Originally posted by cali59

Originally posted by Cannyone

I guess I'm a bit confused by the hoopla... People want to have same sex romances, with "Companions" in SWTOR?  Why?  Just because they had that in Dragon age?  This is an MMORPG for crying out loud.  If they want to have a same sex relationship why not have one with another player?  Are they such loosers that they have to get their "love" from a "companion"?  Or, a better way to put it, are they just so socially inept that they have insist BioWare provide a "simulated relationship" just for them?

Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.

I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.

It's about equality.  Let's look at your first paragraph.  Heterosexual options for companions exist but you have no problem with them.  However, you think any homosexual should seek out other players for their romance because it's an MMORPG and that they're losers if they want to have a game supported story romance option from a companion.  If you want to argue that nobody should want this option because anybody who does is a loser, that's fine, but there is a real double standard here if you're ok with it for heterosexuals but not homosexuals.

As far as your second paragraph, you're not putting yourself in someone else's shoes.  Presuming you're a heterosexual, options for you are already in the game, so you're not interested in homosexual options, they aren't for you.  You want to see them work on the part of the game you are interested in and you justify those by saying they have universal appeal.  However, you have to realize that they already spent valuable time on something that doesn't have universal appeal, namely heterosexual relationships. 

Again, it's one thing if they would have spent no time whatsoever on companion romance, because after all, it is an MMORPG and maybe players should be focusing on other players instead of companions.  But once they spend time including heterosexual stuff, it's discriminatory to homosexual players to not include the same options for them.

{mod edit}

While it may be 2011, the place is an mmo, for kids. How is heterosexual content any different? Well, the idea of hetersexuality wont be a new thing if that is a concern since that theme would exist in other media, cartoons, etc, that a little kissing might arouse those little buggers but it wont be something new, or different that arouses them. Yes, some people will get aroused to the game romances. 

{mod edit}  I don;'t care if it has homosexual stuff in the game, but don't expect me to put myself in that situation and say it is equal and should be in. Since this is a game, equality in this regard is a bit more complex than shared opportunities/laws in the real world. Firstly the fair representation of homosexuality in SW, if every companion could be gay, then that makes the SW story for us 50% gay and 50% hetero. Which is not the case in the SW lore. 

Also if you are going to talk about equality, which is about laws, then how does that apply to a game? Those laws apply to all humans. If you are human then eqaulity applies. Humans also naturally/mostly are hetero, so why go out of the way to represent something unequally, other than a wanting demographic? Well, the case could be that BW did it before.

They did it before with other games. This is more of a kids game, and SW canon.

Again, I think the most important point, is the kind of atmosphere it would create with gay companions.

I swear, I am not sure if people are trolling that they want gay companions or they are serioius for an online kids game.

Anyways, I can see BW adding some companions which could be gay later on, and that would be more true to the EU representation which is not George Lucas's version of SW anyways. Yet, that exists in KOTOR as something more subtle with female leopard species.

Whatever, food for thought. Keep on trucking.

I don't see the point of this. People will say why they want it. They want equality. Those who do not want it, are either bigoted, homophobic, or religoius. It can't be other reasons.

So whats the point in arguing? It is going to be interesting to see why BW decided to do what they did.

Originally posted by teakbois

 

They actually caused more controversy by limiting their system to opposite sex characters.

 Well, you can't know that can you? :D If you're talking about "forums" as the place for controversy, maybe. But that's   hardly the place BioWare is probably most concerned about.

 

Homosexuality in games is very commonplace.  Its far bigger news that they are excluding it and going against the norm, as opposed to including it.

 Is it? I'm not convinced it is, implied in some games, sure, but as far as actual romances go that you can work out, I've not seen all that many games do that. In recent times some RPG's did include that option. Many more didn't.

Super Mario Brothers 2 way back in the 80s had a male that thought he was a female (Birdo)

Thinking you're a woman is certainly not an expression of homosexuality. It's also far off from being an actual romance.

Most games with character options have gay options too.  Ultima games had it.  Final Fantasy games had it.  Fable.  Any Bioware game obviously.  Star Ocean.  list goes on and on

There are quite a few who have it, but again, romances are something different from dragging a random person in the game world into a "screen goes black" cutscene after giving them a number of virtual gifts. Kotor I&II didn't have them btw.

 

None of these games had any huge outcry.  The loudest uproar ive seen was over Runes of Magic, and that lasted about two days.

I'm not saying the game shouldn't have it, quite the opposite, but I'm looking for reasons why it doesn't have them, of which controversy is one of the more obvious ones imo.

I can't even really come up with anything else, seeing as they did them in all of their latest games.

Originally posted by cali59

Originally posted by Cannyone

{mod edit}

Seems like a really self centered concern to me... I'd rather they work on "other content" personally.  Like incorporating more character customization options.  Or custominzing your ship in various ways.  Or expanding the Space game... The list gets really long really fast.  And Everybody is more likely to appreciate the value of those things.  Instead of spending valuable time developing content which will most likely not have universal appeal.

I mean I could see what they did in Dragon age.  But there your primary interactions were with your companions.  SWTOR should be different if for no other reason that it is designed to be a multiplayer experience.  That's the part that makes this topic so bizzare.

It's about equality.  Let's look at your first paragraph.  Heterosexual options for companions exist but you have no problem with them.  However, you think any homosexual should seek out other players for their romance because it's an MMORPG and that they're losers if they want to have a game supported story romance option from a companion.  If you want to argue that nobody should want this option because anybody who does is a loser, that's fine, but there is a real double standard here if you're ok with it for heterosexuals but not homosexuals.

As far as your second paragraph, you're not putting yourself in someone else's shoes.  Presuming you're a heterosexual, options for you are already in the game, so you're not interested in homosexual options, they aren't for you.  You want to see them work on the part of the game you are interested in and you justify those by saying they have universal appeal.  However, you have to realize that they already spent valuable time on something that doesn't have universal appeal, namely heterosexual relationships. 

Again, it's one thing if they would have spent no time whatsoever on companion romance, because after all, it is an MMORPG and maybe players should be focusing on other players instead of companions.  But once they spend time including heterosexual stuff, it's discriminatory to homosexual players to not include the same options for them.

 

There are options for "heterosexual relationships" with companions in SWTOR?  Really!?!  Why would one want, or need, a relationship with a companion when you are playing in a world populated by other players?  That's what I don't understand!  It just makes no sense to me.

I'm not saying anything about stiffling equality.  I just don't think BioWare should be working on making SWTOR that much of a "Single Player RPG".  I mean its supposed to be an MMORPG, or was that changed when I wasn't looking?

Still, if as you say, they've developed content for heterosexuals then I'm gonna get pissed at BioWare.  They have too many other things to do and they shouldn't be wasting time on stuff that doesn't have the potential to appeal to everyone.  Because I do, at least, agree that there should be equality.

Guess its time to go make some comments on the official forums... (for which I'll probably get banned... Again!)

its only a story option. the story option only even comes up if u have chosen the right stuff leading up to it also. So truth is u could go a whole class quest nd never see it show up. 

This is a story based mmo they are gonna use the stuff that made them a succesful company in the first place like companion characters and romance of your companions if u choose. 

That said i dont see the big deal im probably gonna turn down the chance to romance my guys even if i get the oppurtunity. 

They have alot of other stuff that makes this not a single player game but not everyone wants to group every second they play an mmo.

Forced grouping i games doesnt work anymore cause no one wants to be stuck on a character because they cant find a group to move on . 

That said i dont see why the outrage about the ability to romance a ficition character in a game. Seems silly to me but hey to each there own.

Well, as seems typical for the tryannical EA Moderators on the SWTOR forums, all threads relating to this issue have been locked down tight!  So simply starting a new thread, about a "locked" thread, means that "new thread" gets deleted the moment you try to post it.  Plus you get a "Warning" for being bad. 

Isn't it wonderful when company just can't handle controversy?  :rolleyes:  (Why am I hearing that "Barbie Girl" song playing in my head??  Oh yeah!  I don't live in their perfect world were eveyone thinks the same...)

Please, MMORPG.com, don't Ever let it become like that Here! 

Not true ive been posting in a thread at tor abut this in the last day it hasnt been locked yet. Theres a new one about romance arcs in general and if they should be included. 

That said ive been posting in a thread on tor forums for 3 days now and its the same one and hasnt been locked.

Originally posted by Cannyone

Well, as seems typical for the tryannical EA Moderators on the SWTOR forums, all threads relating to this issue have been locked down tight!  So simply starting a new thread, about a "locked" thread, means that "new thread" gets deleted the moment you try to post it.  Plus you get a "Warning" for being bad. 

Isn't it wonderful when company just can't handle controversy?  :rolleyes:  (Why am I hearing that "Barbie Girl" song playing in my head??  Oh yeah!  I don't live in their perfect world were eveyone thinks the same...)

Please, MMORPG.com, don't Ever let it become like that Here! 

Lol. This just made me laugh. How long have you been here? Followed any DCUO threads a few months back, maybe?

As for the topic, I find it kind of ironic that BW is trashed for not implementing something ingame that isn't in any other MMO, let alone most singleplayer games, at all. I mean, wow...

Same for the whole "I'm disappointed discussion", seriously, people should get more realistic and manage their expectations better. We know most of the features in SWTOR, we know what SWTOR will be as type of MMO, if those things can't interest you then don't expect any miracle announcement that'll fuel the flames of excitement for you.

As much as I want to play this game, if it allows relationships at all, and I can't have a relationship in-game like I have in real life, I'm not playing, no matter how much I'm intrested. Sorry.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

 

 

As for the topic, I find it kind of ironic that BW is trashed for not implementing something ingame that isn't in any other MMO, let alone most singleplayer games, at all. I mean, wow...

 

 

Every MMO that I can think of that recognizes relationships/marraiges allows same sex.  Most single player games are the same.

Bioware has chosen to become an EXCEPTION, not the norm.

Originally posted by alexhpy98721

 

 {mod edit}

 

The game is going to be rated teen, is it not?  Therefore unless you are letting your son play a game over his age bracket anyway he will be fine.

Kids 13 or older arent scarred by this sort of thing.  In fact, kids *should* see it so they understand that its an acceptable part of human behavior.   You are only uncomfortable with it ebcause being gay was taboo when you grew up.  It is not now.

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Verterdegete

This is getting really tiresome. Accept it, majority of people hate this stuff and don't want it in their game. If you want same sex relationships in SWTOR, roleplay it with someone.

Numbers please with a cited reference.  And majority in this case is 50% +1?  Not exactly a sweeping endorsement, that.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_is_gay

 

Now I dont know how many necessarily HATE that stuff, but no, 50% of the population is not gay.  I doubt 50% of gamers are gay either.  Its probably no where close.  No matter how you spin it, homosexuals are a minority.  Even in San Francisco for Gods sake.  Its not just a slight minority.  Its a gigantic one.  No matter where you go. 

 

Of course SOME gay people (not all) are so loud and in your face about it, in some places it may seem you're surrounded by them but thats really not the case. 

50%+1 ?  Seriously get real. 

 

Over 50% support gay marriage. I would think that implies that a majority do not hate LGBT relationships. Source, gallup poll

http://www.gallup.com/poll/147662/first-time-majority-americans-favor-legal-gay-marriage.aspx

Previous polls show a much higher percentage that support some legal recognition, like civil unions.

Whatever your personal opinions on the subject, the tide has turned. The majority of people in the U.S. think the gays should have equal rights.

As a straight man who plans to have kids, I am happy about this. I don't want my kids to grow up thinking they are not allowed to love who they want. If it weren't for right wing folks on the news, I would actually think that homophobia died decades ago. I don't personally know anyone who would say anything against someone being LGB or T.

I would rather they take all romance arcs out of the game so we don't have to have this discussion any more.  Have romance arcs with people... not with pixels.

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Kwintpod

I don't see how gay or lesbian relationships would be any less suitable than straight relationships for a younger audience 

{mod edit}

Finally someone with the guts to be honest.  I totally disagree your opinion, but I applaud the fact that you're at least not trying to cloud your position with a lot of bullshit justifications.  This is at the heart of the decision.  Everything else stems from it.

I won't even bother listing any of the huge number of other animal species on the planet who engage in same-sex behaviour with one another, without the benefit of human engineered morality to dissuade them.    

 

It's NOT my fault that  wookies excite me, I was born this way!!  Listen LBGT stop acting like the wrold is against you , they are not, nor is bioware. When you boil it down ,it's a game with the soul intention of entertaining its audience, nothing more nothing less. In my humble opinion MMORPGs should take you away from the daily grind and  help you obtain a certin level of peace. Bringing real world issues into an outlet ment to provide an escape from the "BS"  we deal with every day will only destroy what  so many of us long for. I understand that we all want to feel included in a virtual community but just because the chat mechanics dont allow an  ALT. sexual option doesnt mean that such an option is looked down upon. I understand that many feeel strongly about this but i dont see anyone offering any constructuive soulutions or offering thier personal time to add the chat/voice options. Everyone has an opinion, some just stink more than others. loom at your self , better yet look at the real reason you care so much, I doubt it's the game.

Originally posted by Jdraskovics

It's NOT my fault that  wookies excite me, I was born this way!!  Listen LBGT stop acting like the wrold is against you , they are not, nor is bioware. When you boil it down ,it's a game with the soul intention of entertaining its audience, nothing more nothing less. In my humble opinion MMORPGs should take you away from the daily grind and  help you obtain a certin level of peace. Bringing real world issues into an outlet ment to provide an escape from the "BS"  we deal with every day will only destroy what  so many of us long for. I understand that we all want to feel included in a virtual community but just because the chat mechanics dont allow an  ALT. sexual option doesnt mean that such an option is looked down upon. I understand that many feeel strongly about this but i dont see anyone offering any constructuive soulutions or offering thier personal time to add the chat/voice options. Everyone has an opinion, some just stink more than others. loom at your self , better yet look at the real reason you care so much, I doubt it's the game.

^ this is exactly right.  who cares if theres no same sex option in a GAME!!!! No one gave two shits about this 10 years ago. Why is it a problem now?

Originally posted by donjuanagain

Originally posted by Jdraskovics

It's NOT my fault that  wookies excite me, I was born this way!!  Listen LBGT stop acting like the wrold is against you , they are not, nor is bioware. When you boil it down ,it's a game with the soul intention of entertaining its audience, nothing more nothing less. In my humble opinion MMORPGs should take you away from the daily grind and  help you obtain a certin level of peace. Bringing real world issues into an outlet ment to provide an escape from the "BS"  we deal with every day will only destroy what  so many of us long for. I understand that we all want to feel included in a virtual community but just because the chat mechanics dont allow an  ALT. sexual option doesnt mean that such an option is looked down upon. I understand that many feeel strongly about this but i dont see anyone offering any constructuive soulutions or offering thier personal time to add the chat/voice options. Everyone has an opinion, some just stink more than others. loom at your self , better yet look at the real reason you care so much, I doubt it's the game.

^ this is exactly right.  who cares if theres no same sex option in a GAME!!!! No one gave two shits about this 10 years ago. Why is it a problem now?

Say what you want, Bioware has said many times that their romance story arcs are VERY popular, and that this was a feature beta feedback greatly highlighted, or so Bioware said.

I know what star wars needs.  Everyone represented.

We need wops, jigaboos, porch monkeys, slopes, zipperheads, necrophiliacs, pedophile priests, cultists, fagalope monkeyfu<#ers, drag queens, people who have sex with inanimate objects, compulsive masterbaters, dagos, gator bait, hajis, spear chuckers, christ killers, limeys, redskins, space wiggers, spics, astral jews and nips from romulus.  Only then can all the human trash be represented in this fictional reality.

Then we can rename the game "Big Gay Star Whores in Outer Space".

Would that make all you complainers feel better?

Same sex marriage in a game is so California. Keep it out and stop being so liberal. Republicans all the way in 2012. By Obama

---

Originally posted by Von_Kleist
I know what star wars needs.  Everyone represented. We need wops, jigaboos, porch monkeys, slopes, zipperheads, necrophiliacs, pedophile priests, cultists, fagalope monkeyfu<#ers, drag queens, people who have sex with inanimate objects, compulsive masterbaters, dagos, gator bait, hajis, spear chuckers, christ killers, limeys, redskins, space wiggers, spics, astral jews and nips from romulus.  Only then can all the human trash be represented in this fictional reality. Then we can rename the game "Big Gay Star Whores in Outer Space".Would that make all you complainers feel better?

---

You hit the nail on the head.