Originally posted by PukeBucket

Originally posted by SanHor

The only thing that TOR is doing differently and is worth mentioning is a complete voice over story. Reading your list just proves that even further.

And more than half of the things you mentioned has already been done in other MMOs. Perhaps you meant what SWTOR does differently to WOW? Don't know..

I've read this thread longer than I needed to. Only to come back to this reply and agree 100%.

What gets me is the wordering for the crowd control resist by the OP. Apparently the phrase "diminishing returns" never entered his RPG vocab.

Look, I'm sure it'll be a fine game.

But telling the story behind why you need to go from hub A to point B and kill X amount of C is the only real differently being done here.

If that's your opinion even after reading my own addition to the OP's post, well, to each their own I guess. Luckily there are enough MMO's around, also for people who can't enjoy traditional themepark gameplay anymore, but if differences aren't revolutionary or appealing to you enough to be acknowledged doesn't mean that those differences and distinctions aren't there. It just means that they don't appeal to you to mean something for you.

Originally posted by Corehaven

And it would be really helpful to the point if when Bioware was asked if the game was like WoW or played like WoW they might say something like:

 

" The game will be comparison worthy.  But no, we've made our own game.  We're proud of it, and we've put a plethora of unique mechanics into Swtor.  World of Warcraft is a fine game, but we've made something unique, and we're excited for fans to experience it.  " 

Actually, iirc they have been saying stuff like that in sortlike words, various times. I can't be bothered to do some extensive searching for those particular quotes though. Just like with other quotes and comments and reviews, it's often a specific few that got picked where as the rest get buried or ignored.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by PukeBucket

Originally posted by SanHor

The only thing that TOR is doing differently and is worth mentioning is a complete voice over story. Reading your list just proves that even further.

And more than half of the things you mentioned has already been done in other MMOs. Perhaps you meant what SWTOR does differently to WOW? Don't know..

I've read this thread longer than I needed to. Only to come back to this reply and agree 100%.

What gets me is the wordering for the crowd control resist by the OP. Apparently the phrase "diminishing returns" never entered his RPG vocab.

Look, I'm sure it'll be a fine game.

But telling the story behind why you need to go from hub A to point B and kill X amount of C is the only real differently being done here.

If that's your opinion even after reading my own addition to the OP's post, well, to each their own I guess. Luckily there are enough MMO's around, also for people who can't enjoy traditional themepark gameplay anymore, but if differences aren't revolutionary or appealing to you enough to be acknowledged doesn't mean that those differences and distinctions aren't there. It just means that they don't appeal to you to mean something for you.

 

Originally posted by Corehaven

And it would be really helpful to the point if when Bioware was asked if the game was like WoW or played like WoW they might say something like:

 

" The game will be comparison worthy.  But no, we've made our own game.  We're proud of it, and we've put a plethora of unique mechanics into Swtor.  World of Warcraft is a fine game, but we've made something unique, and we're excited for fans to experience it.  " 

Actually, iirc they have been saying stuff like that in sortlike words, various times. I can't be bothered to do some extensive searching for those particular quotes though. Just like with other quotes and comments and reviews, it's often a specific few that got picked where as the rest get buried or ignored.

I saw your post. It's colorful use of language, but it doesn't make things "different". That's the language used by the OP and generally discussed. Expanded, sure why not? If you're going to follow the text book prime example that's the least you can do via example. Different? Not at all.

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

Originally posted by eluldor

Originally posted by Chilliesauce

TOR took the FFXI companion feature and improved on it and added more features to it...Your likes or dislikes are subjective but you can not deny the new features and improvements made by SWTOR to an already existing pet system. 

Didn't they just take their companion feature from their already established KOTOR series and just expand it to fit the MMO experience? Haven't heard that TOR took FFXI's companion feature (which I know nothing of) into question before, and Bioware has done quite well in their companions for over 10 years now.

I am just trying to indulge him. Even if we say TOR took pet system from FFXI, (even though their companion system is extension of KOTOR), one can not deny the improvements and new features added by Bioware. But since there is always a game or MMO which has done it before, someone is bound to barge in with teeth grinding and tell you 'nothing special it has been done before'.

Bioware games have had companions for years. Even as far back as Baldur's gate, one of Bioware's strengths was in the quality of the writing for the companions (ala "Boo go for the eyes"). Suggesting that Bioware took companions from another game is pretty silly. 

Originally posted by PukeBucket

I saw your post. It's colorful use of language, but it doesn't make things "different". That's the language used by the OP and generally discussed. Expanded, sure why not? If you're going to follow the text book prime example that's the least you can do via example. Different? Not at all.

Shrug. Whatever, mate. Like I said, if it's wildly revolutonary innovations is what it takes for you to acknowledge differences, then go ahead and move on to games that tickle that sense. To someone who has grown sick or bored of themepark gameplay and who craves for something completely different, every themepark game starts to look the same, kind of hard to argue with that.

Finally a good thread with minimal flaming and trolling.

Originally posted by RefMinor

The most innovative thing about SW:TOR is the fact that Bioware have taken an MMORPG and turned it into a single player game, albeit allowing a few other RL people to join in each set piece.

This is so true on so many levels.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by PukeBucket

I saw your post. It's colorful use of language, but it doesn't make things "different". That's the language used by the OP and generally discussed. Expanded, sure why not? If you're going to follow the text book prime example that's the least you can do via example. Different? Not at all.

Shrug. Whatever, mate. Like I said, if it's wildly revolutonary innovations is what it takes for you to acknowledge differences, then go ahead and move on to games that tickle that sense. To someone who has grown sick or bored of themepark gameplay and who craves for something completely different, every themepark game starts to look the same, kind of hard to argue with that.

Well shrug or whatever all you want. 

Do you really think TOR is doing anything different? There's even been a Star Wars MMORPG before. That's the macro level of it all. On the micro everything you've listed with the yellow text and all of that can be found even in many Korean F2P games.

This game is for Star Wars fans. It's not even trying to be innovative on the smallest level. Over all a sound business plan on paper, but I don't think it's enough for even those alright with themepark standards.

Originally posted by PukeBucket

Well shrug or whatever all you want. 

Do you really think TOR is doing anything different? There's even been a Star Wars MMORPG before. That's the macro level of it all. On the micro everything you've listed with the yellow text and all of that can be found even in many Korean F2P games.

This game is for Star Wars fans. It's not even trying to be innovative on the smallest level. Over all a sound business plan on paper, but I don't think it's enough for even those alright with themepark standards.

Look, mate, it's obvious that you have some prejudice against  features or the gameplay that comes with it when it comes to  themepark MMO's.
 And that you have become unable to either enjoy MMO's or to recognise distinctions if it's not something completely new compared to other  themepark MMO's. That's fine.

However, if all themepark MMO's and their features are one grey mass of sameness to you, doesn't make it so for other people who aren't blinded by their aversion or jadedness with  themepark related features.

SWTOR has its own differences and improvements that you might be unable to recognise or acknowledge: so be it. If that's the case for you, then get over it and move on to MMO's that aren't themepark MMO's since you're apparently unable to appreciate them anymore for what they offer. However, this is not the case for other people who can still enjoy themepark MMO gameplay, including what SWTOR will bring with its own distinctions. Again, the fact that SWTOR's distinctions in gameplay doesn't float your boat doesn't mean that they aren't differences and distinctions from other (themepark) MMO's, or that they're not features that hadn't been seen in that form in themepark MMO's.

I like to compare it with music, some people have grown a complete disgust of pop music or R&B, and to them all music, trends and songs in it sound drab and the same, without a shred of innovation. However, to those who can enjoy those music styles can recognise variations and trends and songs that have their own unique distinctions.

As for true innovations, I've once made a thread where the conclusion was that as good as everything including in the upcoming MMO's has been done one way or the other in former MMO's, even if it was in a more rudimentary form. But that's another discussion.

SWTOR is generic themepark MMO with generic themepark features....and voiceovers.

Originally posted by mikahr

SWTOR is generic themepark MMO with generic themepark features....and voiceovers.

...well at least it has features...sandbox game players have to make their own! :p

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by mikahr

SWTOR is generic themepark MMO with generic themepark features....and voiceovers.

...well at least it has features...sandbox game players have to make their own! :p

Yup, but at least it doesnt feel like i have been playing it for 10 years already.

Im waiting for good sand-park/ theme box game, SWTOR has proven to be more of the same with some minor differences (that (oh the irony) imapct solo aspect of the game the most). *just a note, im very happy for this, but unfortunately it makes only this part of game worth playing, and its debatable is it worth paying a monthly sub for solo game*

So all this talk of different is like some desperate search for something to hang on to to justify yourself playing same game you have been playing for years that got a coat of new paint.

Originally posted by mikahr

Yup, but at least it doesnt feel like i have been playing it for 10 years already.

Im waiting for good sand-park/ theme box game, SWTOR has proven to be more of the same with some minor differences (that (oh the irony) imapct solo aspect of the game the most). *just a note, im very happy for this, but unfortunately it makes only this part of game worth playing, and its debatable is it worth paying a monthly sub for solo game*

So all this talk of different is like some desperate search for something to hang on to to justify yourself playing same game you have been playing for years that got a coat of new paint.

Bullshit. It's that themepark haters/critics have the tendency to be completely blind towards any differences from one themepark to the other, presumably because they dislike themepark MMO's.

The OP was showing that each game has its differences next to its similarities with other games, something that everyone who claims to be reasonable and have common sense should have no problem acknowledging. But this is something that a lot of themepark opponents will never acknowledge, so I'd suggest to those people that cannot enjoy traditional  themepark MMO's anyway to just move on and wait for their sandbox or hybrid sandbox or MMOFPS to arrive, since apparently this isn't their genre anyway, themepark MMO's

As for whether it's debatable to pay a monthly sub, another flawed interpretation: people have been playing themepark MMO's like WoW and LotrO for years subbed, and SWTOR is as much a themepark MMO in any sense as those, if not more (LotrO has no world pvp or battlegrounds).

And fanbois tend to portray minor cosmetics as some earth shattering difference.

And ive been playing themeparks for...hmm...8 years now, thank you very much. So, yah.

Originally posted by mikahr

And fanbois tend to portray minor cosmetics as some earth shattering difference.

And ive been playing themeparks for...hmm...8 years now, thank you very much. So, yah.

If you consider Companions that can fill up a 4th team spot in groups when required or a Crew Skills system replacing a regular crafting/harvesting system or territory control based world PvP with bases to conquer and destroy something minor, next to decisionbased branched VO questing, then there's not much left to say to you. I question your criteria for 'different' though, sounds to me like your themepark experiences haven't been that extensive or detailed if you fail to spot the differences from one (themepark) MMO to the next.

If you've grown bored of themepark MMO's to the level that they're not different enough anymore, then I think you should maybe look towards MMOFPS or such. Or maybe a game like Xsyon is something for you, that might be the kind of different enough that you're looking for.

Originally posted by whilan
Lets move on to crafting

Timer

This is a differnet way to go about crafting, it's been done before but not often enough to feel stale or done to death so it sort of fits.  Crafting takes time (as i outlined above) to do. If you gather the mats and the blueprints. When you hit craft you have a timer until the item is complete. THe player doesn't really have any control over the item but it's a middle road between player control and just hitting the craft button and getting the item. Think Fallen earth here.

God I hope not. Fallen Earths crafting was a simplistic rehash of wow with a little timer added onto it (Oh wooo fun!) *sarcasm.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by mikahr

Yup, but at least it doesnt feel like i have been playing it for 10 years already.

Im waiting for good sand-park/ theme box game, SWTOR has proven to be more of the same with some minor differences (that (oh the irony) imapct solo aspect of the game the most). *just a note, im very happy for this, but unfortunately it makes only this part of game worth playing, and its debatable is it worth paying a monthly sub for solo game*

So all this talk of different is like some desperate search for something to hang on to to justify yourself playing same game you have been playing for years that got a coat of new paint.

The OP was showing that each game has its differences next to its similarities with other games, something that everyone who claims to be reasonable and have common sense should have no problem acknowledging.

Those differances are pretty small, and are usually nothing new, or ground breaking. Most themeparks follow the same Formula, and have been copying off of each other for along time. I don't dislike or hate them because I feel all games copy off of each other. However there also havin't been anything new or groundbreaking in along time, and I think developers need to stop thinking that copying off of wow/warhammer/rift is the only way for people to play a MMO. (Gods and Heroes: Rome Rising comes to mind, because even the lead developer said they believed that the old wow formula was going to bring in the big bucks, and get people playing? How misinformed he was ^_^) I think this new generation of developers for MMO's are disconnected from the playerbase, and are all lacking in the "creativity department" when it comes to comming up with their own creativity instead of copying something that someone else made 7, or 8 years ago.. Thats why I think it's refreshing when I see GW2 and Starwars the Old Republic, because I'm hoping those games will at least be a bit differn't then the same old run of the mill we have been playing for almost a decade. I mean even as someone like you who is a big fan of Themeparks, you got to admit. They really have over-done the whole WoW forumula. Don't you think?

Originally posted by trash656

I mean even as someone like you who is a big fan of Themeparks, you got to admit. They really have over-done the whole WoW forumula. Don't you think?

Of course the WoW instigated, game-instead-of-world focus as design concept has been followed far too often, I've stated this many times and praised the diversity and variety in the upcoming MMO's. In fact, I've as often stated that in my opinion a themepark-sandbox hybrid approach is the healthiest design model for MMO's

That doesn't mean though that I've suddenly lost the ability to grasp the differences and improvements/changes from one MMORPG to another, whether it's a themepark MMO or sandbox or otherwise.

Some people who've grown an allergy or aversion towards themepark MMO's or who've become jaded and burnt out by over exposure to (certain) MMO gameplay seemed to have lost the ability to acknowledge or recognise differences in their craving for something revolutionarily different from what they've grown to despise. I think that even if something isn't your type of game, you can still be able to discern the goods, the bads and the distinctions of each MMO. It only requires people to be objective and have an open mind, nothing more.

Damn, I was looking forward to this game, but from everything I see, it's just a fancy science fiction version of your typical theme park mmo.  It's just not registering on the interest meter.  I wish some new sandbox mmo's would come down the pike already.

The only "new" thing one will notice are the VO when you get your quests. And after about 50 quests it starts to get pretty enoying to look at a cutscene before accepting a quest wich btw, wants you to go kill X amount of various mobs.

This MMO just falls short in so many ways.

So funny to see people who have never played a game bash it like they actually know anything about it.

This damn NDA is SO frustrating. I guess I will just have to wait until release and then LAUGH at all the people who will be eating their words.