Originally posted by thinktank001

Actually it is the opposite.  The continuously online population has just about tripled with this screw-up from CCP.

Give it a month and it will stabilize again. The 1 guy from my 78 man corp that ragequit went to Perpetuum and he barely lasted a week. He's kicking himself for giving away all his ships before he left too lol.

Originally posted by tinuelle

Originally posted by Sraik

Originally posted by luro16

Instead of making an item shop, they should try to make Eve Online fun to play.

This.

Unsubbed X2  and now playing Perp.  For me it was not about NeX.  It was a combination of CCP's tendancy to blow off fixing existing game content to chase some new "sparkly" and what appears to be a shift in where they are taking the game; less interest in long-term playerbase, more interest in rotation of new accounts.

Perpetuum is just a small indie game, it will eventuelly die out. The developers are desperate for income as most of its players have left the game. Played perpetuum, and it has its own challenges.

Perpetuum does have its challenges. Its new and is doing very well. Its much more fun than EVE. Dont have to travel 26 way points and 90 minutes later to get somewhere. Crafting in perp is much more fun and competitive compared to EVE. As well as the combat. Eve is dying.. Why many of us have left for Perp.

I expect some of you still to play EVE. But the opportunity is less in EVE than what it once was. There is a reason Perp is now higher rated by players  than EVE. How did that happen hmmm?

Also, EVE was once a small indie game. 2004 it had less than 10k subs after its first year. Then CCP did some things right. Listening to its players was one of them. Something that EVE has forgot. regardless of its player based delegates.

Now CCP is following the same route as SOE!

Originally posted by xpowderx

Now CCP is following the same route as SOE!

TROLOLOLOLOL. NeX isn't CU or NGE tbh, it's more like the m(a)icrotransactions that support Team Fortress 2, even though the game honestly doesn't need it. Maybe it will eventually hit SP and ships, but that really won't effect gameplay much. Just more noobs in big ships.

Originally posted by xpowderx

Perpetuum does have its challenges. Its new and is doing very well. Its much more fun than EVE. Dont have to travel 26 way points and 90 minutes later to get somewhere. Crafting in perp is much more fun and competitive compared to EVE. As well as the combat. Eve is dying.. Why many of us have left for Perp.

I expect some of you still to play EVE. But the opportunity is less in EVE than what it once was. There is a reason Perp is now higher rated by players  than EVE. How did that happen hmmm?

Also, EVE was once a small indie game. 2004 it had less than 10k subs after its first year. Then CCP did some things right. Listening to its players was one of them. Something that EVE has forgot. regardless of its player based delegates.

Now CCP is following the same route as SOE!

EVE is dying? Far from it. I just logged in and there were 50k+ people on. That's not dying. Perhaps you think because *you* left the game, it's dying. Well, my friend, sorry to disappoint you, but it's not. Despite your absence, TQ hasn't crashed, guns still go pew pew, and people are still flying internet spaceships. No one is crying because you left. No one has stopped logging in because you've moved on. The warp gates still function. I know, I know, in the self-centered world that we live in, it's hard to imagine something persisting after we leave it. It's even harder to imagine it doing even better after we leave. In your case, it's as if you weren't actually the human barometer of EVE's future that you thought you were...

I am glad to hear that Perpetuum is doing well. It sounds like an interesting game, and I hope the dev team can continue its success.

---

Originally posted by xpowderx

Also, EVE was once a small indie game. 2004 it had less than 10k subs after its first year.

---

Less than 10k people concurrent users...not the same as subscribers. Later in 2004, EVE Online reached the milestone of 50k subs.

CCP was never really small.

---

Originally posted by xpowderx
Dont have to travel 26 way points and 90 minutes later to get somewhere. Crafting in perp is much more fun and competitive compared to EVE.

---

Oh dear...crafting being competitive? Do you even play the game?

It is one of the most common complaints about the game. Devs even released 'highways' recently in desperate attempt to fix the issue.

If minority of EVE players weren't plain stupid and rage quit, Perpetuum would be still experiencing steady decline in sub numbers since release...

To be fair, yes, there's a little hyperbole here--indeed, Eve Online isn't going the way of the dodo any time soon, and many players will feel no impact whatsoever with respect to people who've quit.

That said, if 5% of the active subscribers quit, that's massive enough by MMO standards.  That's the kind of attrition you don't expect in a year unless the game is already in long-term decline.  I'm not suggesting that the number of people who have left are 5%, 40%, or 1%, because frankly there just isn't enough reliable data with respect to the number of paying subs.  --people online, sure, but not subs.  If ever there was a game that gave you an incentive to pay even though you don't currently play it, Eve is that game.  So financially I couldn't predict whether the exodus, however you categorize it, will have a meaningful impact on CCP on a policy level.

Nevertheless, I think you'd have to be willfully ignorant to deny that people have left in droves.  Many have left, and it's really a question of your basis of comparison.  Moreover, and perhaps more importantly, people aren't leaving quietly.  Eve is already a game with a very steep learning curve and a potentially unwelcoming, if not entirely unforgiving, beginner experience.  Combine that with a substantial number of very vocal and very bitter ex-players who have quite possibly one of the best justifications for quitting the company in industry history (second only, I suppose, to SOE's security fiascos), and I can easily see how this could be very damaging to the company.  Frankly if I were in CCP's place right now, I'd be thanking the Lord, my lucky stars, Joe Pesci, and the National Association for Stock Car Racing that White Wolf has already got as much invested in WODO as it does.

On a not entirely unrelated note, to be perfectly frank I also think it's catastrophically naive to think that this is the end of the line when it comes to CCP and non-vanity RMT.  Sure, you can take the stance that you'll just keep playing until it actually happens--after all, the return on your time investment is the fun you're having right now.  That's rational enough if you're the kind of person who can drop a multi-year time investment cold turkey, but we already know that CCP is betting its cold hard development dollars on the premise that you aren't, can't, and won't.  If you think the company's internal stance has changed just because people caught wind and raised hell, you must not have read the email.  Nevertheless I'm not privy to the meetings any more than the next guy, so certainly I can't speak with any authority here, but when you look at the economics and if you know anything about time value of money, the more rational thing to me seems to be to cut your losses when you become aware of the likelihood that your continued investment will be markedly devalued in the future.

Let's remember that this whole fiasco started because the executives at CCP didn't feel like the game was making enough money.  Do you think they're going to sell enough designer virtual jeans to make up the shortfall?  I doubt it.

So I appreciate the fact that those of you who still play the game, approve of the game, or take no stance whatsoever on monocles are feeling a little defensive when we come around and spread the word not only that the people who design, own, and maintain your game are lying greedy crooks, but also that it's very likely that anyone who starts playing Eve now will at some point in the future have the time he or she invests in advancing in the game retroactively wasted by the same lying greedy crooks.  Hey, I get it; you want to try and protect your interest in having people to play with while the good times last.

But let's not pretend that nothing is going on.

As for me, I've uninstalled, and my two accounts will never be active again.  And to be perfectly honest it makes me very sad: Eve was a phenomenal game, different from anything else out there and unmatched in its versatility and potential for military and political strategy.  I still find myself wishing I could pick it back up and play.  But I won't, and the rational investment argument is only part of the reason.  The rest is principle, and I would remind any self-important sarcastic Eve fan out there that principle also still exists in this self-centered world that we live in.

The principle is that You don't sell power is sacrosanct.  That corporations are lying to us is something that most people take for granted, and sure, every now and then you'll see a particularly nasty leak revealing the dark inner workings of how the machine is looking to squeeze a few more drops of blood out of the working man; that's essentially what happened here, and that's what gives rise to the rational argument.  But the content of what was leaked was so outrageous (see the big red text above) that it's not enough for me to simply cancel my subscription and move on because I've decided not to do business with these people anymore.  It's cliche, but a message must be sent.  Those of us who left want CCP and the rest of the industry to understand that this kind of policy will not be tolerated, and the only way to communicate that is to demonstrate that it will not be profitable, and we're not willing to allow them to test it.

The mass exodus rhetoric isn't just about frustration for what CCP has done--it's also about demonstrating the consequences of contemplating these kinds of things to others in the industry.  I want SOE, Blizzard, Trion, NCsoft, and every other company in this business to witness what happened to CCP when they tried to pull this stunt and got caught.  If an example isn't made, if people continue to support and embrace CCP because they can't wean themselves off of its delicious crack--and God forbid the same people spend loads of money on Gold Ships (yes, they're coming) and monocles--then the same people will teach CCP and every other name in the business that this kind of stuff is profitable.  That, to me and to the rest of us who have left, is the worst possible outcome.  We have taken a stance on the level of money we're willing to spend, how we'll spend it, and what we're willing to spend it on, and if that stance is to mean anything, we have to put our money where our mouth is.  That means that people are leaving Eve, and we're not coming back even though we'd like to.  It means we're going to spread the word about what happened and where we're going, and it means that we'll do the same to the next company that tries to do it.

---

Originally posted by Xhieron

I'm not suggesting that the number of people who have left are 5%, 40%, or 1%, because frankly there just isn't enough reliable data with respect to the number of paying subs. 

Nevertheless, I think you'd have to be willfully ignorant to deny that people have left in droves. Many have left, and it's really a question of your basis of comparison. 

---

Sucks to deny yourself...

As for your ranting, learn what people actually want before you make yourself look like a fool:

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

Welcome to real world.

Originally posted by xpowderx

Originally posted by tinuelle

Originally posted by Sraik

Originally posted by luro16

Instead of making an item shop, they should try to make Eve Online fun to play.

This.

Unsubbed X2  and now playing Perp.  For me it was not about NeX.  It was a combination of CCP's tendancy to blow off fixing existing game content to chase some new "sparkly" and what appears to be a shift in where they are taking the game; less interest in long-term playerbase, more interest in rotation of new accounts.

Perpetuum is just a small indie game, it will eventuelly die out. The developers are desperate for income as most of its players have left the game. Played perpetuum, and it has its own challenges.

Perpetuum does have its challenges. Its new and is doing very well. Its much more fun than EVE. Dont have to travel 26 way points and 90 minutes later to get somewhere. Crafting in perp is much more fun and competitive compared to EVE. As well as the combat. Eve is dying.. Why many of us have left for Perp.

I expect some of you still to play EVE. But the opportunity is less in EVE than what it once was. There is a reason Perp is now higher rated by players  than EVE. How did that happen hmmm?

Also, EVE was once a small indie game. 2004 it had less than 10k subs after its first year. Then CCP did some things right. Listening to its players was one of them. Something that EVE has forgot. regardless of its player based delegates.

Now CCP is following the same route as SOE!

 I'd say the main reason would be the number of people voting.

It's easier to effect the outcome of a rating when you only have 284 votes vs. 7295 votes.

Edit:  MMORPG.com hasn't even bothered to rate your game - that says it all doesn't it?

Delete me, I got click happy and posted by accident.

Originally posted by Xhieron

To be fair, yes, there's a little hyperbole here--indeed, Eve Online isn't going the way of the dodo any time soon, and many players will feel no impact whatsoever with respect to people who've quit.

 

That said, if 5% of the active subscribers quit, that's massive enough by MMO standards.  That's the kind of attrition you don't expect in a year unless the game is already in long-term decline.  I'm not suggesting that the number of people who have left are 5%, 40%, or 1%, because frankly there just isn't enough reliable data with respect to the number of paying subs.  --people online, sure, but not subs.  If ever there was a game that gave you an incentive to pay even though you don't currently play it, Eve is that game.  So financially I couldn't predict whether the exodus, however you categorize it, will have a meaningful impact on CCP on a policy level.

 

uh, hate to break it to you, but I believe its been said that the average lifespan of an MMO account is around 6 months, that means most companies expect almost 10% of active subscribers to quit each month which they hope to replace at the same time with new accounts. So the real question isn't how many are leaving but the ratio of those leaving to those coming in.

Originally posted by xpowderx

Originally posted by tinuelle

Originally posted by Sraik

Originally posted by luro16

Instead of making an item shop, they should try to make Eve Online fun to play.

This.

Unsubbed X2  and now playing Perp.  For me it was not about NeX.  It was a combination of CCP's tendancy to blow off fixing existing game content to chase some new "sparkly" and what appears to be a shift in where they are taking the game; less interest in long-term playerbase, more interest in rotation of new accounts.

Perpetuum is just a small indie game, it will eventuelly die out. The developers are desperate for income as most of its players have left the game. Played perpetuum, and it has its own challenges.

Perpetuum does have its challenges. Its new and is doing very well. Its much more fun than EVE. Dont have to travel 26 way points and 90 minutes later to get somewhere. Crafting in perp is much more fun and competitive compared to EVE. As well as the combat. Eve is dying.. Why many of us have left for Perp.

I expect some of you still to play EVE. But the opportunity is less in EVE than what it once was. There is a reason Perp is now higher rated by players  than EVE. How did that happen hmmm?

Also, EVE was once a small indie game. 2004 it had less than 10k subs after its first year. Then CCP did some things right. Listening to its players was one of them. Something that EVE has forgot. regardless of its player based delegates.

Now CCP is following the same route as SOE!

I don't understand why you are complaining about this shitty game anyway.

Hopefully this move from the devs will kill this game off permanently.

Originally posted by Nicoli

Originally posted by Xhieron

To be fair, yes, there's a little hyperbole here--indeed, Eve Online isn't going the way of the dodo any time soon, and many players will feel no impact whatsoever with respect to people who've quit.

 

That said, if 5% of the active subscribers quit, that's massive enough by MMO standards.  That's the kind of attrition you don't expect in a year unless the game is already in long-term decline.  I'm not suggesting that the number of people who have left are 5%, 40%, or 1%, because frankly there just isn't enough reliable data with respect to the number of paying subs.  --people online, sure, but not subs.  If ever there was a game that gave you an incentive to pay even though you don't currently play it, Eve is that game.  So financially I couldn't predict whether the exodus, however you categorize it, will have a meaningful impact on CCP on a policy level.

 

uh, hate to break it to you, but I believe its been said that the average lifespan of an MMO account is around 6 months, that means most companies expect almost 10% of active subscribers to quit each month which they hope to replace at the same time with new accounts. So the real question isn't how many are leaving but the ratio of those leaving to those coming in.

Attrition != cancellations

Shouldn't have to spell it out.  I hope no one really wants to argue that everyone who left Eve is a person who would have unsubscribed in six months and not returned in the normal course of business.

Curious, has the number of users logged in gone down at all?

Originally posted by Alioth

Curious, has the number of users logged in gone down at all?

A little bit, but it's summer, and numbers usually drop in the summer.

So they want to add an ingame shop with no game breaking items. Why do people have to overreact

Originally posted by Frostbite05

So they want to add an ingame shop with no game breaking items. Why do people have to overreact

Hi, I also like to read very little about a topic and then make erroneous observations based on what little I know - maybe we can be friends?

This'll probably only make sense to those who have played (and probably only be funny to those who have left) but I figured it was worth it.  I got a good chuckle out of it at least.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hivuFa3hH4

They set a trap indeed :).

Originally posted by Frostbite05

So they want to add an ingame shop with no game breaking items. Why do people have to overreact

Because people's natural inclination is to complain. About anything. They even like to complain about things that haven't happened yet. Even if there are no current plans to implement those things. Even if, down the line from a business standpoint, those things might be necessary to keep the game alive in a changing industry environment.

People also like to proclaim "The game is dying" after they unsub. Of course the game isn't dying, but it makes them feel better to believe so.

Originally posted by Xhieron

Originally posted by Nicoli

Originally posted by Xhieron

To be fair, yes, there's a little hyperbole here--indeed, Eve Online isn't going the way of the dodo any time soon, and many players will feel no impact whatsoever with respect to people who've quit.

 

That said, if 5% of the active subscribers quit, that's massive enough by MMO standards.  That's the kind of attrition you don't expect in a year unless the game is already in long-term decline.  I'm not suggesting that the number of people who have left are 5%, 40%, or 1%, because frankly there just isn't enough reliable data with respect to the number of paying subs.  --people online, sure, but not subs.  If ever there was a game that gave you an incentive to pay even though you don't currently play it, Eve is that game.  So financially I couldn't predict whether the exodus, however you categorize it, will have a meaningful impact on CCP on a policy level.

 

uh, hate to break it to you, but I believe its been said that the average lifespan of an MMO account is around 6 months, that means most companies expect almost 10% of active subscribers to quit each month which they hope to replace at the same time with new accounts. So the real question isn't how many are leaving but the ratio of those leaving to those coming in.

 

Attrition != cancellations

Shouldn't have to spell it out.  I hope no one really wants to argue that everyone who left Eve is a person who would have unsubscribed in six months and not returned in the normal course of business.

No I'm saying that for it to be a massive loss for an MMO its going to be well over the 10% mark. Something that we just haven't seen. If numbers were consistantly now sub 40k at peak times maybe I could see a reason to say there was a massive loss but the reality is it just hasn't been there. This was the initail kicker for Incarna so while its good to have we really haven't seen the true influx of people in once the door unlocks to the station, my guess with the winter expansion. So if the game is trending where it has been for last year it proves really nothing. This was really a kind of "meh" expansion. The expansion that had to happen but wasn't really going to excite anyone new too heavily.