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Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » Korea May Ban D3 over Real Money Auction House trading

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173 posts found
  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6594

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

 
OP  9/26/11 1:50:29 PM#1

Looks like it could be the begining of the end of the RMAH. Stay tuned.....

 

Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/korea-may-ban-d3-over-real-money-trading

  RefMinor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 3539

Hipster

9/26/11 1:58:38 PM#2
I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.
  thegypsyking

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 8

9/26/11 2:05:28 PM#3
Originally posted by RefMinor
I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

Place Ad Here

  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

9/26/11 2:07:38 PM#4
Originally posted by thegypsyking
Originally posted by RefMinor
I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

How so?

When gambling you pay somebody money to get a chance to make more money.

The the RMAH you pay Blizzard money to get a chance to make some money.

In both you aren't guaranteed to make anything.

Looks like they have the same basic principles to me.

  lennpell

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 110

9/26/11 2:08:38 PM#5

This is good, because Blizzard knows koreans love these types of games and they'd lose so many sales it'd be ridic, we might just have our saving grace for the AH here guys.

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6594

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

 
OP  9/26/11 2:08:52 PM#6
Originally posted by thegypsyking
Originally posted by RefMinor
I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

 Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.

  DeathTouch

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/05
Posts: 522

9/26/11 2:11:23 PM#7

I'm just waiting for the government to scream, "WHERE ARE MY TAXES?"

  kitarad

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 855

9/26/11 2:13:51 PM#8

Houses get put on the auction blocks too and unlike poker there is an actual virtual item here that you spent time getting. It is not based on chance. They will probably tax it.

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2456

MMO gamer since 1997

9/26/11 2:14:47 PM#9

Not a big deal really. Blizzard could easily turn off the RL cash AH for korean version of the game.

Game will still have a In game AH that uses in game gold so nothings really lost imo.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  st4t1ck

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 557

9/26/11 2:16:30 PM#10

I still dont understand why its such a big problem to put a feature in a game that you dont have to use. if you dont like it dont use it. so many people say they wont play the game because of this. Im not willing to miss out on a great game because of something i may or may not use

 

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6594

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

 
OP  9/26/11 2:31:35 PM#11
Originally posted by st4t1ck

I still dont understand why its such a big problem to put a feature in a game that you dont have to use. if you dont like it dont use it. so many people say they wont play the game because of this. Im not willing to miss out on a great game because of something i may or may not use

 

 Just because it is optional doesn't make it legal.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9935

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

9/26/11 2:41:13 PM#12


Originally posted by kitarad
Houses get put on the auction blocks too and unlike poker there is an actual virtual item here that you spent time getting. It is not based on chance. They will probably tax it.



People keep bringing this up. Nobody is transferring ownership of anything. Players are not actually buying virtual items. In theory, the government might attempt to assess a sales tax for services, but these are private sales between individuals, over the internet, probably across regional lines. No sales taxes will be taken.

However, in the United States, if you earn money, you may need to submit a personal income tax form, even if you are underage. If you earn more than $600 a year, and you have other income (from a job) where you would be paying income tax, you'll need to put that money earned on your income tax forms. That's where the government is going to collect money.

** edit **
Also, the South Korean government banned another game type thing that wasn't a gambling machine. They banned it because people acted like it was a gambling thing. All that's needed is for the people who would be playing to treat the RMAH like a way to gamble or as if they were gambling, and the South Korean government will ban it.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

9/26/11 2:46:02 PM#13
Originally posted by SaintViktor

Looks like it could be the begining of the end of the RMAH. Stay tuned.....

 

Source: http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/korea-may-ban-d3-over-real-money-trading

Yeah , kudos for SK goverment :D   

  kilun

Elite Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 663

9/26/11 2:53:35 PM#14
Originally posted by SaintViktor
Originally posted by thegypsyking
Originally posted by RefMinor
I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.

 Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.

 And bidding on eBay is gambling as well then?  So is any auction in general with that analogy.  You pay a fee to put up an auction to the host(this case the host is blizzard)  they take a cut of the sale price(in their case its a flat fee regardless of final price)  Your a seller, most sellers have a monetary value attached, if people ever ran a small business(be it a table at a flea market with a cost per table) to selling on Ebay they would understand basic businesses economics 101: You got to put up money to make money.

Yes, I can without a doubt understand the thought process because frankly it is close to gambling in a sense that we want to win something and get caught up in auctions.  But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc.  In this case the buyer puts up nothing if they do not win, so it does not equal gambling.

  sonoggi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 1151

9/26/11 2:57:52 PM#15

reason theyre talking about this is that too many people in SK are addicted to games. everyone will be spending their cash on D3's items.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9935

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

9/26/11 2:59:05 PM#16


Originally posted by kilun


Originally posted by SaintViktor


Originally posted by thegypsyking


Originally posted by RefMinor
I am surprised the US will allow what is potentially a gambling shop.

The RMAH has nearly zero similarities with gambling, that's a pitiful comparison.  All we can do is wait to see how Blizzard creates what could be the new MMO standard, or the fatal flaw with D3.


 Oh really, then tell us what it is then because bidding on items on an AH is gambling.


 And bidding on eBay is gambling as well then?  So is any auction in general with that analogy.  You pay a fee to put up an auction to the host(this case the host is blizzard)  they take a cut of the sale price(in their case its a flat fee regardless of final price)  Your a seller, most sellers have a monetary value attached, if people ever ran a small business(be it a table at a flea market with a cost per table) to selling on Ebay they would understand basic businesses economics 101: You got to put up money to make money.
Yes, I can without a doubt understand the thought process because frankly it is close to gambling in a sense that we want to win something and get caught up in auctions.  But gambling is blowing money with a chance to win more money, item, etc.  In this case the buyer puts up nothing if they do not win, so it does not equal gambling.



If doesn't matter if it's technically gambling or not. What matters is how people behave with it. If people treat it as if it's gambling, it doesn't matter if it's not technically gambling. It will get banned.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Loke666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16023

9/26/11 3:00:46 PM#17

Interesting... but stupid.

The thing is that if it is OK to sell virtual items in a RMT shop it should be OK for players to sell them as well.

Either you ban both or none. That doesn't mean I like this but the law needs to be fair.

  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

9/26/11 3:00:58 PM#18
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by kitarad
Houses get put on the auction blocks too and unlike poker there is an actual virtual item here that you spent time getting. It is not based on chance. They will probably tax it.




People keep bringing this up. Nobody is transferring ownership of anything. Players are not actually buying virtual items. In theory, the government might attempt to assess a sales tax for services, but these are private sales between individuals, over the internet, probably across regional lines. No sales taxes will be taken.

However, in the United States, if you earn money, you may need to submit a personal income tax form, even if you are underage. If you earn more than $600 a year, and you have other income (from a job) where you would be paying income tax, you'll need to put that money earned on your income tax forms. That's where the government is going to collect money.

** edit **
Also, the South Korean government banned another game type thing that wasn't a gambling machine. They banned it because people acted like it was a gambling thing. All that's needed is for the people who would be playing to treat the RMAH like a way to gamble or as if they were gambling, and the South Korean government will ban it.

 

When push comes to shove, it's the government instated law that determines what ownership of virtual goods for players, not an EULA. Many nations are in the process of writing new legislation pertaining to virtual ownership of goods and taxation there of. Governments could very well give ownership and property rigths to players, but the catch is that they will be subject to taxes. And with good reason, it's a quickly growing industry that has so far largely escaped taxation.

That's the fire that Blizzard is playing with by legitimizing RMT in Diablo 3. When it was against the EULA to pariticpate in any form of RMT, the strong case could be made agaisnt ownership of virtual property by players. When the opposite occurs, and sale of virtual goods for real money between parties occurs but is avidly promoted by Blizzard, it implies a level of ownership on behalf of the seller -- you can't legally sell something you do not own.

Time will tell how it unfolds, but I can't help but feel that Blizzard is shooting themselves in the foot, not to mention the rest of the industry, for their RMAH money grab.

  Lexin

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/05
Posts: 701

Mess With The Rest
Die Like The Best!

9/26/11 3:04:28 PM#19

I don't like the RMAH but I don't even in the slightest consider it gambling. Now if you want to call something gambling just look at pretty much any F2P game and in the cash shop you buy something with a chance of winning something of value in the game.

  stayontarget

Guide

Joined: 10/04/08
Posts: 6117

Girlfriends come and go but Epic battles are Soulbound

9/26/11 3:05:38 PM#20

Bliz could always turn off that feature for the eastern market.

Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...

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