Originally posted by Bladestrom

Originally posted by SpandexDroid

That TotalBicuit is a nOOb playing this demo, I had to stop watching the video cuz the guy is just annoying.

ahh pre-beta elitism, unusual.

I'd certainly love to see SpandexDroid's pro gameplay footage. Maybe he can give us noobs some pro-tips, on how to play this unreleased game. ^_^

Originally posted by SpandexDroid

That TotalBicuit is a nOOb playing this demo, I had to stop watching the video cuz the guy is just annoying.

Hahaha. That's funny right there.

The most limiting thing about the demo videos are the limits so many players are placing on themselves. It's easy to jump into Guild Wars 2 and play your character in the way you are used to playing MMO characters in other games. However, standing still spamming skills is not the best or most effective way to play GW2. It will take time for players to adjust and start to take full advantage of the way the game plays. That's why the first 20 levels of the game are a learning experience, on top of the fun content.

Hopefully, by the time most people reach level 20, they will have had ample opportunity to shed most of the bad habits they've carried over from other games. Even in a number of these 40 minute demos, we often see game play start to improve and adapt as players get further in, but there is only so much of that you can expect from 40 minutes of game play, when youn are talking about MMO gaming habits that have been formed over hundreds or thousands of hours of game play. :)

Thanks for the link, looking forward to the 2nd one (and however many others he has pending).

In response to a vocal few of you in this thread who are complaining about the game looking WoW-ish, or the same as all the other MMOs out there, I have a hard time taking you guys seriously anymore. Do you guys really not see how this is different? After basically being smacked in the face repeatedly with multiple examples?

Anet isn't claiming that everything is different, but they have been very vocal about where they have changed the dynamics of this game vs. others in design. For one, being very action-oriented is something that has only recently begun to pickup steam in the MMO community. While the closest games to this type of play are the hero games (CoX, CO, DCUO), they are very much not the same, and they play very differently. They all have similarities in that they are action oriented, but (with the exception of CoX & CO) they have very different combat mechanics. For one, dodging attacks doesn't really work the same way in those games.

One of the key reasons (see the posted thief gameplay video within this thread) that the thief is able to herd as many mobs is because of the dodge mechanic in this game. This isn't something you really see in other MMOs. Everything is range based, and dodging is determined by a dice roll, not active.

I could go into much greater detail on this, but pleanty have already have, on all revealed aspects of the game thus far. It's almost like seeing an MMO uses numbers and writing it off for that. I hate to say it, but I honestly don't see why you're still following it if you don't seem to be all that interested.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Ezhae

Originally posted by Ryukan

Originally posted by Unknown23

....

Well we can always argue the semantics of revolutionary, but i'd say the mix of hotkey and action combat, the way the questing works, the impact of events on quests, the way you actually gain skills/spells and the PvP aspects are pretty ahead of the "generic" curve. 

What you really expect so "new" from PvPe part of gameplay tho? It's not like gaming in general evolved that much since early 90ties in that regard. All that changes year after year is visuals and responsivness. Killing mobs always will feel repetetive and dull because that's not the reason you play the game, it's a filler content and a mean to advance your character. 

Still it looks very "WoW-ish" in combat. But GW2 fans love to point out how other games aren't innovative. The PvE here is pushing a bunch of hotkeys... And joining public quests that are visible in the upper right panel...

Well two things...

First, I think it's all relative.  If you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Street Fighter, then yeah...it's pretty similar to WoW.  But if you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Rift and Aion, then I think it may seem significantly different from WoW.

Second, I can't be sure until I play the game, but from what I've heard...combat in GW2 is supposed to involve a lot more "active" movement and dynamic switching of abilities than other WoW and its clones.  Basically in WoW, if you were a healer in a group, you healed.  That's what you did.  You either healed or ran around frantically if you were getting wiped.

In GW2, everyone will be capable of healing, tanking, and DPSing in any given fight; but not all at the same time.  If the guy tanking is getting hammered and you're an elementalist, you can switch to earth attunement and tank for a bit while he recovers.  If you were trying to heal and support but your group just can't do enough damage, you could switch weapons and go DPS.

The fact that you can and are encouraged to actively switch roles in combat, makes the combat different from WoW.

But is that enough to differentiate it from WoW to the average person? I play games because of the total experience, not just because the combat is fun. Cuz really the games that focus on just combat bore me to tears. I know the developers have said story is a feature in GW2 but from what we've seen it's not very immersive. There's a location in the main city that changes based on your quest choices, and every now and then you get a cutscene with NPCs standing in one spot, with a a static 2d background.

There's a lot of quest text in some spots. And then at the other extreme you have quests where there is no quest text at all and very little voice over, you just go right into a quest and with an objective bar on the side of your screen. Some players like that in their gameplay but it's definitely more WoW-like than The Secret World in terms of questing and storytelling.

If anything it feels like GW2's strength is combat and PvP, which still has elements very similar to WoW.

The animations, graphics, and scale of the architecture is AMAZING. I'll probably buy the game, but will probably be playing most The Secret World and SWTOR for a story and immersion experience that's more different from WoW.

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Creslin321

*snip*

Well two things...

First, I think it's all relative.  If you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Street Fighter, then yeah...it's pretty similar to WoW.  But if you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Rift and Aion, then I think it may seem significantly different from WoW.

Second, I can't be sure until I play the game, but from what I've heard...combat in GW2 is supposed to involve a lot more "active" movement and dynamic switching of abilities than other WoW and its clones.  Basically in WoW, if you were a healer in a group, you healed.  That's what you did.  You either healed or ran around frantically if you were getting wiped.

In GW2, everyone will be capable of healing, tanking, and DPSing in any given fight; but not all at the same time.  If the guy tanking is getting hammered and you're an elementalist, you can switch to earth attunement and tank for a bit while he recovers.  If you were trying to heal and support but your group just can't do enough damage, you could switch weapons and go DPS.

The fact that you can and are encouraged to actively switch roles in combat, makes the combat different from WoW.

But is that enough to differentiate it from WoW to the average person? I play games because of the total experience, not just because the combat is fun. Cuz really the games that focus on just combat bore me to tears. I know the developers have said story is a feature in GW2 but from what we've seen it's not very immersive. There's a location in the main city that changes based on your quest choices, and every now and then you get a cutscene with NPCs standing in one spot, with a a static 2d background.

 

There's a lot of quest text in some spots. And then at the other extreme you have quests where there is no quest text at all and very little voice over, you just go right into a quest and with an objective bar on the side of your screen. Some players like that in their gameplay but it's definitely more WoW-like than The Secret World in terms of questing and storytelling.

 

If anything it feels like GW2's strength is combat and PvP, which still has elements very similar to WoW.

 

The animations, graphics, and scale of the architecture is AMAZING. I'll probably buy the game, but will probably be playing most The Secret World and SWTOR for a story and immersion experience that's more different from WoW.

And yet, the funny thing is that those who are well informed and have been following GW2, will struggle to look at the features and say "It's just like WoW". WoW doesn't have dynamic questing that promotes exploration, WoW doesn't offer a fully voiced single player experience, WoW doesn't have scalable open-world content, WoW's PvP doesnn't put all players on a level playing field... I could just go on an on, yet you'll likely just reply with some weak strawman arguement, like saying that because NPCs provide players with the OPTION to talk to them it's just the same questing system as WoW.

Oh well... I never really replied to try and change your mind, since you are dead set on your idea that GW2 is just like WoW. I just find it quite amusing that you say the story of SW:TOR is enough to make it a completely different experience from WoW. Whereas GW2 is doing almost the same thing with it's personal story (and lots more) but in your eyes it's still a WoW clone.

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Ezhae

Originally posted by Ryukan

Originally posted by Unknown23

....

Well we can always argue the semantics of revolutionary, but i'd say the mix of hotkey and action combat, the way the questing works, the impact of events on quests, the way you actually gain skills/spells and the PvP aspects are pretty ahead of the "generic" curve. 

What you really expect so "new" from PvPe part of gameplay tho? It's not like gaming in general evolved that much since early 90ties in that regard. All that changes year after year is visuals and responsivness. Killing mobs always will feel repetetive and dull because that's not the reason you play the game, it's a filler content and a mean to advance your character. 

Still it looks very "WoW-ish" in combat. But GW2 fans love to point out how other games aren't innovative. The PvE here is pushing a bunch of hotkeys... And joining public quests that are visible in the upper right panel...

Well two things...

First, I think it's all relative.  If you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Street Fighter, then yeah...it's pretty similar to WoW.  But if you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Rift and Aion, then I think it may seem significantly different from WoW.

Second, I can't be sure until I play the game, but from what I've heard...combat in GW2 is supposed to involve a lot more "active" movement and dynamic switching of abilities than other WoW and its clones.  Basically in WoW, if you were a healer in a group, you healed.  That's what you did.  You either healed or ran around frantically if you were getting wiped.

In GW2, everyone will be capable of healing, tanking, and DPSing in any given fight; but not all at the same time.  If the guy tanking is getting hammered and you're an elementalist, you can switch to earth attunement and tank for a bit while he recovers.  If you were trying to heal and support but your group just can't do enough damage, you could switch weapons and go DPS.

The fact that you can and are encouraged to actively switch roles in combat, makes the combat different from WoW.

But is that enough to differentiate it from WoW to the average person? I play games because of the total experience, not just because the combat is fun. Cuz really the games that focus on just combat bore me to tears. I know the developers have said story is a feature in GW2 but from what we've seen it's not very immersive. There's a location in the main city that changes based on your quest choices, and every now and then you get a cutscene with NPCs standing in one spot, with a a static 2d background.

 

There's a lot of quest text in some spots. And then at the other extreme you have quests where there is no quest text at all and very little voice over, you just go right into a quest and with an objective bar on the side of your screen. Some players like that in their gameplay but it's definitely more WoW-like than The Secret World in terms of questing and storytelling.

 

If anything it feels like GW2's strength is combat and PvP, which still has elements very similar to WoW.

 

The animations, graphics, and scale of the architecture is AMAZING. I'll probably buy the game, but will probably be playing most The Secret World and SWTOR for a story and immersion experience that's more different from WoW.

I simply wonder why and since quest texts became something bad. If you are dyslectic I would understand it. Having seen videos from SWTOR beta, cutscenes for every kill 10 rats quests seem more annoying than helpfull.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Whatever happened to the cynical part of the cynical brit?

 

He is practically cheering out loud how much he loves everything about the game, even calling it the first Next Gen MMO.

Well that can only be a good thing:)

Originally posted by gruntreaper

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Whatever happened to the cynical part of the cynical brit?

 

He is practically cheering out loud how much he loves everything about the game, even calling it the first Next Gen MMO.

Well that can only be a good thing:)

It is a good thing. And to be fair, he hasn't really bashed SWTOR either. He's said, on video, that both are good games, but that GW2 is what he (personally) is looking for in a game.

Hopefully the TOR fans can realize that this means that BOTH games are looking to be good in their own ways.

Originally posted by pablorod

He still didnt showed the video were he played an elite event

Taking down that giant ghost pirate ship was supposed to be an "elite" event.  When I first saw the ship, I grew very excited.  It was certainly massive in scale and it invovled something other than running around killing tons of mobs.  Looked like it could be epic (even if that term is becoming severely overused concerning MMOs, partly because if every mundane event is made to be epic, then epic becomes the new normal relative to everything else.)  Then TB got into a trebuchet, pressed the spam attack button a few times, and the ship was sunk.  Granted, he arrived when the event was already nearly completed, but there was still a ton of time left on the event, and there didn't appear to be many other players nearby participating in the event.  I really hope there's a lot more to this event that we just didn't get to see.  

The other thing that disheartened me a little was the quest helper feature, which seemed to dominate mine (and TB's) perception of what was happening all around.  There was very little experiencing stuff happening around you, as was anticipated with the DE system, and a whole lot of reading the new quests/DEs that appear in your helper to alert you.  I know you can turn off a part of this feature, namely the map highlighting of DE locations, but I don't believe anything has been said about the auto quest helper that appears in the upper-right hand side of the screen.  Even if you can turn this off entirely, I'm afraid most other players, including the friends I'm playing with won't, which would result in me following them around everywhere, since they're automatically alerted about what's going on nearby.  

I mean by and large things still look amazing, but I definitely think this video illuminates some of the potential flaws to keep an eye on in the future.  

Originally posted by Homitu

Originally posted by pablorod

He still didnt showed the video were he played an elite event

Taking down that giant ghost pirate ship was supposed to be an "elite" event.  When I first saw the ship, I grew very excited.  It was certainly massive in scale and it invovled something other than running around killing tons of mobs.  Looked like it could be epic (even if that term is becoming severely overused concerning MMOs, partly because if every mundane event is made to be epic, then epic becomes the new normal relative to everything else.)  Then TB got into a trebuchet, pressed the spam attack button a few times, and the ship was sunk.  Granted, he arrived when the event was already nearly completed, but there was still a ton of time left on the event, and there didn't appear to be many other players nearby participating in the event.  I really hope there's a lot more to this event that we just didn't get to see.  

 

There was something fishy with this event in TB's video. I've seen comments of many different people who played through this same event during Gamescom/PAX/Eurogamer and they all said that this event was extremely hard and they failed it, because they usually had the ship down to half its HP when the time ran out and the beach was overrun with undead.

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Ezhae

Originally posted by Ryukan

Originally posted by Unknown23

....

Well we can always argue the semantics of revolutionary, but i'd say the mix of hotkey and action combat, the way the questing works, the impact of events on quests, the way you actually gain skills/spells and the PvP aspects are pretty ahead of the "generic" curve. 

What you really expect so "new" from PvPe part of gameplay tho? It's not like gaming in general evolved that much since early 90ties in that regard. All that changes year after year is visuals and responsivness. Killing mobs always will feel repetetive and dull because that's not the reason you play the game, it's a filler content and a mean to advance your character. 

Still it looks very "WoW-ish" in combat. But GW2 fans love to point out how other games aren't innovative. The PvE here is pushing a bunch of hotkeys... And joining public quests that are visible in the upper right panel...

Well two things...

First, I think it's all relative.  If you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Street Fighter, then yeah...it's pretty similar to WoW.  But if you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Rift and Aion, then I think it may seem significantly different from WoW.

Second, I can't be sure until I play the game, but from what I've heard...combat in GW2 is supposed to involve a lot more "active" movement and dynamic switching of abilities than other WoW and its clones.  Basically in WoW, if you were a healer in a group, you healed.  That's what you did.  You either healed or ran around frantically if you were getting wiped.

In GW2, everyone will be capable of healing, tanking, and DPSing in any given fight; but not all at the same time.  If the guy tanking is getting hammered and you're an elementalist, you can switch to earth attunement and tank for a bit while he recovers.  If you were trying to heal and support but your group just can't do enough damage, you could switch weapons and go DPS.

The fact that you can and are encouraged to actively switch roles in combat, makes the combat different from WoW.

But is that enough to differentiate it from WoW to the average person? I play games because of the total experience, not just because the combat is fun. Cuz really the games that focus on just combat bore me to tears. I know the developers have said story is a feature in GW2 but from what we've seen it's not very immersive. There's a location in the main city that changes based on your quest choices, and every now and then you get a cutscene with NPCs standing in one spot, with a a static 2d background.

 

There's a lot of quest text in some spots. And then at the other extreme you have quests where there is no quest text at all and very little voice over, you just go right into a quest and with an objective bar on the side of your screen. Some players like that in their gameplay but it's definitely more WoW-like than The Secret World in terms of questing and storytelling.

 

If anything it feels like GW2's strength is combat and PvP, which still has elements very similar to WoW.

 

The animations, graphics, and scale of the architecture is AMAZING. I'll probably buy the game, but will probably be playing most The Secret World and SWTOR for a story and immersion experience that's more different from WoW.

I think that's a bit of an odd thing to say since there seems to be a lot more background and lore written up for GW2 then there is for either of those other two titles.  What we hear about is how much story there will be in SWTOR, but we really haven't seen it yet.  TSW gives us some broad overviews of the world, but details are sketchy (as is fitting with a world that is supposed to be filled with mysteries to be revealed).  With GW2, everytime they release information even about a new race, there's a week long extravaganza of lore accompanying it.  And not just a handful of facts laid out in point form, but a lot of really deep, immersive information, along with a selection of prose to give the whole deal a bit of extra context.

I'm not saying that GW2's background and story will be superior to the other two because that's not a comparison that can be made until all three are released.  Even then it's pretty subjective.  But looking only at the lore aspects, ArenaNet have gone out of their way to flesh out the world prior to release, right down to the historical motivations of non-playable sentient races.  For instance, here's the write up for the Hylek, one of the many non-playable species in the game.  If that's not an incredible amount of depth to have for a non-playable race, I don't know what is.  That would be decent even for one of the five player races, but those ones get a ton more.

I believe the only way that you might not find GW2's lore to be immersive is if you don't want it to be.  That, or you simply don't want a fantasy experience at all.  That's fair of course, but it would be more accurate to say that the world isn't immersive to you -- not a blanket statement that applies to everyone.

Originally posted by star
You really have to play the game to realize how innovative/fun/Kinda-out-of-the-box it is.

You really have to break the notion that you need to remain static in combat, and once you break free of those chains the game really changes (and there's not much footage [yet!] of people doing that).

I'm hoping that as you get into the higher level areas that it punishes the players if they aren't moving. I mean make it as a gradual experience but by the time you get to the max level or around there I hope you are forced to utilize movement along with all of your skills in order to succeed. I do know they have said that the AI is still to be worked on, so what you see in the videos won't necessarily be like that when the game goes live.

Originally posted by Master10K

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Creslin321

*snip*

Well two things...

First, I think it's all relative.  If you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Street Fighter, then yeah...it's pretty similar to WoW.  But if you compare combat in GW2 to combat in Rift and Aion, then I think it may seem significantly different from WoW.

Second, I can't be sure until I play the game, but from what I've heard...combat in GW2 is supposed to involve a lot more "active" movement and dynamic switching of abilities than other WoW and its clones.  Basically in WoW, if you were a healer in a group, you healed.  That's what you did.  You either healed or ran around frantically if you were getting wiped.

In GW2, everyone will be capable of healing, tanking, and DPSing in any given fight; but not all at the same time.  If the guy tanking is getting hammered and you're an elementalist, you can switch to earth attunement and tank for a bit while he recovers.  If you were trying to heal and support but your group just can't do enough damage, you could switch weapons and go DPS.

The fact that you can and are encouraged to actively switch roles in combat, makes the combat different from WoW.

But is that enough to differentiate it from WoW to the average person? I play games because of the total experience, not just because the combat is fun. Cuz really the games that focus on just combat bore me to tears. I know the developers have said story is a feature in GW2 but from what we've seen it's not very immersive. There's a location in the main city that changes based on your quest choices, and every now and then you get a cutscene with NPCs standing in one spot, with a a static 2d background.

 

There's a lot of quest text in some spots. And then at the other extreme you have quests where there is no quest text at all and very little voice over, you just go right into a quest and with an objective bar on the side of your screen. Some players like that in their gameplay but it's definitely more WoW-like than The Secret World in terms of questing and storytelling.

 

If anything it feels like GW2's strength is combat and PvP, which still has elements very similar to WoW.

 

The animations, graphics, and scale of the architecture is AMAZING. I'll probably buy the game, but will probably be playing most The Secret World and SWTOR for a story and immersion experience that's more different from WoW.

And yet, the funny thing is that those who are well informed and have been following GW2, will struggle to look at the features and say "It's just like WoW". WoW doesn't have dynamic questing that promotes exploration, WoW doesn't offer a fully voiced single player experience, WoW doesn't have scalable open-world content, WoW's PvP doesnn't put all players on a level playing field... I could just go on an on, yet you'll likely just reply with some weak strawman arguement, like saying that because NPCs provide players with the OPTION to talk to them it's just the same questing system as WoW.

 

Oh well... I never really replied to try and change your mind, since you are dead set on your idea that GW2 is just like WoW. I just find it quite amusing that you say the story of SW:TOR is enough to make it a completely different experience from WoW. Whereas GW2 is doing almost the same thing with it's personal story (and lots more) but in your eyes it's still a WoW clone.

I don't think any major upcoming MMO is just like WoW. But the way some GW2 fans attack other upcoming MMOs calling them WoW clones when GW2 has features similar to WoW itself is strange.

WoW does have questing that promotes exploration. The quest hubs are setup to keep the player moving out exploring and running into more quests. GW2 doesn't offer a fully voiced single player experience, that's kind of my point. Sometimes there's text and a little voice over, sometimes there just a little voice over, sometimes I don't see anything in the video except a quest objective pop into the side panel with no voice over or text. But the game doesn't feel like a fully voiced story centered game. GW2 looks like it's main focus is the combat and PvP.

I'm not saying GW2 is just like WoW, I'm saying that all upcoming MMOs have something in common with WoW, and EQ, and AC... The Secret World, SWTOR, and GW2 all look like they will be fun but they are only adding some featuers that make them different from each other and earlier games. The rest stays the same.

Originally posted by Normike

GW2 doesn't offer a fully voiced single player experience, that's kind of my point.

Yes it does. Its called your personal story.

Watched alot of coverage and myself cannot see flaws other then placeholder animations for some classes and or minor stuff they wont fix in feature builds.

With that said it already looks polished and for 80%/90% complete.

Release 2011 ?

I learned from Warhammer / Aion / Rift not to get hyped anymore as they all had major flaws, but damn Guildwars2 made me wet my pants and get a hard one when looking at the Events and PvP....

If this MMO fails then no other MMO will ever please my hunger for a solid time investment.

I still have ties to Eve / WoW / Aion and when speaking 1 month ago about GW2 they laughed at me saying gtfo, after talking on vent last night with my friends i heared them come !!!!

GW2 will be BOSS

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Normike

GW2 doesn't offer a fully voiced single player experience, that's kind of my point.

Yes it does. Its called your personal story.

From a developer:

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Normike

GW2 doesn't offer a fully voiced single player experience, that's kind of my point.

Yes it does. Its called your personal story.

From a developer:

 

"The footage from the opening of the game has shown a surprising amount of in-game voice acting. Is the majority of the game fully voiced?

 

Eric Flannum: The game isn’t fully voiced. We’ve tried to use it in situations that seemed most advantageous to us. For example, if a cut-scene is playing that only you’re seeing at the time we fully voice that to provide more immersion. Every time a character says something out loud in the persistent world that multiple people can hear it’s always fully voiced; if there are two NPCs having a conversation or a character yelling instructions or asking for help, for example."

 

 

It would be cool if it was fully voiced. Hearing the NPC say two lines of dialogue and then seeing a text box pop up with 5 sentences of dialogue is confusing and really breaks story immersion for me.

 

But most people who are really interested in this game probably don't care about full voice acting anyway.

The personal story is fully voiced. Eric Flannum even says so. All cutscenes are voiced. I never said the whole game was.