Well - "prehistoric" does NOT mean "no language".

For all we know, man knew language for at least very least tens of thousands of years. In fact, our language apparatus is so sophisticated that at least hundreds of thousands, more likely some millions of years are much more likely. We dont know if homo erectus could already speak, but given the level of specialization our speaking apparatus has, its likely that they did and that it was a huge advantage and an important part of the reason why humans developed such large brains.

However, mankind until recently didnt knew the idea of scripture, or at least not lasting scripture (they might have written on leather etc, but not on stone).

There is also the issue of lost languages. The Maya knew script, but nobody can read it.

Otherwise I find little appeal in a prehistoric MMO. I simply fail to see many possibilities what to do.

Originally posted by Adamantine

Well - "prehistoric" does NOT mean "no language".

For all we know, man knew language for at least very least tens of thousands of years. In fact, our language apparatus is so sophisticated that at least hundreds of thousands, more likely some millions of years are much more likely. We dont know if homo erectus could already speak, but given the level of specialization our speaking apparatus has, its likely that they did and that it was a huge advantage and an important part of the reason why humans developed such large brains.

However, mankind until recently didnt knew the idea of scripture, or at least not lasting scripture (they might have written on leather etc, but not on stone).

There is also the issue of lost languages. The Maya knew script, but nobody can read it.

Otherwise I find little appeal in a prehistoric MMO. I simply fail to see many possibilities what to do.

 Please don't, I have had more than a days worth of ignorance and googlism.  Please ignore it. 

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Oh dont worry it would, I wanted the prehistoric world to seem familiar but alien as well. Keep that "cool, look there are  dinosaurs" feel while still offering plenty of "what the hell is that" moments.

Oh, if they put dinosaurs in such a game, that is a pretty huge "what the hell is that" moment already.

Dinosaurs vanished from the earth 65 million years ago. The first humans appeared 2 million years ago.

Never have humans met alife dinosaurs.

Originally posted by thebigchin11

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Originally posted by thebigchin11

fair enough.  But if a new world why not let your imagination run wild?

 

Oh dont worry it would, I wanted the prehistoric world to seem familiar but alien as well. Keep that "cool, look there are  dinosaurs" feel while still offering plenty of "what the hell is that" moments.

I already know my first expansion would probably be an area were hostile aliens have landed ships to rape & pillage the planets natural resources and intend to destroy the planet in the process. Since its your new home you would need to stop them.

Alternatively this could be in at launch with factional sides for players to choose human or alien.

 I assume you would have genetically engineered humans full of Nano's friendly or otherwise?

I had considered nano tech from the AO experience but they had it more like magic which wasnt so great. Nanotech to me would be more like upgrades, buffs & maybe a healer class.

genetically modified/engineered humans I had in my first post as a "player race/s". Thinking about it more now I have somewhat changed my mind.

Races:

Human - straight forward human.

Gene Enhanced Human - Using surgery to implant vat grown organs and recombinant DNA gene technology these humans have been enhanced to help them perform at a higher level in zeroG and alien environments, performing under low oxygen conditions, and a variety of other environments. They are still human just enhanced. Their weakness is the implants and gene therapy make it harder for them to heal from injuries.

Neo Sapien - Or new Human, scientifically the next step on from gene enhanced. This new race has been genetically engineered from scratch & were created for hard labour. They have all the advantages of the gene enhanced human but they are also bigger and stronger with natural dermal plating for portection and the ability to breathe under water among other things. Originally a slave race the remaining Neo Sapiens of the colony ship have been granted their freedom to help themselves and the rest of the survivors carve out a home on the primitive New Earth. Their one weakness is they lack creative thought and are not very independant as a result.

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Originally posted by thebigchin11

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Originally posted by thebigchin11

fair enough.  But if a new world why not let your imagination run wild?

 

Oh dont worry it would, I wanted the prehistoric world to seem familiar but alien as well. Keep that "cool, look there are  dinosaurs" feel while still offering plenty of "what the hell is that" moments.

I already know my first expansion would probably be an area were hostile aliens have landed ships to rape & pillage the planets natural resources and intend to destroy the planet in the process. Since its your new home you would need to stop them.

Alternatively this could be in at launch with factional sides for players to choose human or alien.

 I assume you would have genetically engineered humans full of Nano's friendly or otherwise?

I had considered nano tech from the AO experience but they had it more like magic which wasnt so great. Nanotech to me would be more like upgrades, buffs & maybe a healer class.

genetically modified/engineered humans I had in my first post as a "player race/s". Thinking about it more now I have somewhat changed my mind.

Races:

Human - straight forward human.

Gene Enhanced Human - Using surgery to implant vat grown organs and recombinant DNA gene technology these humans have been enhanced to help them perform at a higher level in zeroG and alien environments, performing under low oxygen conditions, and a variety of other environments. They are still human just enhanced. Their weakness is the implants and gene therapy make it harder for them to heal from injuries.

Neo Sapien - Or new Human, the next step on from gene enhanced, this new race has been genetically engineered from scratch & were created for hard labour. They have all the advantages of the gene enhanced human but they are also bigger and stronger with natural dermal plating for portection and the ability to breathe under water among other things. Originally a slave race the remaining Neo Sapiens of the colony ship have been granted their freedom to help themselves and the rest of the survivors carve out a home on the primitive New Earth. Their one weakness is they lack creative thought and are not very independant as a result.

 It was a joke, nano's could never differentiate between good and bad cells, the whole thing was a joke... You can improve the genes they have, make them more cancer proof, but the cell death will always outsrip renewal and they will always die

thats it.

Originally posted by Requiamer

Originally posted by Homitu

Originally posted by Requiamer

Originally posted by Homitu

Originally posted by Karesh

Pretty much like the title stated, feel free to post your ideas, etc.

I always find people's opinions and ideas interesting, so that's pretty much my reason for creating this thread.

There would be a fundamental paradox with a prehistoric MMO.  Prehistory by definition refers to a time before recorded history.  That means a time before people (whatever races inhabit your MMO world) could communicate via language to pass down stories and lore either orally or through written text.  This would eliminate all possibilty for lore, background story, context, and, logically, even communication in your MMO, which are all rather essential "MMORPG" features.  A game lacking these features could hardly be called an MMO or RPG, thus the paradox.  

 

The only way I can comprehend a "prehistoric" MMO is if you control a particular beast in a sort of Darwinian, cut-throat, survival of the fittest jungle world.  You would focus on strengthening your beast in typical RPG/MMO progression fashion.  Perhaps a milestone to shoot for would be to "evolve" a la Pokemon.  Perhaps if you work with others to take down a larger beast, you then (inexplicably) gain control of that beast as a means of "progressing."  

I don't want to be rude but i think you should check a dictionary because your definition is really off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistory  

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prehistory

 

Actually, my definition was spot on.  The only ammendment would be that prehistoric peoples, although non-literate, could communicate in a primitive way without a fully developed language.  

Ho really? no your definition is totally off. During all prehistory people used oral tradition, history is written this is what make them different, it doesn't mean tradition and language wasn't fully developped, in fact very far from that. Language was fully developped during pre history i think it is confirmed in your link too. The fact you don't have proof, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. All the prehistorical work in fact proove that human intelligence and language was pretty much the same as today, only the mean was poorer.

Seriously - his definition is the one archaeologists (many of whom study prehistoric human and human-like life) use. They're, you know, the experts in all things prehistory together with paleontologists. Their definition is literally 'before written word'. When a society did not develop written word, it was prehistoric. Simple as that. You people shouldn't go around adding your own definitions where you see fit when it clearly contrasts with the expert opinion.

A prehistoric MMO would be impractical and outright unattractive. In the historical sense, I mean.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

A prehistoric MMO would be impractical and outright unattractive. In the historical sense, I mean.

True, but as a starting concept it has a lot of possibilities like my "similar to earth, alien prehistoric world" concept.

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Originally posted by BizkitNL

A prehistoric MMO would be impractical and outright unattractive. In the historical sense, I mean.

True, but as a starting concept it has a lot of possibilities like my "similar to earth, alien prehistoric world" concept.

 

Dino Riders comes to mind :).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnHuNUNV0BE

Actually, I think such a game would be ideal for an Indie developer to get into the game, so to speak. And this is something I've thought about from time to time, a "Stone Age" game. 

First let me put forth the general idea that I think it could go.

• Game is based on Clans (guilds) but solo play should always be possible at greater risk, usually but not required as a clan member
• Sandbox
• Skill based
• Heavy lean on Stats (75% skills, 25% stats)
• Magic based on religions (Earth Mother, Sun Gods, Storm Gods, etc.). Elemental in nature.

• You would have to be a master spear chucker (and have a certain level of applicable stats) to understand and learn making and using an atlatle or bow and arrows.
• You'd have to be a master stone bowl maker to understand and learn how to make a stone fireplace.
• Levels of carving wood and bone
• Magic
• Etc.

• Meat
• Seafood
• Grain
• Nuts
• Berries
• Roots

• Wood
• Stone/flint
• Bone
• Leather and as part of the advanced skills include wool (clothing would have armor function)
• Shells
• Advanced skills to include pottery
• Feathers

• Regular critters (deer, wolves, boars, birds, etc.)
• Mega critters (Mastadons, Saber Tooths, Cave Bears (these were giant bears), and all the others of that erra
• Giant predatory flightless and flighted birds (they were from a different era, mostly)
• A small set of Neanderthal and other "races"
• Fantastical Man Eating Plants (trap type stuff)
• Some leftover dynasour predators
• And I'd add some fantasy Orcs, Trolls, and Dragons (especially for those caves and cavers).

I would go Land of the Lost with Sleestak and their strange crystal technology.

Originally posted by thebigchin11

Oh God, please can we accept the point that dino's and humanoids never co-existed.

The main problem is that pre-civilization Egyptians or Babylonians poking the mud with sticks to grow crops just wouldn't be a terribly interesting game.  More of a civilization sim than an MMO.

All of those Lost World type novels published by Burroughs and the gang made money (despite imperfect science) because the conflicts between man and nature, or man and man, or man and martian, made for some interesting tales.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by thebigchin11

Oh God, please can we accept the point that dino's and humanoids never co-existed.

The main problem is that pre-civilization Egyptians or Babylonians poking the mud with sticks to grow crops just wouldn't be a terribly interesting game.  More of a civilization sim than an MMO.

All of those Lost World type novels published by Burroughs and the gang made money (despite imperfect science) because the conflicts between man and nature, or man and man, or man and martian, made for some interesting tales.

Exactly.

The idea of a prehistoric game very likely results in boring and pointless gameplay. Just look at todays remaining primitive people, especially normadic ones. Thats how this game would be.

You CAN add dinosaurs etc, but then you will have made a fantasy MMO, not a prehistoric MMO.

Hmm...

A kiddie MMO set in the flintstones world would be how ai do it >.< 

Kind of like free realms mixed wif GTA except yknoe...Yabba dabba doo~~

Originally posted by Castillle

Hmm...

A kiddie MMO set in the flintstones world would be how ai do it >.< 

Kind of like free realms mixed wif GTA except yknoe...Yabba dabba doo~~

Man, that show used to be great.

Just another suggestion from an old retired game designer. There is a theory that Mars was once hit by a comet destroying the atmosphere, rearranging the lands and killing off of all life. There is also theory that Martians established a colony on earth prior to the destruction of Mars, a colony called Atlantis.

Since prehistoric means, literally, before history, just add the two together and place Atlantis 65 million years ago in the Jurassic Age. Now set that Atlantis in a medieval, struggling colony survival on a heavy gravity planet (to martians). Then take the players, let them outfit themselves with all they can carry of modern equipment (materials on their body only) and transport them (one way only) to the Atlantean continent by means of a time travel (portal? Machine?)

Here we would have the whole range of Jurrasic dinosaurs, genetically modified humans, animals and plants by the Martians. We would have the Martians (using mech exoskeletons to move about, left after the destruction of Mars. No more supplies from home). You can add fantasy elements or if needed, lore can use Martian science to recreate the legends we have in our own time (dragons, werewolves, vampires, zombies, monsters etc..). Also giant insects, hive minds, the list is long as to what is available for game.

Players will have a distinct advantage in their modern equipment (guns, explosives, electric lights, kevlar armor, medical kits, knives, swords, bows etc...). HOWEVER there are no replacements for any of their equipment (specially ammo, medicines etc..). Players must use local stuff and Crafting is a necessity if players want to keep ahead of the power curve in competition with Martians, humans, hybrids, genetic alterants, dinosaurs, monsters (created or imported and modified).

For added flavor the art, science, architecture of ancient historic civilazations can be used in some protoform (Mayan, Egyptian, Chinese, Southeast Asian, African, Anasazi, Arctic) for a degree of familiarity. Basic concept would make a neat novel or trilogy too lol ! So there it is - a prehistoric, non realistic gaming environment and layout in simple form. Let me know if anyone wants to make it, I will be happy to be a consultant!!!

If its a Prehistoric MMO i would go the route of different Gods( because its a newly made world). You are the gods that walks among your people, and you need to gather followers by helping the newly made humanoids by getting them the tools to create society, to help them get weapons with minerals for hunts and foods and to get them to worship you and the more you are worshipped the stronger buff you get. And others can steal your worshippers or destroy the monuments they build to worship you with.

There are Dinosaurs, giant mythical creatures that can destroy your followers and you need to destroy them.

There can be wars fought by your followers against other followers, and each can choose the kind of humanoid followers they want, it can be lizardman, it can be halflings , it can be giants. Different races of followers that are strong in different ways. And the more you help your followers the more lands they conquer and rule. If they hate you, they might rebel against you and other gods can take over.

First off I'd just like to add that although the debate over 'what is Prehistory?' in this thread is interesting it is somewhat pointless. The boundry between history and prehistory is the introduction of language in the written form... Period. Now this does not mean there was not oral language before this as there most certainly was. Paleoanthropologists figure oral language in some form or another goes back millions of years all the way back to the Australopithecines. It's as simple as this:

History = Writing

Prehistory = Before Writing

Now as for the subject of the thread I think the only way a prehistorically acurate MMO would have enough content to be interesting would be in the post-farming to writing period. This was at the dawn of civilization when small farming communities and actual towns started to develop and thrive. This is also when humans started to specialize in their skills. Before farming you had small hunter-gatherer groups and all members of the group did just about everything that was needed for the group to survive. After farming humans started a more settled lifestyle and the community made it so individuals could specialize in certain skills. This was also the birthplace of the marketplace where wares were traded for other wares and there may have even been some crude form of currency involved.

Other than that the only way I see it being at all interesting is if you throw out prehistory and do a more scifi or steampunk version of it. Something akin to 'Land of the lost', 'The land that time forgot' or even Anne Mccaffrey's 'Dinosaur Planet' series.

Bren

They could offer opposable thumbs and fire in the cashshop.

I hope that this is not too long to read, becouse there are in my opinion interesting ideas,

Hello,

First I would like to apologise becouse I didn't read all post so I may be will repeat someone else and for the second I don't like todays mmorpg I seek more from the game then current games can offer and for the third excuse me for not english being my mothertongue. (bad excuse) So lets begin.

 Now the ideas. Fisrt idea is that prehistoric mmo (later just PO = prehistoric online) would be almost non-violent, I mean something like in real life. It would be built on cooperation, if players will not cooperate they will die. I played with idea of just one life but that would be too radical, brutal instead of this in PO would be very easy to die. There wouldn't be calssical system of experience, obtaining items and pvp. And to erase last thing that current mmo would have in common with PO, there would not be proffesions like in any other mmo. (Still I am not sure if my ideas are pure original).

I will explaint my system trough story with comments:

Fisrt you are born in a cave you have no father and mother, not literally becouse whole tribe is your family so every man is your father and every women is your mother. Since you are just kid you have to learn how to live and become more independent and there is nothing that you can't take back.

"This means that after your first login you will go trough some kind of tutorial. You will be able to try everything and if you dont like it you can do it again other way. That inculde skillpoints, mutations, craftpoints etc. (I will explain that later)."

Through your childhood you will learn how your tribe works, that all year some tribemen gather food (hunters, pickers, some kind of farmers) to survive winter or catastrophe that might come. That other tribemen are working as craftmen (tailor, weaponsmith, jewerly craftmen) and there are ofcourse shamans their task is to heal wounded hunters and pickers. Their another task is to foresee the future to help people.

"so main system is thet players are divided to tribes and and they have to gather food for winter. And there are more was how to do that. I mentioned hunters, pickers, crafters and shamans, that reminds professions but this proffesions are free, that means you wont pick your profession at the start but you are building your profession through game, and if you are going for hunt you are a hunter, if you are picking fruits you are a picker. The profession will be creared trhough skillpoints (SP). You can add SP to your staff skill, spear skill, club skill, throw skill, trap skill, finding skill, identify skill, there will bw large amount of craft skill and for shamans will be heal skills, phropecy skills (but that will only be foreseeing from bones, fire, water, wind, toads and other animals etc.) And for crafting it can be secondary profession or full profession."

You have reached adulthood and your life begins. You are bound to stick with your tribe or run to another. And there is ofcourse way to live alone, but this path is very hard and your survival is not very probable. So you choose your way and help your tribe to survive in wilderness. You are capable of hunting small animals (birds, lizards, rabits, snakes etc,) but to hunt down larger animals (bears, tygers, giraffes, lions, pumas, leopards, wolves etc.) you have to work in group, set a good trap or tame a dog to help you. Then you can go and pick up fruits but for better progress you should sew yourself a bag or you can only carry fruits in your hands. You can find a places where fruits and mushrooms regulary grow or puck roots from ground.

"I said thet this game would be build up on cooperation but still ther should be a way how to play alone, so if you choose to be loner you will lose some benefits. You wont have a shaman to heal you or other crafters to made things for you becouse you will have to spent your skillpoints to another skills then crafting and healing or foreseeing to survive."

From time to time you will encounter some one from diferent tribe and begin to talk. This talk can turn out in good relationship with whole tribe and you can share your skills, material and food. Or it can turn out to war where hunters become a warriors and shamans begin to learn how to hurt people. Craftmen will invent more powerful weapons. This war inculde tactic so you have to choose when and how you attack or built yourself a wall and try to defend your tribe and food but be aware that you can starve to death if you can't go out of your walls.

There are even tribes that are gaining food mainly from wars so when they see you, you better run.

"PvP in this game wouldn't be player vs payer so PvP isn't right term. It would be tribe vs tribe = TvT. But you can of course fight with each other in terms of tribe. I think that there is small to explain aobout this paragraph maybe just that there would be posible to steal food from another tribe."

 Onece upon a time your location become inhospitable. Animals and fruits starts to disapear and your tribe has to move. Thats when finding skill shines, to find a good cave takes a lot of experience. Your tribe is made to move even in other circumstances like disasters (fire, storm, flood or becouse of agressive tribe nearby).

"In PO there would be a option of merging tribes or only making an aliance. I didn't mention how a player will earn expirience. That wont be nothin new, just from playing (for killing an animal, picking pruits, crafting, healing, for handing over food you gathered, basicaly for using your skills). At the begining I wrote something about mutations. Mutations would be physical changes that only apear when you reach certain point of experience (level). Mutation can influence your strenght, intelect, dexterity, wisdom, charisma etc. every mutation will make a small change in your look and according to your choice (str, dex, wis, char...) you will grow higer, smaller, bolder or thinner. If you add more intelect your head will get bigger and the same with strenght and muscles, charisma and beauty etc."

I realise that this system of game play would be pretty hard to create and even harder to get it in process, but I would love game like this. It would need large amount of people (players) even developers (that is given) but I think that it would be popular if well made.

PS: I forgot to mention currency: That would be a barter trade. And there would be a points of trust gained through playing in one tribe that would decrease the prise of things in shop of your tribe. (by shop I mean individual npcs that sell their goods)