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Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online

Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online 

General Discussion  » Planetside 2 and The Secret World are 3 factions

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175 posts found
  heavyhebrew

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/10
Posts: 313

R.I.P Ass Dan. He ate the dirt, yo.

9/14/11 8:18:07 PM#41

The Imperium of Man stands at the precipe of greatness or disaster.

The eldar fight an inevitable battle against extinction.

The ork are a manifestation of supremely advanced biological warfare.

Chaos are slaves to their dark gods.

The dark eldar are the ash and embers of of the eldar before the Fall.

I will beat the dead horse one more time. It must always be said, the key to success with the warhammer ip will always be a 3 or more faction game. Take the game Space Marine and iterate that into an mmo. Leave out the rpg bit, that gets done for the game naturally everytime some khornate player cries "Blood for the blood god!".

Give us some mayhem. Oh and if you are going to put orks into an mmo, you had best have The Kult Of Speed in it.

Come on Vigil, listen to the people!

TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!

Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!

Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/15/11 11:28:36 AM#42
Originally posted by heavyhebrew

I will beat the dead horse one more time. It must always be said, the key to success with the warhammer ip will always be a 3 or more faction game. Take the game Space Marine and iterate that into an mmo. Leave out the rpg bit, that gets done for the game naturally everytime some khornate player cries "Blood for the blood god!".

If you create a 3 faction MMO under the warhammer 40k IP, you have locked yourself into whatever it is you're able to start with. If it happens to be only 3 races, you'll never see more than 3 playable races in the same game. I've already explained why that is earlier.

Adding a faction into a game after launch (or even after beta) is about as much work as just making a whole new game. So we can either go with order vs destruction and have a well made, expandable game that still has a strong foundation in the 40k IP, or we can try and scrap what we already have, start over with a non-expandable multi-faction game and just pray that it's even halfway decent when it launches.

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/15/11 12:08:43 PM#43
Originally posted by StMichael
Originally posted by heavyhebrew

I will beat the dead horse one more time. It must always be said, the key to success with the warhammer ip will always be a 3 or more faction game. Take the game Space Marine and iterate that into an mmo. Leave out the rpg bit, that gets done for the game naturally everytime some khornate player cries "Blood for the blood god!".

If you create a 3 faction MMO under the warhammer 40k IP, you have locked yourself into whatever it is you're able to start with. If it happens to be only 3 races, you'll never see more than 3 playable races in the same game. I've already explained why that is earlier.

Adding a faction into a game after launch (or even after beta) is about as much work as just making a whole new game. So we can either go with order vs destruction and have a well made, expandable game that still has a strong foundation in the 40k IP, or we can try and scrap what we already have, start over with a non-expandable multi-faction game and just pray that it's even halfway decent when it launches.

Eh? We already know they're willing to toss out the lore in favor of gameplay (gameplay is subjective), which they could still do were we to have another race thrown into the fray later on; just dump them into a current faction if required. Having three rather than two actually gives them more options as long as they proactively balance the population. They could add a single race rather than try to make everything equal by adding two, for example.

Aside from that, I also disagree about it being more work to add a faction, especially if you already have more than two. It is of course on a case by case basis and in some cases it'll be harder, but from a programmer's standpoint it is just as difficult as adding another race to a current faction. Hostilities, permissions, etc still have to be written in, or copied in which can be done with factions as well. New quests/missions still have to be written in, new models still have to be created, and battlegrounds/areas/etc can basically stay the same assuming they were planning for the future. From what I've heard, they're allowing flanking and other battlefield manuevers that require a lot of space, so I doubt another faction being thrown in would need another spot to start in (this depends entirely on the layout, however).

But yeah, I'm worried as well about how much it'll eat into the game progress. They don't seem to have their deadline as set as other MMOs, so all it may do is push it back three months. On the other hand, WAR did some kind of huge revamp later in the game and it cost them dearly. I blame a lot of that on the publishers nagging on them. I guess we'll find out the final results relatively shortly. :P

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/15/11 3:05:30 PM#44

Most of the work is in map creation. Granted, there's a fair bit of work to be done in figuring out mechanics and debugging code and such, but those are startup costs, once you have them you can move them around and reuse them easily. The amount of work required to increase the total number of factions however has huge logistical issues involved though. I'll use warhammer online as an example because it's easy to visualize. To add a 3rd faction to WAR, in addition to the cost of making 3 additional races (art, animation, sound etc) which would be the same regardless of whether they added them as a new faction or as allies to the current factions, they'd also need to redo the currently existing maps, capture mechanics, scenarios, city sieges, and probably a dozen other issues I'm not even aware of to allow for a fair 3 sided fight.

 

The new Mourkain Temple they released recently for wrath of heroes is an example of how much work it takes to convert from 2 faction fights to 3. Just for one scenario, they added a new spawn point, shifted the old two, redid the layout of cover, opened up the temple itself,  added flags to control and a stationary artifact. Then there were the other startup coding and design changes to adjust from 2 factions to 3.

 

And Vigil would have to do that for every race they wanted to add. Starting with just Imperium, Orks and Chaos, they'd have to do all that for Eldar, Tau, Dark Eldar, Necrons and Nids. That's the price of a game with no allies. It's simply not in the cards.

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/15/11 3:35:34 PM#45
Originally posted by StMichael

Most of the work is in map creation. Granted, there's a fair bit of work to be done in figuring out mechanics and debugging code and such, but those are startup costs, once you have them you can move them around and reuse them easily. The amount of work required to increase the total number of factions however has huge logistical issues involved though. I'll use warhammer online as an example because it's easy to visualize. To add a 3rd faction to WAR, in addition to the cost of making 3 additional races (art, animation, sound etc) which would be the same regardless of whether they added them as a new faction or as allies to the current factions, they'd also need to redo the currently existing maps, capture mechanics, scenarios, city sieges, and probably a dozen other issues I'm not even aware of to allow for a fair 3 sided fight.

 

The new Mourkain Temple they released recently for wrath of heroes is an example of how much work it takes to convert from 2 faction fights to 3. Just for one scenario, they added a new spawn point, shifted the old two, redid the layout of cover, opened up the temple itself,  added flags to control and a stationary artifact. Then there were the other startup coding and design changes to adjust from 2 factions to 3.

 

And Vigil would have to do that for every race they wanted to add. Starting with just Imperium, Orks and Chaos, they'd have to do all that for Eldar, Tau, Dark Eldar, Necrons and Nids. That's the price of a game with no allies. It's simply not in the cards.

Everything listed in your Mountain Temple example is fairly easy to accomplish, and especially so if the maps were already planned that way. I gave the "3 months" time because that is about the amount of time it would take to accomplish the addition of another faction. Three months is quite long to do any singular thing, but isn't too long if they quickly make that lost time (money) back in subscriber count. It is quite the decision to make, but it is one that I believe will pay off in the end.

Two factions is incredibly limiting, preventing possible upgrades to the system due to the gamve having been built from the ground up using only two factions. A possible future is the failure of the game, followed by a quick revamp of all the areas the players whined about. By having two factions from the start, they will never be able to add a third or split any apart without creating enormous balance issues and a ton of bugs that need to be worked out in their hurry to appease the fans.

What they could also do is to have only two factions, but allow races within a given faction to attack each other whenever they aren't grouped, in a battleground, or guilded. This would allow them to keep their battlegrounds, and would only require them to redo a few things to allow for battles with more than two factions. Because they are all supposedly working together for the greater good (no, not that one) in order (pun) to prevent the destruction (pun) of the sentinel devices, it would make complete sense that they group up and work together for certain things. It would definitely step on the fluff in certain areas like fighting side by side, healing each other, etc, but for the most part I feel this would be an acceptable compromise for the fans. And hell, as far as I know, the idea is completely unique and would fix all the problems of a 3+ faction system while adding dynamics and options that a 3+ faction system lacks. Thoughts?

MMOs aren't just "release and then wing it" projects. They are planned anywhere from two to ten years into the future to make sure they have a roadmap they won't have to think of on their own, and so they can perfect the story/content before they get to that point. To think that they'd have to change more than a few things per area when all along they have planned the addition of a new faction/race is to assume they never planned to add the new faction/race, which is hardly reasonable.

 

 

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/15/11 3:48:51 PM#46

How would adding a 3rd faction to a 2 faction game be any different from adding a 4th faction to a 3 faction game? Besides of course the idea of finding credible allies to populate said 3rd faction.

 

2 faction fights are by their nature much more open ended than 3. Take just about every competetive game or sport out there and break it down to its basic mechanics, and you have that many options for 2 factions to fight. "Us vs Them" was what allowed Mythic to come up with all the different scenarios in the various rulesets they have. Think of all the modes of gameplay that wouldn't be possible across any number of games with 3 sides. You'd be limited only to those that worked for 3 sides. I'd be willing to bet that Planetside won't have scenarios/battlegrounds/whatever, and even if they do, it will be only 1 or 2 rulesets across different maps.

  krage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 416

9/15/11 4:02:02 PM#47

I read most of this thread and both sides are right about this argument to certain extents, here is a link for an Allies Matrix from the Apocalypse Rule Book from the Games Workshop website. I read the arguments and it promted me to dig through my personal repository of 40k books lining my bookshelves and remembered this chart. Fortunately it was found online if not you would be left with a really crappy photo I took of the page in the book lol.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180099_Apocalypse_Allies_Chart.pdf

My personal opinion on this is, yes this two sided conflict is fair within lore but feels like they took the path of least resistance. I would have been much more amazed with something innovative such as using this chart within game and allowing small elements (Warbands, chapters, or basically smaller military units) be they player made or NPC to form temporary alliances with allowable races. Even a passive cease fire in battleground environments would suffice, example 2v2 match Eldar and Imperium Vs Orks and Chaos, when the enemy is eliminated you must then crush your former ally who is an opposite race.

A cease fire system would have truly made the 40k universe have that feeling of there is only war, since at any time alliances are no longer worthwhile to any participants you now have another enemy to contend with from cease fires or alliances being broken.

Now the system of order vs destruction makes sense in the lore but it really is pigeonholing this IP and the players, I think my head will spin seeing multi race capitals like Dalaran from world of warcraft in 40k. I can just see such quotes

"To be Unclean That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Impure That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Abhorred That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Reviled That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Hunted That is the Mark of the Xenos
To be Purged That is the fate of the Xenos
To be Cleansed For that is the fate of all Xenos"

- Catechism of the Xenos, extract from the Third Book of Indoctrinations

being a great party starter for SpaceMarine players to say at the Craftworld taverns while female eldar players (played by men) are stripped bare dancing on communication hubs.

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/15/11 4:09:49 PM#48
Originally posted by StMichael

2 faction fights are by their nature much more open ended than 3. Take just about every competetive game or sport out there and break it down to its basic mechanics, and you have that many options for 2 factions to fight. "Us vs Them" was what allowed Mythic to come up with all the different scenarios in the various rulesets they have. Think of all the modes of gameplay that wouldn't be possible across any number of games with 3 sides. You'd be limited only to those that worked for 3 sides. I'd be willing to bet that Planetside won't have scenarios/battlegrounds/whatever, and even if they do, it will be only 1 or 2 rulesets across different maps.

Or just make it a two faction game mode and only allow two in at a time. Wouldn't that mean you'd be allowed to make absolutely every game mode available to a two faction game, plus every game mode available to a three or more faction game?

There is absolutely no possible way that having only two factions would be less limiting than having more, period.

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/15/11 4:26:47 PM#49

(Edit: to Krage) Who's to say they don't have something like that? The only thing they've confirmed on that front is that there are 2 major factions. Not who is in them, not what their level of hostility will be toward each other, not if there's some controlled amount of backstabbing going on, we just don't know. So instead of pulling a Zoidberg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_WI0VI7aIw), take what we have as a guideline for what is possible instead of a declaration of what we're going to get.

  krage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/22/11
Posts: 416

9/15/11 4:42:58 PM#50
Originally posted by StMichael

(Edit: to Krage) Who's to say they don't have something like that? The only thing they've confirmed on that front is that there are 2 major factions. Not who is in them, not what their level of hostility will be toward each other, not if there's some controlled amount of backstabbing going on, we just don't know. So instead of pulling a Zoidberg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_WI0VI7aIw), take what we have as a guideline for what is possible instead of a declaration of what we're going to get.

True this may be in the works we dont know anything other than 2 faction warfare, however it is most likely going to be the plain jane system of order vs destruction. If the post came out like I am offended by their decision and having a knee jerk reaction of  rage it was not intended lol. I agree there is plenty of room to wiggle since we know nothing other than order vs destruction. Regardless of their decision I will likely give the game a try...well that is assuming they dont try something completely out of the IP like Chaos and the Imperium reconcil and the universe has a golden age of peace! lol 

 Also that video is hilarious,

"WHOOP, WHOOP, WHOOP!"  *Crab crawls away* lol

But yeah guess the only thing we do know is 2 faction, not three and that doesnt mean we arent necessarily chums with xenos. Gonna have to wait this bad boy out unless we have some good ol fashion fun with speculation based on past and current trends. Not like I am gonna be human, eldar or chaos anyways, Orks da bestest and with that decision I can pretty much fight anyone for any reason lol.

  cheshyrecat

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 140

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

9/15/11 6:03:43 PM#51
Originally posted by Sideras

You don't make Warhammer without PvP, that's plain retarded. "In the Grim Darkness of the Future, There is Only War." Ofc if you wanna make WoW or better yet, Carebear 40k: Happy Millenium online maybe PvP ain't the way to go. Nvm though I'll be happy playing Planetside 2, TSW and GW2, watching from the top as this PoS fails.  

#1 who said there is no PvP?  Show me the article that said that.  I dare you.

 

#2 regardless of how many factions there are, why do you care?  Is it ideal?  Probably not.  We can all agree that nothing would make us happier than a badass battle with 3 or 4 or more factions beating the snot out of each other.  yes, that would in fact = epic.

    Is it lore breaking?  Absolutely not.  If you can't understand WHY it's not lore breaking then someone isn't reading the previous posts, or much of the 40k fiction/codexes for that matter.  Green skins will work with anyone if there is enough killing.  They've worked with Tau and even be manipulated into working with the eldar.  There have been numerous instances of Eldar allying with space marines. Also, while the dark eldar think of themselves as superior to all others, can you honestly not see them working with/manipulating agents of chaos to achieve their goals?  Seriously?

 

The point is lore/canon allow for alliances.  only necrons or nids seem completely incapable of allying with anyone or thing.  As for this game failing?  Umm...this game isn't coming out for another year if not 2 years.  Lets not completely write it off because we don't agree with every little aesthetic detail. 

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/15/11 7:19:11 PM#52
Originally posted by cheshyrecat

#1 who said there is no PvP?  Show me the article that said that.  I dare you.

 

#2 regardless of how many factions there are, why do you care?  Is it ideal?  Probably not.  We can all agree that nothing would make us happier than a badass battle with 3 or 4 or more factions beating the snot out of each other.  yes, that would in fact = epic.

    Is it lore breaking?  Absolutely not.  If you can't understand WHY it's not lore breaking then someone isn't reading the previous posts, or much of the 40k fiction/codexes for that matter.  Green skins will work with anyone if there is enough killing.  They've worked with Tau and even be manipulated into working with the eldar.  There have been numerous instances of Eldar allying with space marines. Also, while the dark eldar think of themselves as superior to all others, can you honestly not see them working with/manipulating agents of chaos to achieve their goals?  Seriously?

 

The point is lore/canon allow for alliances.  only necrons or nids seem completely incapable of allying with anyone or thing.  As for this game failing?  Umm...this game isn't coming out for another year if not 2 years.  Lets not completely write it off because we don't agree with every little aesthetic detail. 

 

I responded to this type of mindset on page three I believe. Having certain races work together for a common goal happens all the time, but does an IoM medic heal an Eldar Warp Spider? Never. He probably wouldn't even know their physiology, nor should he care. Do Eldar take joyrides in Baneblades? Never. Do random Orks have conversations with the Chaos leaders? Never.

They definitely have temporary alliances occasionally, but they definitely aren't fighting side by side, using the same equipment, taking missions from other races, or doing anything that they would be required to do if a two faction system were to mean anything at all. The two faction system would work, but to say it isn't lorebreaking is to be very shortsighted.

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  Pilnkplonk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 1566

9/21/11 9:24:10 AM#53
Originally posted by Blasphim

2 factions...lets see here....where have I seen 2 factions fighting before....rome v entire world, axis v allies, england v colonies, north v south.  It's always 2 factions in a war.  Even when you introduce a third party, they inevitibly team up with one side or the other to wipe out one of the three, thus just making it 2 v2 again, and then...back to two facing off again.

 

That's completely irrelevant.

A war is an EVENT. A mmorpg is a continual SETTING. This is what differentiates mmorpgs from one-off playthrough games.

Look at it this way. You have numerous countries and nations in the world history and they keep forming alliances and fighting wars which are largely two-sided at the MOMENT OF EVENT. However, in the past 200 years pretty much every nation that's been in multiple wars allied with its former enemies at a later date.

If you want to make a persistent, continuous and dynamic world you can't design it on the principles of a one off event thing... Unless you live in Orwell's 1984 and have Oceania and Eurasia slugging it out indefinitely. And even there it's a phony, consensual war where neither side wants to actually win. 

Imo if you want to create a dynamic, persistent conflict-driven setting you must have an absolute minimum of 3 independent factions. A game with 2 factions is inherently unstable and therefore better suited for one-off events, that is when you want someone to eventually win. And in a mmorpg you don't want any faction to actually do win-win the whole MMORPG, now do you?

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/21/11 12:54:22 PM#54
Originally posted by Pilnkplonk

Imo if you want to create a dynamic, persistent conflict-driven setting you must have an absolute minimum of 3 independent factions. A game with 2 factions is inherently unstable and therefore better suited for one-off events, that is when you want someone to eventually win. And in a mmorpg you don't want any faction to actually do win-win the whole MMORPG, now do you?

But this IS a one time event setting. The MMO is set in the conflict over the Sargos Sector, not the entire 40k galaxy. You're expecting an all-inclusive conflict that delivers all of warhammer 40k in a box, but nothing can do that. It's not just space marines, orks, guardsmen, chaos, eldar, and so on. It's beyond the scope and scale of being fully represented probably within our lifetimes, and certainly within this decade.

 

So instead of trying to achieve the impossible and failing at it, Vigil is giving us one small slice of the galaxy that happens to be split into Order and Destruction.

  grawss

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/11
Posts: 438

9/21/11 2:57:18 PM#55
Originally posted by StMichael

So instead of trying to achieve the impossible and failing at it, Vigil is giving us one small slice of the galaxy that happens to be split into Order and Destruction.

Oh please, give me a break. People need to quit with their "the sky is falling we're all doomed!" posts. It isn't impossible, you have not even the slightest clue that it would lead to failure, and you are yet again conveniently ignoring all the previous arguments in both this thread and others.

I can't help but think you're just a troll. I doubt you're unwilling to see reason, but you seem to willingly ignore it in favor of furthering an agenda almost everyone disagrees with. I couldn't help but read your posts on another website as well, and it appears you've been labeled as nothing but a troll there as well.

Sarcasm is not a crime!

  Spalliero

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/07
Posts: 150

9/21/11 7:46:28 PM#56
Originally posted by StMichael

But this IS a one time event setting. The MMO is set in the conflict over the Sargos Sector, not the entire 40k galaxy. You're expecting an all-inclusive conflict that delivers all of warhammer 40k in a box, but nothing can do that. It's not just space marines, orks, guardsmen, chaos, eldar, and so on. It's beyond the scope and scale of being fully represented probably within our lifetimes, and certainly within this decade.

 

So instead of trying to achieve the impossible and failing at it, Vigil is giving us one small slice of the galaxy that happens to be split into Order and Destruction.

This is a one time event over the span of an undetermined time.

 

Yes they can capture the feel of 40k, you are selling them short if you think they cannot deliver. That's very defeatist and it's already brandishing the game the less and unable to fullfill it's IP.

You are still trying to justify something that is;

1. By and large just not the case, multiple can be. It's already been done, and there are still games to arrive that are doing it.

2. Capture just one perspective on the IP. 40k is not just about a few races, it's about a universe in turmoil and war.

3. Defending Vigil and THQ, which you don't have to do. If they need defending it's not he fans job to do that, it's the PR departments job.

Sic Luceat Lux

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1144

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

9/21/11 7:57:04 PM#57
Originally posted by Ifcwhuffes
Originally posted by Avathos

I know this issue has been beat to death,

 Then why bring it up again?

Because the ONLY reason mmorpgs think it's ok to "lazy out" with their products is because they are hoping that most of their player base is a bunch of smot poking college drop outs.  They don't want you to know that 3 factions are possible.  That would require more work for them.

 

However, that being said, somewhere out there I guarantee there is a guy with the cash and imagination to consider just how fekking valuable Dark Age of Camelot's concepts are to a next gen mmorpg.

  StMichael

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/10
Posts: 188

God said "Vengeance is mine." Don't think to bear his burden lightly.

9/21/11 8:31:53 PM#58
Originally posted by Spalliero
Originally posted by StMichael

But this IS a one time event setting. The MMO is set in the conflict over the Sargos Sector, not the entire 40k galaxy. You're expecting an all-inclusive conflict that delivers all of warhammer 40k in a box, but nothing can do that. It's not just space marines, orks, guardsmen, chaos, eldar, and so on. It's beyond the scope and scale of being fully represented probably within our lifetimes, and certainly within this decade.

 

So instead of trying to achieve the impossible and failing at it, Vigil is giving us one small slice of the galaxy that happens to be split into Order and Destruction.

This is a one time event over the span of an undetermined time.

 

Yes they can capture the feel of 40k, you are selling them short if you think they cannot deliver. That's very defeatist and it's already brandishing the game the less and unable to fullfill it's IP.

You are still trying to justify something that is;

1. By and large just not the case, multiple can be. It's already been done, and there are still games to arrive that are doing it.

2. Capture just one perspective on the IP. 40k is not just about a few races, it's about a universe in turmoil and war.

3. Defending Vigil and THQ, which you don't have to do. If they need defending it's not he fans job to do that, it's the PR departments job.


To accurately represent the IP, you'd have to fight a galactic scale war for ten thousand years. Since any reasonable person would agree that's not possible, what's the next best thing? A single encounter, which coincidentially is both how relic has done 40k since the original Dawn of War and how Vigil plans to do DMO. And until the sargos conflict is over, it's better to let your enemies die fighting each other than try and take them all on at the same time.

 

It's also neither vigil nor THQ that are calling the shots on the two faction decision, it's games workshop directly. They believe Order vs Destruction best represents both WHFB and 40k, which is why they've been using it in all their large-scale encounters since 2nd edition.

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3864

RIP City of Heroes!

9/21/11 8:33:18 PM#59
Originally posted by Avathos

I know this issue has been beat to death, but in my opinion Vigil is missing a key element if they follow the WoW 2 faction PvP route. The two games I mentioned on my post realized that 3 factions are necessary to maintain balance.

 

I hope they reconsider

Discuss

They won't.

Doesn't matter what you want.  Pick a game that gives you what you want.

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1144

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

9/21/11 9:29:55 PM#60
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by Avathos

I know this issue has been beat to death, but in my opinion Vigil is missing a key element if they follow the WoW 2 faction PvP route. The two games I mentioned on my post realized that 3 factions are necessary to maintain balance.

 

I hope they reconsider

Discuss

They won't.

Doesn't matter what you want.  Pick a game that gives you what you want.

And yeah - Wayne is correct.  Companies will only do as much as they NEED to to get something produced.  It's about the fastest to the digital download and return on investment possible that matters.  This is why the genre is 2 faction or guild vs guild - whether it be GW2 or SW:ToR - it's all most developers want to deal with. 

 

And do you blame them?  Most players don't know the difference - and do NOT have a clue as to why 3 factions, let alone advanced pvp concepts even matter.  As long as folks are happy to instant BG into Arathi Basin type games, it just...won't...change.  

 

And that, my friends, is why I don't feed the developers any more of my money.  I'm fed up with lackluster imaginations on the computer screen.  If I want epic - I just read a book...George R.R. Martin's a Song of Ice and Fire = awesome read.  Real epic realm vs realm type stuff - and civil war "clan" wars to boot. 

 

 

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