Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

Djeezus Christ, freaking out because GW2 didn't win PvP and innovation rewards, if there's any time to call out fanboys it's now.

Seriously, your damn game won "Best of Show", be happy.

TOR showed and revealed more in regards to PvP period. Haven't followed Wildstar.

I completely agree with your observation and suggestion.

also, wildstar was essentially anounced just over a week ago.  I honestly can't agree with the "innovation" reward being givin to wildstar, if only because there really isn't much real info about it at all.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by drumchannell

Yes, the mists are instanced since there will be multiple copies of the zone(s).

Ex:

Mists #1 (Servers A,B,C)

Mists #2 (Servers D,E,F)

Mists #3 (Servers X,Y,Z)

Server A can not enter into server E's instance of the mists. Server H can not enter into server A's instance of the mists.etc.

also, the mists will only be persistant for about 2-3 weeks, all persistance is reset after each match so the persistant nature of the world is meaningless outside of that 2-3 week battle.

They aren't instanced. They are zones. By the definition of an instance, they are not instanced.

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

The zones inside the mists are instanced becuase there are different copies of the same zones for different server groups.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas and a system  that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Its still too early to tell IMO,  but what we do know is that the mists only last for 2 weeks at a time.  Better than 1 week,  but at the end of the 2 weeks, it resets,  and you face a different enemy,  so its not really persistent.  As for the zones,  they will be large,  but I wonder if they'll be sectioned off from eachother by portals... (they may have already mentioned that).   That being said,  one isn't exclusively better than the other,  they are just different.

by that logic, any game that does server resets when they patch their games or otherwise update something is also not truely persistent.

In practice however, the only real people who would notice all that much when the servers change their opponents is the people playing at that exact moment...which is once ever 2 weeks.

there will be portals separating the different zones btw.

 

I don't think so,  I think it will change quite a bit because you will no longer own half the map,  etc.   You could say that when they restart the servers or bring them down for maintenance items reset,  but, well,  for one I don't think thats going to be a big problem in SWTOR seeing as how they are using the hero engine and they can make updates and changes without bringing the servers down,  and 2,  would that mean, when Anet brings the servers down for maintenance that you lose everything in WvWvW?   I don't think so.

 

The thing is,  it will reset consistently,  at the end of 2 weeks,  and you WILL fight new opponents,  so even if you were really close to taking a castle and want to try again tomorrow,  if its the end of those two weeks, the castle will just reset, and you'll face someone else who might not even care about that castle.   

 

By any other logic, you could just as well say that any instance is persistent for however long it stays open until it resets.  Take a battleground for instance,  it must be persistent too,      until the timer runs out.   But thats a persistent world and not an instance,  right?

 

An Instance is an area created for a specific group of people (or just one person) when that group of people leaves then the instance disappears. This is not the case with the mists. The mists persist, for just two weeks but still.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

That still doesn't mean it's an instance. A reset also does not mean it isn't entirely persistent.

Lol, i got the idea that they MUST mention SWTOR...

SWTOR beats GW2 on pvp?? Really?????

to me there's one winner :GW2 :)

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas and a system  that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

A persistent world (PW) is a virtual world that continues to exist even after a user exits the world and that user-made changes to its state are, to some extent, permanent.  -  Wikipedia

"to some extent", meaning that there is a point where something reverting to its original state has no bearing on whether something is persistent or not.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

That still doesn't mean it's an instance. A reset also does not mean it isn't entirely persistent.

Partial persistency of a zone doesn't make it a completely open, persistent world.   For example,  people wouldn't stand for a complete reset or the PvE world in GW2 would they?   I mean,  after the monsters took those towns,  you want to fend them off instead of having them just reset after 2 weeks right?  

I mean if a dragon comes and takes an area and every time you go there you lose to him time and again,  would you rather him just reset after 2 weeks, or would you like to keep fighting him until you kill him and save the town for real?   

Thats one of the big selling points for PvE isn't it?  The world will go on its course and you can decide if you want to push it back, or let it move forward.   Would it be so enticing if, after 2 weeks everything just went back to normal and started all over again?   Thats whats happening in PvP for GW2.

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

That still doesn't mean it's an instance. A reset also does not mean it isn't entirely persistent.

 

Partial persistency of a zone doesn't make it a completely open, persistent world. 

No one ever said it did. You are just projecting your own translation of the comments into something that is different than what was actually meant.

WvWvW is made of persistent zones. It is not instanced. That's that.

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas and a system  that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

A persistent world (PW) is a virtual world that continues to exist even after a user exits the world and that user-made changes to its state are, permanent for exactly 2 weeks.  -  Wikipedia

 

That goodness we have wikipedia.  "some extent" of being permanent.  2 weeks isn't even remotely permanent, even in districting standards.    It doesn't matter how many people are in the zone at the end of the 2 weeks, its not persistent,  it will disappear.  Do you disagree?

A single instance of a zone is still an instance.

I program OO languages all day. A single instance is still an instance. And if its the only one "allowed", it's a "singleton" ;).

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas and a system  that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

A persistent world (PW) is a virtual world that continues to exist even after a user exits the world and that user-made changes to its state are, permanent for exactly 2 weeks.  -  Wikipedia

 

 

That goodness we have wikipedia.  "some extent" of being permanent.  2 weeks isn't even remotely permanent, even in districting standards.    It doesn't matter how many people are in the zone at the end of the 2 weeks, its not persistent,  it will disappear.  Do you disagree?

Any proof it disappears? I highly doubt you have any.

It sounds more likely that the scores will just be reset and the zones will be connected to different servers. I'm pretty sure they won't disappear.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

That still doesn't mean it's an instance. A reset also does not mean it isn't entirely persistent.

 

Partial persistency of a zone doesn't make it a completely open, persistent world. 

No one ever said it did. You are just projecting your own translation of the comments into something that is different than what was actually meant.

WvWvW is made of persistent zones. It is not instanced. That's that.

Eh, no, I'd rather say that WvWvW is made of semi-persistent two week long time-based instanced zones.  Does that definition not also work?

The problem so many people are have with the Mists isn't so much about instancing, it's about persistance that will only last for 2-3 weeks per battle. Persistance is something that is going to set GW2 and SWTOR apart from each other in the world PvP department.

Did SWTOR beat out GW2 in PVP because it showed its world PVP first?  Or is it because TOR fans blew a shit when an editor dared mention they weren't impressed by the game?  Either way, I think the lesser awards were a little too spread out not to be seen as "convenient".

Honestly, there really was not much new from GW2 pvp wise at the show. There was no W v W v W or such there. GW2 pvp is simply not done yet.

SWToR pvp was there, playable and a lot of fun. I caught a couple of matches. 

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

That still doesn't mean it's an instance. A reset also does not mean it isn't entirely persistent.

 

Partial persistency of a zone doesn't make it a completely open, persistent world. 

No one ever said it did. You are just projecting your own translation of the comments into something that is different than what was actually meant.

WvWvW is made of persistent zones. It is not instanced. That's that.

Eh, no, I'd rather say that WvWvW is made of semi-persistent two week long time-based instanced zones.  Does that definition not also work?

Not really simply because of the use of the word instanced.

Definition for instanced:

Hope this settles it

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by grimm6th

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by maskedweasel

 

Zones can be instanced.  

Just because they can doesn't mean they are.

 

But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not.    At the end of the day,  you have portals between different areas and a system  that reset every 2 weeks.   That isn't entirely persistent, is it?  

A persistent world (PW) is a virtual world that continues to exist even after a user exits the world and that user-made changes to its state are, permanent for exactly 2 weeks.  -  Wikipedia

 

 

That goodness we have wikipedia.  "some extent" of being permanent.  2 weeks isn't even remotely permanent, even in districting standards.    It doesn't matter how many people are in the zone at the end of the 2 weeks, its not persistent,  it will disappear.  Do you disagree?

Any proof it disappears? I highly doubt you have any.

It sounds more likely that the scores will just be reset and the zones will be connected to different servers. I'm pretty sure they won't disappear.

So you think that the scores will be reset, but you'll still own all of the areas you've taken?  You honestly believe that?  They'll just connect you to other servers and all the resources and areas you've taken just hang around, and if the other person had that area too, you just flip a coin?

Originally posted by catlana

Honestly, there really was not much new from GW2 pvp wise at the show. There was no W v W v W or such there. GW2 pvp is simply not done yet.

SWToR pvp was there, playable and a lot of fun. I caught a couple of matches. 

Were those matches battlegrounds or world PvP. Because if it wasn't world PvP then TOR showed about the same amount of PvP as Guild Wars 2.