Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Khalathwyr

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Originally posted by Foomerang
 

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Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
 
:*(

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I'll try to remember that while Im running space missions and outfitting my ship, managing my business, exploring secret areas for rewards, customizing my companions, fighting in mass pvp scenarios on far away planets, and roleplaying in the Star Wars universe. I'll try my hardest to remember that this is just a gear treadmill game and nothing more. :)

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Managing what business? Genuine question.
I ask because with the crafting system they have outlined I don't see how a business is a serious avenue of gameplay. It's easy to see in SWG (and for those who can't stand those three letters, get over it: the rest of us have) as there you had different qualities/stats of resources that went into items. You could actually put together a better product than the next guy.
Here (TOR) from what I have see everyone within a given profession will just make the same old same. The only business PvP I'm seeing is just in what you list the price at.
So, yeah, back to the original question.

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maximizing the efficiency of my crew. knowing which employees are good at which tasks. finding rare materials and one of a kind recipes that will give me an edge. As well as the non ToR exclusive stuff like watching price trends, predicting supply/demand patterns, etc.

My above was not directed at you Foomer. Thanks, seriously, for just answering the question.

Rules of conduct before this thread gets really out of hand:

http://www.mmorpg.com/disclaimers.cfm#conduct

SWTOR doesn't really strike me as a MMO dedicated to crafters and a market system but I could be wrong. The game seems to want you to play a hero more than merchant vendor. Merchant vendors and big market type stuff usually fall under sandbox type MMOs which SWTOR is not.

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Originally posted by Khalathwyr

My above was not directed at you Foomer. Thanks, seriously, for just answering the question.

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Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Khalathwyr

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Originally posted by Foomerang
 

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Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
 
:*(

---

I'll try to remember that while Im running space missions and outfitting my ship, managing my business, exploring secret areas for rewards, customizing my companions, fighting in mass pvp scenarios on far away planets, and roleplaying in the Star Wars universe. I'll try my hardest to remember that this is just a gear treadmill game and nothing more. :)

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Managing what business? Genuine question.
I ask because with the crafting system they have outlined I don't see how a business is a serious avenue of gameplay. It's easy to see in SWG (and for those who can't stand those three letters, get over it: the rest of us have) as there you had different qualities/stats of resources that went into items. You could actually put together a better product than the next guy.
Here (TOR) from what I have see everyone within a given profession will just make the same old same. The only business PvP I'm seeing is just in what you list the price at.
So, yeah, back to the original question.

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maximizing the efficiency of my crew. knowing which employees are good at which tasks. finding rare materials and one of a kind recipes that will give me an edge. As well as the non ToR exclusive stuff like watching price trends, predicting supply/demand patterns, etc.

Actually Foomerang, a question about the rare recipes. Do you know if they are one-shot, or is this something you can produce a significant number of. That way I could see a player being able to offer up a product that no one if anyone else can produce.

While I do like the crew part now (it grew on me) it seems to me about the same as having factories in SWG. So, different, but the same as far as having items produced while offline.

I solo most of the time or do small group stuff as it has been my experience it is just not worth the time or effort to do raids as the raiders I have encountered are one step below felons in behavior and attitude. However I have no issue with raids being in games I just don't want to have to raid to complete my story and I want to be able to get great gear without raiding. I don't need the raid gear just give me something with bonuses more benefiting a soloer or crafter. and it has to look good.

I will just say that i save my ragging on games/companies, that try to sucker in solo players by claiming to be completely solo playable, and or friendly, when they are not.

You know, the ones that say sure buy the game you can solo to the end, but never mention that you get half or less of the exp or gear that groups do.

Ones that say up front that you need to group in pvp or end game to get the best.. well , you have been warned.

Solo people can do alot, but do not expect the game to change. We have to expect this from most games. There is no way to bring in the numbers these guys want with just one type of game. So we have solo, raiding, pvp..pretty much the standard MMO script anymore.

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Originally posted by miceinblack
SWTOR doesn't really strike me as a MMO dedicated to crafters and a market system but I could be wrong. The game seems to want you to play a hero more than merchant vendor. Merchant vendors and big market type stuff usually fall under sandbox type MMOs which SWTOR is not.

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Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Khalathwyr

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Originally posted by Foomerang
 

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Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
 
:*(

---

I'll try to remember that while Im running space missions and outfitting my ship, managing my business, exploring secret areas for rewards, customizing my companions, fighting in mass pvp scenarios on far away planets, and roleplaying in the Star Wars universe. I'll try my hardest to remember that this is just a gear treadmill game and nothing more. :)

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Managing what business? Genuine question.
I ask because with the crafting system they have outlined I don't see how a business is a serious avenue of gameplay. It's easy to see in SWG (and for those who can't stand those three letters, get over it: the rest of us have) as there you had different qualities/stats of resources that went into items. You could actually put together a better product than the next guy.
Here (TOR) from what I have see everyone within a given profession will just make the same old same. The only business PvP I'm seeing is just in what you list the price at.
So, yeah, back to the original question.

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maximizing the efficiency of my crew. knowing which employees are good at which tasks. finding rare materials and one of a kind recipes that will give me an edge. As well as the non ToR exclusive stuff like watching price trends, predicting supply/demand patterns, etc.

Actually Foomerang, a question about the rare recipes. Do you know if they are one-shot, or is this something you can produce a significant number of. That way I could see a player being able to offer up a product that no one if anyone else can produce.

While I do like the crew part now (it grew on me) it seems to me about the same as having factories in SWG. So, different, but the same as far as having items produced while offline.

Sounds like schematic itself is pretty rare, once you have it, it sounds like you have it for good. as per this

http://swtorlevelingguider.com/218/swtor-crafting-guid/

So you can just churn out as many of that product as you want provided you have the mats and the time of course.

Edited to add more info.

Originally posted by whilan

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by Khalathwyr

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Originally posted by Foomerang
 

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Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
 
:*(

---

I'll try to remember that while Im running space missions and outfitting my ship, managing my business, exploring secret areas for rewards, customizing my companions, fighting in mass pvp scenarios on far away planets, and roleplaying in the Star Wars universe. I'll try my hardest to remember that this is just a gear treadmill game and nothing more. :)

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Managing what business? Genuine question.
I ask because with the crafting system they have outlined I don't see how a business is a serious avenue of gameplay. It's easy to see in SWG (and for those who can't stand those three letters, get over it: the rest of us have) as there you had different qualities/stats of resources that went into items. You could actually put together a better product than the next guy.
Here (TOR) from what I have see everyone within a given profession will just make the same old same. The only business PvP I'm seeing is just in what you list the price at.
So, yeah, back to the original question.

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maximizing the efficiency of my crew. knowing which employees are good at which tasks. finding rare materials and one of a kind recipes that will give me an edge. As well as the non ToR exclusive stuff like watching price trends, predicting supply/demand patterns, etc.

Actually Foomerang, a question about the rare recipes. Do you know if they are one-shot, or is this something you can produce a significant number of. That way I could see a player being able to offer up a product that no one if anyone else can produce.

While I do like the crew part now (it grew on me) it seems to me about the same as having factories in SWG. So, different, but the same as far as having items produced while offline.

Sounds like schematic itself is pretty rare, once you have it, it sounds like you have it for good. as per this

http://swtorlevelingguider.com/218/swtor-crafting-guid/

So you can just churn out as many of that product as you want provided you have the mats and the time of course.

Edited to add more info.

Ace! Whilan you rock. Off to read. I'm close to back tracking and pulling the credit card out for this one afterall. Guess time and actual info can change a mind...

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Wow, talk about getting defensive to a simple question. There was no need to take shots at sandboxers or at SWG. A simple stating of what TOR had was sufficient.

Forget I asked. One better, I'll just delete the question since it seems it can't be asnwered without sarcasm, snide remarks. Thanks all the same.

I can understand why you are so annoyed there are many people who find it clever to be sarcastic on here all the time but tbh I would not worry about them as 99% are idiots anyway.

I've been told by a few guys who are in Beta that you can solo or work in pairs as some mobs are too strong for Solo but you can solo just not all areas.

I solo lots in many games but plan on grouping much more here as it seems fun and the clan I have joined are going to help each other in fours and pairs.

Check them out they are called www.taw.net they just upgraded their website too ready for release of a few up and coming games including shooters and MMO's

Tell them Kelly sent you!

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Actually Foomerang, a question about the rare recipes. Do you know if they are one-shot, or is this something you can produce a significant number of. 

LOTRO used to have that, rare dropped recipes and you could only make it once then the recipe disappeared and you had to go and find it again.  Also before Moria you could craft gear that was damn near equivalent to the raid stuff, that was not only time consuming to gather the crystals you needed from rare mobs, but to get the teal colored crit ver was also rather low.  The stats on them were still a little lower than the raid sets, but it was still really good, plus I believe the raid gear looked better.  Then of course Turbine removed those in favor of progression gear...lame!

I wouldn't mind seeing a system like this return again or added to SW:TOR, heck this could be a means for the solo/small group player to get some of the best gear outside raiding.  

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Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Actually Foomerang, a question about the rare recipes. Do you know if they are one-shot, or is this something you can produce a significant number of. That way I could see a player being able to offer up a product that no one if anyone else can produce.
While I do like the crew part now (it grew on me) it seems to me about the same as having factories in SWG. So, different, but the same as far as having items produced while offline.

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I think once you discover a rare recipe, its yours. I think some of the exclusive recipes come from sending your companions out on missions. But you have to know which companions excel at which types of missions in order to improve your chances at getting the really good stuff. I crafted heavily in SWG. It is far and away the best crafting system Ive ever experienced. That being said. I have to give props to Bioware for carving their own path in the crafting realm. It is not as detailed as SWG with all the resource stats and experiment points, but it makes up for it through its diversity and range of activities.

I think if all you care about is soloing, then you have no need for gear that's meant to make you competitive for group play. All you need is best in slot items for soloing, which would be obtainable by soloing. Using WoW as an example, before WoTLK came out and made blues and purples obtainable through solo play, you only needed green gear. You could get the best green gear from questing and crafting. Anything more than green gear made the solo content trivial. People focusing on group and raid content are the ones that need to be worried about getting the rarer types of gear, because without it they won't be competitive.

It's just something to think about. Other than that, it sounds to me that crafters who participate in operations can make the best gear and sell it to those over the auction house anyways, so it shouldn't matter. Also, I personally don't care about solo players, since I'll never group with them anyways. People you never socialize with and never group with generally don't exist to me. They're just another random player I run past while doing quests.

Originally posted by Gormok

Well in an upcoming patch Rift will be offering solo and small group dungeons for one, in which you can acquire some pretty decent gear. Not the best but also not the worst, as far as GW2 goes you can pretty much join in on the events if you are in the area. The game doesn't go from a fun leveling experience to an all out raid or die endgame, GW2 is more persistant. To be honest I was one of the biggest bashers of GW2, but after hearing the ToR announcements GW2 is looking like the better game, even Rift will be better than ToR after 1.5. After the personal story runs out than what? If you want to do endgame story content, guess what? that's in the operations. The whole solo planet thing is just another way of saying repeatable dailies. I was one of the biggest fanbois of ToR and couldn't nothing negative be said about it, without me coming to the defense. But now it looks like the raiders win out again, BW pretty much feed us bullshit back in 2008 when they said they weren't going after the raiding crowd.

 You're just making assumptions on what the solo planet will offer. I don't think it's fair to make assumptions like that, because you've never played it. You should just wait and see. Besides, it's well known that in modern day MMO's (ie since WoW), end game doesn't mean the game doesn't end. The game ends when the content is gone, unless the game has some sort of persistent scheme going to make you want to keep logging in. RvR in DAoC is the only feature I know of that makes the end game point moot. However, if you're a solo player, your game will end when you complete all the solo quests. If you're a group player, it'll end when you complete all the flashpoints. If you're a raider, it'll end when you've completed all of the operations. Either way, the game will end, because it's wishfull thinking to believe Bioware will keep streaming meaningful content at a rate that'll always leave you with something to do.

Originally posted by theratmonkey

Well, if you could solo and get the same gear as people who do raids, then it would seem unfair.

It's not really a new thing to have some of the best gear only accessable via group content. I don't see a way they could do it to where solo players get good gear without it feeling like group and raiders are getting the shaft.

 

There's more to group content than raiding.  Just because you may not be interested in participating raid level logistical suckfests, doesn't mean that you aren't interested in running difficult content with a few buddies.  The only thing that makes raids challenging is getting enough warm bodies pointed in the same direction at the same time.  Otherwise, it's just variations of staying out of the fire like any other content.

Just about the last thing I want from my games these days is to have to listen to the vacuous bitching of raiders and their megalomaniacal raid "leaders".  I'm SO done with that.  With a small group, I can at least ensure that those I'm playing with are people I want to be spending time with.  I suppose if my free time meant nothing to me, I wouldn't care who it was that I wasting it on.  But it does, which pretty much precludes raiding now.

Originally posted by Unlight

With a small group, I can at least ensure that those I'm playing with are people I want to be spending time with.

Psssst, you can do that with raiding guilds too.  Not with PuGs, of course, but the lack of social control is the price you pay for the convenience of PuGing.

Originally posted by Gormok

Well in an upcoming patch Rift will be offering solo and small group dungeons for one, in which you can acquire some pretty decent gear. Not the best but also not the worst, as far as GW2 goes you can pretty much join in on the events if you are in the area. The game doesn't go from a fun leveling experience to an all out raid or die endgame, GW2 is more persistant. To be honest I was one of the biggest bashers of GW2, but after hearing the ToR announcements GW2 is looking like the better game, even Rift will be better than ToR after 1.5. After the personal story runs out than what? If you want to do endgame story content, guess what? that's in the operations. The whole solo planet thing is just another way of saying repeatable dailies. I was one of the biggest fanbois of ToR and couldn't nothing negative be said about it, without me coming to the defense. But now it looks like the raiders win out again, BW pretty much feed us bullshit back in 2008 when they said they weren't going after the raiding crowd.

  WoW So you really think a Solo player should get loot drops thats just as good as the gear raids go after. You even admit rift will soon have solo instances that offer gear thats not as good as raid gear yet you bash SW:ToR for not screwing the groups and raiders.

   Perhaps what your really looking for is not a MMO but Kotor or Kotor 2

  I would dare you to name one MMO where solo players can get gear just as powerfull as what raiders get. You can't of course because all MMO basically understand more effort = shoild get more reward. If every player can just solo boss X for ubersword why would people go to the effort of forming raids to get the ubersword?

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

Wow, talk about getting defensive to a simple question. There was no need to take shots at sandboxers or at SWG. A simple stating of what TOR had was sufficient.

Forget I asked. One better, I'll just delete the question since it seems it can't be asnwered without sarcasm, snide remarks. Thanks all the same.

I don't know if this was in response to my post, but if it was, then I think there's a misunderstanding: what I mean is that the group that experienced crafting in SWG or UO will get smaller over the years, due to MMO gamers finding other interests, life, or because the MMO genre doesn't appeal that much to them anymore compared to other hobbies and interests. To a lot of those people, the crafting in SWG will always be the best and they'll compare any crafting with how it was in those games, to the point that for some the merits of any crafting in other MMO's are discarded beforehand with the thought that it'll 'never be good enough' anyway.  That's understandable. Overall though, there are continuously new MMO gamers that join the scene, who look differently upon gameplay features and thus more able to enjoy the crafting in current MMO's for what it'll offer, not for what crafting could be.

Long elaboration, but in short, sure, crafting in some old MMO's like UO and SWG was great, but crafting in later MMO's can be great and enjoyable in its own right as well, and so far from what it looks like SWTOR's crafting mechanics seem to be a step up from crafting seen in other (themepark) MMO's

Originally posted by theratmonkey

Well, if you could solo and get the same gear as people who do raids, then it would seem unfair.

It's not really a new thing to have some of the best gear only accessable via group content. I don't see a way they could do it to where solo players get good gear without it feeling like group and raiders are getting the shaft.

 

It's not really a new thing that you could solo and get the best gear either.  Lineage did it.  A player could solo hard content and get the best gear.  They could group up for safety and faster acquisition but there was not boundary between gear for groups or solo.  There was just good gear.

This game won't be any different than other MMOs on the market.  It's a raid or die at end game that they are parroting from WoW, EQ/EQ2, LotRO, AoC, etc.  This game will be different because it's heavily voiced and that's about it.  I'm imagining Tortage for a good portion of the game.  Other than that it will parrot traditional MMO gimmicks and traps from a different angle.

I'm not sure there is a dev studio out there right now that has both the balls and the ability to pull off engaging game content for multiple play styles (from solo to raid) while also providing golden paths to top tier gear (notice I don't call it raid gear).

I'm sure this game will be fun and wildly successful and I'll be watching how it progresses.  It's not going to usher in a new paradigm or change the world.  It will be just another MMO option with great voiceovers.