Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Elder Scrolls Online | World of Warcraft | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,950,690 Users Online:0
Games:778  Posts:6,375,017
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Chronicles Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online

Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online 

General Discussion  » Planetside 2 and The Secret World are 3 factions

9 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Last Search
175 posts found
  xKingdomx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 1550

9/24/11 6:22:53 AM#81
Originally posted by StMichael
Originally posted by xKingdomx

Stop thinking there is only one way to do things, that is the reason why we even have the 'clone' phase started, because most developers think there are only one way to make a good MMO.

So instead of coming up with something creative on the mechanics side to compliment the lore-based decision, they should clone a game that better suits your tastes?

That's really all I'm hearing. They shouldn't go with us vs them, because that would be cloning. Instead, they should be "original" and mimic an eleven year old game based on nothing more than some fantasy theory of "balance."

Which path is the real clone? Making your own adaptation of a two sided struggle, or following in the footsteps of a 3 sided one?

Well if you actually read the OP and my post better, you would realise he was stating the necessary need for a 3rd faction in order for proper pvp balance.

 

Then my first sentence which you edited out,

"they can always just make server vs server vs server, or WvWvW like GW2. Introducing a faction for the the sake of introducing it will be fail, no matter what the intentions are."

was just saying, as long as there are three sides to the battle, it doesn't really matter if it is a faction or not, eg: thee different servers playing against each other like GW2 or even a devs controlled third faction, then they can easily use spawn characters to balance out population issues whenever they want. their AI won't be perfect, but letting them control the population will be beneficial.

My second paragraph is saying that, if people are focus on using one particular way to solve a design issue, everything will be attribute the the idea of 'cloning'

I'm never said this particular idea is cloning.

How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  Yimmarans

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/06
Posts: 27

"Two Minutes in heaven is better than.... One Minute in heaven" - Flight of the Concords

9/24/11 6:33:52 AM#82
Originally posted by StMichael

Hold on a second, you're willing to bitch and whine about a game you know next to nothing about based on its lack of inclusion of a game system that has been used in all of 2 games to date (neither of which really achieved any real success) and I'M the close-minded one?

I'm done. You won't listen to anything I say because it flies in the face of your precious 3 faction dogma. At the end of all this, I'm still getting the game I want instead of having to whine on an unofficial forum about not getting my way. When it finally gets released, you can either play it, or put faith in SoE to make a good game.

Your measure of 'any real success' is flawed.  DAoC had quite a lot of success, as did Planetside before their transformer patch.  If your measure of success in the MMO world is WoW, that's like saying you're not successful unless you are least as reach as Bill Gates... O_o

  Feydiir

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/08
Posts: 24

9/24/11 12:14:28 PM#83
Originally posted by Yimmarans
Originally posted by StMichael

Hold on a second, you're willing to bitch and whine about a game you know next to nothing about based on its lack of inclusion of a game system that has been used in all of 2 games to date (neither of which really achieved any real success) and I'M the close-minded one?

I'm done. You won't listen to anything I say because it flies in the face of your precious 3 faction dogma. At the end of all this, I'm still getting the game I want instead of having to whine on an unofficial forum about not getting my way. When it finally gets released, you can either play it, or put faith in SoE to make a good game.

Your measure of 'any real success' is flawed.  DAoC had quite a lot of success, as did Planetside before their transformer patch.  If your measure of success in the MMO world is WoW, that's like saying you're not successful unless you are least as reach as Bill Gates... O_o

You have to also put into account that those games were big before most MMO's really got big.

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/24/11 2:15:34 PM#84

Replace dark age with GW2 then. It's still taking an idea and blatantly ripping it off, even if pitting servers against one another makes no sense for DMO considering you'd have races fighting against themselves. I also straight up disagree with the notion that a 3rd side is "necessary" for a good PvP game. All it does for a game is create chaos and promote ganging up on the weakest side. The whole "2 faction PvP is unbalanced! The strong only get stronger!" mantra is game specific and a direct result of that game's design decisions. DMO is in a strong position (which they've indicated is a "pillar" to their game) of using vehicles as the battlefield equalizer. Sides of mismatched players can easily be evened out with a vindicator here, a wartrukk there, and so on.

 

So I ask you again, which one's the clone? Original thought, or copying another game?

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/24/11 2:45:13 PM#85
Originally posted by Feydiir
Originally posted by Yimmarans
Originally posted by StMichael

Hold on a second, you're willing to bitch and whine about a game you know next to nothing about based on its lack of inclusion of a game system that has been used in all of 2 games to date (neither of which really achieved any real success) and I'M the close-minded one?

I'm done. You won't listen to anything I say because it flies in the face of your precious 3 faction dogma. At the end of all this, I'm still getting the game I want instead of having to whine on an unofficial forum about not getting my way. When it finally gets released, you can either play it, or put faith in SoE to make a good game.

Your measure of 'any real success' is flawed.  DAoC had quite a lot of success, as did Planetside before their transformer patch.  If your measure of success in the MMO world is WoW, that's like saying you're not successful unless you are least as reach as Bill Gates... O_o

You have to also put into account that those games were big before most MMO's really got big.

Let's compare them to Everquest then. It was released 2 years before dark age, and 4 years before Planetside, yet while the original Everquest still has over a hundred thousand subscribers as of mid 2010 and peaked around five hundred thousand in 2003, Dark Age peaked around half that at 250k subscriptions max, and now runs somewhere around 4k subs. Planetside is even worse, peaking at just 60k subs a few months after release, and having a swift decline into server mergers soon after, and only 1 global server left.

 

They have been weighed, measured, and found wanting. If you want sources, do some research yourself and find out.

  loradove

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 62

9/24/11 2:50:31 PM#86

All, just a friendly reminder here. Please be respectful to others when voicing your opinions and not harass others no matter what other people's opinions are on any games.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/24/11 3:59:15 PM#87


Originally posted by StMichael
Replace dark age with GW2 then. It's still taking an idea and blatantly ripping it off, even if pitting servers against one another makes no sense for DMO considering you'd have races fighting against themselves. I also straight up disagree with the notion that a 3rd side is "necessary" for a good PvP game. All it does for a game is create chaos and promote ganging up on the weakest side. The whole "2 faction PvP is unbalanced! The strong only get stronger!" mantra is game specific and a direct result of that game's design decisions. DMO is in a strong position (which they've indicated is a "pillar" to their game) of using vehicles as the battlefield equalizer. Sides of mismatched players can easily be evened out with a vindicator here, a wartrukk there, and so on.
 
So I ask you again, which one's the clone? Original thought, or copying another game?



There are very few original ideas left for most video games. You can get incremental upgrades in ideas but most of the major stuff has been done. Everyone is ripping everyone off because that's how the gaming industry works. That's how you get progress.

The game won't succeed or fail based on the number of factions. It will succeed or fail based on everything else in the game combined. Just like every other game out there.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

9/24/11 4:08:34 PM#88
Originally posted by StMichael

Replace dark age with GW2 then. It's still taking an idea and blatantly ripping it off, even if pitting servers against one another makes no sense for DMO considering you'd have races fighting against themselves. I also straight up disagree with the notion that a 3rd side is "necessary" for a good PvP game. All it does for a game is create chaos and promote ganging up on the weakest side. The whole "2 faction PvP is unbalanced! The strong only get stronger!" mantra is game specific and a direct result of that game's design decisions. DMO is in a strong position (which they've indicated is a "pillar" to their game) of using vehicles as the battlefield equalizer. Sides of mismatched players can easily be evened out with a vindicator here, a wartrukk there, and so on.

 

So I ask you again, which one's the clone? Original thought, or copying another game?

Bleh, you talk nonsense. Either when trying the "copying" argument or "game balance". Just plain nonsense. Take a primer on game theory 101 and then we can have a talk. This is ridiculous. 

You can argue that vehicle availability can be a balancing mechanism but it just shows to tell how inherently unbalanced 2 faction system is because you need arbitrary balancing mechanism to keep the thing from concluding... Which is not always a bad thing, mind you. If you want the game to eventually end with a clear winner then you lump players into 2 opposing factions. In instanced scenarios, for example. Or particular battles in open world. That's like 1+1=2 man. Read up, think and then we can talk.

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/24/11 4:28:01 PM#89
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk
Originally posted by StMichael

Replace dark age with GW2 then. It's still taking an idea and blatantly ripping it off, even if pitting servers against one another makes no sense for DMO considering you'd have races fighting against themselves. I also straight up disagree with the notion that a 3rd side is "necessary" for a good PvP game. All it does for a game is create chaos and promote ganging up on the weakest side. The whole "2 faction PvP is unbalanced! The strong only get stronger!" mantra is game specific and a direct result of that game's design decisions. DMO is in a strong position (which they've indicated is a "pillar" to their game) of using vehicles as the battlefield equalizer. Sides of mismatched players can easily be evened out with a vindicator here, a wartrukk there, and so on.

 

So I ask you again, which one's the clone? Original thought, or copying another game?

Bleh, you talk nonsense. Either when trying the "copying" argument or "game balance". Just plain nonsense. Take a primer on game theory 101 and then we can have a talk. This is ridiculous. 

You can argue that vehicle availability can be a balancing mechanism but it just shows to tell how inherently unbalanced 2 faction system is because you need arbitrary balancing mechanism to keep the thing from concluding... Which is not always a bad thing, mind you. If you want the game to eventually end with a clear winner then you lump players into 2 opposing factions. In instanced scenarios, for example. Or particular battles in open world. That's like 1+1=2 man. Read up, think and then we can talk.

What the hell are you talking about? I can't even decipher what your "claim" is supposed to be in that mess. And what are your credentials on game design to be telling me to go learn game theory 101?

  warmaster670

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/08
Posts: 1441

9/24/11 4:31:31 PM#90
Originally posted by StMichael
Originally posted by xKingdomx

Stop thinking there is only one way to do things, that is the reason why we even have the 'clone' phase started, because most developers think there are only one way to make a good MMO.

So instead of coming up with something creative on the mechanics side to compliment the lore-based decision, they should clone a game that better suits your tastes?

That's really all I'm hearing. They shouldn't go with us vs them, because that would be cloning. Instead, they should be "original" and mimic an eleven year old game based on nothing more than some fantasy theory of "balance."

Which path is the real clone? Making your own adaptation of a two sided struggle, or following in the footsteps of a 3 sided one?

This, "dont copy them, copy this instead" is pretty much what this is all about, no where has anyone proven that having 3 factions will magically balance the game, it certainly didnt in planetside, not when i played.

Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  Spalliero

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/07
Posts: 150

9/24/11 4:57:17 PM#91
Ok so let's put this out there. Basically we want more from the game while st mike wants less. We prove that the game is much more than two sided, even talking to GW, the owners, creators, and caretakers of 40k. We state we want more by showing the trend of th industry to multiple sided conflicts, we even go so far as to offer a way the game could have 2 sides and then develop more. Then we are told we aren't listening? Lolz we are being ignored and argued with ignorantly. It's like a politician, we can show all the proof in the world but some people just will not believe it and in point of fact say the exact opposite just cause that's what they want to believe. Here are the facts from GW; 40k is multiple sided conflict ip. Here are the facts from developers; Games can, have been, are being and will be made with multiple sided conflict scenarios. THESE ARE FACTS, GET ON THE FACTS SO THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND FAIR!

Sic Luceat Lux

  quotheraving

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/10
Posts: 279

9/25/11 1:11:50 PM#92
Originally posted by Spalliero
Ok so let's put this out there. Basically we want more from the game while st mike wants less. We prove that the game is much more than two sided, even talking to GW, the owners, creators, and caretakers of 40k. We state we want more by showing the trend of th industry to multiple sided conflicts, we even go so far as to offer a way the game could have 2 sides and then develop more. Then we are told we aren't listening? Lolz we are being ignored and argued with ignorantly. It's like a politician, we can show all the proof in the world but some people just will not believe it and in point of fact say the exact opposite just cause that's what they want to believe. Here are the facts from GW; 40k is multiple sided conflict ip. Here are the facts from developers; Games can, have been, are being and will be made with multiple sided conflict scenarios. THESE ARE FACTS, GET ON THE FACTS SO THAT YOU ARE RIGHT AND FAIR!

Typing in capitals does not make your statements any more believable especially when you are attempting to argue against a straw man rather than against what st.M is actually saying.

Sure you aren't listening, you certainly aren't understanding.

Misrepresenting the other's views in order to argue against that rather than actually addressing their points, now that really is the sort of thing disreputable 'politicians' do.

  Spalliero

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/07
Posts: 150

9/25/11 9:56:04 PM#93

Ok raving, typing in caps locks is a way to emphasize my final statement and point of my post.

If read the posts we've had in the past I've proven I have listened, even calling people st mike had referenced to support his pov, they totally disagreed with him so he was speaking falsely for them. I have also triedd possible seeding ideas that incorporate 2 sided conflicts in pvp and then escalating to multiple sided in a series of possible scenarios, just ideas.

In the end I am representing a pov that is truer to the ip. We can either wait for a mediocre game or we can voice our fan and ip supported views early enough to hopefully change the game to be better and or more progressive.

The politian references is about sleigh of hand and speaking falsely for others, I haven't done either yet. So well ARE YOU LISTENING?

Sic Luceat Lux

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 957

9/25/11 10:00:32 PM#94

As an MMO the game reallyn eeds a minimum of 3 factions to succeed IMHO.

  Razephon

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 624

9/26/11 2:19:39 PM#95
Originally posted by TheCrow2k

As an MMO the game reallyn eeds a minimum of 3 factions to succeed IMHO.

Agreed, but we have to wait and see what Vigil say about the game at E3 2012.

Currently Playing Random shizzle!
Waiting on TERA, GW2, TSW

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/26/11 2:43:17 PM#96


Originally posted by Spalliero
Ok raving, typing in caps locks is a way to emphasize my final statement and point of my post.

If read the posts we've had in the past I've proven I have listened, even calling people st mike had referenced to support his pov, they totally disagreed with him so he was speaking falsely for them. I have also triedd possible seeding ideas that incorporate 2 sided conflicts in pvp and then escalating to multiple sided in a series of possible scenarios, just ideas.

In the end I am representing a pov that is truer to the ip. We can either wait for a mediocre game or we can voice our fan and ip supported views early enough to hopefully change the game to be better and or more progressive.

The politian references is about sleigh of hand and speaking falsely for others, I haven't done either yet. So well ARE YOU LISTENING?




Most of the people who are going to buy the game haven't heard of Warhammer and they definitely haven't played a Warhammer PnP game. Those players, the ones who will make development of the game profitable do not care that the game doesn't have three factions. Those people just want a fun game to play.

Anyway, the developer is more than 50% of the way through development on the game. They are not going to add another faction at this point. When the game releases, it will have two factions and that's it.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Razephon

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/05
Posts: 624

9/26/11 5:16:09 PM#97
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Spalliero
Ok raving, typing in caps locks is a way to emphasize my final statement and point of my post.

 

If read the posts we've had in the past I've proven I have listened, even calling people st mike had referenced to support his pov, they totally disagreed with him so he was speaking falsely for them. I have also triedd possible seeding ideas that incorporate 2 sided conflicts in pvp and then escalating to multiple sided in a series of possible scenarios, just ideas.

In the end I am representing a pov that is truer to the ip. We can either wait for a mediocre game or we can voice our fan and ip supported views early enough to hopefully change the game to be better and or more progressive.

The politian references is about sleigh of hand and speaking falsely for others, I haven't done either yet. So well ARE YOU LISTENING?




Most of the people who are going to buy the game haven't heard of Warhammer and they definitely haven't played a Warhammer PnP game. Those players, the ones who will make development of the game profitable do not care that the game doesn't have three factions. Those people just want a fun game to play.

Anyway, the developer is more than 50% of the way through development on the game. They are not going to add another faction at this point. When the game releases, it will have two factions and that's it.

 

I hope you realise that a LOT of people will have heard of Warhammer Age of Reckoning. On top of that the W40k Franchise spans several games. Lets not forget the novel/tabletop community as well.

Now in spite of that, yes there will still be a lot of people who will play this game who haven't heard of Warhammer 40k. A Large majority of them won't be first time MMO players. Most would have played an MMO or 2 and it would have likely been either WoW / RIFT / SWTOR. They would be familiar with faction based systems and may not like 2 factions....anyway its all speculation. But don't underestimate the number of people who are bored with the same 2 faction crap thats been going on for years. Just because it worked for WoW doesn't mean it'll work for everything else.

The developers have been pretty much silent about how the game is progressing and just exactly what it will be for some time now. So it would be safe to say we are quite unfamiliar with what the game will actually be. Despite the stuff we heard way back in 2010.

Currently Playing Random shizzle!
Waiting on TERA, GW2, TSW

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/26/11 8:34:02 PM#98

Stop giving StMichael attention. He's clearly a troll, and I'll show you why I say that:
 


Originally posted by StMichael

So instead of coming up with something creative on the mechanics side to compliment the lore-based decision, they should clone a game that better suits your tastes?
 
That's really all I'm hearing. They shouldn't go with us vs them, because that would be cloning. Instead, they should be "original" and mimic an eleven year old game based on nothing more than some fantasy theory of "balance."
Which path is the real clone? Making your own adaptation of a two sided struggle, or following in the footsteps of a 3 sided one?



 
Almost all his arguments are like this and can be picked apart in the same way. Trolls tend to give arguments that are clearly wrong in order to insight responses, especially angry responses.

In this quote, he is saying a two-faction system would be an adaptation of other two-faction systems, therefore not entirely cloning other games' systems. But what he clearly fails to mention is that his exact argument of "it wouldn't be a clone" can be applied to a three-faction system. After all, if an adaptation of a two-faction system can be made, why not a system with more factions?

So either he is a troll and intentionally putting obvious flaws in his arguments, or he just isn't that smart.

I'll take it further:
 


Originally posted by StMichael

If you create a 3 faction MMO under the warhammer 40k IP, you have locked yourself into whatever it is you're able to start with. If it happens to be only 3 races, you'll never see more than 3 playable races in the same game. I've already explained why that is earlier.
Adding a faction into a game after launch (or even after beta) is about as much work as just making a whole new game. So we can either go with order vs destruction and have a well made, expandable game that still has a strong foundation in the 40k IP, or we can try and scrap what we already have, start over with a non-expandable multi-faction game and just pray that it's even halfway decent when it launches.



 
In this argument, he claims that having a three faction system will prevent them from adding any more, effectively "locking them in," and then goes to claim that a two-faction game will be expandable.

The obvious flaw is the fact that they are further locking themselves in with a two-faction system. Mike is assuming that the two-faction system will have some magical properties which make the addition of new races more believable than adding them to a three-faction system. In this argument as well as the previous, he gives all the benefit to his argument while his point applies equally to both.
 


Originally posted by StMichael

How would adding a 3rd faction to a 2 faction game be any different from adding a 4th faction to a 3 faction game? Besides of course the idea of finding credible allies to populate said 3rd faction.
 

2 faction fights are by their nature much more open ended than 3. Take just about every competetive game or sport out there and break it down to its basic mechanics, and you have that many options for 2 factions to fight. "Us vs Them" was what allowed Mythic to come up with all the different scenarios in the various rulesets they have. Think of all the modes of gameplay that wouldn't be possible across any number of games with 3 sides. You'd be limited only to those that worked for 3 sides. I'd be willing to bet that Planetside won't have scenarios/battlegrounds/whatever, and even if they do, it will be only 1 or 2 rulesets across different maps.



 
Just like the previous arguments, this one involves favoring a two-faction system while ignoring the obvious fact that everything he claims is possible with a three-faction system. What's stopping Vigil from making a 1v1 battleground? Nothing.

And these are just a few samples that I recall off the top of my head. Almost everything he posts has a clear and obvious flaw. Not just regular flaws that makes an argument 'less correct,' but flaws so absurd as to make the act of replying feel like a waste of time.
There are definitely merits to a two-faction system, but if I were one of the supporters, I definitely wouldn't want StMichael arguing for us. I suggest letting this post be the last bit of attention he's given.

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/26/11 8:47:10 PM#99
Originally posted by lizardbones

Most of the people who are going to buy the game haven't heard of Warhammer and they definitely haven't played a Warhammer PnP game. Those players, the ones who will make development of the game profitable do not care that the game doesn't have three factions. Those people just want a fun game to play.

Anyway, the developer is more than 50% of the way through development on the game. They are not going to add another faction at this point. When the game releases, it will have two factions and that's it.

 

You're correct, most people don't know the lore. But you can't rule out those that do know it.

 

I don't mean to say that they should make the game specifically for those who know the lore without compromise; that would make the game unapproachable. What I am saying is if they do something the fans find egregious, the fallout will cause immense amounts of harm to the game's success. People know the story behind WAR now. People have seen how imbalanced the two factions were in that game. And with this knowledge, those who know the lore will fight ever-harder to avoid having DMO fall into the same issues whether or not WAR's demise was actually caused by having only two factions.

 

This isn't the kind of bad publicity that spreads like wildfire and eventually makes a positive impact on the game's success. This is the kind of publicity that will cause a large amount of people who are already looking for an MMO to turn away.

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  AutemOx

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1719

9/26/11 8:53:34 PM#100

3 factions rocks.

Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.

9 Pages First « 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 » Last Search