crafting has provided very solid item choices.  People get distracted by the loads of common items required to improve tradeskills, I suppose, such that they don't notice that at the end of the line there are great items to be made.

The problem with high end crafted items in WoW is that most of the time they are crafted on a bring-your-own-mats system.  It is not worth it for the crafters to make the items ahead of time and instead they offer the service of putting the item together from mats and only taking a fee/tip for it.  This system bypasses both the AH and any vendor stall system.

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Joliust

I have only played Vanilla WoW. It would have worked back then.

Vanilla WOW had AHs, so player stalls weren't really going to add anything even back then.

Some other form of business-running feature, like a building which you rent which automatically produces items for you as long as you keep it filled with materials, could've worked, but market stalls couldn't.

As for the other poster's crafted items comment, maybe he only played Vanilla WOW too, because throughout most of WOW (and certainly after BC) crafting has provided very solid item choices.  People get distracted by the loads of common items required to improve tradeskills, I suppose, such that they don't notice that at the end of the line there are great items to be made.

The problem with high end crafted items in WoW is that most of the time they are crafted on a bring-your-own-mats system.  It is not worth it for the crafters to make the items ahead of time and instead they offer the service of putting the item together from mats and only taking a fee/tip for it.  This system bypasses both the AH and any vendor stall system.

Well that's only really a problem of expecting to be able to pre-produce items for profit, and not a problem with crafting not being useful (because it clearly produces useful items.)

It's not like you couldn't make a vendor stall system out of that though: Rent a stall; players pay a fee for your character to combine items, even while you're offline.  Not quite enough utility to justify the system, perhaps, but it's close.

SWG basically did this, where people turned their in-game housing into shops by decorating them and adding NPC vendors.  Later cantinas and other structures were added.

This was a very deep aspect of the game, which was part of the whole crafting, resource, commerce aspect and would take days to break it all down and explain it.  It provided a *complete* non-combat game experience.

Basically, as long as you can control the economy, and keep the game developers from changing the game drastically every few months, it works great. SOE jacked with the game so much, including changing things like decay, and the value of loot, tat the whole system eventually started to break down.  However it went from launch until NGE working pretty damned well.

The Auction House helped ruin MMO's in my opinion.  Developing relationships with crafters, selling them crafting resources, visiting their lavish and creatively decorated shops was a huge part of the game.  Because you had to travel long distances to buy from them sometimes, you ended up meeting new people and having adventures that you otherwise wouldn't.

Why not ask for a game where you can just buy a plot that's  just pitch black or plain white. Just create and do whatever on it, this so called open and persistent player controlled world some of you want.

I mean ever game released is greeted with "It has too much or too little of it,"They should of done this instead of that." It's almost like you want the game to be created, but not so much just the base or foundation of it. Oh, wait, we really don't want you to create that either, let us the players do that too.

Let's just forget the idea that developers who come up with games can be creative just like artist, but it takes a team to do it,

The single most important design philosophy in any game development, whether it be a card or board game or an MMORPG, is the age old question "is it fun?"

With that said, this concept has a lot of merit, I personally feel it is the direction that MMORPGs as virtual worlds, need to take to truly blossom. Whether the specific scenario you depicted would work is a whole other question. That is the delicacy of a design approach like this: yo must tread lightly. One of the best approaches to attempting something relatively innovative and un-tested such as this is iterative design. Build a rough working build of the system and see if it is fun. The touchy thing with your scenario is whether or not virtual food/brew is worth the player investment (read: time), does it bring them fun? I would reply: it depends on the mechanics. You can make the most mundane of tasks engaging if you provide the right atmosphere and the right mechanics.

Another problem to your scenario is context. When you have a great design feature mplemented into a game that follows a very different design approach it will clash, you want to make sure there is a perfect synergy between sub-systems such as combat/conflict and player ran businesses. Can this business be robbed (risk adds to immersion, reward, and overall fun)? Can it be defended? What can a player do to set their business apart from other businesses? It is within this synergy of mechanics that an iterative design approach will find the flaws and kinks of a design and help the team create a unity. Otherwise the team might head down a path that is not fun, does not mesh well with other sub-systems and ultimately detracts from the game rather than adding to it.

MMORPGs have much to learn from other genres, such as the social apps like FarmVille, in this realm. However, it is knowledge that must be weighed and measured carefully, so that it meshes well.