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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » Korea May Ban D3 over Real Money Auction House trading

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173 posts found
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

9/28/11 9:54:16 AM#161
Originally posted by DeathTouch

I'm just waiting for the government to scream, "WHERE ARE MY TAXES?"

I'm certain Blizzard's legal team has their asses covered on that front.  Their consumers, on the other hand, may be answering some tough questions at audit time.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Roccprofit

Novice Member

Joined: 8/15/10
Posts: 98

AI has nothing on natural stupidity.

9/28/11 10:52:44 AM#162

 Actually it is a legal mine field as to the legal or not legal selling of gold, that is why games have a EULA. The Eula is your contract or agreement with the company to use there product. Most EULA's state that you can not buy or sell anything that makes real world money off there product, that includes gold. Violating the EULA is a breach of contract and the contract is a legal agreement and therefor it is illeagel to sell gold as it violates the EULA. So if the EULA states that selling gold is a violation you can be held legally accountable if the company chooses to pusue it. That is why most gold farmers are from forgien countrys.

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

9/28/11 11:00:39 AM#163
Originally posted by st4t1ck

I still dont understand why its such a big problem to put a feature in a game that you dont have to use. if you dont like it dont use it. so many people say they wont play the game because of this. Im not willing to miss out on a great game because of something i may or may not use

 

And without modding and perma online no solo when no internet and all the MONEY CRAZY$$$bastards who see game just as business, not for fun or relaxation, no just a day at work work work.

No thx, blizzard gets no money from me.

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/28/11 2:46:11 PM#164

First of all, I really doubt that unidentified items would be allowed on the RMAH, Blizzard won't be that dumb, if they would allow that then it would be looked at it as gambling in most of the world.

Secondly, while thinking a bit about insertion fees and googling about it, they are allowed for Ebay, so they should be allowed for the RMAH as well. I do personally feel these should be token charges, to avoid spamming the auction house with crap, not a high sum that may discourage a legit seller.

Furthermore, from what I have read, RMT is alowed in South Korea, so I don't see the problem there.

Interesting stuff all of this. Honestly I hope Blizzard will succeed, because I prefer this system over Microtransactions directly from the game companies and illegal RMT from scammers and botters.

 

Now there is another thing a friend of mine mentioned, what if you buy a dupe with real money and Blizzard zaps it? Or wont they zap dupes? Now then that would be pretty bad as well, so how are they going to fix that?

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/28/11 3:07:13 PM#165

After doing some more research the plot thickens.

So it was not allowed to do RMT in South Korea :

http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2007/05/s_koreas_bancan.html

A few years later the Supreme Court destroys this law and make RMT legal, except if it is based on gambling :

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/01/116_58775.html

http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2915126

However if you read this carefully, it may be on the edge. While I personally feel that items in the Diablo series are mostly found by skill, there is of course luck involved, while I personally don't view this as gambling, it may fall under the gambling law.

So the question is how exactly are loot drops done in Lineage? I haven't play Lineage long enough and too long ago to remember.

 

Here is a link to what this all started, there is a lot of speculation here.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2011/09/123_95415.html

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10575

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

9/28/11 3:45:52 PM#166


Originally posted by CyberWiz
After doing some more research the plot thickens.
So it was not allowed to do RMT in South Korea :
http://terranova.blogs.com/terra_nova/2007/05/s_koreas_bancan.html
A few years later the Supreme Court destroys this law and make RMT legal, except if it is based on gambling :
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2010/01/116_58775.html
http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2915126
However if you read this carefully, it may be on the edge. While I personally feel that items in the Diablo series are mostly found by skill, there is of course luck involved, while I personally don't view this as gambling, it may fall under the gambling law.
So the question is how exactly are loot drops done in Lineage? I haven't play Lineage long enough and too long ago to remember.
 
Here is a link to what this all started, there is a lot of speculation here.
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/biz/2011/09/123_95415.html
 



To the South Korean government, playing online video games is equivalent to gambling, especially since you can get addicted to it. That's why selling gold is illegal - you're earning money from 'gambling'. Two guys bought a bunch of gold in Lineage II, then bought a bunch of items, then sold those items for a lot more gold, and then sold the gold for real world money. The SK Supreme Court ruled that the men were not guilty of gambling (they earned the money), so the money they earned was currency and could be sold. The SK Supreme Court did nothing but exonerate the two guys, they didn't legalize gold selling in South Korea. They didn't abolish any laws or change any laws. Those two guys just didn't break the law with what they did.

Blizzard's problem is that playing video games looks like gambling to the South Korean government, so you can't take those virtual items and make money off of them.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/29/11 3:30:04 AM#167

Quote :

"Justice Min Il-young said that trading game money for cash should be punished only in cases in which it is obtained by online gambling games such as poker or other card games."

This clearly sets a precedent don't you think?

Also :

"Meanwhile, a court ruled in September of last year that profits from the trading of "cyber money" should be subject to 10 percent value added tax (VAT)."

So clearly, if they tax it, they are allowing it.

 

Furthermore in the original law from 2007 on RMT'ing, items and gold are looked upon as equivalent.

Also the law from 2007 tries to combat sweatshops, but that is not what we are talking about here.

 

So really I think Blizzard has a good case, even in South Korea.

 

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  darthsihoron

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 1

9/29/11 3:31:06 AM#168

The difference between RMAH and gambling is very simple. While winning money at gambling is based purely on chance ,winning money on RMAH  is also based on some economics and business rulles ( example: a fair price / offer and demand / rarity /etc) Thus if you put a good item for huge price no one will buy it ever. The main problem with RMAH is that it destroys the boundries between gaming and real life... Using real money to buy game upgrades is ruining the fairness of the game because not every user can afford that . So some players will start with an advantage that has nothing to do with their skills,intelligence or time played just with their bank accounts.

Life is pain

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/29/11 3:47:50 AM#169
Originally posted by darthsihoron

The difference between RMAH and gambling is very simple. While winning money at gambling is based purely on chance ,winning money on RMAH  is also based on some economics and business rulles ( example: a fair price / offer and demand / rarity /etc) Thus if you put a good item for huge price no one will buy it ever. The main problem with RMAH is that it destroys the boundries between gaming and real life... Using real money to buy game upgrades is ruining the fairness of the game because not every user can afford that . So some players will start with an advantage that has nothing to do with their skills,intelligence or time played just with their bank accounts.

I completely agree with that, but too bad this is the way mmorpg's / online RPG's are evolving. The thing is, if you really want to ban all illegal RMT'ing, then you would need for everyone to have electronic ID's and you'd have to use these to be able to play.

This would seriously undermine the freedom we have on the Internet.

It is a balance between freedom and security, China, Australia, Dictatorships, Nanny states, be carefull with what you wish for.

 

 

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

9/29/11 4:29:25 AM#170

 



Originally posted by darthsihoron
The difference between RMAH and gambling is very simple. While winning money at gambling is based purely on chance ,winning money on RMAH  is also based on some economics and business rulles ( example: a fair price / offer and demand / rarity /etc) Thus if you put a good item for huge price no one will buy it ever. The main problem with RMAH is that it destroys the boundries between gaming and real life... Using real money to buy game upgrades is ruining the fairness of the game because not every user can afford that . So some players will start with an advantage that has nothing to do with their skills,intelligence or time played just with their bank accounts.

 

If you are trading inside the game, on a meta level you are gambling, and that is the whole problem here. You also have some gambling machine inside some mmo, but since they are about ingame gold, i really don't thing it can be looked at gambling "mmo" on a meta level, at least in principle.

I personally don't like D3 for bringing real money inside the game. If they forbid RMAH because of gambling rules in most countries that have very harsh rules about this i won't cry at all.

Also this will learn to this kind of companies that they just shouldn't cross some limits about RMT, personally when i see some browser or p2w games ripping off the teens and kids with their unacceptable prices and huge profit made from few code lines, i would really like someone to kick this snake nest for good. If Korean gambling institution start it, good.

  Skudd

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 138

10/04/11 12:00:22 AM#171

Though i never found the need to use them in my 5 years playing WoW, given an option, i'd rather not have cash shops(or RMAH) in a game. And i would actually be very happy if this move by Korea forces Blizz to remove the RMAH completely from D3.

 

But you have to be highly delusional and/or illiterate to actually belive that gambling and auctions are one and the same. 

"It is my opinion, that my opinions are always right"

  cooms

Novice Member

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 225

10/04/11 12:03:58 AM#172

Good. Hopefully Blizzard will stop trying to nickle and dime people with every new game they make. If they want my money they can add more content/expansions.

 

110% rooting for Korea to ban. This was and is still a stupid idea.

  lynshake

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/11
Posts: 26

11/10/11 11:36:34 PM#173

i think for such an wonderfil game have such things is an improve. if you do not want use this u can still enjoy another  interesting things of this game .

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