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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: The 15 Year Plan

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96 posts found
  bleed0range

Novice Member

Joined: 9/15/09
Posts: 110

7/30/11 1:43:48 PM#41
Originally posted by BigAndShiny

If SW:TOR's graphics were great for today and cartoony, then it could look ok in 15 years maybe.  

But it's average at best today, in 15 years it will look terrible.

Graphics really don't matter.  The gameplay is what is important.  No matter how good any game looks now, it will look outdated in time.  It's just the way it goes.  SWTOR may look "less" obviously dated because of it's style.  I agree it looks somewhat dated now too, but MMOs don't run like console games... they are more prone to lag with the higher end graphics.

 

But you all knew this already.  If it lasts 15 years it won't be because of graphics.

  edgecrusher213

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/03
Posts: 16

7/30/11 1:56:47 PM#42

Originally posted by vesavius



Originally posted by Yalexy


 





Originally posted by vesavius

lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you imagine how they would appear in 15 years :P






 


Graphics are not the main-reason for people to play games. Look at the still most succesful MMO that's WoW.


Gonna snip all that because it was pretty irrelevant to what I said.


And nothing you said actually contradicted the fact that the character models were 'basic', in fact you just really made numerous rationalisations for them rather then arguing a counter point.


It appears we agree.


So again, current graphics are good enough


yes, they are 'good enough' for today I guess. They are sub par imo to other older games (like CO as an example), but they are functional and do the job. No more no less.


I expected more then that though myself.




 


Champions Online for good character models?  Uh, okay...


The customization is good, yes.  But the models themselves are not all THAT great.  They look good for what Cryptic is going for, but SWTOR's character models look good for what Bioware is going for as well.  Can't have it both ways.


  User Deleted
7/30/11 2:08:34 PM#43
Originally posted by edgecrusher213

Originally posted by vesavius



Originally posted by Yalexy


 





Originally posted by vesavius

lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you imagine how they would appear in 15 years :P





 


Graphics are not the main-reason for people to play games. Look at the still most succesful MMO that's WoW.


Gonna snip all that because it was pretty irrelevant to what I said.


And nothing you said actually contradicted the fact that the character models were 'basic', in fact you just really made numerous rationalisations for them rather then arguing a counter point.


It appears we agree.


So again, current graphics are good enough


yes, they are 'good enough' for today I guess. They are sub par imo to other older games (like CO as an example), but they are functional and do the job. No more no less.


I expected more then that though myself.



 

Champions Online for good character models?  Uh, okay...


The customization is good, yes.  But the models themselves are not all THAT great.  They look good for what Cryptic is going for, but SWTOR's character models look good for what Bioware is going for as well.  Can't have it both ways.

yeah i agree i been playing games since nintendo and atari came out and i learned alot of things careless about grachics and enjoy the game who cares what generation we in. not every one could afford super computer to play gamesi dont think you understand that. as for tor who knows it could be around for along time it has alot of fans and everquest 2 is holding strong so year bioware has the chance. i am not fanboi just saying give it a shot it might have chance who knows if you dont like the game maybe its not for you dont play it.

  Draemos

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/20/10
Posts: 1459

7/30/11 2:11:20 PM#44
Originally posted by DarkPony

I think they would do well to add more pillars to their foundation instead of adding more of the same over the years. Instead of taking Blizzard as an example, who are just adding more of the same kind of content and throw in a new race or class now and then, they will hopefully take CCP's course of action by expanding in a much broader sense.

In SWTOR's case I'd love to see a vast, space-content expansion with stuff like free roaming, mining, asteroid outposts, space exploration, spaceship pvp, a wide choice of player ships and the option to fly and fight in a ship with a group of people (dedicated gunners, pilot, navigation officer, etc). That would really add something else to all the planetary based bipedal gameplay and has the possibility to link planetary destinations in a much more immersive, exploratory kind of way compared to cutscenes.

Sounds like a Star Trek game.

  Xiara

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 20

7/30/11 2:33:29 PM#45
It is hilarious to still hear people say swtor is going to fail and not be around long. I guess we arent looking at the same game and viewing the same signs. All signs point to one of the single biggest mmo releases ever. The game looks solid...so what if it plays familiar. Galaxies was supposed to be star wars everquest...and instead we got abilities that killed us just for using them.

~Xiara D'Aarmon

  Palebane

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/04
Posts: 3247

7/30/11 2:39:55 PM#46
Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by WhySoShort

I don't see SW:TOR being around even ten years from now, just because it isn't innovative enough. It will die at the same time that WoW and EQ2 die, and that age of online gaming passes. 



 

 The type of mmo gaming your talking about will most likly survive for at least ten years simply because it works and is popular . What you have to remember is that its got to have mass appeal and what your more likely to see rather than games that break the mold is developers playing it safe and just building on what they know works .The thing that may break the mold is a console that is designed with mmos and 3d gaming in mind but such a console is proberbly at least 5 -10 years off . Maybe cloud or streamed online gaming will break the mold because it would allow developers to push the graphics on mmos because it would allow high end graphics to be played on low end PCs  . Again this is most likly at least 5-10 years away . You also have to remember Ultima Online is still alive and kicking and thats over a decade now . If StarWars TOR is the decent game we all hope it is I don't think a 15 life expectancy is out of the question . 7 years ago people were saying WoW would'nt last for exactly the same reasons you've quoted here .You are right the curent era of mmos will reach an end at some point but I think your being slightly over optermistic with the time frame as its the technology that will have to improve before the the next era begins . That may take 10 years or more .

I don't know. I bet Valve has had something up their sleeve for years now. I think we are going to see some really big changes in the next 4-5 years assuming 2012 isn't the end of the world. If developers like Bioware can rise to the occasion, then more power to them, as long as their "plan" is flexible.

Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.

  Valentina

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/06
Posts: 1659

7/30/11 2:44:05 PM#47

The age of online gaming will never die, in fact the age of not-online gaming will die before that ever happens. If any development studio can pull off such an undertaking right now it's BioWare. There's so much content in this game they've never even mentioned and there are some VERY interesting systems in place that I don't think most players will hear about until they're in the actual game at launch. It's brilliant.


  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

7/30/11 3:39:30 PM#48

I'm all for it. As long as they can add to the game in an interesting and compelling way then it should be fine. It is sad, though, when you play a game like warcraft and you have Outland and Wrath zones almost deserted. I  would hope any additional content they end up adding won't destroy what they've alredy created.


  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13175

7/30/11 3:49:05 PM#49

In 1999, did people think that there would still be some playing Duke Nukem Forever in 2011?

Five years of content plus a decade worth of delays to spread it out can easily get you to 15 years.  And five years of content is hardly inconceivable.

Really, though, they'll keep working on it as long as enough people still play it to provide a good return on investment.  Do you really expect Blizzard to announce anytime soon that no more new WoW content is coming?

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

7/30/11 4:24:21 PM#50
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by vesavius
Originally posted by Latronus
Originally posted by vesavius

lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you ima:gine how they would appear in 15 years :P

 This same ignorant arguement again?  Really? 

/snipped the rest due to it all seeming a bit... excitable

 

well.. no...

I made no 'argument' at all did I?

I just said the models look crude and outdated, and they do, to me. thats my opinion on them.

and they WOULD look awful in 15 years.

I have no idea why your getting so het up :/

Well the point is that graphics are not a big deal when it comes to MMO's.

Actually, they are for me, and they are for alot of others. The art style is hugely important... it has to be one I enjoy and connect to.

It dosent have to be photo realistic, but yes...  a game does have to be appealing and 'cool' to look at.

Look, the truth is good lookin GFX ARE important for MMOs for them to be a success. You would have to very 'insulated' to think they are not.

look at the GFX for CO for instance (leaving your probable hate for the game at the door). Thats cartoon GFX done right. Despite it's many other flaws, the game looks lovely and has personality and detail coming out of it's behind. The models in that game make SWtoR's look amateur (though people will flame this because they hate Cryptic and love Bioware, so thats their default setting).

Content and story will always win out.  So basically your comment is meaningless and they were just pointing that out.  

well, thanks, but actually your comment is just as meaningless... as is their's, because story dosent always 'win out' for MMOs. You have literally just made that up. There is no evidence that story has ever sold an MMO to the masses. In fact, I would think most totally ignore the story as they click to accept their shopping list of rat's tails and wolf skins. SWtoR is probably be the first MMORPG ever to sell itself on story.

and content winning out? Well, you just saying that demonstrates an incredibly simplistic view of the genre and why games fail and succeed.

If you look at any game that has stretched the graphics boundaries at launch, there have been no success stories. 

you are confusing what I am saying and what you want me to be saying.

I accept that photo realism isnt the way to go, I personally enjoy well done cartoon style GFX and am not attacking them as a concept, but SWtoR IMO does cartoon gfx badly. Like I said, IMO they look crude and ugly.

The style they are drawn is is irrelevant to what I said.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4839

7/30/11 4:26:09 PM#51

Originally posted by DarkPony



I think they would do well to add more pillars to their foundation instead of adding more of the same over the years. Instead of taking Blizzard as an example, who are just adding more of the same kind of content and throw in a new race or class now and then, they will hopefully take CCP's course of action by expanding in a much broader sense.


In SWTOR's case I'd love to see a vast, space-content expansion with stuff like free roaming, mining, asteroid outposts, space exploration, spaceship pvp, a wide choice of player ships and the option to fly and fight in a ship with a group of people (dedicated gunners, pilot, navigation officer, etc). That would really add something else to all the planetary based bipedal gameplay and has the possibility to link planetary destinations in a much more immersive, exploratory kind of way compared to cutscenes.



 


 This! People can say a lot about SWG, but that's what I loved about Jump to Lightspeed expansion!


It was actually a very very good expansion. It just launched in a bad way. But the expansion itself was great nonetheless, with actual working multi manned ships! like the Y-wing for example. That was great fun!


  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7121

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

7/30/11 4:38:47 PM#52
Originally posted by edgecrusher213

Originally posted by vesavius



Originally posted by Yalexy


 





Originally posted by vesavius

lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you imagine how they would appear in 15 years :P





 


Graphics are not the main-reason for people to play games. Look at the still most succesful MMO that's WoW.


Gonna snip all that because it was pretty irrelevant to what I said.


And nothing you said actually contradicted the fact that the character models were 'basic', in fact you just really made numerous rationalisations for them rather then arguing a counter point.


It appears we agree.


So again, current graphics are good enough


yes, they are 'good enough' for today I guess. They are sub par imo to other older games (like CO as an example), but they are functional and do the job. No more no less.


I expected more then that though myself.



 

Champions Online for good character models?  Uh, okay...


The customization is good, yes.  But the models themselves are not all THAT great. 

 

if you think CO's are 'not that great' then you need to actually get some hands on time with SWtoR in order to see the reality. Cryptic's efforts at their models are truth far ahead pretty much in every regard from a technical stand point, despite the other failings of their game.

If you are really saying CO's models 'arnt that great', you are actually saying SWtoR's suck monkey's nuts (and I would agree)

  DarkPony

Steed of Tardcore

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 5637

Confident, cocky, lazy, dead.

7/30/11 4:45:41 PM#53
Originally posted by daemon

Originally posted by DarkPony



I think they would do well to add more pillars to their foundation instead of adding more of the same over the years. Instead of taking Blizzard as an example, who are just adding more of the same kind of content and throw in a new race or class now and then, they will hopefully take CCP's course of action by expanding in a much broader sense.


In SWTOR's case I'd love to see a vast, space-content expansion with stuff like free roaming, mining, asteroid outposts, space exploration, spaceship pvp, a wide choice of player ships and the option to fly and fight in a ship with a group of people (dedicated gunners, pilot, navigation officer, etc). That would really add something else to all the planetary based bipedal gameplay and has the possibility to link planetary destinations in a much more immersive, exploratory kind of way compared to cutscenes.



 

You should post this on the official game forums so there would be a chance that some DEVs there notice it and put some of those great ideas on the drawing board.


Personally I couldnt agree more with all of them.

Thanks man. Haven't even signed up there yet though. V_V

But feel free to post it :)

Personally I think they are considering that path anyway though: many people have been asking for an expansion of the space content and the minigame as is implemented in the game now will make sure that people continue to do so.

The question is: will they have the guts to go that path? Or will they opt for a more traditional expansion route, with adding planets, new sets of gear, a slightly higher level cap and toss in an extra race now and then? Personally I am pretty fed up with expanions like that; also kind of a slap in the face to see all the stuff you've been working on for so long be suddenly rendered obsolete each time an expansion hits.

In WOW I found that particularly annoying: not so much that the looks of the new gear were so bad, (they were often looking much better), but you kind of grow attached to those things you were so happy with when you first acquired them.

*recalls how happy he once was with his first Kroll Blade and doing all those exciting solo stealth runs of BRD to kill Plugger Spazzring for a Barman Shanker at level 52ish*

  Morcotulcon

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/10
Posts: 260

7/30/11 5:06:42 PM#54

15 Years? Seriously? IT will die in the next 4-7 years at least, when the next Star Wars MMORPG gets released. And I'm beeing optimistic.


Look ---> Guild Wars 2; Blade & Soul; TERA; and a lot of other games completelly changing the mmorpg gameplay to be more active, and fixing the MMORPG flaws (GW2 in particular). And you still have to count for the LOT of people that will stay playing WoW and paying subscritptions for each game isn't going to work for neither P2P MMORPGs - of course, that includes SWTOR.


There are games that are still alive after 15 years, but those are very rare and the duration of most MMO games don't even live for more then 3-5 years, and even the most popular ones might not reach 10-12 years alive, WoW included! 


IMHO, that is a really bold statement, which is totally unrealistic. Even more, considering the amount of bad criticism the game is already having. Sure, it has really cool things with good criticism indeed, but that's not enough.


  Beezerbeez

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/04
Posts: 264

7/30/11 5:16:52 PM#55

I like DarkPony's suggestion that besides just adding new worlds that play the same they would do well to expand the realm of the game as well.  Even in jest, suggesting that the game will be developed for 15 years is the right attitude.  It very well may and I hope it kicks butt along the way.

Noone isn't a word; It's "no one". On a side note, you can guess where the word "none" came from.
------------------------------
Their, There, and They're are not interchangeable.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3477

7/30/11 5:54:01 PM#56

There are three parties here that all have invested in SWTOR. Bioware, EA and Lucas Arts. Bioware can plan all they want for the upcoming 15 years, but we know now that Lucas Arts might decide to support something different before SWTOR is that old. Bioware/EA needs LA's license to have the right to develop a MMO based on Star Wars. EA could also decide to drop support for whatever business reason before that time.

I think it is ridiculous (given what we know so far what happened with different MMO's)to talk about a 15yr plan in this business. I also think it is not right towards potential customers. SWG devs also planned ahead lol and LA (and/or SOE whatever) didnt care.

  Artymus77

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/10
Posts: 143

7/30/11 5:57:40 PM#57

hell if Everquest 1 can do it why cant SWTOR?

  Nhoj1983

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/08
Posts: 183

7/30/11 5:58:54 PM#58

Originally posted by Morcotulcon

15 Years? Seriously? IT will die in the next 4-7 years at least, when the next Star Wars MMORPG gets released. And I'm beeing optimistic.




Look ---> Guild Wars 2; Blade & Soul; TERA; and a lot of other games completelly changing the mmorpg gameplay to be more active, and fixing the MMORPG flaws (GW2 in particular). And you still have to count for the LOT of people that will stay playing WoW and paying subscritptions for each game isn't going to work for neither P2P MMORPGs - of course, that includes SWTOR.




There are games that are still alive after 15 years, but those are very rare and the duration of most MMO games don't even live for more then 3-5 years, and even the most popular ones might not reach 10-12 years alive, WoW included! 




IMHO, that is a really bold statement, which is totally unrealistic. Even more, considering the amount of bad criticism the game is already having. Sure, it has really cool things with good criticism indeed, but that's not enough.



 


Respectfully,  4 years for an MMO is a catastrophic failure.  I'm going to just ignore your most dire prediction.  I really doubt that even STO will not pass that mark.  I'll allow for the possibility of 7 years being that we don't know the quality of the game but the reality is no matter how many people on this site beg for "different" the reality is "different" is dangerous and not always good.


 


The bad criticism your talking about for is more or less people who havn't played the game for a long period at all or just have made up their own preconceptions based on what they wanted the game to be.  Most hands on articles are good so I don't really get where your coming from here.  Even the ones that I saw that were less enthused had more to do with that person's expressed disinterest in general with the Star Wars franchise period(which really does matter if you don't like the subject material no mattter how good the game is your going to yawn and go to a game that interests you).  Now it's far from tested long term so I'll give you that but your statement of 3-5 years being good for an MMO is totally off.  Maybe for FTP but not AAA titles.  Just think of all the so called failures that are going strong and aren't likely to disapear any time soon. (WAR, AoC, STO, Aion<technically a huge sucess.. even if it wasn't here>,LOTRO, DDO,CO,COH,VG,EQ2)


 


As far as the other games you've mentioned that are "moving the genre forward".  I'll start with TERA.  Newish combat ideas but the rest of the game is more or less a by the book MMO.  It's already under fire in Korea for it's lack of content.  A game I look forward to but I'll bet SWTOR is a better package.  B & S Another game I'm looking forward to... but there's very little info about a serious revamp could be good but it doesn't(as of yet) belong on the list. 


GW2 is the best of the list but even so there's no reason to beleave that all elements of the game will so leave SWTOR in the dust that there's no reason to play the game.  The thing that comes to mind here is story.  Sure it's there but BW is the master in the field not arenanet or any other company in the business(perhaps rivaled by the Witcher dev).  Which is my last point SWTOR story is it's inovation.   I doubt any other MMO will be able to touch it in that catagory for years to come and you can bet it will be one of the major new tennants for mmos in the coming years.  It can be argued it was there before but let's be honest it was passable at best. 


 


I'd think this game will be around at least 7 years if it's a disapointment much longer if it's not.  I would have laughed at myself ten years ago but sheesh look at all the even moderately sucessful games still about.  MMOs don't disapear very quickly if they ever gain traction and it's got all the makings of a healthy community size.(100k+)  One thing to remember is there new MMO players every day we aren't a static group.  What is old and tired to some is new and fresh to others.  Link in this is SW and you have a rather large mass apeal drawing in many who'd ignore a traditional fantasy mmorpg.. just think about it.  It may not be as big as wow but die as soon at that?  Naw.


  Artymus77

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/10
Posts: 143

7/30/11 6:00:01 PM#59
Originally posted by Nhoj1983

Originally posted by Morcotulcon

15 Years? Seriously? IT will die in the next 4-7 years at least, when the next Star Wars MMORPG gets released. And I'm beeing optimistic.




Look ---> Guild Wars 2; Blade & Soul; TERA; and a lot of other games completelly changing the mmorpg gameplay to be more active, and fixing the MMORPG flaws (GW2 in particular). And you still have to count for the LOT of people that will stay playing WoW and paying subscritptions for each game isn't going to work for neither P2P MMORPGs - of course, that includes SWTOR.




There are games that are still alive after 15 years, but those are very rare and the duration of most MMO games don't even live for more then 3-5 years, and even the most popular ones might not reach 10-12 years alive, WoW included! 




IMHO, that is a really bold statement, which is totally unrealistic. Even more, considering the amount of bad criticism the game is already having. Sure, it has really cool things with good criticism indeed, but that's not enough.



 

Respectfully,  4 years for an MMO is a catastrophic failure.  I'm going to just ignore your most dire prediction.  I really doubt that even STO will not pass that mark.  I'll allow for the possibility of 7 years being that we don't know the quality of the game but the reality is no matter how many people on this site beg for "different" the reality is "different" is dangerous and not always good.


 


The bad criticism your talking about for is more or less people who havn't played the game for a long period at all or just have made up their own preconceptions based on what they wanted the game to be.  Most hands on articles are good so I don't really get where your coming from here.  Even the ones that I saw that were less enthused had more to do with that person's expressed disinterest in general with the Star Wars franchise period(which really does matter if you don't like the subject material no mattter how good the game is your going to yawn and go to a game that interests you).  Now it's far from tested long term so I'll give you that but your statement of 3-5 years being good for an MMO is totally off.  Maybe for FTP but not AAA titles.  Just think of all the so called failures that are going strong and aren't likely to disapear any time soon. (WAR, AoC, STO, Aion

 


I'd think this game will be around at least 7 years if it's a disapointment much longer if it's not.  I would have laughed at myself ten years ago but sheesh look at all the even moderately sucessful games still about.  MMOs don't disapear very quickly if they ever gain traction and it's got all the makings of a healthy community size.(100k+)  One thing to remember is there new MMO players every day we aren't a static group.  What is old and tired to some is new and fresh to others.  Link in this is SW and you have a rather large mass apeal drawing in many who'd ignore a traditional fantasy mmorpg.. just think about it.  It may not be as big as wow but die as soon at that?  Naw.

 

as for STO it has potential if its done right but i really doubt it though

  EricDanie

Tipster

Joined: 2/10/05
Posts: 2244

7/30/11 6:53:07 PM#60

That's probably considering they keep a development team size the same as they have right now... I have yet to see one that doesn't shrink beyond launch and starts a cycle of losing subscribers due to lack of content which leads to more downsizing and it goes on slowly.


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