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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why is Raiding so unpopular to the MMO Community?

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319 posts found
  Inktomi

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 3/25/09
Posts: 664

Give me sparkly, twinkly...

7/10/11 8:13:28 AM#101

My reasoning why raiding is an unpopular (and inefficient) mode of accessing endgame content for the newest and best gear in MMORPG's:

1) HUGE timesink.

2) New gear in next patch/expansion that makes now gear obsolete.

3) Raiding vs family/worktime/girlfriend-boyfriend-wife-fiance-friend time

4) Raids sometimes last too late.

5) If you can't raid for the best gear, then you can't hang with the best raiders to get the best gear so you can raid for the best gear so you can hang.... get the idea.

7) YET ANOTHER TANK AND SPANK BOSS?

8) :::pressing the wrong button by accident::: = wipe = everyone thinks Im a jerk and I'm not getting into the next raid.

9) Guild Leader: "C'mon moar dps, moar dots, moar....dots....hit it like you mean it!"

and last but not least---

10) Everything I raid for, all my gear, weapons, armor, rings, trinkets, necklaces, spells, mounts, reputation and any other sparkly, twinkly item really doesn't exist...I don't own it...it just isn't real. Everything is property of the company developing and running the game in general, its in the Terms of Service. So if two things happen being A) I decide not to pay my $15 a month to rent my toonor B) the servers get closed down then it all goes up in smoke.

Yeah...that does it for me.

  tawess

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 1993

7/10/11 8:21:08 AM#102

Actually the question in it self poses a problem... I know a good deal of people who only do MMO's to raid. So the question is (if someone can some up with a good way to measure it) what does the broad community think. We all know what the 1% who hangs out in places like this think and/or like  but to extrapolate that this 1% can be made a mirror of the entire community is in my mind streching it a bit.

 

Why is it so unpopular... I'd like to say due to two things...

 

A: It has been done before. so called MMO vets are getting burnt out

B: It is the "in" thing right now to know the old ways about as the 1% of the community searches for a new identity,

 

That is my opinion at least... and as such it can not be right or wrong, but it can be proved faulty  tho and i invite anyone to to do that.

Tomas Soapbox

This have been a good conversation

  Mogcat

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/10
Posts: 198

7/10/11 8:27:13 AM#103

I've enjoyed raids. Some of them have been really fun to explore with 10-25 guildies. I dont know what you guys are hampering on about tons of hours required. I mean I remember in the sapce of 4hours we killed 12bosses. The only time I've spent tons of time on a boss is those few bosses with somewhat annoying and complex mechanics such as heroic PP, sindragosa and the lich king. Nefarian also in Cata.

I do miss the faster paced normal raids in Wrath of the Lich King. They were a lot more fun because they dropped the time required to raid creating a more fast paced enviroment which honestly was a lot of fun. Alas though Gear Whores did not like the fact everyone could kill LK on normal even though thats how it was designed to be and Cataclysn came into effect. RIP Wrath of the Lich King.

  Neanderthal

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/05
Posts: 1613

7/10/11 8:30:59 AM#104

I hated raiding when hating raiding wasn't cool.  Back in the early days of EQ I started hating raiding and my feelings haven't changed over the years.

I'm one of those old timers who bitches about how the new games have gone in the wrong direction and so on and so forth but raiding is one of those old design flaws I would be happy to see tossed into the trash heap of mmo history.

Other people have already listed plenty of reasons to hate it so I won't bother going through that again.

  parrotpholk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/05
Posts: 3317

7/10/11 8:33:42 AM#105

I hate them because they are generally the same scripted fight over and over and over again. Once you have it on farm then what the hell is challenge and point?  Now if the fight changed every single time to where it could never be on farm status and tatics were always having to change thats a different story.

  UnleadedRev

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 317

7/10/11 8:39:02 AM#106

Because as we all found out in WoW and to a lesser degree in other MMOs, most game designers have no clue as to what "fun" is and instead design such raids to keep you paying and playing in a carrot and stick approach, as opposed to just making the FREAKING GAME/RAID FUN ti keep subscribers.

Case in point, in WoW:

1) You take an hour organising a PUG raid after spamming trade chat for what seemed like an eternity, putting up with all the kiddies pottie talk and other brain sapping chatter, only to have players quit right before the Raid starts or 10 seconds into it....DOH!

2) Per above, you wipe.

3) Per above, if somehow you do finish it, you get jack squat as loot.

4) Oh yeah, and now yo uare locked out of the Raid so that people with no life cant farm it.

5) Per above, you are in a great guild, but the same crap above happens....DOH!

6) when all is said and done you just wasted several hours for nothing.

Why bother.....

Fear the Alien, the Psyker, the Heretic, the moronic Steam Moderator.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

7/10/11 8:46:00 AM#107

I think its mostly devs that like raid content.  They get some sort of kick out of seeing massive numbers of players jumping through their hoops, and largely ignore how those players feel about it, as long as they can get them to keep doing it.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Crazerage

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/10
Posts: 19

7/10/11 8:49:47 AM#108

The raiding community is very small and thats because 75% of us have jobs, familys and just don't have the time to devote being on the game at set times. I really think mmo's would be better making 5 man raids and more solo instances.

  Dredphyre

Novice Member

Joined: 9/11/10
Posts: 609

fanboi of truth

7/10/11 8:57:47 AM#109

It is unpopular with me because it is content that eats a lot of developer time, is then only utilized by a small minority, and yet I'm paying for this content that I'll never see.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5249

7/10/11 9:03:26 AM#110

I think the title should really read, why is raiding so unpopular with some of the mmorpg.com community

 

the first ever raid i took part in, was in Everquest, i had a wizard and.. as part of the 'dps' group we had to be able to focus fire on set mobs... it was exciting.. and ... i died a few times.. but it didnt stop it being fun.. having so many people in one place meant it was fairly hectic too... but it was a guild raid.. as were all the raids i was on in Everquest..  i think it was inevitable that WoW would have raiding, as it was a major feature of Everquest, and of DAOC come to think of it.. though in DAOC there was the added factor of PvP...

it does seem though, that raiding is 'scaling down' more, but then modern MMO's seem to be going more solo friendly..  so is it that raiding is becoming less fun.. or is it that what raiding is becoming, is less fun? .. i know im still having fun.. but.. im not spending as much time in games as i used to.... and while Everquest coined the phrase Evercrack.. due to its 'addictive' qualities... barring Eve (though to a lesser degree) i don't/havent been getting that kind of feeling from games for a good long while.. not really since SWG went fubar.. (i had 4 accounts ) .....  maybe planetside2 will be a game that is orientated towards large numbers of players again and reintroduces the concept of teamwork etc..  but..... SOE have let me down so many times now that optimism is out of the question...

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3495

7/10/11 9:07:46 AM#111

For me its not the encounter itself that is boring. Its more that in some games you have to do it 3289679 times if you are unlucky to obtain a full armourset. Then any PVE encounter becomes boring. That armourset which is then needed to have a chance at the next tier raid. Where the endless repeating starts over. This process is what I find mindboggling boring.

  MortisRex

Novice Member

Joined: 9/23/04
Posts: 366

7/10/11 9:08:44 AM#112
Originally posted by Cik_Asalin
Originally posted by Quizzical

It's not "doesn't like raiding any more".  It's "never did like raiding and still doesn't".

Having to schedule your life around a game is bad.

Needing to farm peculiar gear with no use outside of a particular raid is bad.

Having to do the same raid a bunch of times in a row in order to get up for the next is bad.

Being unable to do the content you want because you're waiting for a raid lockout to end is bad.

Having to worry about losing all of your progress if your guild breaks up is bad.  Especially when game mechanics seem designed with the intent to create guild drama and try to break up your guild.

Well-put.  Someone else with an extra chromosome and intelligence to boot.

 An extra chromosome tends to indicate mental retardation (trisomey 21 for instance). The more you know!

  Myria

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 542

7/10/11 9:27:57 AM#113
Originally posted by MMOExposed

I noticed the mmo community for some reason cheered Anet on, when they announced no Raid Dungeons in Guild Wars 2. Well I want to ask. Why is Raiding so unpopular now days to the MMORPG community?

 

The fundamental problem is with your thesis, raiding is not unpopular -- quite the opposite -- and extremely few people are cheering Anet on or even know or care what in the hell GW2 is going to be about.

  Hachiro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 99

7/10/11 9:32:11 AM#114


Originally posted by MMOExposed
I noticed the mmo community for some reason cheered Anet on, when they announced no Raid Dungeons in Guild Wars 2. Well I want to ask. Why is Raiding so unpopular now days to the MMORPG community?

Isnt Raiding, a Massively Multiplayer element of PvE combat?

Would you rather future MMO to be balanced for 1v1 PvE rather than 1v20+?

I want to know why the community doesnt like Raiding any more.

Note:
Wasnt calling out Guild Wars 2, that was simply an example.


Which community? i hope you are not talking about mmorpg.com because these forums do not represent MMO players world wide. There are millions of players so it is hard to say if it is unpopular or not but if i go according to the MMOS i have played recently the players in game want raiding otherwise end game is not good enough.

I am sorry but i have no idea how you are assuming that raiding is unpopular in this so called community?

Heso o kamedomo oyobanu -- Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6024

 
OP  7/10/11 9:35:39 AM#115
Originally posted by Crazerage

The raiding community is very small and thats because 75% of us have jobs, familys and just don't have the time to devote being on the game at set times. I really think mmo's would be better making 5 man raids and more solo instances.

wait, so wouldnt WoW's easier form of Raids, make things more accessable to players like you with less time?

 

 

@above poster:

just search the dicussion on GW2 forum. People cheered the fact that Anet said no Raid Dungeons.

  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7951

7/10/11 9:40:31 AM#116

it isnt the raiding part player arent fond of it is the boring grind!bring the same but a la aion in a popular format and it will fly high.check the new daily in wow it is basicly a pvpve environment. it would be perfect but for  the fact it isnt balanced kills it.now blizzard has to find a way to balance this, without putting it in a closed instance(like dungeon)solution would have been to do like aion did count each faction so they always are balanced.unbalanced server are a killer for game ,yes even wow!but blizzard is stuck in a rut,they did try to balance wintergrasp!result ?the weaker faction always won!why?they were so used to be outnumbered they crushed the oppsite faction and also blizzard had complain cause player could never hop on.so the only way blizzard can balance server is force the strongest faction to move to the weakest faction in a similar populated server.will it happen?prob not they ll balance their next title that is a given since all their prob is always close to the same issue(balancing issue)but wow ?i aint sure they will force player to move around so that server become balanced !would be perfect tho.if they went 50/50 there would be less ohrde on my server and more allies!

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4651

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

7/10/11 9:44:17 AM#117

"The raiding community is very small and thats because 75% of us have jobs, familys and just don't have the time to devote being on the game at set times. I really think mmo's would be better making 5 man raids and more solo instances"

 

can't you simply find a guild whose set times are before/after the job and family duties?

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1162

7/10/11 9:45:05 AM#118

Maybe its the fact raiding in these games is so utterly pointless and a waste of time, I mean sure the gear is nice but what uses to you have for the gear? Nothing, and thats the major problem. IMO game needs meaningful pvp endgame, people get bored of fighting pve stuff for endgame, Make some pvp stuff with land control and such, bascally daoc, before spellcrafting you'd hit max level, raid for the best gear in game, then go out and pvp with it for realm skill points and fun, and also giving your faction a buff depending on how many keeps in the frontier you owned. Before Cata hit I liked wow, I hit lv 80 on my char, then did a few raids then quit the game because raiding was just a waste of my time due to no use for the gear after its obtained.

I mean don't make the pvp forced or anything, but have it there and something nice setup so after raiding they have a use for their gear.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2681

7/10/11 9:55:15 AM#119

OP you seem to keep ignoring the fact that the massive multiplayer cooperative content that wow-style raiding stood for IS in guild wars 2 and it doesnt have the same drawbacks of typical raid dungeons.

The only difference is that there are no raid dungeons but there are raid dynamic events.  Therefore there IS raiding o.o

And WoW isnt an easier form of raids.  The barrier of entry is still huge.  Want an easy form of raids?  Go look at kings quests in fiesta online. o.o 

 

Raiding isnt unpopular.  WoW style raiding with high barrier of entry is the one getting most of the flak.

In asda story as well, there are no raid dungeons.  But there are open world areas where you need a large group of people to participate to beat. o.o  Yet they still called that raiding.  So why cant the same be said for large scale multiplayer events? o.o

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  drbaltazar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 7951

7/10/11 9:58:17 AM#120
Originally posted by Siveria

Maybe its the fact raiding in these games is so utterly pointless and a waste of time, I mean sure the gear is nice but what uses to you have for the gear? Nothing, and thats the major problem. IMO game needs meaningful pvp endgame, people get bored of fighting pve stuff for endgame, Make some pvp stuff with land control and such, bascally daoc, before spellcrafting you'd hit max level, raid for the best gear in game, then go out and pvp with it for realm skill points and fun, and also giving your faction a buff depending on how many keeps in the frontier you owned. Before Cata hit I liked wow, I hit lv 80 on my char, then did a few raids then quit the game because raiding was just a waste of my time due to no use for the gear after its obtained.

I mean don't make the pvp forced or anything, but have it there and something nice setup so after raiding they have a use for their gear.

 been there done that blizzard would probably say to you and they qwould be right!check av isnt it one of the best pvpve place in wow?but player complained that battle were too long blabla and blizzard nerfed it to what is now.i wish player had farm to bring the giant the horse the plane and everything that can be done via pvp killsbut the sad truth is player run as fast as they can and just go for the boss.and jump in again!boring?hell yes tremdously so!if they made the hidden a mandatory thing to be done before you can touch each tower or boss i bet a lot of player would have lot more fun!but the way it is it jjust plain is bring mindlessness!

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