One other thing; the new epsiode of STOked just came out where they interview the new EP, Stephen D'angelo. In this interview it is finally confirmed that Cryptic did not set the release date:

http://youtu.be/a0tP0YrlJB0#t=11m10s

When they aquired the STO rights from Perpetual Entertainment they had the same expriation date that Perpetual did, who had already had the game for 4 years(and not actually done anything). By the time Cryptic took over they only had 2 years left(Peptual had STO from 2004 to 2008 when Cryptic got it, and launch was Feb 2, 2010).

FYI, all of the above are actual facts. Now for opinion, I doubt any other studio except Blizzard could have done more with the game in only 2 years of development.

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus



 

Originally posted by Harryhausen

Most MMOs are somewhat repetative, the good one's hide it well.

Which ones "hide" being repetitive? 

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, compared to STO, all of them. AAMOF, Klingon play was so god awful in how much it lacked content and forced the same missions to grind over and over and over, that the FTP model actually starts them after level 20.

 

The only way to make it even look like there is enough to do with that faction was to eliminate the beginning and squeeze what little there is to do into the last 25 levels or so.

That is just sad beyond words. 

ROFL, we know Cryptic didn't make the release date. We've known that from the beginning. That's not the point.

They agreed to it! They bragged that they could do it. But, they couldn't. Now they are trying to play catch up. Once you agree to something and promote such as your companie's strength...YOU take on the responsibility for it.

It makes absolutely no difference who set the schedule after you agree to do it. Man, you guys really grasp at straws don't you?

No matter what this crappy company does, you will find another scapegoat for it.

Cryptic made their bed when they agreed to the schedule for the money. Bragging that the short dev time was their specialty only solidifies their guilt.

Originally posted by Harryhausen

Originally posted by Harryhausen

Most MMOs are somewhat repetative, the good one's hide it well.

Which ones "hide" being repetitive? 

 

Lol, compared to STO, all of them.

 

So just name one then. Which game do you think isnt repetitive? 

I'll just quote what i wrote earlier. You obviously missed it.

"Most MMOs are somewhat repetative, the good one's hide it well. STO doesn't even try. The game actually makes you repeat the same content over and over. Not "similar" content, the same exact missions.". """

Originally posted by Harryhausen

I'll just quote what i wrote earlier. You obviously missed it.

"Most MMOs are somewhat repetative, the good one's hide it well. STO doesn't even try. The game actually makes you repeat the same content over and over. Not "similar" content, the same exact missions.". """

 

Nope, I didnt miss it at all. Lets recap:

1) You said most MMOs "hide" being repetitive

2) I asked you which ones "hide" it

3) You said "all" compared to STO

4) I asked you for a specifc example

5) You didnt give it.

So once again, please give a specific example of an MMO that you think hides being repetitive. 

---

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

---

Originally posted by Harryhausen
I'll just quote what i wrote earlier. You obviously missed it.

"Most MMOs are somewhat repetative, the good one's hide it well. STO doesn't even try. The game actually makes you repeat the same content over and over. Not "similar" content, the same exact missions.". """

 

---

Nope, I didnt miss it at all. Lets recap:
1) You said most MMOs "hide" being repetitive
2) I asked you which ones "hide" it
3) You said "all" compared to STO
4) I asked you for a specifc example
5) You didnt give it.
So once again, please give a specific example of an MMO that you think hides being repetitive. 

---

What part of all is complicated for you? It was obvious to me, anyway.

Even WoW hides it better.

How about this list?

EVE
GW
Ryzom
LOTRO
DDO
EQ
EQII
Vanguard
AoC
Runes of Magic
Fallen Earth
Global Agenda
Lineage II
City of X
DAOC
UO
LoL
Atlantica

And I could continue.

I am sure that's what was meant. All isn't a complicated concept.

You are as annoying as the Grand Nagus in the shows.

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

 

---

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

---

Originally posted by Harryhausen
I'll just quote what i wrote earlier. You obviously missed it.

"Most MMOs are somewhat repetative, the good one's hide it well. STO doesn't even try. The game actually makes you repeat the same content over and over. Not "similar" content, the same exact missions.". """

 

---

Nope, I didnt miss it at all. Lets recap:
1) You said most MMOs "hide" being repetitive
2) I asked you which ones "hide" it
3) You said "all" compared to STO
4) I asked you for a specifc example
5) You didnt give it.
So once again, please give a specific example of an MMO that you think hides being repetitive. 

---

 

What part of all is complicated for you? It was obvious to me, anyway.

Even WoW hides it better.

How about this list?

EVE
GW
Ryzom
LOTRO
DDO
EQ
EQII
Vanguard
AoC
Runes of Magic
Fallen Earth
Global Agenda
Lineage II
City of X
DAOC
UO
LoL
Atlantica

And I could continue.

I am sure that's what was meant. All isn't a complicated concept.

You are as annoying as the Grand Nagus in the shows.

The only games I've played from your list are LOTRO, AOC, and COX, and those games are all heavily repetitive. I cant tell you how many wolves(LOTRO), Picts(AOC) and people in sewers and warhouses(COX) I have killed in almost identical quests. If those games fit your definition of "not repetitive" I can only imagine the other games on your list are the same way. So thank you for proving my point for me  =)

As HH said, most MMOs, if not all, are repetitive. These obviously are. They are not as repetitive as STO, and what is repetitive is better hidden, or more variable.

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

As HH said, most MMOs, if not all, are repetitive. These obviously are. They are not as repetitive as STO, and what is repetitive is better hidden, or more variable.

Except the 3 games I just discussed do not hide it at all. It is clearly visible from the start. So if you consider those 3 games as 'hiding' their repetitiveness than I can only assume the other games on your list are just as obvious(since you are the one that made the list).

I mean, if TOR were out and its questing is all its cracked up to be, I could see you saying compared to that STO is super repetitive. But the LOTRO, AOC, and COX arent helping your argument at all.

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

One other thing; the new epsiode of STOked just came out where they interview the new EP, Stephen D'angelo. In this interview it is finally confirmed that Cryptic did not set the release date:

It was confirmed a long time ago by Cryptic's devs, and I believe Jack as well, that they had the same deadline as Perpetual. Instead of being realistic about what they could do in that time period, they went on about how their great engine shortened development time, and about how they could mass-produce AAA MMOs (Jack's spin there) in an 18-24 month cycle. Heck, when Atari talked about buying Cryptic one of their executives gave the release date they were looking at; STOs devs tried to spin that as some kind of tentative date.

Cryptic would have been far better served being honest about the launch date in the first place, give the reason why they had to stick to it, and then manage their expectations of what they could resonably do in that time frame (i.e. have everyone work on the Federation, and not waste resources on a Klingon faction that is still such a joke that they have to raise the level you unlock them at to hide how barren the Klingon specific content is).

Atari's problem, in the development time department, was that they still expected Cryptic to stick to the 18-24 month development cycle that Cryptic had been bragging about prior to the release, even after CO and STO launched to such horrible reviews from gaming websites and players alike. According to rumors, Cryptic was working on the new NWN game as well as another one, at the same time; Atari should have had an inkling by then that if working on two games at once didn't work the first time, it probably wouldn't be such a great to continue doing that.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

One other thing; the new epsiode of STOked just came out where they interview the new EP, Stephen D'angelo. In this interview it is finally confirmed that Cryptic did not set the release date:

It was confirmed a long time ago by Cryptic's devs, and I believe Jack as well, that they had the same deadline as Perpetual. 

I have heard that from any official source prior to this interview. Do you have a link?

Cryptic took STO and agreed to the deadline for it's release, it's their fault for accepting it.  They made a really bad game with a good IP.

Of course, we know (well, most of us anyway) that many games hide the repetativeness of the mechanics with variety and flare. STO doesn't even try.

Grinding in STO isn't doing "similar" missions over and over, it is doing the exact same missions over and over. Running through the exact same underground base to click the exact same consoles over and over and over and over again.

Then, there are the STFs, only a handful to date, which means if you want more of a challenge (and this is really being generous as they aren't a challenge as much as they are just frustrating wave after wave of mobs. Death is part of the mechanic as you must die over and over again in order to complete many of them. They actually refer to this as "working as intended") you have only a few missions to choose from and, again, must repeat the same content again and again.

Featured Episodes are good but way to few and far between. The entire concept may be flawed as a game mechanic as it takes months to make them but only half an hour to complete. Which, again, means if you want to enjoy better content, you have to wait for it or play the tiny amount of FEs over and over until more is developed.

The game launched with barely any content. The thin amount is also in your face repetative as well. So, repetition is all you have. Obvious, mind numbing repetition. The only "newness" the game achieves is in the endless skins added to the MT store constantly.

Of course, the Nagas will never ever admit these things. A handful of people on the STO forums have invested heavily in this game both monitarly as well as emotionally. They refuse to see the truth and will flame anyone that has a negative opinion.

This is also hurting the game as the official forums are not welcoming to critique or negative feedback. What you see here is multiplied 10 fold on their forum. People that disagree are quickly silenced and great ideas fall by the wayside.

STO could have been one of the greatest MMOs ever. Instead, it's a hollow representation of a grand universe. It's a missed opportunity many times over, starting with the dismal launch.

Originally posted by Harryhausen

Of course, we know (well, most of us anyway) that many games hide the repetativeness of the mechanics with variety and flare. STO doesn't even try.

Can you explain exactly what you mean by "hide it with variety and flare"? And I dont mean some vague general statement, I mean what specifically are you talking about? Because I could log in LOTRO, COX, or AOC right now and do mission after mission which will involve going to essentially the same locations and killing the same NPCs. How is that hiding anything?

Just so we're clear, I dont disagree STO is repetative. I just dont agree that other MMOs "hide" it. So again, explain EXACTLY what you mean, and HOW they do it. Give SPECIFIC examples. All I'm doing is asking you to explain your own statements, not someone else's, so it shouldnt be that hard.

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

I have heard that from any official source prior to this interview. Do you have a link?

It was after they started spinning about STO, concerning why they released the game in the state it was in. Other than that, I am not going to go back through the thousands of posts on the official forums just for confirmation.

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Can you explain exactly what you mean by "hide it with variety and flare"? And I dont mean some vague general statement, I mean what specifically are you talking about? Because I could log in LOTRO, COX, or AOC right now and do mission after mission which will involve going to essentially the same locations and killing the same NPCs. How is that hiding anything?

Just so we're clear, I dont disagree STO is repetative. I just dont agree that other MMOs "hide" it. So again, explain EXACTLY what you mean, and HOW they do it. Give SPECIFIC examples. All I'm doing is asking you to explain your own statements, not someone else's, so it shouldnt be that hard.

I think he(?) is referring to the fact that most MMOs try to mix up the missions just a bit, in that you get a quest to deliver something to NPC X, and can also pick up quests to collect items or kill things in that area, as well as sometimes getting quests to study lore or explore; they mix it up, just a little bit at least. In STO, unfortunately the majority of the quests were go kill/scan x of x. Sure, almost all MMOs basically have the same types of quests repeated; it's just that in Cryptic's games it is so blantantly obvious that it tends to detract from the game. CO and STO aren't alone there though; CoH/CoV suffered from the same problem, though to be fair it wasn't quite as blatantly obvious.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

I have heard that from any official source prior to this interview. Do you have a link?

It was after they started spinning about STO, concerning why they released the game in the state it was in. Other than that, I am not going to go back through the thousands of posts on the official forums just for confirmation.

I just dont remember seeing that, and for some odd reason not even one person who I have asked has been able to provide a source, which is pretty strange for the internet.

Originally posted by Dinendae

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Can you explain exactly what you mean by "hide it with variety and flare"? And I dont mean some vague general statement, I mean what specifically are you talking about? Because I could log in LOTRO, COX, or AOC right now and do mission after mission which will involve going to essentially the same locations and killing the same NPCs. How is that hiding anything?

Just so we're clear, I dont disagree STO is repetative. I just dont agree that other MMOs "hide" it. So again, explain EXACTLY what you mean, and HOW they do it. Give SPECIFIC examples. All I'm doing is asking you to explain your own statements, not someone else's, so it shouldnt be that hard.

I think he(?) is referring to the fact that most MMOs try to mix up the missions just a bit, 

Again, I'm asking for a specific example in a specific MMO that I can actually log in and see for myself. "Most MMOs" is a vague general statement. 

Once this game goes F2P I'll redownload it and play it.

***teaches hot Vulcan ladies how to dance!***