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General Discussion  » Over 6 yo - Still the best MMORPG in the World

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142 posts found
  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1385

9/12/11 7:25:38 AM#121
Originally posted by Short-Straw

To quote my avatar, "Dog pile on the rabbit!".  Let's see how Blizz is doing in a few years, they had a great cash run but all things come to an end.

This is what i'm thinking aswell, once the tower starts to fall, they can't pile it up again. I think their "project titan" will attract alot of attention in the beginning, but once the gamers realize it has nothing new to offer, it'll go down in flames like other "new and innovative" mmorpg's launched after 2004

 

and to clarify, WoW was nothing new and innovative, it copied all of its mechanic from MMO's before it, Everquest, Asherons Call etc. They just made all the elements work and the level of polish was their ace in the sleeve, even tho there are plenty of MMO's launched since WITH topnotch level of polish and atleast the amount features wow had after 2 years in the market.

What seems to be the "fault" why projects being launched nowadays don't quite cut it, is the fact that people think they should get the same amount of content in a NEW game (developed maybe 3-5 years, as they get with WoW (in its current form) which has over 10 years of developement and 3 expansion under it's belly, people don't give any chances to games launching these days and they've not the patience to wait for expansions and wait for them to grow.

WoW at launch had 0 raid instances (onyxia came first and propably like 3 months after launch Molten Core opened.) So if you compare that to MMO's launching these days, with minimum of 2 raids ONTOP of everthing else, they've far more content in them, than what WoW had at launch, yet people expect to get atleast the amount of content wow has NOW, i find it silly and utterly ignorant.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19395

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

9/12/11 7:35:16 AM#122
Originally posted by mchlmacdonal
Originally posted by Wizardry

Most popular yes,however Wow is a direct rip off/copycat of Everquest so that is being two faced to call out other developers yet the game he is bragging about is perhaps the worst copy cat there is.

The game that TRULY did not copy and thoguht for themselves was FFXI,they broke many industry standards and created a few ideas that to this day have not been done,the languiage translator for one.

Blizzard introduced a few ideas also,the authenticator is a security thing ,nothing to do with actual game developement.they also brought in cross server grouping ,this is a good idea for sure,but does have drawbacks to community on your own server.

IMO Both Eq and Wow do several things that are good [not great] but there is also MANY ideas which make no sense and to outright copy those ,shows Blizzard to not think at all.One example that really miffs me is questing,EQ did this by giving XP for questing,the most ridiculous idea i ever heard of.I played RPGs from way back and you don't get xp for questing lol.

Oh you delivered my Stein to that npc?Oh great here you go you look more experienced now,here is some xp ..lmao...just dumb.

I made this point because ,YES there are some ideas worth copying from other games,but things liek this ar jsu tdumb to copy,FFXI did NOT need to do this and imo it is the maybe the greatest mmorpg there ever was [not anymore].This is why copying is so bad,even my beloved FFXI has begun to copy cat the easier hand fed game play and totally ruined the best game ever,i do not play it anymore.

Other ideas not worth copying,markers over npcs heads,just lame [not realistic]and treating gamers like babies.Markers on maps to show you exactly where to go,again hand fed babies,why even bother to call it gaming?You don't need to spend money or waste your time to just have it handed to you,why not let your friend do it all and just take over his game when everything is done for you?FFXI did not need to do ANY of these lame copy cat ideas,so Blizzard shoud lkhave taken the OP's advice and learn to think for themselves before blatantly copying Everquest.

i never played everquest, i was a DAoC guy before wow.  but obviously wow wasn't the "worst" of anything.

it took the ideas from a previously successful game, put their own ideas in the mix, gave it a facelift, and created the most popular online game ever played.

and i never played FFXI either, but i had quite a few friends play it regularly and it did look pretty cool.  but that was a niche playerbase, and while it was successful to that playerbase, it was overshadowed by wow.  nobody has been able to make an mmo that grabs the interest of more people than wow.

But as many have pointed out, best is subjective and this factor you raise is not really a measure of best, just more of a popularity factor.

For the players of FFXI, that game's mechanics were "best" and you'll not convince it's fan's otherwise, no matter how many subs WOW has.

Now, it might be fairer to compare large MMO's based on their features they contain, including PVP, crafting, and complexity of crafting, housing, questing, leveling trees, social interaction etc and based on those criteria, WOW might not come out on top.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  VultureSkull

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/07
Posts: 1803

9/12/11 7:35:21 AM#123

Do not allow your dislike for WoW blind you to the simple fact that Blizz is the best in this MMO business. That is beyond dispute, if you do dispute and argue about it then look at the figures(if you still argue then you are arguing with your own self). Give credit where it is due, WoW is a cracking MMO, so good that it attracted masses of new players to the genre.

And also remember that Blizz did not just make WoW. They made Diablo series which was hugely successful and the Star Craft series. They are of course about to release DB3 which we all know will be equally successful and 99% of people here moaning about Bliz will be buying it lol.

Then there is Titan or whatever there new MMO is called, which again we all know will be a success. So, this shows that WoW was not a fluke, Blizzard know how to make games and they are the best in the MMOs world.

 

Who cares who copied what from whom? There was one guy who made a car, all the rest are copies, same with planes, houses, burgers, everything really, even our own names are copies of someone else ffs.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5423

9/12/11 7:36:25 AM#124
Originally posted by mchlmacdonal
Originally posted by Wizardry

Most popular yes,however Wow is a direct rip off/copycat of Everquest so that is being two faced to call out other developers yet the game he is bragging about is perhaps the worst copy cat there is.

The game that TRULY did not copy and thoguht for themselves was FFXI,they broke many industry standards and created a few ideas that to this day have not been done,the languiage translator for one.

Blizzard introduced a few ideas also,the authenticator is a security thing ,nothing to do with actual game developement.they also brought in cross server grouping ,this is a good idea for sure,but does have drawbacks to community on your own server.

IMO Both Eq and Wow do several things that are good [not great] but there is also MANY ideas which make no sense and to outright copy those ,shows Blizzard to not think at all.One example that really miffs me is questing,EQ did this by giving XP for questing,the most ridiculous idea i ever heard of.I played RPGs from way back and you don't get xp for questing lol.

Oh you delivered my Stein to that npc?Oh great here you go you look more experienced now,here is some xp ..lmao...just dumb.

I made this point because ,YES there are some ideas worth copying from other games,but things liek this ar jsu tdumb to copy,FFXI did NOT need to do this and imo it is the maybe the greatest mmorpg there ever was [not anymore].This is why copying is so bad,even my beloved FFXI has begun to copy cat the easier hand fed game play and totally ruined the best game ever,i do not play it anymore.

Other ideas not worth copying,markers over npcs heads,just lame [not realistic]and treating gamers like babies.Markers on maps to show you exactly where to go,again hand fed babies,why even bother to call it gaming?You don't need to spend money or waste your time to just have it handed to you,why not let your friend do it all and just take over his game when everything is done for you?FFXI did not need to do ANY of these lame copy cat ideas,so Blizzard shoud lkhave taken the OP's advice and learn to think for themselves before blatantly copying Everquest.

i never played everquest, i was a DAoC guy before wow.  but obviously wow wasn't the "worst" of anything.

it took the ideas from a previously successful game, put their own ideas in the mix, gave it a facelift, and created the most popular online game ever played.

and i never played FFXI either, but i had quite a few friends play it regularly and it did look pretty cool.  but that was a niche playerbase, and while it was successful to that playerbase, it was overshadowed by wow.  nobody has been able to make an mmo that grabs the interest of more people than wow.

definitely, i played Everquest, both versions, Everquest was pretty much my first real MMO, but.. saying that WoW is a direct copy of it, ignores the fact that WoW actually took a few, and only a few, factors that worked in EQ and actually improved on it.. a lot.. not to mention they also added way more functionality and content.. improved the interface etc, WoW is popular because, its a lot of fun, for a wider range of player types than you atypically get from games like EQ, or DAoC, etc..  though i do think that PvP wise.. DAoC definitely had the advantage, the RvRvR thing is hard to beat, WoW's battlegrounds arent a patch on DAoC's.. which GW2 appears to be trying to copy, how successful they will be remains to be seen, but.. in terms of PvP at least, its a step in the right direction..  but theres a reason why games are referred to as WoW clones, rather than EQ clones... its because the changes Blizzard made were innovative, rather than 'carbon copies' so that the result was far greater than the original. Though some might say that EQ had been on a slippery slope even since the introduction of the luclin expansion, possibly even before that..

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

9/12/11 7:37:57 AM#125
Originally posted by Wizardry

Most popular yes,however Wow is a direct rip off/copycat of Everquest so that is being two faced to call out other developers yet the game he is bragging about is perhaps the worst copy cat there is.

Other ideas not worth copying,markers over npcs heads,just lame [not realistic]and treating gamers like babies.Markers on maps to show you exactly where to go,again hand fed babies,why even bother to call it gaming?You don't need to spend money or waste your time to just have it handed to you,why not let your friend do it all and just take over his game when everything is done for you?FFXI did not need to do ANY of these lame copy cat ideas,so Blizzard shoud lkhave taken the OP's advice and learn to think for themselves before blatantly copying Everquest.

WoW did copy a lot of features, but to say it was a complete copy cat of EQ is a denial of reality.

What was definitely innovative and something that MMO's before didn't have was something that you won't find in the cold, bland listing of features, and that is Blizzard's philosophy towards MMO design and gameplay. Something that made WoW the huge success that it became. Their focus on game instead of world building was what they did differently, something that no MMO including EQ before had. Polish, accessibility, smooth controls and removing anything that could be considered detrimental to a fun gameplay experience.  And that meant annoyances like a steep learning curve, harsh death penalties, multitude of bugs, overtly long travel times, and so on.

 

People might hate them and WoW for following and popularising that particular philosophy in MMO gameplay design, but there's no denying that Blizzard was the first to follow that type of MMO design throughout the whole game and MMO features encompassed.

So no, it's true that WoW was inspired by EQ and other MMO's and all the features that came with it, but they were both totally different MMO's with a completely different design philosophy that permeated these 2 games, which was obvious when you heard the devs of both games talk about their core values for their MMO design.

 

Originally posted by Phry
Though some might say that EQ had been on a slippery slope even since the introduction of the luclin expansion, possibly even before that..

Definitely not before that: Ruins of Kunark and Scars of Velious was the peak and highlight in EQ's long life, and true to the original game and vision. After that, things started to change.

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  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1385

9/12/11 7:40:35 AM#126

I give blizzard the credit for setting a new standard for MMO polish, hopefully we'll see less and less AO/AoC launches these days :)

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6907

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

9/12/11 8:30:36 AM#127
Originally posted by Fusion

I give blizzard the credit for setting a new standard for MMO polish, hopefully we'll see less and less AO/AoC launches these days :)

FFXI was,still is and will always be  the most polished game ever and it was delivered on multi platform.I played the game for 8 years,NOT one single problem ever.Yes RMT problems YES other player problems but the game itself,most polished ever.Wow nor any other game comes even close.Heck even the recent Cata expansion was just horrible TONS of glitches in both game play and maps/graphics and i saw several broken quests.I can use the term best ever for polish,because since i never had one single problem,no game can ever top that ..ever!.

I will also add that if you try to bring UI into it,i absolutely had no problem what so ever in FFXI UI nor macros either,i could do more with them than anything Wow offers.When i chat in FFXI ,i just start typing no need to hit any other button.Everything i need is right on my keypad area,no finger fumbling or searching for keys.

Also since most Wow players are using outside apps,it shows Wow is not so polished for even UI.I never used nor needed any outisde apps for FFXI,i played the game easily.

Yes WoW is better over all polish than almost every game out there,i will give it that,but to say it set new standards is a farcry from the truth.Also FFX Idoes NOT have well it didn't have any test servers to test things before releasing them,Wow DOES have test servers yet delivers quite a few problems.so imo not very polished at all,Cata was proof of that.Blizzard even shut dow nthe forums because a ton of negative feedback was being posted on Cata release bugs graphic glitches.

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  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3581

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

9/12/11 8:41:11 AM#128
Originally posted by jessie360

You're forgetting one thing:

 

most popular =/= best

 

/thread

 

Sorry, but from a business stand point (which is ALL investors care about...) most popular DOES equal best.  Just about any game company in the world, would give just about anything to have the massive, sustained player base that Blizzard has developed over the last almost seven years in WoW.  Hell, most of them would be EXTREMELY happy with 1/3 of WoW's player base.  For all of its faults (which are legion...) WoW is still a good game up to level cap. Then its mostly raiding and/or PvP. 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10942

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

9/12/11 8:45:23 AM#129


Originally posted by Wraithone


Originally posted by jessie360
You're forgetting one thing:
 
most popular =/= best
 
/thread


 
Sorry, but from a business stand point (which is ALL investors care about...) most popular DOES equal best.  Just about any game company in the world, would give just about anything to have the massive, sustained player base that Blizzard has developed over the last almost seven years in WoW.  Hell, most of them would be EXTREMELY happy with 1/3 of WoW's player base.  For all of its faults (which are legion...) WoW is still a good game up to level cap. Then its mostly raiding and/or PvP. 



WoW is the best it is at what it does. If you're a player that doesn't like what WoW does, then it doesn't matter how good WoW is at what it does, you're not going to want to play it.

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  User Deleted
9/12/11 10:14:57 AM#130
Originally posted by Fusion

I give blizzard the credit for setting a new standard for MMO polish, hopefully we'll see less and less AO/AoC launches these days :)

What?

 

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  Gemma

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/05
Posts: 339

9/30/11 6:03:13 PM#131
Originally posted by Benthon

Change to "Most popular".

As for the rest... we've seen it already.

How is it not the best out right now?

  User Deleted
9/30/11 6:08:15 PM#132
Originally posted by Gemma
Originally posted by Benthon

Change to "Most popular".

As for the rest... we've seen it already.

How is it not the best out right now?

If most popular = best then it is, I do not view most popular as best like many do for numerous reasons why.

 

  kadepsyson

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9/30/11 6:08:43 PM#133
Originally posted by Gemma
Originally posted by Benthon

Change to "Most popular".

As for the rest... we've seen it already.

How is it not the best out right now?

Ultima Online, older, and better than WoW.

Having many people subscribe to a game doesn't really mean it's better than another game, just more popular.

 

Was Nazi Germany better than smaller countries because of more people following Hitler?  Easiest analogy, if a bit dramatic.

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  Reizla

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 3050

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

9/30/11 6:10:04 PM#134

WoW sucks balls on all fronts. I just gave it an other try, and 1 week later I'M SO DAMN BORED!

They say 11M players can't be wrong, but I think they can... As said before. Biggest playerbase doesn't mean it's the best thing to get. Just a simple comparisation with Windows. It took them 20+ years to get where they are now with their technology, and yes, they have the most PC users hooked to their crappy OS, but it doesn't say that Windows is the best OS out there? There are (and always have been) better alternatives. Only reason we're all hooked up with Windows is MARKETING.

Same goes for WoW. If any other MMORPG had the marketing budget Blizzard has for their game, I wonder if WoW would have this massive playerbase as it has now. I even dare to bet that WoW would go the way AoC and LotRo are now - F2P...

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  Gemma

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Joined: 3/16/05
Posts: 339

9/30/11 6:12:58 PM#135

Well, just because it's not fun to someone doesn't disqualify it from being a good game. The level of polish, amount of content, addictive timesinks, and sheer popularity make this game easily the best one on the market.

  kadepsyson

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The doctors say his chances are 50/50...but there's only a 10% chance of that.

9/30/11 6:15:30 PM#136

Polish, fun timesinks, and lots of content are good reasons for a game to be considered better than one with less in those areas.  Popularity is just that, how many people like/play it.

 

Edit:  Although, an extreme lack of popularity that leads to almost no playerbase can be a detriment to a games overall quality, but that usually results from things lacking in other areas.

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  RefMinor

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Joined: 7/16/11
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Hipster

9/30/11 6:18:00 PM#137
McDonalds is the best restaurant in the whole world
  Gemma

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/05
Posts: 339

9/30/11 6:18:29 PM#138
Originally posted by kadepsyson

Polish, fun timesinks, and lots of content are good reasons for a game to be considered better than one with less in those areas.  Popularity is just that, how many people like/play it.

 

Edit:  Although, an extreme lack of popularity that leads to almost no playerbase can be a detriment to a games overall quality, but that usually results from things lacking in other areas.

 

Agreed, but would a bad game be popular? Not just popular, but this popular?

  ThomasN7

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9/30/11 6:23:07 PM#139

Most popular would be describe it I think. No doubt, lots of success but people move on eventually.

  fivoroth

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Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2927

10/01/11 9:09:44 AM#140

It's definitely the most popular MMO. However, is it the best MMO? This is very subjective. Most people on these boards will tell you that it is the worst MMO but in my opinion WoW IS the best MMO. I hate hearing all that crap about oldschool MMOs and I am sick of those people but they are entitled to their own opinion :) I played UO and EQ back in the day and they were nothing special...

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