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Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » Korea May Ban D3 over Real Money Auction House trading

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173 posts found
  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/26/11 6:58:47 PM#61

I am a purist at heart, and I think a game should be a game and therefore I think RMT and microtransactions are to be avoided in games, because then you are no longer playing the game but paying to win.

And in that regard, Blizzard's WoW is one of the few examples left of an mmorpg that you don't have to pay to win.

However, the sad truth is that if Blizzard can not control the illegal RMT, no one can. They can do their best to minimize it as a whole and after that minimize it's impact.

Minimizing it's impact is what is key here, and by allowing players to legally buy and sell their items, a whole lot of the scamming and account hacking will be avoided. Every item a player buys legit from another legit player, is an item less for the botters and scammers.

 

Now labeling the D3 Auction House as gambling, especially by gamers here on the forums who should know to some extent what they are talking about, is a travesty of the truth. The only reason I can think of why someone would slander D3 and the RMT AH like that is because they have a hidden agenda to try to remove the RMT from the AH at all costs, grasping at any straw they can find.

Clearly they way it works in practice is that you "work" for your loot, and after a hard days "work" you can sell the stuff on the AH for RL cash.

The argument that you pay for the box is rediculous, but if that is the only real argument, then make the game free to play. At that time it is nothing more than a second job, like hunting deer and hoping to find a fine specimen of antlers.

 

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  Fossilz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 13

9/26/11 6:59:42 PM#62

I dunno why they would do that considering how much they love to farm gold.Wouldn't they just want to farm the items and sell those instead?

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6731

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

9/26/11 6:59:54 PM#63
Originally posted by SaintViktor

Looks like it could be the begining of the end of the RMAH. Stay tuned.....

 

Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/korea-may-ban-d3-over-real-money-trading

I commend them and was just the other day i was saying that perhaps our fuiture lies with Asian developers.We are talking not only common sense but morals.Some of these big develoeprs like Blizzard are so entrneched with their fanbase,they feel they can do whatever they want,it is time the players let them know we are not their slaves or sheep to be herd around.

This would be a HUGE step for gaming if a giant like Blizzard was turned down face first  and told we don't like your ideas.We need SOE to be slapped around a bit as well,we are headed down a VERY bad path that leads to total nonsense when comes to gaming, a casual past time.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/26/11 7:01:10 PM#64
Originally posted by SaintViktor
Originally posted by thegypsyking
Originally posted by RefMinor
I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

 Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.

Lol, okay, so bidding on items is gambling? Gee, then Ebay is the biggest gambling site on the web, strange that no one ever think about that.

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
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  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/26/11 7:03:00 PM#65
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by SaintViktor

Looks like it could be the begining of the end of the RMAH. Stay tuned.....

 

Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/korea-may-ban-d3-over-real-money-trading

I commend them and was just the other day i was saying that perhaps our fuiture lies with Asian developers.We are talking not only common sense but morals.Some of these big develoeprs like Blizzard are so entrneched with their fanbase,they feel they can do whatever they want,it is time the players let them know we are not their slaves or sheep to be herd around.

This would be a HUGE step for gaming if a giant like Blizzard was turned down face first  and told we don't like your ideas.We need SOE to be slapped around a bit as well,we are headed down a VERY bad path that leads to total nonsense when comes to gaming, a casual past time.

So our future lies with Asian devs who basically invented microtransactions and RMT? Great.

Between microtransactions and player run RMT I will choose the latter every time.

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
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Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  rothbard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/09
Posts: 251

9/26/11 7:04:01 PM#66

Totally ridiculous.  "ZOMG RMT!!! I DON'T LIKE IT! USE VIOLENCE TO FORCE THEM NOT TO HAVE IT!"  

As long as there is player exchange of items in a game there will be RMT.  Get over it.  If RMT is bad, then paying to play the game is bad, as it's the ultimate form of RMT.

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/26/11 7:08:34 PM#67
Originally posted by Ceridith
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by kitarad
Houses get put on the auction blocks too and unlike poker there is an actual virtual item here that you spent time getting. It is not based on chance. They will probably tax it.




People keep bringing this up. Nobody is transferring ownership of anything. Players are not actually buying virtual items. In theory, the government might attempt to assess a sales tax for services, but these are private sales between individuals, over the internet, probably across regional lines. No sales taxes will be taken.

However, in the United States, if you earn money, you may need to submit a personal income tax form, even if you are underage. If you earn more than $600 a year, and you have other income (from a job) where you would be paying income tax, you'll need to put that money earned on your income tax forms. That's where the government is going to collect money.

** edit **
Also, the South Korean government banned another game type thing that wasn't a gambling machine. They banned it because people acted like it was a gambling thing. All that's needed is for the people who would be playing to treat the RMAH like a way to gamble or as if they were gambling, and the South Korean government will ban it.

 

When push comes to shove, it's the government instated law that determines what ownership of virtual goods for players, not an EULA. Many nations are in the process of writing new legislation pertaining to virtual ownership of goods and taxation there of. Governments could very well give ownership and property rigths to players, but the catch is that they will be subject to taxes. And with good reason, it's a quickly growing industry that has so far largely escaped taxation.

That's the fire that Blizzard is playing with by legitimizing RMT in Diablo 3. When it was against the EULA to pariticpate in any form of RMT, the strong case could be made agaisnt ownership of virtual property by players. When the opposite occurs, and sale of virtual goods for real money between parties occurs but is avidly promoted by Blizzard, it implies a level of ownership on behalf of the seller -- you can't legally sell something you do not own.

Time will tell how it unfolds, but I can't help but feel that Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot, not to mention the rest of the industry, for their RMAH money grab.

Well Blizzard may be shooting themselves in the foot with this in regards to legislation, but I for one applaud them for this bold move.

I hate microtransactions a lot more than I hate player run RMT. With player run RMT at least someone is still playing the game.

 

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/26/11 7:16:28 PM#68
Originally posted by just2duh

 LOL that's rich, considering mostly all illegal gold/item selling that plague our MMO's come from Korea/China.

This :p

At least with Blizzard it is out in the open, and they could tax it if they want.

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
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Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 493

9/26/11 7:17:13 PM#69
Humm..
 
Seems to me this is a borderline shade of grey in many aspects.
 
For one who actually owns the property? Blizzard or the player? If the player has owernship then player can sell the item outside the AH such as on eBay.
 
Very interesting how they will word this EULA.
  rothbard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/09
Posts: 251

9/26/11 7:20:14 PM#70
Originally posted by Wizardry

Some of these big develoeprs like Blizzard are so entrneched with their fanbase,they feel they can do whatever they want,it is time the players let them know we are not their slaves or sheep to be herd around.

LMFAO.  Slaves??  Really?  Pro tip:  If you don't like the game or it's features...don't play it.

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/26/11 7:46:56 PM#71
Originally posted by sldrop
Originally posted by Lanfea

if you are really interested in this subject and open to some very good arguments, take your time and read this:

http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/09/diablo-3-and-illegal-online-gambling.html

 

and i like to add that there is another legal problem with the RMAH within D3 if we compare it with an internet portal like eBay. you have to be 18, at least in many european countries, to sell on eBay. so it might happen that blizzard is forced by law to ensure that every user of the RMAH is over 18. not really a problem on the first look, but do you know the administrative work behind confirming the age and what permissions and security measures you need as a company to get a hand on this data and this for every damn country?

 

to be honest it would be a huge failure if blizzards law department didn't thought about this before they implemented the RMAH into their game.

nice read

http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/08/rmah-is-gambling-indeed.html

By changing loot tables and random chance algorithms, Blizzard can alter volume. Volume or rarity = more listings = gambling by the players (but this is not a gamble for the house) = more listing fee revenue (the house always wins)

Selling an item is a game of chance, there's high risk involved, there's monetary loss involved due to random chance, and it's gambling. If the Auction House is changed so that there is only a cut after a successful auction, then it is not gambling. On a related note, EBay charges fees  however the fee is refunded if your item does not sell.

The article was indeed interesting, although I don't agree with the author's conclusion that in moral terms RMT between players using an auction house = gambling.

However he did make a point that charging a listing fee regardless of selling the item or not, resembles gambling, so on that point I stand corrected, and Blizzard should take that measure out.

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  CyberWiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 946

The price for freedom is eternal vigilance

9/26/11 7:49:00 PM#72

All tha being said, it would be a real shame if the RMT AH gets canned and a microtransaction scheme would replace it ...

 

If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online

  rothbard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/09
Posts: 251

9/26/11 7:53:09 PM#73

If AH is gambling, then every single action in life is gambling.  Uncertainty is always present.

  sldrop

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 112

9/26/11 7:59:48 PM#74
Originally posted by rothbard

If AH is gambling, then every single action in life is gambling.  Uncertainty is always present.

take a look at http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/08/rmah-is-gambling-indeed.html

The itmes are all random drop and all items are control by bliz(drop rate, rarity and creation).

its different from other AH

  rothbard

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/20/09
Posts: 251

9/26/11 8:02:03 PM#75
Originally posted by sldrop
Originally posted by rothbard

If AH is gambling, then every single action in life is gambling.  Uncertainty is always present.

take a look at http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/08/rmah-is-gambling-indeed.html

The itmes are all random drop and all items are control by bliz(drop rate, rarity and creation).

its different from other AH

How are drop rates part of the AH?  Sure they affect the supply of an item but so?  I thought the whole "pay to list" was what supposedly made it gambling?

  sldrop

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 112

9/26/11 8:10:05 PM#76
Originally posted by rothbard
Originally posted by sldrop
Originally posted by rothbard

If AH is gambling, then every single action in life is gambling.  Uncertainty is always present.

take a look at http://daeity.blogspot.com/2011/08/rmah-is-gambling-indeed.html

The itmes are all random drop and all items are control by bliz(drop rate, rarity and creation).

its different from other AH

How are drop rates part of the AH?  Sure they affect the supply of an item but so?  I thought the whole "pay to list" was what supposedly made it gambling?

 Blizzard can alter volume. Volume or rarity = more listings = gambling by the players 

  maxy1214

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/06
Posts: 44

9/26/11 8:11:23 PM#77

It is blizzards move to take control of their products that they try to compete with the asian RMT websites.

They may exclude the RMAH for microtransactions but those asian gold sellers wont go away. So who wins?

  sldrop

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 112

9/26/11 8:13:05 PM#78
Originally posted by maxy1214

It is blizzards move to take control of their products that they try to compete with the asian RMT websites.

They may exclude the RMAH for microtransactions but those asian gold sellers wont go away. So who wins?

rich people lol

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

9/26/11 8:14:47 PM#79
Originally posted by st4t1ck

I still dont understand why its such a big problem to put a feature in a game that you dont have to use. if you dont like it dont use it. so many people say they wont play the game because of this. Im not willing to miss out on a great game because of something i may or may not use

 

 If only it were that easy,

  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

9/26/11 8:20:23 PM#80
Originally posted by rothbard
Originally posted by Wizardry

Some of these big develoeprs like Blizzard are so entrneched with their fanbase,they feel they can do whatever they want,it is time the players let them know we are not their slaves or sheep to be herd around.

LMFAO.  Slaves??  Really?  Pro tip:  If you don't like the game or it's features...don't play it.

A growing number of people are making the choice to not play Diablo 3, or at least wait until it's in the bargain bin.

There are alternatives to Diablo 3 that will be better, cheaper, and best of all have no RMAH.

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