Originally posted by maji

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children.  Thats ONE reason.

But why would a relationship between two women for example be damaging for a child, while a relationship between a guy and a woman wouldn't?

A child is expected to be like everyone else, or the masses. It offers the most 'conformity' to be the same. So people would want thier kid to fit in, rather than to be different, even if society 'accepts' them.

There are probably other reasons.

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by apocalance

In the LGBT community, isn't the concept that people feel they're born one gender, but internally they're really another? And so if that's the case, in SWTOR, they can actually be that other gender, and so balance is restored. amiright? Not gay here, so I could be mistaken.

Seriously I cant tell you how many times Ive written this in response to this argument.  Or rather.....if you want same sex NPC relationships in Swtor please follow these directions: 

 

Create a Female character

Use character creation to modify this characters looks.  Give broad shoulders, flat chest, male haircut, and as male of a face as possible with no make up. 

Name character Fred.  George.  Tight Pants Henrico.  Bruno.  Whatever.  Any male name you like. 

Then role play as a male. 

 

You may now have your NPC same sex relationships.  Apparently this isnt good enough however, because the game may occasionally refer to you as a "beautiful woman" or something when you're actually trying to play as a gay guy.   Of COURSE its not friggin good enough.  Why the hell would it be?  That solution is far too simple.  The issue has got to be complicated.  People have got to be highly offended because they didnt put homosexuality into a STAR WARS game. {mod edit}

What if they want their character to have facial hair?

See?  Like I said its not good enough.  I dont even know if the character creation allows females to have facial hair but I doubt it.   This work around obviously isnt good enough because we have to make a huge issue out of it {mod edit}

Know what?  Elder Scrolls Oblivion was one of my favorite games ever.  No matter what I did, I couldnt really get my character to have a beard.  Or a real mustache.  Live with it.  Crap. 

I vote for man/hutt love!

I would not expect a game built to be a LGBT game to have heterosexual relationships. Star Wars, for the most part, is not a universe where relationships (romantic ones) take priority. The most we ever got was Han and leia's kiss and of course, an off screen conception for the twins with Padme and Anakin. Even with the extended universe (which i have some knowledge), Star Wars is a predominately heterosexual universe with just the few relationships we have information about.

So again, I reiterate that I do not see the need for relationships in the first place and that same-sex relationships are not common (nor canonical) in the universe. I do not see the expectation that Bioware should have them and that it should be an accepted fact.

If there was a same-sex MMO created and it did not have hetrosexual relationships in it, I can promise you it would not be that big of a deal.

They created their own precedent with the Mass Effect and Dragon Age Series, so Im really wondering why they decided to specifically tell the press that they wont include same sex relationships with companions. I mean, now they created a situation that reeks of discrimination. You either continue to add both or none at all.

As for the 'not wanting to be forced to see this', this depends completely on how one of those relationships evolve in the game mechanics. If it requires you to go for some obviously flirty remarks, then it is unlikely that someone who isnt interested in same sex relationships with their companion, will be experiencing it ingame,

Originally posted by Verterdegete

Originally posted by Unlight

I won't even bother listing any of the huge number of other animal species on the planet who engage in same-sex behaviour with one another, without the benefit of human engineered morality to dissuade them.    

{mod edit}

Does it occur naturally or not?  Your desperate obfuscations fail to refute that point.  Perhaps now would be a good time to redefine the word "natural" to something more in keeping with decent morals?

Gotta love some of the logic of some of this here... They are a minority and their acts are unnatural/ungodly, blah, blah blah...

What this boils down to is that some people just don't feel like homosexuals are human beings, and that their feelings because they are not human beings and a minority can't possibly be hurt by being excluded from a game. 

This isn't a movie where the characters are out of the watchers control, this is supposedly a video game where you're supposed to be able to choose your story. Well now a group of people have essentially been purposley excluded from that story. I don't blame them for feeling hurt and being upset, we live in a day and age where we should be beyond this sort of mononic bigotry. And Bioware has proven itself in the past to have included this particular group, yet suddenly, and especially with a feature that is new to MMO's, they can't be bothered. Yeah there is a reason this raise so many red flags for people. 

Rationalize it all you like, but there is an element of homophobia at work here as well as in all the vitrolic logic I've seen in opposition to same-sex relationship inclusion. 

I am a straight male, and the only reason I bring that up is to show that there are people who are not homosexual who are not freightened by the idea of a video game having same-sex relationship and do think that their intentional exclusion from a game especially like SWTOR is a sad cop out for a game developer that is usually better than this. 

All this worry about relationships between the same gender.. at least they're the same "species".

Kirk (for example) is one Bestiality prone MoFo (Its intercourse with a different "species" not just animals).

So if Bioware are being strong-armed to keep Same sex storylines out then they need to look VERY closely at the psychological impact of any Inter Species relations too.. Just cos she's hot doesn't make it right if she has green skin or tentacles instead of hair!

Real difference, one has been reinforced in the social attitudes through sci-fi over the last 40 years.. the other hasn't!

Originally posted by erictlewis

Why do we even need sex relations in a video game, that is what real life is for.  Honestly some of these folks need to go get a real life and find a real partner to have relations with.

I really don't want my game play junked up with sexual relations,  I been around other games where chat channels was filled with that vile filth of folks wanting to cyber.

So I would just rather they don't have any type of sexual content at all, that would fix this.

But doesn't that make the assumption that the only way romantic relations can manifest themselves is through "cyber"?

One can role play (if one was predisposed to do this) a romantic relationship and not have to go into brutal sexual detail in public.

I said this in another post so will say it again, we are sexual beings. Quite frankly I always find it odd to be playing a game and not have some sort of romantic or sexual tension. Partly because I see it all the time in real life. The absence of it seems artificial.

My thougth is that the more these games, role playing games, start to become more rounded, include more options, the more some will see the absence of personal relations as a huge hole that needs to be filled.

What was the Ultima Online revival he mentioned in the article? Archeage?

So long as I can see hawt Jawa on Jawa action, then I'll be fine with whatever they do.

Originally posted by aslan132

Its a freaking video game. And its quite large, with millions of dollars gone into development, and alot of that has to do with voice acting, it aint cheap. If they choose to limit the work they have to do by narrowing the player choices, how is that anymore than limiting gender option in the first place?

 Really, can people stop using this as a justification?  This is not some low budget F2P game gender locking their toons to save whatever money they can in a game that is without sex and relationships to begin with.  This is a Bioware game backed up by EA.  It's got 5 million words of dialog.  I'm not saying that adding same sex relationships is only going to bring it up to 5 million and 4 words when they add "nice shoes, wanna f**k?" but seriously, we're talking about an incredibly small percentage increase here.

My guess is if they included it they would offend some people, and if they did not include it they would offend some people. The people they would offend if they did not include it is in the minority, so they chose to leave it out.

Fact is people are going overboard with all this, and getting pissed just because Bioware didnt include some certain feature they were looking for. Oh well guys, its their game they can put in whatever they like, and for anyone to stop being interested because of one tiny feature they wanted that didnt get added then good riddance, you wernt going to make the game better in any way by taking part in it for the sake of ingame relationships.

Originally posted by Dalgor

Fact is people are going overboard with all this, and getting pissed just because Bioware didnt include some certain feature they were looking for. Oh well guys, its their game they can put in whatever they like, and for anyone to stop being interested because of one tiny feature they wanted that didnt get added then good riddance, you wernt going to make the game better in any way by taking part in it for the sake of ingame relationships.

I suppose, in the end, it comes down to that. It's their game and they get to make it however they want or need. No more, no less.

Given how cheaply and freely Bioware threw Bisexuality into Dragon Age, I am willing to bet the reason it isnt in ToR is more a Lucas Arts thing than a Bioware thing.....

So two men cant just be friends in SW without beeing homosexuals?

Originally posted by Kothoses

Given how cheaply and freely Bioware threw Bisexuality into Dragon Age, I am willing to bet the reason it isnt in ToR is more a Lucas Arts thing than a Bioware thing.....

Oh I doubt they will again after this.  Whether its Bioware Edmunton or Bioware Austin or whatever.  If I was in charge, I would be able to see that ever putting it in was a mistake.  Because there's now precident for this with past games, we're now required to do it with every game no matter what, and if we dont the fans go insane.  Its just not worth it.  Because of this outcry and how rediculous its been, dont expect to ever see homosexuality in Bioware game again.  In fact Id imagine the industry in general is taking notice of this.  Thats what the homosexual ranting has earned them.  And I say they deserve every bit of having it taken away from the industry entirely. 

I also agree its probably a Lucas Arts thing.  Absolutely.  Which goes back to my first point.  They've made games with homosexuality in them.  Unfortunately there will occasionally be the case that the owners of an IP dont agree with that and refuse to have it in their game, at which point the entire gay community gets in an uproar.  Solution?  Never include it again with any game ever. 

Good job folks.  By ranting and raving about it not being in TOR, its highly possible you may never see it again in any other game either.  Keep it up. 

Originally posted by Incomparable

Originally posted by maji

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children.  Thats ONE reason.

But why would a relationship between two women for example be damaging for a child, while a relationship between a guy and a woman wouldn't?

A child is expected to be like everyone else, or the masses. It offers the most 'conformity' to be the same. So people would want thier kid to fit in, rather than to be different, even if society 'accepts' them.

There are probably other reasons.

 

Anyone that just 'wants their kid to fit in' has no business having children.  

Its not like the romance arc appeals to most children anyway.

What youa re doing is enforcing the idea that homosexuality is not accepted so if that child does happen to be gay hell be getting the message 'gay is bad' from much earlier than normal.

So really its worse for children than it is better.  By the time these kids grow up Gay marraige will be accepted and things will be mostly right, by why give em the extra confusion that it is wrong to be gay when it is not?

I guess I don't understand why it's that big a deal that they didn't include it in the game. When it is included in the game, there isn't an uproar. Why is that?