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Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online

Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online 

General Discussion  » Planetside 2 and The Secret World are 3 factions

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175 posts found
  cheshyrecat

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 140

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

9/29/11 2:08:34 PM#121

Holy wall of text batman!

 

I agree with the logic of your wall o' statement though.  It's far more financially feasible to start small with only a few races/factions.  This allows for a greater level of detail and development than if they had 5 separate factions with all that is involved with creating content for those factions.

 

But we can all hope this game will be a smash hit, thus enticing THQ to add future expansions with new factions/races.

 

 

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

  cheshyrecat

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 140

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

9/29/11 2:15:27 PM#122

Also considering that THQ isn't exactly a huge company with massive financial reserves, they're going to be limited on how much money they can pour into this project.

This is their first foray into the mmo market.  If this game is even mildly successful (200k subs for example), then they'll have much more resource wise to put toward future expansions.  Here is for hoping that they knock it out of the park and hit the 1million sub mark. 

 

 

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

  popinjay

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

9/29/11 2:23:47 PM#123

1. Planetside 2

2. The Secret World

3. Prime: Battle for Dominus

4. The Repopulation (newest one I heard of)

That's the three factioned PvP games coming out that I know of next year, more than likely. That's not even counting all the free PvP games like Firefall and even the other Warhammer PvP game that's free to play from Mythic/EA. Or even counting the couple sandbox PvP games like ArcheAge as well.


I hope this game isn't charging for a sub because it's going up against some steep competition and FTP schemes...

If it is charging, I don't see them breaking 200K at all given what's going to be out there already, especially with a tarnished name from Warhammer Online.

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/29/11 2:31:54 PM#124


Originally posted by xKingdomx

Why do people keep thinking 3 sided PvP is the only way to balance something? In fact the two bigger faction and simply gang on the smaller one first than move onto 1v1?

There are many ways to balance a mechanic, 3 factions is one way, but there are so many other possiblities. The devs aren't stupid, just if they are inspired enough to design something sensational.



I've never really focused on the balance aspect in my arguments for a three faction or hybrid two faction system, but the idea is that it gives the option for balance. Two factions will pretty much always result in one faction dominating the other, and large scale PvP will be terrible unless it is all instanced. I've seen balanced triple faction systems (at least some of the time), but I have never seen a balanced two faction system.

It only takes a single well-spoken person to turn two smaller factions against a larger one, while the possibility of this happening in a two faction system is zero. The only negative aspect to a triple faction system is how easy it is to group up and find guild members, but that isn't exclusive to a three faction system. I've seen Destruction outnumber Order by 4:1, or Alliance outnumbering horde by 6:1 (my server when I played).

Unless they put strict limits on which faction you can join, neither system will be balanced. But at least with a three faction or hybrid two faction system, the option for the players to actively make a difference is always there.


Originally posted by Blasphim

Oh ya got me, you really got me. Didn't realize that adding my opinion to a discussion was counter to the definition of a forum.

Adding your opinion is one thing. Another is when your opinion is that everyone else should stop their current discussion because you say so.


Originally posted by Blasphim

Yes as far as we can tell it will be a two faction game, I say as far as we can tell because, well that's the information we have currently, and who knows, it may change. Based however upon that knowledge and information we have now, it will be a two faction game, whining about it does no good, as has been stated previously in quite a few posts here, the two faction system is not counter to "lore" for the 40k universe


I don't think anyone is or ever has argued this, so I'm not sure how it's relevant. People are arguing about which system would be better in this specific case, not whether or not they've said they'll have two factions in the game.

Whining about it has worked in the past, by the way. Developers add something horrid to a game, there is an uproar, and the developers change it. Saying "it does no good" is an assumption at best, unless of course you know the developers and their plans better than the other people here.

As for the lore, it has been stated just as much, if not more that a two faction system is in fact counter to the lore. For the factions to actually be "factions" in the same sense that every other game has, the races would have to work far more closely than they ever would in the fluff.



Originally posted by Blasphim

The previous statements have now been made false cause I am now making the oft forgotten point that the game will undergo many builds and tweeks before release. Heavens forbid that we as fans of the 40k universe slow down to take a breath before all jumping on the "it's going to fail, it's not being done right, they should do it like this" bandwagon and continuosly whine and bitch about a game and it's mechanics that we have very little info on.


Those "builds and tweaks" are going to be based on two parts play testing, one part fan outcry, twenty parts producer "marketability." Now, assuming THQ isn't riding them too hard, that means the fan outcry makes up a pretty large potion of their criticism, and any developer who completely ignores their most critical potential customers is planning to fail.

Do you really expect people to wait until the last second to whine about something they don't like? You know, the last second where it is nigh impossible to change anything? People see a bit of news, and they comment on that bit of news; that's exactly what the developers/publisher wants.

Yes, we have very little information on it, but were I a developer, I'd want to see peoples' reactions to that very little information. If all these complaints about a generic two faction system are unfounded because "two factions" actually means "hybrid two factions," then I as the developer would be happy to know I'm not treading on peoples' toes.



Originally posted by Blasphim

Captian Obvious seems to pop his head up a lot in forums, and most times he is completely unrecognizable. Even when there is solid and definite information on a game and its system, build, story, etc and it's looking to be a stellar success, the forums will do it's best to tear it down. Sometimes it takes a sledgehammer to remind the forums that early in the game development cycle we still don't know jack about the damn game, even when they release info, it's likeley to be changed in the next build.


If the developers/marketers are smart, they'll easily be able to see through the whining to understand what the poster is actually saying. Anything past "game gunna fail" has useful information whether it's full of 12 year old AOL trash talking or not. While yes, posts like mine and yours are more useful than random trash talking, marketers and developers should be able to reduce "game gunna fail cuz one side bigger lol" into "This game may have PvP balance issues in anything but instances."

This is the natural course of things, so there is really no need for someone to come in and attempt to moderate a thread because they think there is too much whining going on. People complain about things they don't like; the bigger the outcry, the more people don't like it. Saying, "don't complain until we know for sure" is like saying, "don't write your congressman until the bill has already passed."

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/29/11 2:38:29 PM#125
Originally posted by popinjay

1. Planetside 2

2. The Secret World

3. Prime: Battle for Dominus

4. The Repopulation (newest one I heard of)

 

That's the three factioned PvP games coming out that I know of next year, more than likely. That's not even counting all the free PvP games like Firefall and even the other Warhammer PvP game that's free to play from Mythic/EA. Or even counting the couple sandbox PvP games like ArcheAge as well.

 


I hope this game isn't charging for a sub because it's going up against some steep competition and FTP schemes...

If it is charging, I don't see them breaking 200K at all given what's going to be out there already, especially with a tarnished name from Warhammer Online.

I believe the failure of Warhammer Online will help more than hurt them if they do it right. Many people have ridden into Stardom piggybacking on bad publicity (e.g. Paris Hilton). Most of that publicity was aimed toward them, but in this case, DMO will be riding the bad publicity of someone else. "This is what they did wrong, and this is how we're going to fix it" is a pretty powerful statement, even if it's said indirectly.

The Warhammer name is out there and everyone will know about it, so all Vigil has to do is not screw it up. :D

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/29/11 2:45:19 PM#126
Originally posted by popinjay


I hope this game isn't charging for a sub because it's going up against some steep competition and FTP schemes...

It all boils down to quality. I played a little bit of the Wrath of Heroes beta, and it is in no risk of becoming a massive success story. People will whine a bit about monthly subscriptions, but if the game delivers what they want, it's a tiny obsticle.

 

Just as a personal example, a few years back when I got a hankering for a good PvE game, I was about a year or so off world of warcraft and decided to try DDO considering that it was free and I play a game of pen and paper D&D from time to time. The game however was just trash. Combat felt as fluid as molasses in winter, the quests were no more engaging than any other MMO, and became just downright annoying by the 5th or 6th time you had to complete them to get to the next level, soloing ranged from mildly challenging if you played a strong solo character in a relatively mild dungeon to literally impossible if you played someone without massive AC or the ability to keep healing yourself, and to top it all off groups consisted of running into an area with swords swinging randomly and clearing everything out as quickly as possible over and over and over again.

 

After about a month of that, I just decided to fork over the cash to try out wrath of the lich king and had a great time for a while. And had I known ahead of time how my F2P experiment would have ended, I'd have cut out the middle man and just gone straight for the quality game.

Moral of the story: You get what you pay for, and it's not hard to convince people of that fact.

  popinjay

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

9/29/11 2:56:22 PM#127


Originally posted by grawss


Originally posted by popinjay
1. Planetside 2
2. The Secret World
3. Prime: Battle for Dominus
4. The Repopulation (newest one I heard of)
 
That's the three factioned PvP games coming out that I know of next year, more than likely. That's not even counting all the free PvP games like Firefall and even the other Warhammer PvP game that's free to play from Mythic/EA. Or even counting the couple sandbox PvP games like ArcheAge as well.
 

I hope this game isn't charging for a sub because it's going up against some steep competition and FTP schemes...
If it is charging, I don't see them breaking 200K at all given what's going to be out there already, especially with a tarnished name from Warhammer Online.


I believe the failure of Warhammer Online will help more than hurt them if they do it right. Many people have ridden into Stardom piggybacking on bad publicity (e.g. Paris Hilton). Most of that publicity was aimed toward them, but in this case, DMO will be riding the bad publicity of someone else. "This is what they did wrong, and this is how we're going to fix it" is a pretty powerful statement, even if it's said indirectly.
The Warhammer name is out there and everyone will know about it, so all Vigil has to do is not screw it up. :D


Fame for people and fame for games don't work the same way. Paris Hilton got famous because she's an heiress (Hilton hotel chain), then later for the sex vid.

A videogame is different because people pay for them because they are popular, not because the name failed.


It's not like "Oh, I think I want to try Warhammer 40k because WAR Online failed." Usually with gamers and people, failed product names work in reverse.


The Warhammer fanbase will buy the game for sure like any other game, but that's about it by and large unless it turns out to be something really, really good.. which they'll wait to read about or see in a trial.

  popinjay

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

9/29/11 2:59:34 PM#128


Originally posted by StMichael


Originally posted by popinjay

I hope this game isn't charging for a sub because it's going up against some steep competition and FTP schemes...

Moral of the story: You get what you pay for, and it's not hard to convince people of that fact.



I only agree with this a little. RIFT is an example of an okay game that is having a hard time convincing people "they get what they pay for".

Many people expected more from how Trion hyped the game with commercials and ended up with WoWness (raiding ahoy) so they are passing on renewing even though the game is solid (but dry as toast).


This game will have the WAR online stigma as name, and also has to open trials for the larger audience in the form of betas to get rid of that.


If you don't see big betas coming out of this, don't expect people to line up and pay $60 for a game with a tarnished image.


  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/29/11 3:11:35 PM#129



Originally posted by popinja

Fame for people and fame for games don't work the same way. Paris Hilton got famous because she's an heiress (Hilton hotel chain), then later for the sex vid.
 
A videogame is different because people pay for them because they are popular, not because the name failed.

It's not like "Oh, I think I want to try Warhammer 40k because WAR Online failed." Usually with gamers and people, failed product names work in reverse.



 
Take a relatively unknown name and try to make a successful MMO without an insane amount of marketing. Possible, yes, but extremely risky and difficult. W40k may be popular, but it isn't like Star Wars where they can throw any old MMO out and let word of mouth hype the game to the moon. But with Warhammer, regardless of its failure, far more people now know about the name. It'll be easier to throw out an MMO and get far more hype than if WAR never existed.

Most people won't automatically judge a game based on the previous failures (assuming a different publisher/developer), so WAR will effectively be free advertising for DMO. They'll definitely have to do a bit to convince people it isn't going to be another failure, but that is the case for every game. People don't have as much faith as they used to.

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  popinjay

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

9/29/11 3:30:56 PM#130


Originally posted by grawss


Originally posted by popinja

Fame for people and fame for games don't work the same way. Paris Hilton got famous because she's an heiress (Hilton hotel chain), then later for the sex vid.
 
A videogame is different because people pay for them because they are popular, not because the name failed.

It's not like "Oh, I think I want to try Warhammer 40k because WAR Online failed." Usually with gamers and people, failed product names work in reverse.



 
Take a relatively unknown name and try to make a successful MMO without an insane amount of marketing. Possible, yes, but extremely risky and difficult. W40k may be popular, but it isn't like Star Wars where they can throw any old MMO out and let word of mouth hype the game to the moon. But with Warhammer, regardless of its failure, far more people now know about the name. It'll be easier to throw out an MMO and get far more hype than if WAR never existed.

Most people won't automatically judge a game based on the previous failures (assuming a different publisher/developer), so WAR will effectively be free advertising for DMO. They'll definitely have to do a bit to convince people it isn't going to be another failure, but that is the case for every game. People don't have as much faith as they used to.



I think WAR40 will be "okay" but like RIFT or any other game.


But based on it's gaming history, I don't think it's going to garner more than fans overall when it's said and done.

That said, there are a lot of Warhammer fans around so the game can live well on 100-200k, but it's highly doubtful it's going to do better than that.\


Even Space Marine is getting lukewarm results as far as a console game with a game like Gears of War 3 outshining it. The same will probably happen with WAR40k.. okay but nothing extraordinary played by fans which is good enough.

  StMichael

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God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/29/11 4:23:54 PM#131
Originally posted by popinjay
 
I think WAR40 will be "okay" but like RIFT or any other game.

 

And you're basing that on...what? A hunch? Some kind of insider info? Clarvoyance? Could you cut me in on some stock tips?

 

The MMO itself will have to earn subscriptions based on it's merits, that much is true. It's no starwars, so it doesn't have that kind of popularity to carry it to fame. But really, warcraft 3 wasn't all that much more popular before world of warcraft than warhammer is now. DMO could be a completely new and unheard of IP, and it could still do great if the game itself is what it needs to be.

  cheshyrecat

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9/29/11 5:05:32 PM#132
Originally posted by popinjay

I think WAR40 will be "okay" but like RIFT or any other game.


But based on it's gaming history, I don't think it's going to garner more than fans overall when it's said and done.

 

That said, there are a lot of Warhammer fans around so the game can live well on 100-200k, but it's highly doubtful it's going to do better than that.


Even Space Marine is getting lukewarm results as far as a console game with a game like Gears of War 3 outshining it. The same will probably happen with WAR40k.. okay but nothing extraordinary played by fans which is good enough.

I'm curious as to what reviews you've read that paint Space Marine as being just 'Ok'?  Everyone i've spoken with and every review I've read pretty much say the same thing.  Space Marine was a great game.  Perfect? no, but easily worth the price. 

And considering that many mmos that are released can't maintain 200k subs, I don't think 200k is "OK".  I think that's success.  Certainly not great success but a good start.  Far better that THQ achieve "a good start" then shoot too high and fail completely.

 

 

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

  kitarad

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9/29/11 5:10:15 PM#133

Well okay it sounded good in my head but after you listed the problems not so much.

  popinjay

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9/29/11 6:28:44 PM#134


Originally posted by cheshyrecat

I'm curious as to what reviews you've read that paint Space Marine as being just 'Ok'?



Metacritic

  popinjay

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Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

9/29/11 6:33:12 PM#135


Originally posted by StMichael


Originally posted by popinjay
 
I think WAR40 will be "okay" but like RIFT or any other game.
 


And you're basing that on...what? A hunch? Some kind of insider info? Clarvoyance? Could you cut me in on some stock tips?
 


Your sarcasm aside, that is just as good a guess as whatever is cooked up in your head as an obvious unobjective person.


It's called "opinion". As in .. forums?


Sorry to tell you but no one knows what will happen for sure until launch. Until then, YOU, me and anyone else is guessing. That's the fun of the forum game.. welcome to it.

  cheshyrecat

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We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

9/29/11 6:54:30 PM#136
Originally posted by popinjay

 


Originally posted by cheshyrecat

I'm curious as to what reviews you've read that paint Space Marine as being just 'Ok'?



Metacritic

 

 

77 out of 100 is just okay?  fair enough.  I can't argue with that opinion.  I thought it was a great game as did many of the reviewers.  A few of the reviews seemed a bit excessive in their critique.  To each his own I guess.

 

 

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

  StMichael

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9/29/11 8:57:57 PM#137
Originally posted by popinjay

 


Originally posted by StMichael


Originally posted by popinjay
 
I think WAR40 will be "okay" but like RIFT or any other game.
 



And you're basing that on...what? A hunch? Some kind of insider info? Clarvoyance? Could you cut me in on some stock tips?
 


Your sarcasm aside, that is just as good a guess as whatever is cooked up in your head as an obvious unobjective person.

 


It's called "opinion". As in .. forums?


Sorry to tell you but no one knows what will happen for sure until launch. Until then, YOU, me and anyone else is guessing. That's the fun of the forum game.. welcome to it.


But you likened it to Rift, which, apart from the fact that they're both MMOs, has nothing in common. Standard MMO gameplay vs 3rd person shooter, fantasy vs sci-fi, PvE focus vs equal parts PvP and PvE, everything we actually know about DMO is very different from Rift.

 

For better or worse is what remains to be seen, and on that end your guess is as good as mine.

  lizardbones

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9/29/11 9:42:24 PM#138


Originally posted by cheshyrecat


Originally posted by popinjay
 



Originally posted by cheshyrecat
I'm curious as to what reviews you've read that paint Space Marine as being just 'Ok'?




Metacritic

 
 
77 out of 100 is just okay?  fair enough.  I can't argue with that opinion.  I thought it was a great game as did many of the reviewers.  A few of the reviews seemed a bit excessive in their critique.  To each his own I guess.
 
 



It's #12 out of all of the games rated on Metacritic for the PC by users. I wouldn't call that mediocre. If it were a $60 game, then yeah, I'd call it too much money, but it's in the $50 range, soon to be the $40 range on Steam. That's probably when I'll pick it up.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  popinjay

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Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

9/29/11 11:20:22 PM#139


Originally posted by cheshyrecat


Originally posted by popinjay
 



Originally posted by cheshyrecat
I'm curious as to what reviews you've read that paint Space Marine as being just 'Ok'?




Metacritic

 
 
77 out of 100 is just okay?  fair enough.  I can't argue with that opinion.  I thought it was a great game as did many of the reviewers.  A few of the reviews seemed a bit excessive in their critique.  To each his own I guess.
 
 


Yeah, if you look at it like a grade, under 80 would be a "C", which is average. That's kind of what I thought about Space Marine myself.


Fun in spots but mostly average because the game played like this:


MOBS!!!!!...............MOBS!!!!!...............MOBS!!!!!............MOBS!!!!!....teenyweenybossfight. (The dots were long stretches where you just ran through empty streets and hallways with nothing to fight and cutscenes.)

The boss fight in that game was so moronically easy, I'm not sure it could even be called a boss fight.

You end up with a God of War minigame pressing X,X,X,X,then BBBBBBBBBB. X,X,X,X, BBBBBBBBB, X,X,X,X, Y, BBBBB.. it was almost like the guys who made it just gave up at the end for difficulty.

A few reviewers were brutal, but on the other side a few reviewers were acting as if they were paid so they balance out.

  popinjay

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Posts: 6638

Aaron Rodgers>Brett Favre

9/29/11 11:36:02 PM#140


Originally posted by StMichael


Originally posted by popinjay
 



Originally posted by StMichael




Originally posted by popinjay
 
I think WAR40 will be "okay" but like RIFT or any other game.
 




And you're basing that on...what? A hunch? Some kind of insider info? Clarvoyance? Could you cut me in on some stock tips?
 




Your sarcasm aside, that is just as good a guess as whatever is cooked up in your head as an obvious unobjective person.
 

It's called "opinion". As in .. forums?

Sorry to tell you but no one knows what will happen for sure until launch. Until then, YOU, me and anyone else is guessing. That's the fun of the forum game.. welcome to it.

But you likened it to Rift, which, apart from the fact that they're both MMOs, has nothing in common. Standard MMO gameplay vs 3rd person shooter, fantasy vs sci-fi, PvE focus vs equal parts PvP and PvE, everything we actually know about DMO is very different from Rift.
 
For better or worse is what remains to be seen, and on that end your guess is as good as mine.



No I didn't "liken" it to RIFT. I said it will probably end up in the same category as RIFT with it's own niche fans. That's not comparing it as far as a shooter or a DIKU MMO or something, and I'm not sure how you stretch it to that.


When I say it will be like any other MMO (like RIFT), I mean it's going to have a niche crowd. RIFT's niche crowd are going to be PvE dungeon raiders.. the PvP people will gravitation to the more PvP games instead when they are released, and there is a ton coming.


I don't know what WAR40K focus is (PvP or PvE) mainly, but that's not the point. The point is the basic fan will have to have a desire for this type of game (WoW friendly like WoW according to the VP) which will make it niche, since people are moving away from WoW type gaming anymore.


I'm wondering how closely you read what I wrote because I already said before you, that your guess is as good as mine since it isn't launched.

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