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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » New Subscription Plan: It's $1.00 per death.

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141 posts found
  Ecoces

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 827

8/31/11 2:29:48 PM#61

i imagine the company that did this would be shut down shortly after the first month.

  taulutussi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 38

8/31/11 2:34:29 PM#62

If you could earn real money by running some challenging content, it might be interesting :P

  KingCarebear

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/08/06
Posts: 94

8/31/11 2:35:00 PM#63
Originally posted by precious328

So you want player deaths to mean something, eh?

 

Scratch the monthly fee. Scratch the cash shops. It's time to load that account with 1UPs!

 

Can you imagine the change of behavior?

 

What would you say to the moron who trained a bunch of add-on mobs during the raid?

What would you say to the tank who refuses to hold aggro?

What would you say to the healer who went afk?

What would you say about the "Lost Connection" deaths?

What would you say to player who ganked you from the bushes?

What would you say to the player who opened the exploding chest?

 

IMAGINE

 Hum....very good idea my child, very good idea indeed. I will discuss this idea with my council of merry men and see what the consensus is. Your idea has promise my son, it really does. Well done my boy, well done indeed.

King Carebear

  astoria

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/08
Posts: 1685

8/31/11 2:35:49 PM#64

I remember when this was the standard p2p system, only in my day it was a quarter not a dollar and a quarter bought you usually 3 lives. oh inflation.

"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

8/31/11 2:43:40 PM#65
Originally posted by astoria

I remember when this was the standard p2p system, only in my day it was a quarter not a dollar and a quarter bought you usually 3 lives. oh inflation.

 

Oh but all those arcade memories were worth every quarter. :)

 

By the way....I think this is a bad idea for only one reason.  You take peoples' money you cause a LOT of fighting.  This sort of fighting could leak over into RL.  You hit people in their pocketbook by being the douchecanoe that accidentally pulled the wrong room in the dungeon and SOMEONE is going to go crazy enough to possibly want you dead after the 5th time "it's an accident"....yeah right.  That is going to piss SOMEONE off.

 

You guys forget that a lot of the people you play these games with are fucking crazy.  I mean....for REAL crazy....certifiable crazy.

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

8/31/11 3:02:47 PM#66
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by nyxium

$1 per ressurection sounds fair. Your own lame fault for dying.

 

And what happens when Mom charges back the fees you've built up on her credit card?

A non-trivial problem, believe it or not.  It happened quite often in the GEnie/Compuserve era (hourly rates) when Junior would wrack up hundreds of hours playing games, at six to twelve bucks per hour, and Mom would be presented with a bill in the thousands of dollars.

The companies often did not get paid; there's a reason hourly sub fees disappeared.

This is an excellent argument against this idea.

Put another way.  This idea seeks to punish the person paying for the game when the player dies.  It assumes that the player is the person paying for the game.

But what if the person paying for the game is not the player?  I know I would never pay for a game where my bill could increase astronomically if the player kept dying.

Nobody in their right mind would have a payment system similar to a bar tab anymore because consumers got wise to it a decade ago. They got away with it for quite some time, then the class action lawsuits came over 'junior' screwing up. Someone would be bound to try it, if only to get that inital burst of revenue at launch, before they change it and say it was influenced by popular demand. Dirty, dirty business tactics - but can anyone blame someone trying to make money? I'd ponzi scheme my own neighbors if the outlook was good enough.

Now, the biggest gripe with this so far is that it would totally limit the hostile interactions in a game because of the *extreme* fear of death - BUT - doesn't that seem like something you can play on with the right environment in the first place?

I've been penning a concept lately where I want to allow the open FFAPvP freedom of gunning anyone down, but have enough extreme consequences to limit this kind of interaction to bouts of pure hatred, not boredom. People are going to have it coming, and likely from ending too many lives themselves. A good game that actually exists where I can see this working would be Face of Mankind, to limit the random violence that turns all noobs around and back out the door. The wars can still go on with clones, etc, but murder outside of a war declaration would come with extreme political implications (as the game would already have it) and be dealt a fierce punishment - which ironically - would not be a wardec, because kills wouldnt hurt the target as much. There would have to be some marking system, like there already is for crimes and permadeath, but a faster and more 'imminent' process.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

8/31/11 3:05:41 PM#67
Originally posted by just1opinion

You guys forget that a lot of the people you play these games with are fucking crazy.  I mean....for REAL crazy....certifiable crazy.

It's absolutely true, but one of those scenarios where everyone has to suffer because a handful of people will take certain stimulus online and then reach for a hatchet. To protect the children we need to shut down all online gaming, chat rooms, instant messaging, etc. That label on the MMO box that says "online interaction is not rated" needs to be taken off and replaced with a D rating, for deadly.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/31/11 3:09:08 PM#68

Hmmmm...so if a game is developed with this system, it means that the developers get paid whenever someone dies.

The developers also design the game world and can basically determine how frequently people are going to die on average based on how they design it.

I wonder what this system is going to encourage developers to do...

Paying when you die is essentially gambling, and the developer is the house.

Number one rule of any casino my friends.  The house always wins ;).

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  just1opinion

Smart-Alek

Joined: 8/14/07
Posts: 4933

8/31/11 3:11:55 PM#69
Originally posted by GTwander
Originally posted by just1opinion

You guys forget that a lot of the people you play these games with are fucking crazy.  I mean....for REAL crazy....certifiable crazy.

It's absolutely true, but one of those scenarios where everyone has to suffer because a handful of people will take certain stimulus online and then reach for a hatchet. To protect the children we need to shut down all online gaming, chat rooms, instant messaging, etc. That label on the MMO box that says "online interaction is not rated" needs to be taken off and replaced with a D rating, for deadly.

Well...let's not do that and just say we did.  I like my "deadly" games. ;)

President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6164

8/31/11 3:49:36 PM#70
Originally posted by precious328

So you want player deaths to mean something, eh?

 

Scratch the monthly fee. Scratch the cash shops. It's time to load that account with 1UPs!

 

Can you imagine the change of behavior?

 

What would you say to the moron who trained a bunch of add-on mobs during the raid?

What would you say to the tank who refuses to hold aggro?

What would you say to the healer who went afk?

What would you say about the "Lost Connection" deaths?

What would you say to player who ganked you from the bushes?

What would you say to the player who opened the exploding chest?

 

IMAGINE

that just sounds like a bad community

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10940

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

8/31/11 3:51:18 PM#71


Originally posted by Creslin321
Hmmmm...so if a game is developed with this system, it means that the developers get paid whenever someone dies.
The developers also design the game world and can basically determine how frequently people are going to die on average based on how they design it.
I wonder what this system is going to encourage developers to do...
Paying when you die is essentially gambling, and the developer is the house.
Number one rule of any casino my friends.  The house always wins ;).



The Allods developers or publishers did this and they did not win. It very nearly killed the game.

I think you're right though...even in a game where that type of death mechanic would make sense, giving the developer monetary incentive to kill your character repeatedly probably isn't a good idea.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  sudo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/05
Posts: 699

8/31/11 3:54:04 PM#72

This would bring party play and even roleplaying back in. This is how things used to be in Ultima Online. You'd go out with friends because you were afraid of PKs and not because you actually needed their help.

"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/31/11 4:00:53 PM#73
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Creslin321
Hmmmm...so if a game is developed with this system, it means that the developers get paid whenever someone dies.
The developers also design the game world and can basically determine how frequently people are going to die on average based on how they design it.
I wonder what this system is going to encourage developers to do...
Paying when you die is essentially gambling, and the developer is the house.
Number one rule of any casino my friends.  The house always wins ;).




The Allods developers or publishers did this and they did not win. It very nearly killed the game.

I think you're right though...even in a game where that type of death mechanic would make sense, giving the developer monetary incentive to kill your character repeatedly probably isn't a good idea.

 

 Well I suppose a more correct statement would be:

The house always wins, or the house goes out of business.

lol :)

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  NIII

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 114

8/31/11 4:01:10 PM#74

Very refreshing.
Having only read OP's post, I am assuming the threads general reactions.
 
Yes, this could be exploited, every new idea can be exploited. You can't improve an idea if you don't have something wrong with it.
 
I think a better thing to do would be to reward the player with lives for accomplishing certain things. Not like, each quest grants a life, but say.. you've just survived a situation that you were likely to die in, a really hard task to overcome, and you are rewarded with a life. You can also buy lives with real money. You could have a subscription, that rewards you with benefits, including a steady rate of lives. Maybe lives could be traded (like an orb of life or something) via auction house.


This would be an amazing feature if developers were honest.

All in all, it's really the same, you're paying to play the game. Unless you're God, and can not die.

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

8/31/11 4:11:42 PM#75

Here's another argument against this system:

If you play the game very cautiously and hardly ever die, you will likely keep playing because the game is cheap for you, but you will not be profitable to the company.

On the other hand, if you play the game poorly and die a lot, you are profitable to the company, but will likely quit as the game is frustrating you, costing you too much, and you realize you could get a better deal from a regular sub game.

It essentially comes down to:

You are either not dying and thus paying less than a subscription

OR

You are dying a lot and will quit to pay a subscription game that is cheaper to you

Either way, the company loses.

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  just2duh

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 1292

8/31/11 4:17:10 PM#76

 Would hate to start on any day other than Day 1 if there is any sort of open PK involved lol.

 I'd most definetly just ragequit after paying my first $1, only to get immediately killed again by the same high lvl griefer and need to cough another $1 up just for it to happen again >.< That would get old fast.

 

 Without PK though, it wouldn't make a difference to me at all, since it's pretty hard to die in PvE situations. Which just reminds me, given the sorry state of what "challenge" majority of MMO's offer, any company using such a model would likely go under pretty fast.

 They would really need to offer something completely out of the norm than what's out there now game-wise, but with that risky payment model i'm not so sure any company would get enough backing to actually make something that isn't just another paint-by-numbers MMO, not to mention most people paying and playing seem to hate to try anything new..

  fansede

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/03
Posts: 957

Pain is fear leaving the body..

8/31/11 4:18:40 PM#77
Originally posted by Corehaven

So they charge you a buck for every time you die?  So no one would ever run challenging content because fear of death.  PvP would be non existant and completely unrewarding.  People would rage quit by the hundreds.  Or thousands. 

 

After a year the game would enjoy a wonderfully healthy population of 12 people.  Awesome. 

I am afraid he is right. While the niche MMO veterans welcome the innovation, the causal masses would not.  Now a server dedicated to these rules would be a nice option. It would really make players put their money where their mouth is.

  Zadawn

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 676

8/31/11 4:19:33 PM#78

I have a better idea,1 dollar for every yard you cross.

  fansede

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/03
Posts: 957

Pain is fear leaving the body..

8/31/11 4:22:55 PM#79
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by astoria

I remember when this was the standard p2p system, only in my day it was a quarter not a dollar and a quarter bought you usually 3 lives. oh inflation.

 

Oh but all those arcade memories were worth every quarter. :)

 

By the way....I think this is a bad idea for only one reason.  You take peoples' money you cause a LOT of fighting.  This sort of fighting could leak over into RL.  You hit people in their pocketbook by being the douchecanoe that accidentally pulled the wrong room in the dungeon and SOMEONE is going to go crazy enough to possibly want you dead after the 5th time "it's an accident"....yeah right.  That is going to piss SOMEONE off.

 

You guys forget that a lot of the people you play these games with are fucking crazy.  I mean....for REAL crazy....certifiable crazy.

Nothing a mechanic like a ceiling or limits that can be placed by the player. Suppose a player logs onto a permadeath server. The default game option of 5 lives is set. After the 5th death, the player cannot log into the server anymore until he/she determines how many lives can be spent that session. 

  NuclearSoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/23/11
Posts: 9

8/31/11 4:23:25 PM#80

Heh you think wiping makes people rage now, this would really do it. =P

www.wizardsdistrict.com

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