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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Doing things differently. (compiled list of what SW:TOR does differently to the standard MMOs)

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130 posts found
  DLangley

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 1430

9/15/11 6:36:09 PM#101

Let's avoid baiting others into personal attacks guys. Thanks!

  Spalliero

Novice Member

Joined: 2/04/07
Posts: 150

9/15/11 7:47:39 PM#102
Originally posted by whilan

Okay I see the comment a lot, and i don't mean just here. But i see it a lot that people will state that the game isn't doing anything differently from the standard MMO, and i'm going to try and make a list of everything the game is doing differently so people can see as it may not be entirely apparent at first sight. Note this isn't about innovation so just becuase a feature i'm listing is in some remote MMO doesn't mean it doesn't belong on this list. Note things like auto attack and fast cooldowns don't meet this list because quite a few MMOs do this.

I"m going to split this up in sections.

Combat: The big one,mind as well start here. 

Duck and cover: yes two classes get this but it's still a new way to do combat.  How it works is that you select an enemy then hit the duck and cover button to roll behind cover. While you are behind cover (provided the cover is high enough) the enemy will basically hit the cover instead of you causing you to take no damage. But if you come out of cover to say...take a shot at the enemy, you are at risk of getting hit yourself. This provides a different way of combat from the straight up tank, the blasting of a mage or the use of invis to get behind the target. Think cops and robbers type thing.

CC immunity bar

If you continue to get hit by CCs either by other players or NPCs you will become immune which is different from other games where the CC immunity is more basd on stats and if you are not skilled in resisting the stat that the enemy is using there is a good chance (especially with players) that you can be locked down becoming completely ineffective.

Heavy use of pets

Most MMos tend to have one or two pet classes here everyone is, and they are highly customizable from anywhere from looks to AI control to types to being able to equip them to the same complexity as your main character. Thus spliting your character into two seperate parts.

Lets move on to crafting

Companions are involved in crafting. Their abilities tell who is better at crafting certain items better then others thus providing a bit more complexity to crafting then normal. Most games have the character actually crafting. Some are more complex but in most cases the game requires you to gather mats, the blueprint then hit craft and voila you have the mats. Rarer is when their is a timer on said item allowing for a more realistic crafting time as it takes time to put things together.

Timer

This is a differnet way to go about crafting, it's been done before but not often enough to feel stale or done to death so it sort of fits.  Crafting takes time (as i outlined above) to do. If you gather the mats and the blueprints. When you hit craft you have a timer until the item is complete. THe player doesn't really have any control over the item but it's a middle road between player control and just hitting the craft button and getting the item. Think Fallen earth here.

Crits

While not completely new, it's different from most MMOs i've seen where you either get the item or you don't. Here appearntly you can get a better version of the weapon. (this one is debatable on the list, so far 3 MMOs have been listed)

Lets move on to character customization, this one i'm going to have to split into parts because theres a good bit here.

Light and dark allignment

Your allignment has a few effects on character customization. Note this is as far as i know purely cosmetic so it doesn't change how well your character does.

Light/dark allignment changes your skills: this gives your character a more defined look as your skills change as you slide up and down the allignment changes.

Armor dependant on your alignment: some armor is dependant on your allignment, such as some armor requires a certain ranking of light/dark to equip

Your face for force users changes based on your allignment allowing for a different look for your charcther if your really dark sided your face distorts and looks...well evil.

NPCs react to your dark and light allignment

Some dialog options close off based on your allignment

Equipment customization.

Equipment is based more solely on what mods you have in your weapon and armor rather then the equipment itself, equipment more solely bases on how many mods are allowed in said equipment that will then depict your stats from there.

The mods you have in your weapon/armor depict your weapons sound and color (ala lightsaber colors or blaster fire)

These two basically (assuming you can take mods in and out at will) allow for you to make any weapon you want provided you have the original, even take a low level weapon and armor such as if you like the brown robe from level 1, you could improve it to the stat where you can use that same brown robe for end-game.

Questing

This is probably the biggest change and departure and where all the focus/innovation is coming in.

Voice over, as much as people might like to try and deny or say it's a passing phase theres a differnece between just text and voice acting.  Most games have some voice acting and some not, but no game has the level of voice acting this game does.  Thus it's a very big depature on how they do quests.

Interaction with npcs, such as talking back and forth with them, even being able to hit them.

Choices in quests allowing you to take different versions of the quest which result in different experiences when you play out the quest, and even different rewards. Most MMOs have you simply doing a quest for said reward, however here what you do in the actual quest when taking progressing and turning in change how the quest ends and what rewards you get.

Pursasion is an optino in questing, allowing you to attempt to get the upper hand by using a stat you invested in to get better rewards that might not be available to one who doesn't.

multiplayer dialog, to my knowledge this is an innovation but people are free to correct me if they've run into this before. But allowing a person to affect someone elses quest via dialog seems a pretty big depature from how normal MMOs do it where you can either do the quest and complete your own or help someone else do theres but the interaction stops when they go to turn in the quest, not so here, group interaction is not only allowed but encouraged as you get rewarded for doing group dialog and interacting in others quests.

Hologram system

This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know the way this is implemented with being able to make decisions in others peoples quests without having to actually be there hasn't been done before.

Companions

Being able to influence your companion from light to dark or dark to light

Influences your crafting abilities.

Getting quests from your companions if you talk to them enough.

Companions are able to go from loving you to betraying you even to crying in your ship if you are a total jerk to them.

 

Dungeons (aka flashpoints)

Changing dungeons based on choices in the dungeons

Players can get access to alternate paths and different bosses if they of the right class

Different loot at the end of flashpoints based on the decisions made in the flashpoint

 

PvP

As mentioned above there is a CC immunity bar that everyone must be aware of and it's visable which gives for a more tatic route. Also this keeps players from being stun locked by another class merely because they lack the resistance to overcome said CC.

Warriors and healers can actually preform the desired role they want in PvP they did in PvE as they get rewarded for doing said role.

Warrior taunt works in PvP by making it undesirable for people to attack others besides the tank as their damage is severaly reduced.

 

Exploration

Exploration in this game give you several rewards including,

Datacrons (which give permanent stat boosts): This isn't normal as i think only one other game did this and it was more of a grind thing where as these are more of a reward for exploration

options for dialog with your companions: Again this is tied in with the companion but getting to certain exploration areas can give you new oppertunities for dialog with your npcs as they comment on the areas

codex entries: Your lore background

 

Misc

We finally get to the misc category which is basically everything i didn't feel fit into th other categories or wasn't enough to warrent a whole new category

Codex entries: This is where you get all your lore from anytime you run into some you can easily look back at this codex to get a refresher, this can include anything from a temple to a boss to companions or items which tend to be quite descriptive.

No loading for instances: When you do eventually enter a instance in the game there is a green barrier which indicates an instance, this is completely instantanious and does not require loading, so you can go into your instance do what you want walk backwards walk forward enter someone elses instance, do their thing then back up and walk forward back into your instance all without ever hitting one loading screen...ever.

Cheoregraphed combat: This one might be cosmetic but most games have you just swinging away as if you were swining at air. EQ2 was the biggest offender i've ever seen of this where you have literal gap where you can clearly see that not only are they not synced with each other but not even close but still hitting each other. In this game you can actually clash swords which makes things more beliveable.

 

Obviously this list can be amended as new things that are done differently (not innovative, lets not confuse the term, just done differently from the norm aka the standard) then most other MMOs or it comes out that things on this list are a normal part of MMOs (hopefully i've done my research and that won't happen much)

 

You are off your rockef if you think those haven't been done before or are already in use in most mmorpgs. I haven't seen inovation in ToR, nothing that I haven't done in a miriade of mmorpgs preceding it.

In all fairness, I doubt there will be many mmorpgs that do it so polished from day one. Also there will be many many mmorpgs after ToR that copy the formulae too.

Sic Luceat Lux

  ignore_me

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/04/11
Posts: 2034

9/15/11 7:58:47 PM#103

dude, icon!

Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011

  trash656

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 378

It is easier to Fight for Principles then it is to Live up to them.

9/16/11 7:42:00 AM#104
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by trash656
I mean even as someone like you who is a big fan of Themeparks, you got to admit. They really have over-done the whole WoW forumula. Don't you think?

Of course the WoW instigated, game-instead-of-world focus as design concept has been followed far too often, I've stated this many times and praised the diversity and variety in the upcoming MMO's. In fact, I've as often stated that in my opinion a themepark-sandbox hybrid approach is the healthiest design model for MMO's

That doesn't mean though that I've suddenly lost the ability to grasp the differences and improvements/changes from one MMORPG to another, whether it's a themepark MMO or sandbox or otherwise.

Some people who've grown an allergy or aversion towards themepark MMO's or who've become jaded and burnt out by over exposure to (certain) MMO gameplay seemed to have lost the ability to acknowledge or recognise differences in their craving for something revolutionarily different from what they've grown to despise. I think that even if something isn't your type of game, you can still be able to discern the goods, the bads and the distinctions of each MMO. It only requires people to be objective and have an open mind, nothing more.

I like the way you think MMO Maverick <333

  Supersoups

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 1062

9/16/11 7:44:27 AM#105
Originally posted by Spalliero
You are off your rockef if you think those haven't been done before or are already in use in most mmorpgs. I haven't seen inovation in ToR, nothing that I haven't done in a miriade of mmorpgs preceding it.

In all fairness, I doubt there will be many mmorpgs that do it so polished from day one. Also there will be many many mmorpgs after ToR that copy the formulae too.

Reading is very important. He is talking about standard features that you see almost in every MMO. In comparison to standard MMOS yes TOR is doing quite a lot of things differently. Everything has been used before in some online or offline game by that logic we should also not praise GW2 for doing things differently? all FPS look the same, strategy look the same...everything looks like something else.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

9/20/11 4:58:03 PM#106
Originally posted by trash656
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by trash656
I mean even as someone like you who is a big fan of Themeparks, you got to admit. They really have over-done the whole WoW forumula. Don't you think?

Of course the WoW instigated, game-instead-of-world focus as design concept has been followed far too often, I've stated this many times and praised the diversity and variety in the upcoming MMO's. In fact, I've as often stated that in my opinion a themepark-sandbox hybrid approach is the healthiest design model for MMO's

That doesn't mean though that I've suddenly lost the ability to grasp the differences and improvements/changes from one MMORPG to another, whether it's a themepark MMO or sandbox or otherwise.

Some people who've grown an allergy or aversion towards themepark MMO's or who've become jaded and burnt out by over exposure to (certain) MMO gameplay seemed to have lost the ability to acknowledge or recognise differences in their craving for something revolutionarily different from what they've grown to despise. I think that even if something isn't your type of game, you can still be able to discern the goods, the bads and the distinctions of each MMO. It only requires people to be objective and have an open mind, nothing more.

I like the way you think MMO Maverick <333

Lol, only just saw this thread again. Thanks

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  Xondar123

Gumshoe

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 2601

9/21/11 5:38:17 AM#107

Fallen Earth has seamless instances that you don't need loading screens for. First game I ever saw those in.

I also don't see a biggie on the list: Personal starships. I've never seen an MMO that uses a vehicle as your home base and as a method of transportation to other parts of the game world. Personal starships are fairly standard in single player games, two famous ones are the Ebon Hawk and the Normandy, both also from Bioware games, but it is a new concept for MMORPGs.

xondar10 Xfire Miniprofile
  tkoreaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 421

9/21/11 5:58:30 AM#108

All the spaceship is is a place between loading screens =/ ... It's false immersion.

  Xondar123

Gumshoe

Joined: 11/08/07
Posts: 2601

9/21/11 6:01:33 AM#109
Originally posted by observer
Originally posted by RefMinor

The most innovative thing about SW:TOR is the fact that Bioware have taken an MMORPG and turned it into a single player game, albeit allowing a few other RL people to join in each set piece.

This is so true on so many levels.

Completely untrue actuallyt. Well, I guess it's true if you know nothing about the game. The PvP TOR is offering on its own invalidates this point completely.

Can we stop with the "THIS IS A SINGLE PLAYER GAME!" nonsense?

xondar10 Xfire Miniprofile
  GMan3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/10
Posts: 2239

9/21/11 6:35:23 AM#110
Originally posted by tkoreaper

All the spaceship is is a place between loading screens =/ ... It's false immersion.

    False immersion?  You are making a pretty big stretch here.  BioWare takes something they can NOT avoid and finds a way to actually make it interesting instead of annoying.  That isn't "false immersion", it is genius.  The only people that would really try to detract from the concept, in my opinion, are people actively looking for a reason to hate a game and personally I'll never understand why anyone would try to do that to any game that.  Especially considering that 99.99% of them haven't even played it, so they are making an uninformed opinion based on absolutely nothing.

"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"

  nitefly

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/26/06
Posts: 340

9/21/11 8:06:14 AM#111

To me TOR just feels like yet another stab at the "multiplayer" part of MMORPG. Why create a multiplayer game and go out of your way to make the player as little dependent on others as possible?

Unless the world is interactive in such a way that the terrain, cities, NPCs and so on change based on the sum of all players' actions it simply becomes yet another "playing alongside" game.

Why developers of MMORPGs are so scared of inter-player dependence is beyond me.

  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 1078

9/21/11 8:14:56 AM#112
Originally posted by whilan

 

Obviously this list can be amended as new things that are done differently (not innovative, lets not confuse the term, just done differently from the norm aka the standard) then most other MMOs or it comes out that things on this list are a normal part of MMOs (hopefully i've done my research and that won't happen much)

 

funny half of things on your list i'm sure I saw in several games over the years, hell even alignment was used on one really old game, and not they are not doing anything diferently unless you say hide/duck in a cover is diferently from hide, or stay behind a shield.

 

so yeah, unless you started playing MMos with WoW or/and are too lazy to search, you know this game will bring nothing new to the table.

FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

9/21/11 8:34:49 AM#113
Originally posted by alkarionlog

funny half of things on your list i'm sure I saw in several games over the years, hell even alignment was used on one really old game, and not they are not doing anything diferently unless you say hide/duck in a cover is diferently from hide, or stay behind a shield.

 so yeah, unless you started playing MMos with WoW or/and are too lazy to search, you know this game will bring nothing new to the table.

Meh, this again

I'm sure that literally everything in every new game, MMORPG or singleplayer game, has been done somewhere before, whether it's in some obscure, little known game or in a more rudimentary form.

People are expecting innovations to be completely never-been-done before, revolutionarily new? Won't happen, unless there's some new technology that enables things that weren't possible before. Else you can bet your ass that a so called innovation has been done somewhere before, even if it was in a smaller or more rudimentary, more basic form.

 

In short, as good as all innovation are merely evolution, not revolution, of existing gameplay mechanics. Some take a larger evolutionary step than other changes, but they're still no radically revolutionary new systems.

 

That said, SWTOR introduces a number of things that are far from common and were rarely (if at all) seen before in other MMO's: Companions that don't help in combat as pets do, but that also can fill in an empty 4th slot in a group and contribute in quests and crafting and who'll respond differently based upon the choices you make, Crew Skills system, decisionbased branched questing that impact outcomes and follow up quests, cover system, and so on, see the rest of this thread for the various things.

If someone says that those are all changes or differences that don't do it for them, ok, that I can understand: to someone who for example hates themepark MMO gameplay, all variations or distinctions in the features are moot because it's all garbage to him anyway, so of course he won't be able to discern the difference to in his eyes one piece of garbage and another piece of garbage.

That doesn't mean he'll be right, though: there are quite some differences and distinctions to find by people who can be objective about it even when it's about games or features that they themselves don't like.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  xKingdomx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 1550

9/21/11 9:31:12 AM#114
Originally posted by whilan

Duck and cover: yes two classes get this but it's still a new way to do combat.  How it works is that you select an enemy then hit the duck and cover button to roll behind cover. While you are behind cover (provided the cover is high enough) the enemy will basically hit the cover instead of you causing you to take no damage. But if you come out of cover to say...take a shot at the enemy, you are at risk of getting hit yourself. This provides a different way of combat from the straight up tank, the blasting of a mage or the use of invis to get behind the target. Think cops and robbers type thing.

I don't understand why this is class restricted, are Jedis so sort of species that unable to allow themselves to hide behind cover? I hope they can improve in this aspect, because from what I've seen so far, this cover system doesn't play greatly into combat, meaning it doesn't do much to actually deviate from the traditional combat.

 

Heavy use of pets

Most MMos tend to have one or two pet classes here everyone is, and they are highly customizable from anywhere from looks to AI control to types to being able to equip them to the same complexity as your main character. Thus spliting your character into two seperate parts.

I'm not too familiar with the droid concept, so what functionality do they hol other than customisation and story-telling value?

 

Questing

This is probably the biggest change and departure and where all the focus/innovation is coming in.

Voice over, as much as people might like to try and deny or say it's a passing phase theres a differnece between just text and voice acting.  Most games have some voice acting and some not, but no game has the level of voice acting this game does.  Thus it's a very big depature on how they do quests.

DCUO's quest are actually all voice acted

multiplayer dialog, to my knowledge this is an innovation but people are free to correct me if they've run into this before. But allowing a person to affect someone elses quest via dialog seems a pretty big depature from how normal MMOs do it where you can either do the quest and complete your own or help someone else do theres but the interaction stops when they go to turn in the quest, not so here, group interaction is not only allowed but encouraged as you get rewarded for doing group dialog and interacting in others quests.

They don't 'make' the choice for you, because group dialogue is only when you are in flashpoint or in operations. The multiplayer dialogue simply sets the path for THAT flashpoint, you can always run it again for a different choice, and you will still get your alignment point based on the attempted choice you made.

Hologram system

This allows you to not only turn in quests remotely but allows you to join in others peoples quest even if your not close but are still on the same planet. Far as i know the way this is implemented with being able to make decisions in others peoples quests without having to actually be there hasn't been done before.

Again, DCUO has actually done the whole "turn in quest remotely", and it was actually great, it makes the story flow forward, instead of having to constnatly run to different spots for almost no purpose other than handing in quest.

 

Misc

No loading for instances: When you do eventually enter a instance in the game there is a green barrier which indicates an instance, this is completely instantanious and does not require loading, so you can go into your instance do what you want walk backwards walk forward enter someone elses instance, do their thing then back up and walk forward back into your instance all without ever hitting one loading screen...ever.

I've never heard of this? They probably play a cutscene as a loading screen substitute. Funny I've heard Blade and Soul have this feature instead.

Cheoregraphed combat: This one might be cosmetic but most games have you just swinging away as if you were swining at air. EQ2 was the biggest offender i've ever seen of this where you have literal gap where you can clearly see that not only are they not synced with each other but not even close but still hitting each other. In this game you can actually clash swords which makes things more beliveable.

The problem with this is that, with its traditional MMO style combat, where most people are actually focusing on the interface for cooldowns and the numberious amount of hotkey bars. They don't actually look at the combat, so maybe, just maybe, this won't change anything, since not many people are actually looking at it, a big flaw in what MMO combat does to games, interface grind.

 

 

How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  SanHor

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 342

9/21/11 11:41:51 AM#115
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by alkarionlog

funny half of things on your list i'm sure I saw in several games over the years, hell even alignment was used on one really old game, and not they are not doing anything diferently unless you say hide/duck in a cover is diferently from hide, or stay behind a shield.

 so yeah, unless you started playing MMos with WoW or/and are too lazy to search, you know this game will bring nothing new to the table.

Meh, this again

I'm sure that literally everything in every new game, MMORPG or singleplayer game, has been done somewhere before, whether it's in some obscure, little known game or in a more rudimentary form.

People are expecting innovations to be completely never-been-done before, revolutionarily new? Won't happen, unless there's some new technology that enables things that weren't possible before. Else you can bet your ass that a so called innovation has been done somewhere before, even if it was in a smaller or more rudimentary, more basic form.

 

In short, as good as all innovation are merely evolution, not revolution, of existing gameplay mechanics. Some take a larger evolutionary step than other changes, but they're still no radically revolutionary new systems.

 

That said, SWTOR introduces a number of things that are far from common and were rarely (if at all) seen before in other MMO's: Companions that don't help in combat as pets do, but that also can fill in an empty 4th slot in a group and contribute in quests and crafting and who'll respond differently based upon the choices you make, Crew Skills system, decisionbased branched questing that impact outcomes and follow up quests, cover system, and so on, see the rest of this thread for the various things.

If someone says that those are all changes or differences that don't do it for them, ok, that I can understand: to someone who for example hates themepark MMO gameplay, all variations or distinctions in the features are moot because it's all garbage to him anyway, so of course he won't be able to discern the difference to in his eyes one piece of garbage and another piece of garbage.

That doesn't mean he'll be right, though: there are quite some differences and distinctions to find by people who can be objective about it even when it's about games or features that they themselves don't like.

You are making a big deal out of nothing spectacular really and it happens when you're hyped about a game. We've all been there before. :)

 

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

9/21/11 11:47:38 AM#116
Originally posted by SanHor

You are making a big deal out of nothing spectacular really and it happens when you're hyped about a game. We've all been there before. :)

Lol. That's not it at all Flawed arguments with faulty logic and lack of (or little) common sense or reason just make me frown and annoy me enough that I tend to reply on it when I see it.

Since this is happening a lot in SWTOR threads on this site, you'll see me post in them a lot more than average.

 

In short on topic: that something doesn't pass someone's personal acceptance threshold for innovation, doesn't mean that the differences and distinctions aren't there. For example, AoC uses tab based combat just as EQ 10 years ago did, but there's a whole different feel and mechanics to AoC's melee combat compared to EQ, even if someone who has completely burnt out and grown jaded with MMO's might say that nothing is different between those 2 MMO's regarding combat mechanics.

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  xKingdomx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/10
Posts: 1550

9/21/11 8:25:47 PM#117
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by SanHor

You are making a big deal out of nothing spectacular really and it happens when you're hyped about a game. We've all been there before. :)

Lol. That's not it at all Flawed arguments with faulty logic and lack of (or little) common sense or reason just make me frown and annoy me enough that I tend to reply on it when I see it.

Since this is happening a lot in SWTOR threads on this site, you'll see me post in them a lot more than average.

 

In short on topic: that something doesn't pass someone's personal acceptance threshold for innovation, doesn't mean that the differences and distinctions aren't there. For example, AoC uses tab based combat just as EQ 10 years ago did, but there's a whole different feel and mechanics to AoC's melee combat compared to EQ, even if someone who has completely burnt out and grown jaded with MMO's might say that nothing is different between those 2 MMO's regarding combat mechanics.

Well I don't think thats flaw logic, sure, most 'innovation' has probably been done elsewhere, but the whole point is that all GOOD innovation are gathering into one game, 

How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4849

9/21/11 8:35:44 PM#118
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

In short on topic: that something doesn't pass someone's personal acceptance threshold for innovation, doesn't mean that the differences and distinctions aren't there. For example, AoC uses tab based combat just as EQ 10 years ago did, but there's a whole different feel and mechanics to AoC's melee combat compared to EQ, even if someone who has completely burnt out and grown jaded with MMO's might say that nothing is different between those 2 MMO's regarding combat mechanics.

Just gotta point out, I think I agree with what your saying, but you may want a better example. Tab targetting isn't innovative (not anymore at least), and it is not what sets a game like AoC away from a game like EQ.

I do think TOR is doing some innovative things;  combining elements that (by themselves) may not be innovative, but as a whole you don't see in other MMOs, is innovative.

  czekoskwigel

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 488

Some flies are too awesome for the wall.

9/21/11 8:38:36 PM#119
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

In short on topic: that something doesn't pass someone's personal acceptance threshold for innovation, doesn't mean that the differences and distinctions aren't there. For example, AoC uses tab based combat just as EQ 10 years ago did, but there's a whole different feel and mechanics to AoC's melee combat compared to EQ, even if someone who has completely burnt out and grown jaded with MMO's might say that nothing is different between those 2 MMO's regarding combat mechanics.

Just gotta point out, I think I agree with what your saying, but you may want a better example. Tab targetting isn't innovative (not anymore at least), and it is not what sets a game like AoC away from a game like EQ.

I do think TOR is doing some innovative things;  combining elements that (by themselves) may not be innovative, but as a whole you don't see in other MMOs, is innovative.

TOR excites me... that in itself is innovative.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4849

9/21/11 8:39:19 PM#120
Originally posted by xKingdomx

Well I don't think thats flaw logic, sure, most 'innovation' has probably been done elsewhere, but the whole point is that all GOOD innovation are gathering into one game, 

That's not what innovation is:

in·no·va·tionNoun/?in??v?SH?n/

1. The action or process of innovating.

2. A new method, idea, product, etc: "technological innovations".

What makes something innovative (see #2) is that it hasn't been done before. The only real distinguishing factor between what's bad and good innovation is whether or not someone( or ones) feel that the change helps move that product / method / idea / etc. forwards or backwards in terms of progressive.

Sorry for the double post.

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