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Mortal Online

Mortal Online 

General Discussion  » Why Mortal Online should be considered unplayable.

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35 posts found
  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  8/31/11 1:29:47 PM#1

 

Hey guys,

Some of you know my posts from the Mortal forums (cuz I see them copied over here).  The last patch came and went and I feel like the SV leadership asks for feedback on the one hand, then completely ignores it on the other.  It has been going like this since the beginning.

The game concept has always been great, but the execution has always been terrible.  Currently the game is in a state that I consider unplayable.  I'd rather people interested in the game not try it at all, then try it in its current state and be utterly disappointed.

Recently SV has disabled the bug tracker so bugs can no longer be discussed properly in their forums.  I've decided to take that discussion here so at least potential customers can see what they are really getting into.

The list of game breaking bugs is actually not that long, but SV has demonstrated an inability to fix these bugs for a very long time.  This tells me they don't have the talent to fix them.  SV will make the excuse that they don't have enough resources, but the fact is they just don't know how to properly fix the bugs in question (the problems are buried so deep in the code - both SV and EPIC games cannot find them in some cases).

So, for the new or potential customers, here is what you are getting into:

1.  There is a major memory leak in the code.  Players have suspected this is related to exposure to dynamic sound in game.  I reported this bug over 1 year ago in beta, and SV denied it even existed.  It has been confirmed by large numbers of players since then.  This leak manifests as a massive drop in framerate.  When this happens during large or long pvp encounters, you can imagine how this is completely game breaking, as everyone and everything around you turns into a slideshow.

2.  The FAILED phenomenon.  This happens in large scale battles with more than 30 people involved.  Players will fail to load, and will be invisible on your screen.  They can attack you if they see you, however, and you will be killed.  On your side you will see your health bar drop, but no messages of who or what hit you.  The problem is obviously game breaking for any kind of large scale pvp.  They have known about the problem for over 7 months, and have not yet been able to fix it.  Unreal engine was never meant for more than 32 players, and you can see why with this bug.  EDIT:  Unreal performs fine with 64 players, so it must be Starvault or the Epic code.

3.  FIXED - Invisible weapons bug.  Every time you switch weapons there is a chance that the weapon will be invisible when you unsheathe it.  This happens very often now.  I reported the bug over 9 months ago, but they have been unable to find the problem.  It is much more difficult to hit someone in a first person game, when you can't see your weapon - a game breaker.

4.  Node line freeze.  When you cross a node line in Mortal, you feeze up in the spot where you crossed the boundry.  This means players are free to hit you while you are standing in place for a few seconds.  Many is the time I've ended up dead because I was frozen on someone elses screen, while on mine I was riding away.  A game breaking feature.  SV has known about this since the beginning, but obviously there is nothing they can do.

5.  Loot freeze.  When you loot someone you will freeze up such that no attack logs will show up.  You can be hit over and over, but you won't know it.  When you stop looting your logs will be spammed with messages and you will instantly die.  Another game breaking feature.  This was first reported many months ago. 

6.  Hit box issues.  No creature in game has a hit box that is representatve of the size of the creature.  I can shoot a horse in the head with an arrow, for example, and the arrow will pass right through.  Same thing with the horses hind quarters.  SV has made many excuses about unreal hitboxes being difficult to work with.  Whether or not that is the case, it is game breaking for me when I hit a creaure on my screen, but the hit does not register.  The issue has been around since the beginning.  

7.  Ghost scouting.  In Mortal, there is no such thing as a living scout.  Ghosts travel the world to scout areas without any risk of losing anything.  Despite massive customer feedback against this mechanic, the devs have done nothing to fix the issue that has been around since release.  This mechanic is a favorite of griefers who can ghost scout a particular resource without fear, wait for a miner/woodcutter/crafter to show up, then relog a pvp char to gank them.  The griefer risks very little because he always knows the odds, and killing a miner or crafter is trivial as most cannot fight back.  For me, any kind of no risk griefing/scouting is game breaking.

8.  One of the worst AI's in the history of 21st century games.  I think some 8bit nintendo AI's were more complex than the one in Mortal - hell some commodore 64 AI's were definitely more complex.  This is game breaking because it is simply not fun whatsoever to participate in PVE.  There is no real danger in farming mobs, because simply by jumping a few times you can reset the mob AI to its original position.  This spills over into creature control, where players simply jump up and down to send an enemy players pet back to its original starting point.  Dungeons are impossible in Mortal, because the AI causes mobs to warp through the different levels involved (no z-axis stability).  Mobs will warp right through a player, stand on a players head, etc.  The issues have been in game since the beginning, although there were patches where the AI behaved better than it does now.  SV claims it will take months to upgrade to the new version of the Unreal AI, which in theory will fix these issues.    

9.  Restart after reboot issue.  There is an issue where if a server reboot happens, and you do not restart your client, strange behavior will occur.  For the person that did not restart their client, other players will warp in and out of their location on screen.  For someone who did restart their client, it can appear as if the person who did not do a restart is hitting them from very far away (this bug resulted in many accusations of exploits, but it is not an exploit).  Any warping, or incorrect position reporting is game breaking for me.  This is a relatively recent bug that only popped up a few months ago AFAIK. 

This is by no means the complete list of bugs in game.  There are major issues with melee combat balancing (particularly axes, maces, polearms), magic balancing (corrupt spell needs major modification), lack of meaningful territory control mechanics, lack of reasonable siege mechanics, thievery issues (it has no risk and no meaningful reward), player housing issues, economy issues, and many, many exploits I will not mention.

However, if Mortal can fix every one of the 9 issues I mention above, I will eat my words and say that the game has finally moved into a 1.0 release state, and officially come out of beta.  At that point I will encourage new players to try it out.  Currently though, I consider the game unplayable.

  pockets666

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/11
Posts: 215

Truth gets reported!

8/31/11 1:57:59 PM#2

 

Agree with you %100.   I do not know why they got rid of the bug tracker.  That was a stupid business decision.  Why Should Shinzon/Black Opal be in charge of bug reports.  How is he going to handle all the bug pms??  I know they were not really doing anything in the bug tracker anyways, but atleast it was better than just pming bugs to Opal. 

I really do not think these guys were ready to make an MMORPG.  They should of made an Iphone app or some minecraft game or something.  You do not build a soap box car and then decide to make automobiles for a living.  This just shows people you should not start a business if you do not have the experience.  The decisions they have made from business to content to add to the game have been ass backwards.  Modding the UE with buddys does not give you the experience to run a global business or code an mmorpg.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5405334463_871abcda69_z.jpg

  deathshroud

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1388

8/31/11 3:02:20 PM#3

these are the major bugs currently affecting MO, (many have been around since release). I honestly agree here that they are a big issue and need priority, However that really goes without saying, sicne the general community are largely aware of each of these bugs already, its a case of sitting and wiating for the devs to fix them.

I also agree with pockets  that SV bit off more than they could chew with MO, not only is it an mmorpg but its doing so many firsts for the genre they really just ignored all the tried and tested mmo features and attempted to make something different in their own vision. A shame their coding prowess does not match their ambition. For all MO's faults though i still enjoy the game when i loginl. Theres never really a point when i am furious with bugs or at the game itself whilst playing. My main issues with the game are a lack of other players and new content will never come fast enough in an mmo for me.

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  8/31/11 3:25:47 PM#4
Originally posted by deathshroud

I honestly agree here that they are a big issue and need priority, However that really goes without saying, sicne the general community are largely aware of each of these bugs already, its a case of sitting and wiating for the devs to fix them.

Theres never really a point when i am furious with bugs or at the game itself whilst playing. My main issues with the game are a lack of other players and new content will never come fast enough in an mmo for me.

 

I don't think it goes without saying.  The post is directed toward new players or players who have not yet tried it out.  New players can now no longer see a bug tracker to even realize what happened when they experience one of these bugs.

I think you are in a vast minority when you say you have never been furious at one of these bugs.  I have been pretty mad every time I died due to a bug.  Many people have left the game altogether because of it.

More content without fixing the issues means the game is still unplayable for me and many others.

 

  Toferio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/26/09
Posts: 1455

8/31/11 3:36:17 PM#5
Originally posted by deathshroud

I also agree with pockets  that SV bit off more than they could chew with MO, not only is it an mmorpg but its doing so many firsts for the genre they really just ignored all the tried and tested mmo features and attempted to make something different in their own vision.

I don't think their main issue is trying something new, but ignoring the basic principles of design when doing so. Anyone could have told them that light pillars for priests should have been in at start. Anyone could forsee that thievery would be a hell in the state it was first released. There are just so many trial and errors they could have skipped if they had an experinced designer and not a UO fan with a vision and zero design insight, or at least took time to evaluate features.

  steelfrenzy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/24/08
Posts: 151

9/01/11 5:41:10 AM#6

I played around in beta for a few months. Played shortly after release, and played the trial a while back. Not a whole lot has changed. They introduce new (usually broken) content, and ignore the already broken content in the game. With the time it will take to fix everything that's already wrong with the game, most of the player base will likely have tapered off. Then there's the issue of putting in new content. Honestly, they have no credibility. I don't trust what they already have released. I don't trust their blatant lies, and broken promises. Unless they get some viable financial backing, and some devs who are well worth their weight in salt, this game is doomed to failure. It reeks of inexperience, and that alone is game breaking, especially when dealing with something so new.

I, like many others, believe this game had real promise. I mean REAL promise. Sadly, now I believe that it's likely hindered the progression of the mmo industry, if anything. All Mortal Online has done is show investors and developers alike that it's better to stick with simple WoW clones than do anything different. I know, WoW is a clone in itself blah blah blah. I've likely played mmos longer than you so don't judge me!

Honestly I believe that the issues with the game are so deeply rooted into the engine/code that it would require massive revamps to fix. Essentially making a new game entirely. I don't really bother with it anymore, and I don't know what their playerbase looks like now, but it can't be pretty. I check in every now and again, which is actually why I'm here now, but I have no real expectations. I am just here to further warn people that this is what you will get with Mortal Online. It does have an appeal, and it is different, but is it worth it? The idea is much greater than the game could ever be, and therein lies the problem. By all means, try the trial. Watch the games progress. Hope for the best, but keep your expectations realistic and don't say no one told you so.

  PancakeEffct

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/11
Posts: 44

9/01/11 10:25:20 PM#7
Originally posted by steelfrenzy

 The idea is much greater than the game could ever be, and therein lies the problem. 

QFT

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1116

9/01/11 10:42:17 PM#8
Originally posted by psykobilly

 

  SV claims it will take months to upgrade to the new version of the Unreal AI, which in theory will fix these issues.    

Wait! Didnt SV use this exact same excuse about the AI 2 months after release?

I quit before it was released

So Im guessing that EPIC Patch to fix the AI didnt or is this the same patch and they are still talking about it?

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  9/02/11 12:51:12 AM#9
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by psykobilly

 

  SV claims it will take months to upgrade to the new version of the Unreal AI, which in theory will fix these issues.    

Wait! Didnt SV use this exact same excuse about the AI 2 months after release?

I quit before it was released

So Im guessing that EPIC Patch to fix the AI didnt or is this the same patch and they are still talking about it?

 

Here's the kicker:

Mortal _did_ promise an AI fix with the EPIC patch.  About a month after the EPIC patch, some bug fixes were added and AI DID WORK!  By work I mean the issues with mob resets, and z-axis stability were working properly.  You could run a dungeon and the orcs would be on the correct level.  Mobs would stay aggroed on you until reaching a fairly large chain range.  Pets worked.  PVE mobs were more aggressive. 

Later they broke the AI again introducing the bugs I mentioned.

The devs did mention a new release for Unreal AI, but that it would take significant deleopment work to integrate it.  The real complaint is that they broke what they had working for a short few patches, and instead of rolling back the code to a working patch level, they are just putting it off until they can do a complete overhaul.

That would not be my call if I had my say.  They should have had a professional code revision control system in place, and been able to see the differences in code between the working patches and the current broken patch.

  User Deleted
9/02/11 12:54:35 AM#10

i totally agree that this game should be shut down or taken over by a more devoted company that can fix its outragious amounts of flaws n bugs...this game has such potential its not even funny.

  deathshroud

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1388

9/02/11 12:58:32 AM#11
Originally posted by psykobilly
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Originally posted by psykobilly

 

  SV claims it will take months to upgrade to the new version of the Unreal AI, which in theory will fix these issues.    

Wait! Didnt SV use this exact same excuse about the AI 2 months after release?

I quit before it was released

So Im guessing that EPIC Patch to fix the AI didnt or is this the same patch and they are still talking about it?

 

Here's the kicker:

Mortal _did_ promise an AI fix with the EPIC patch.  About a month after the EPIC patch, some bug fixes were added and AI DID WORK!  By work I mean the issues with mob resets, and z-axis stability were working properly.  You could run a dungeon and the orcs would be on the correct level.  Mobs would stay aggroed on you until reaching a fairly large chain range.  Pets worked.  PVE mobs were more aggressive. 

Later they broke the AI again introducing the bugs I mentioned.

The devs did mention a new release for Unreal AI, but that it would take significant deleopment work to integrate it.  The real complaint is that they broke what they had working for a short few patches, and instead of rolling back the code to a working patch level, they are just putting it off until they can do a complete overhaul.

That would not be my call if I had my say.  They should have had a professional code revision control system in place, and been able to see the differences in code between the working patches and the current broken patch.

 i presonally beleive that the epic patch did bring the fix that was needed, however up until this ponit they beleived capable of coding their own ai. Turned out it really wasnt realistic for their level of coding and lack of man power. The ai pack from epic will likely make the ai coding far easier but them buying it and integrating it is what we are waiting for.

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1116

9/02/11 1:06:35 AM#12
 The real complaint is that they broke what they had working for a short few patches, and instead of rolling back the code to a working patch level, they are just putting it off until they can do a complete overhaul.

WAIT!

But they did that too.

I remember that just after release (or was it still Beta) they had things working (and the world looked better too) and then they broke it with some patches and refused to roll it back saying it would be better to wait to for EPIC Patch.

So now they are doing the exact same thing again?

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
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Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  9/02/11 10:31:17 AM#13
Originally posted by PyrateLV
 

WAIT!

But they did that too.

I remember that just after release (or was it still Beta) they had things working (and the world looked better too) and then they broke it with some patches and refused to roll it back saying it would be better to wait to for EPIC Patch.

So now they are doing the exact same thing again?

 

You're correct.

They did have the AI working shortly after release, for a time, but the main problem was you could use a bow outside of the creaures aggressive range and it wouldn't move.  This problem was fixed after epic so no matter how far away you shoot a mob it would come after you.  That problem is still fixed now, but with the addition of some new issues that I mentioned.

So, the AI was really only working properly for a couple of patches after EPIC (i.e. mobs had stable z-axis, jumping did not reset mob position, ranged attacks always aggro'd mobs).

  alakram

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/02/06
Posts: 2222

9/02/11 10:48:19 AM#14
Originally posted by psykobilly

 

Hey guys,

Some of you know my posts from the Mortal forums (cuz I see them copied over here).  The last patch came and went and I feel like the SV leadership asks for feedback on the one hand, then completely ignores it on the other.  It has been going like this since the beginning.

The game concept has always been great, but the execution has always been terrible.  Currently the game is in a state that I consider unplayable.  I'd rather people interested in the game not try it at all, then try it in its current state and be utterly disappointed.

Recently SV has disabled the bug tracker so bugs can no longer be discussed properly in their forums.  I've decided to take that discussion here so at least potential customers can see what they are really getting into.

The list of game breaking bugs is actually not that long, but SV has demonstrated an inability to fix these bugs for a very long time.  This tells me they don't have the talent to fix them.  SV will make the excuse that they don't have enough resources, but the fact is they just don't know how to properly fix the bugs in question (the problems are buried so deep in the code - both SV and EPIC games cannot find them in some cases).

So, for the new or potential customers, here is what you are getting into:

1.  There is a major memory leak in the code.  Players have suspected this is related to exposure to dynamic sound in game.  I reported this bug over 1 year ago in beta, and SV denied it even existed.  It has been confirmed by large numbers of players since then.  This leak manifests as a massive drop in framerate.  When this happens during large or long pvp encounters, you can imagine how this is completely game breaking, as everyone and everything around you turns into a slideshow.

2.  The FAILED phenomenon.  This happens in large scale battles with more than 30 people involved.  Players will fail to load, and will be invisible on your screen.  They can attack you if they see you, however, and you will be killed.  On your side you will see your health bar drop, but no messages of who or what hit you.  The problem is obviously game breaking for any kind of large scale pvp.  They have known about the problem for over 7 months, and have not yet been able to fix it.  Unreal engine was never meant for more than 32 players, and you can see why with this bug.

3.  Invisible weapons bug.  Every time you switch weapons there is a chance that the weapon will be invisible when you unsheathe it.  This happens very often now.  I reported the bug over 9 months ago, but they have been unable to find the problem.  It is much more difficult to hit someone in a first person game, when you can't see your weapon - a game breaker.

4.  Node line freeze.  When you cross a node line in Mortal, you feeze up in the spot where you crossed the boundry.  This means players are free to hit you while you are standing in place for a few seconds.  Many is the time I've ended up dead because I was frozen on someone elses screen, while on mine I was riding away.  A game breaking feature.  SV has known about this since the beginning, but obviously there is nothing they can do.

5.  Loot freeze.  When you loot someone you will freeze up such that no attack logs will show up.  You can be hit over and over, but you won't know it.  When you stop looting your logs will be spammed with messages and you will instantly die.  Another game breaking feature.  This was first reported many months ago. 

6.  Hit box issues.  No creature in game has a hit box that is representatve of the size of the creature.  I can shoot a horse in the head with an arrow, for example, and the arrow will pass right through.  Same thing with the horses hind quarters.  SV has made many excuses about unreal hitboxes being difficult to work with.  Whether or not that is the case, it is game breaking for me when I hit a creaure on my screen, but the hit does not register.  The issue has been around since the beginning.  

7.  Ghost scouting.  In Mortal, there is no such thing as a living scout.  Ghosts travel the world to scout areas without any risk of losing anything.  Despite massive customer feedback against this mechanic, the devs have done nothing to fix the issue that has been around since release.  This mechanic is a favorite of griefers who can ghost scout a particular resource without fear, wait for a miner/woodcutter/crafter to show up, then relog a pvp char to gank them.  The griefer risks very little because he always knows the odds, and killing a miner or crafter is trivial as most cannot fight back.  For me, any kind of no risk griefing/scouting is game breaking.

8.  One of the worst AI's in the history of 21st century games.  I think some 8bit nintendo AI's were more complex than the one in Mortal - hell some commodore 64 AI's were definitely more complex.  This is game breaking because it is simply not fun whatsoever to participate in PVE.  There is no real danger in farming mobs, because simply by jumping a few times you can reset the mob AI to its original position.  This spills over into creature control, where players simply jump up and down to send an enemy players pet back to its original starting point.  Dungeons are impossible in Mortal, because the AI causes mobs to warp through the different levels involved (no z-axis stability).  Mobs will warp right through a player, stand on a players head, etc.  The issues have been in game since the beginning, although there were patches where the AI behaved better than it does now.  SV claims it will take months to upgrade to the new version of the Unreal AI, which in theory will fix these issues.    

9.  Restart after reboot issue.  There is an issue where if a server reboot happens, and you do not restart your client, strange behavior will occur.  For the person that did not restart their client, other players will warp in and out of their location on screen.  For someone who did restart their client, it can appear as if the person who did not do a restart is hitting them from very far away (this bug resulted in many accusations of exploits, but it is not an exploit).  Any warping, or incorrect position reporting is game breaking for me.  This is a relatively recent bug that only popped up a few months ago AFAIK. 

This is by no means the complete list of bugs in game.  There are major issues with melee combat balancing (particularly axes, maces, polearms), magic balancing (corrupt spell needs major modification), lack of meaningful territory control mechanics, lack of reasonable siege mechanics, thievery issues (it has no risk and no meaningful reward), player housing issues, economy issues, and many, many exploits I will not mention.

However, if Mortal can fix every one of the 9 issues I mention above, I will eat my words and say that the game has finally moved into a 1.0 release state, and officially come out of beta.  At that point I will encourage new players to try it out.  Currently though, I consider the game unplayable.

In my world that means they have no idea about what they are doing.

-=AlaKraM=-
Don't fight against poverty, fight against greed.
My Lord of the Rings Gallery

  headen

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/10
Posts: 226

9/03/11 11:22:46 AM#15

The original post should be sticky'd here and edited if things get fixed. IF

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  9/03/11 2:38:43 PM#16
Originally posted by headen

The original post should be sticky'd here and edited if things get fixed. IF

Yup I will definitely update as things get fixed... assuming they do.

  pockets666

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/11
Posts: 215

Truth gets reported!

9/03/11 3:28:42 PM#17
Originally posted by psykobilly
Originally posted by headen

The original post should be sticky'd here and edited if things get fixed. IF

Yup I will definitely update as things get fixed... assuming they do.

Or more likely added to.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5056/5405334463_871abcda69_z.jpg

  username509

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/10
Posts: 669

9/03/11 6:49:26 PM#18

Yet, people still play this game and the company has been around for years.  Either someone is exaggerating the extent of the faults of Mortal Online or the players just sub to support starvault.  

"Unplayable" hmmm....  I wonder what the people playing Mortal Online right now would say about that?

Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!

  Biggus99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 964

9/03/11 6:55:13 PM#19
Originally posted by username509

Yet, people still play this game and the company has been around for years.  Either someone is exaggerating the extent of the faults of Mortal Online or the players just sub to support starvault.  

"Unplayable" hmmm....  I wonder what the people playing Mortal Online right now would say about that?

 

Seriously, how many people actually play the game?  And how many people have left because of the bugs?  Only the blind would believe there isn't some serious issues with the game.  

  User Deleted
9/03/11 7:11:54 PM#20
Originally posted by Biggus99
Originally posted by username509

Yet, people still play this game and the company has been around for years.  Either someone is exaggerating the extent of the faults of Mortal Online or the players just sub to support starvault.  

"Unplayable" hmmm....  I wonder what the people playing Mortal Online right now would say about that?

 

Seriously, how many people actually play the game?  And how many people have left because of the bugs?  Only the blind would believe there isn't some serious issues with the game.  

Roughly 85% have left according to the last report.

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