Originally posted by Robsolf

Indeed... it's a pretty sad day for sandbox fans.

CCP, after years of cultivating slow, but steady growth, appears to have forgotten that while some people like to PLAY in the world of "greed is good", few like to LIVE in it.  Even fewer like to be made the victim of it.

Unless they pull a complete 180 regarding what they say and how they say it in the next week, they're on their way to the SWG:NGE promised land.

The funny thing is at it's core "Greed is good" is what EVE is all about so CCP's actions are probably the most EVE like thing they could have done.   CCP is acting like a EVE in game corp.  The problem is like you said  that most players don't have a problem with that in a game but do in real life.  Well that and CCP has the ability to impact the game world/economy way more than any corp or alliance could hope to.

not playing any mmo right now....to me the industry has gone to hell. Having a lot fo fun playing Terarria, Fallout 3 and Elder Scrolls: Oblivion.

Short anser - the true Sandbox gamers have given up.

Games like Sim City, Civilization and even Microsoft Flight Sim offer more of a "Sandbox" than anything an MMO can bring to the table lately.  I'd rather spend time creating my own game within these games than hope, pray and ultimately be disgusted by the next excuse they release as a Sandbox MMO.

 You will have Archeage in the relatively short term.

In the long run...Patience.   The f2p movement is going to have a blow back at some point.  They will not be able to produce AAA quality themepark content without a ton of money which might be seen as risky up front.  Therefore they will try to take the risk out of this by cutting development costs.  In doing so, some dev will look to sandbox model so that players will have tools to entertain themselves and create content without the devs spending big $$ to make content.

Considering that F2p model has created substantial profits for virtually all MMOs so far that have transitioned to it. I highly doubt it. Furthermore, for all the "hate" f2p model gives to players no one ever considers the fact that there are many players who simply do not, or cannot be bothered to spend 39.95 to try out your WoW clone, to be thoroughly dissapointed after a few hours. 

This is especially the case during a global economic recession where players in general have less capital to invest into gaming. Especially subscription based gaming.

When the global economy starts improving and people have more money in their pocket then the shift may change slightly back towards a purchase + subscription model. Though in truth, I highly doubt it, as players would, by that point, view the whole concept as archaic. 

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I come out and say right away, that if I was an MMO gamer that purely likes sandbox MMO's, then I'd be pretty pissed off and frustrated right now.

 

I often say that I find sandbox fans to be more intolerant and show elitist snobism (which is still my opinion, at least on these forums regarding a core of sandbox fans) than other MMO gamers, but on the other hand it's also the case that they have more reason to rant and be frustrated.

The news about CCP and SWG made me think about it: if I look at the MMO scene through the eyes of a pure sandbox fan, then there's little to be happy about, it's a barren wasteland for their gaming preferences. To them, the MMO genre might as well be dead like it is right now.

 

After all, what is there? A few low quality products, the latest one Xsyon showing a lot of potential but with all the problems that come with a dev team that has no money and little team. SWG is like pulling the plug on someone who has been in coma for 5 years now, sad but it wasn't the person you knew anymore anyway. And now EVE Online, the last sandbox bastion in a themepark infested desert, to some seems to go a route away from a true sandbox virtual world with heretical visions from CCP employees that are shown.

 

So, what's left?

ArcheAge might provide a taste of a sandbox based virtual world again, but it also has themepark elements and it shows its Asian influences. Just like not every AAA themepark MMO is liked by a themepark fan, the same way not every AAA sandbox or hybrid  MMO is automatically liked by a sandbox fan. And then you have WoD, but if CCP continues on the way that some suspect they will take, this might have less appeal than it used to have. Besides that, it took years before EVE reached the intricate complex world that it has become right now, it'd be naive to expect WoD to have all that right away at its launch.

 

What's more, it's at least a year waiting and more before any of those 2 sandbox MMO's will arrive on the scene. That's a long wait with no certainty at all that afterwards they find a new MMO home.

 

So, MMO homeless as I suspect most of pure sandbox fans are right now, what are most sandbox fans doing in the meantime?

Trying out non-sandbox MMO's anyway for whatever (little?) enjoyment they can provide?

Having said the MMO genre goodbye (temporarily) and moved on to other interests, singleplayer games maybe?

Or not playing any MMO's right now but hanging around MMO forums, keeping the sandbox torch and name high, like christians in a muslim country, while waiting for the times to change, in some cases having aready waited for years?

First off, kudos for trying to see things from a different perspective. Few ever do.

Secondly, I would like to highlight the fact that this shift towards themepark-style MMOs is exactly what a few people in this thread have already pointed out: a response to market demand.

The issue is that a whole segment of the world's population (see: braindead console mongoloids /pcgamerelitism on) have been turned onto the genre by WoW, which is so easy and simplified as a game that a chimp with down syndrome could play it and win.

This aforementioned segment of the population just happens to have a metric shitton of money btw. And the massive investors backing game companies are salivating over the chance to get their grubby little corporate paws on as much of it as possible. "But how do they plan on doing this?" you may ask... The answer is, of course, by giving them exactly what they want as a demographic: mindlessly oversimplified easymode themeparks.

Honestly, with regards to the future where gaming is concerned (especially MMOs), I see very little light on the horizon.

HOWEVER! All hope is not yet lost. My personal bet lies on Arenanet to turn this ship around, as Guild Wars 2 will be a big step towards bringing innovation back into the genre in a AAA title. Granted, it isnt a pure sandbox (the devs have stated its a hybrid type game with aspects of both sandbox and themepark mixed in), but it seems to be far deeper and more complex than much of its competition. Also, Arenanet has openly stated that the game will be Buy To Play, which for AAA MMO titles has never been tried (if I am not mistaken, all have either worked on a P2P or Microtransaction FTP model).

I have written big long rants in the past, saying how this sort of shift in gaming is due to a similar shift in western society (towards the easy/convenient/flashy/oversimplified and away from anything challenging/complex/deep), but they effectively segway this discussion into a much more expansive one, and I wont derail the thread that much ;)

Darkfall

A tale in the desert (if that is still going)

Project Entropia

Ultima Online

And i am sure there is abunch of indi games out there...

 PERPETUUM

So I hear all the hype about Archeage, which will be a sandbox/themepark hybrid...

...But why wait for that game to come out when Vanguard is already available? At least give the 14-day trial a shot... It's a great game that needs more players. Hell, it deserves more players. The sandbox elements are there. The crafting system is awesome and diplomacy is a nice break from adventuring and crafting when you want it. The graphics are great and the game runs really smooth even on my moderate laptop. Lots of classes and races, big seamless world.

Looking at the feature list, if VG was coming out this year, people would be going absolutely apeshit for it. But because of a bad launch and mismanagement by SOE, it's just chugging along and being neglected by players and developers alike.

Also, everyone who is even remotely interested in videogames should definitely read this article

-> http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-6-most-ominous-trends-in-video-games/ <-

Looking at school for game design in the fall. SWG vet here wishing the age of the sandbox would rise faster, but will study game design and mess with hero cloud service with many friends who have a severe disdain for the current crop of themparks cluddering the landscape of innovation.

No time anymore for MMO's since my study's wont allow for free time. And I'm sick with almost every drab MMO that is out.

Originally posted by headen

Don't forget Mortal Online guys. Dawn just released it was a stellar patc... erm expansion. Lot's of things to do and eat!

lol Did you type that with a straight face??  All you have to do is glance at the official forums to see that statement has false all over it.

First off, kudos for trying to see things from a different perspective. Few ever do.

 

The issue is that a whole segment of the world's population (see: braindead console mongoloids /pcgamerelitism on) have been turned onto the genre by WoW, which is so easy and simplified as a game that a chimp with down syndrome could play it and win.

This aforementioned segment of the population just happens to have a metric shitton of money btw. And the massive investors backing game companies are salivating over the chance to get their grubby little corporate paws on as much of it as possible. "But how do they plan on doing this?" you may ask... The answer is, of course, by giving them exactly what they want as a demographic: mindlessly oversimplified easymode themeparks.

 

 

 

Wow man. :P

after what ccp has done to us and decided to ignor ethe community. And something tells me sony has a part in this, but my sand is starting to vanish from my box. This is nothing else out their fun, wat xsyon..lets wait 5 months for a simple patch...u say DF lets mindlessly grind away skills with macros tehn watch the cartoon graphics n crappy gameplay (no ofense to those playing it but its jsut my opinion of the game) Arche looks fun but u can truely do in that game what you can in games like eve and xsyon, where its a 100% player driven and crafted world. So that being said and nothing new coming out if ccp doesnt change what their doing then i am finally done with all MMO's, because it seems no matter how good the company is greed always comes in the destroys everything. just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

Darkfall.  Its the red headed stepchild of the MMO world that won't go away.

My thoughts exactly. It's the only decent sandbox on the market but only if you can handle full loot pvp. 

Originally posted by Chewybunny

First off, kudos for trying to see things from a different perspective. Few ever do.

 

The issue is that a whole segment of the world's population (see: braindead console mongoloids /pcgamerelitism on) have been turned onto the genre by WoW, which is so easy and simplified as a game that a chimp with down syndrome could play it and win.

This aforementioned segment of the population just happens to have a metric shitton of money btw. And the massive investors backing game companies are salivating over the chance to get their grubby little corporate paws on as much of it as possible. "But how do they plan on doing this?" you may ask... The answer is, of course, by giving them exactly what they want as a demographic: mindlessly oversimplified easymode themeparks.

 

 

 

Wow man. :P

*bows*

I am an eloquent and convincing motherf#cker, am I not?

I too find myself in the same predicament waiting for  the shineing light  the path of illumination the holy grail a decent non F2P but a B2P/P2P with old school values,devs that care and interact a community that that does not want to zerg kill or chase ever increaseing phat lootz. or pretty up their toons with a parrot cause it's kinda cool looking with ever increaseing game currency which just pertains to been ripped off.

Like many on here i've been finding solace in single player stuff even went through torture to get Morrowind modded now Oblivion will keep my modded game lust sated,but hopefully that holy grail is around the atm far eastern corner even GW2 will in essence only be  different with the dynamic quests i'm pretty sure it's gonna be 90% themepark as per usual.

But as far as catching  that sight of that elusive sandbox well your more likely to find a doc pepper machine in the middle of the Kalahari,yep at this present moment it's a mirage it will be damn satisfying if u do find that  drink but atm the drink is an empty bottle and nothing is going to refresh the lads and  lasses of the same mind-set.

Here are my  if u like holy grails Archeage,TSW,WOD,Copernicus SWG-pre CU emu (circa 2020 for this one).

Albeit not a lot had high hopes for Xsyon and Mortal Online seems to be in decline and going downhill faster than a Olympic skier.Longterm have tested Dawntide and After world  but these games have been in existance and development since Jurassic times  a bloody long time.!!

Things will turn around for sandbox fans when devs finally realize that sandbox does not have to mean full loot pvp.

Originally posted by Alders

Things will turn around for sandbox fans when devs finally realize that sandbox does not have to mean full loot pvp.

Hear hear!  Yeah, still waiting on that hehe. It's been years. Hopefully some developer somewhere will get that through their head eventually.

I just wanted to say that SWG hasnt been a sandbox for years. It shutting down medio december this year will have no impact whatsoever on the sandbox side of our genre.

Originally posted by Jonsus

Originally posted by Chewybunny

First off, kudos for trying to see things from a different perspective. Few ever do.

 

The issue is that a whole segment of the world's population (see: braindead console mongoloids /pcgamerelitism on) have been turned onto the genre by WoW, which is so easy and simplified as a game that a chimp with down syndrome could play it and win.

This aforementioned segment of the population just happens to have a metric shitton of money btw. And the massive investors backing game companies are salivating over the chance to get their grubby little corporate paws on as much of it as possible. "But how do they plan on doing this?" you may ask... The answer is, of course, by giving them exactly what they want as a demographic: mindlessly oversimplified easymode themeparks.

 

 

 

Wow man. :P

*bows*

I am an eloquent and convincing motherf#cker, am I not?

If not a hypocritical one, yes, absolutely.