Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Firefall | H1Z1 | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,852,021 Users Online:0
Games:733  Posts:6,226,540
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

General Discussion  » SWG shutting down Dec. 15th

10 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Last Search
191 posts found
  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 9:23:11 PM#101
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Thtas the problem. Those who were playing SWG during that time really were oblivious to its problems. A couple of the developers have said subscribers around the time of the CU were around 200k and dropping at a rate of 10k a month. CU stabalized those numbers a bit, but they started goind down again. Hence the decision to launch the NGE.

You people think the game was fine at that time. It wasnt financially healthy. Those are facts. They were not "chasing" WoW players. They were trying to financially save their game. 

The roots to SWG problems were design choices made during initial development.  Some of you feel the need to vilify SoE or LA because if the changes to the game, the real blame, and reason for SWG issues are intital design choices. 

SWG was a poorly conceieved and designed sandbox game, which failed on multiple levels to maintain financial viability. THATS WHY ALL THE CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE GAME. Thats a fact, backed by multiple developers statements about the reasons for all the changes to the game during that period.

Every other, tin foil hat, opinion counter to those facts, are just nonsense and hot air.

  Benthon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 2132

Even if you can't hear me, you're still wrong.

6/24/11 9:29:50 PM#102
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

 Not to nitpick and derail, but WoW" playerbase was only 3.75 million at the time NGE released, which was only a year after WoW itself released. It didn't hit 8million until almost WotLK.

He who keeps his cool best wins.

  Dreamion

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 281

6/24/11 9:32:34 PM#103

"SHUT IT DOWN!"

  User Deleted
6/24/11 9:55:05 PM#104
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Thtas the problem. Those who were playing SWG during that time really were oblivious to its problems. A couple of the developers have said subscribers around the time of the CU were around 200k and dropping at a rate of 10k a month. CU stabalized those numbers a bit, but they started goind down again. Hence the decision to launch the NGE.

You people think the game was fine at that time. It wasnt financially healthy. Those are facts. They were not "chasing" WoW players. They were trying to financially save their game. 

The roots to SWG problems were design choices made during initial development.  Some of you feel the need to vilify SoE or LA because if the changes to the game, the real blame, and reason for SWG issues are intital design choices. 

SWG was a poorly conceieved and designed sandbox game, which failed on multiple levels to maintain financial viability. THATS WHY ALL THE CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE GAME. Thats a fact, backed by multiple developers statements about the reasons for all the changes to the game during that period.

Every other, tin foil hat, opinion counter to those facts, are just nonsense and hot air.

 Spoken like someone who not only never played the game back then, but also happily swallows the lies that SOE spews.

Anarchy Online just hit it's 10 year anniversary, and it's never had more subs than SWG did at it's peak. It has never had to completely restructure to cater to the mainstream in order to "save the game".

No, SOE were scratching their heads over the fact that their game, based on the Star Wars IP, only had a quarter million subs, while the most popular MMORPG in the industry had millions and was based on a relatively little known IP.

They threw out the baby with the bathwater, and it bit them in the ass.

No amount of excuses, or corporate mealy-mouthed double-talk can hide the truth. It is as plain as day.

I work for a rather large corporation myself, and I see this kind of crap all the time. I've seen resets that spit in the face of the current customer base in an effort to attract the 16-24 year old mainstream demographic. And when it doesn't work out, they always come up with excuses in an effort to save their miserable jobs.

This was nothing but corporate greed, period.

  User Deleted
6/24/11 9:59:28 PM#105
Originally posted by Benthon
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

 Not to nitpick and derail, but WoW" playerbase was only 3.75 million at the time NGE released, which was only a year after WoW itself released. It didn't hit 8million until almost WotLK.

 ya know, I think you are right. I looked back and it seems I had my timeline incorrect. Guess you can tell I never played WoW, eh?

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

6/24/11 10:01:03 PM#106
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Thtas the problem. Those who were playing SWG during that time really were oblivious to its problems. A couple of the developers have said subscribers around the time of the CU were around 200k and dropping at a rate of 10k a month. CU stabalized those numbers a bit, but they started goind down again. Hence the decision to launch the NGE.

You people think the game was fine at that time. It wasnt financially healthy. Those are facts. They were not "chasing" WoW players. They were trying to financially save their game. 

The roots to SWG problems were design choices made during initial development.  Some of you feel the need to vilify SoE or LA because if the changes to the game, the real blame, and reason for SWG issues are intital design choices. 

SWG was a poorly conceieved and designed sandbox game, which failed on multiple levels to maintain financial viability. THATS WHY ALL THE CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE GAME. Thats a fact, backed by multiple developers statements about the reasons for all the changes to the game during that period.

Every other, tin foil hat, opinion counter to those facts, are just nonsense and hot air.

The numbers you keep using for around the CU are actually the numbers from the time of the NGE.  They come from Dan Rubenfield's blog post.  The numbers around the CU were in the 225k-250k range and got close to 300k after the CU.  Then, after everyone realized the CU was crap, the 10k per month bleeding began and the NGE came along and took out 1/2 to 3/4 of the remaining playerbase at once.  The numbers continued to dwindle to the point today where they are low enough to warrant cancellation of the game.

The game wasn't bleeding subs prior to the CU, but it wasn't growing either.  The CU gave a brief bump and led to the bleeding numbers.  SOE responded by trying to replace the entire existing playerbase with a mythical new one that was in the millions.  One that never materialized, mainly because the NGE was, and is, horribly unfun and broken.

 

  VonTakala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 195

Wookiee. Jetpack. Lifeday moomoo. Flying into the SWG sunset on Lok.

 
OP  6/24/11 10:01:05 PM#107
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Thtas the problem. Those who were playing SWG during that time really were oblivious to its problems. A couple of the developers have said subscribers around the time of the CU were around 200k and dropping at a rate of 10k a month. CU stabalized those numbers a bit, but they started goind down again. Hence the decision to launch the NGE.

You people think the game was fine at that time. It wasnt financially healthy. Those are facts. They were not "chasing" WoW players. They were trying to financially save their game. 

The roots to SWG problems were design choices made during initial development.  Some of you feel the need to vilify SoE or LA because if the changes to the game, the real blame, and reason for SWG issues are intital design choices. 

SWG was a poorly conceieved and designed sandbox game, which failed on multiple levels to maintain financial viability. THATS WHY ALL THE CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE GAME. Thats a fact, backed by multiple developers statements about the reasons for all the changes to the game during that period.

Every other, tin foil hat, opinion counter to those facts, are just nonsense and hot air.

 Spoken like someone who not only never played the game back then, but also happily swallows the lies that SOE spews.

Anarchy Online just hit it's 10 year anniversary, and it's never had more subs than SWG did at it's peak. It has never had to completely restructure to cater to the mainstream in order to "save the game".

No, SOE were scratching their heads over the fact that their game, based on the Star Wars IP, only had a quarter million subs, while the most popular MMORPG in the industry had millions and was based on a relatively little known IP.

They threw out the baby with the bathwater, and it bit them in the ass.

No amount of excuses, or corporate mealy-mouthed double-talk can hide the truth. It is as plain as day.

I work for a rather large corporation myself, and I see this kind of crap all the time. I've seen resets that spit in the face of the current customer base in an effort to attract the 16-24 year old mainstream demographic. And when it doesn't work out, they always come up with excuses in an effort to save their miserable jobs.

This was nothing but corporate greed, period.

 

Yes and if the NGE caused some trouble, remember that SWTOR will be NGE 2.0, it's the same mindset that's creating SWTOR that undermined the original SWG.

  User Deleted
6/24/11 10:07:01 PM#108
Originally posted by aktalat
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Thtas the problem. Those who were playing SWG during that time really were oblivious to its problems. A couple of the developers have said subscribers around the time of the CU were around 200k and dropping at a rate of 10k a month. CU stabalized those numbers a bit, but they started goind down again. Hence the decision to launch the NGE.

You people think the game was fine at that time. It wasnt financially healthy. Those are facts. They were not "chasing" WoW players. They were trying to financially save their game. 

The roots to SWG problems were design choices made during initial development.  Some of you feel the need to vilify SoE or LA because if the changes to the game, the real blame, and reason for SWG issues are intital design choices. 

SWG was a poorly conceieved and designed sandbox game, which failed on multiple levels to maintain financial viability. THATS WHY ALL THE CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE GAME. Thats a fact, backed by multiple developers statements about the reasons for all the changes to the game during that period.

Every other, tin foil hat, opinion counter to those facts, are just nonsense and hot air.

 Spoken like someone who not only never played the game back then, but also happily swallows the lies that SOE spews.

Anarchy Online just hit it's 10 year anniversary, and it's never had more subs than SWG did at it's peak. It has never had to completely restructure to cater to the mainstream in order to "save the game".

No, SOE were scratching their heads over the fact that their game, based on the Star Wars IP, only had a quarter million subs, while the most popular MMORPG in the industry had millions and was based on a relatively little known IP.

They threw out the baby with the bathwater, and it bit them in the ass.

No amount of excuses, or corporate mealy-mouthed double-talk can hide the truth. It is as plain as day.

I work for a rather large corporation myself, and I see this kind of crap all the time. I've seen resets that spit in the face of the current customer base in an effort to attract the 16-24 year old mainstream demographic. And when it doesn't work out, they always come up with excuses in an effort to save their miserable jobs.

This was nothing but corporate greed, period.

 

Yes and if the NGE caused some trouble, remember that SWTOR will be NGE 2.0, it's the same mindset that's creating SWTOR that undermined the original SWG.

Yeah only ToR is actually fun to play...

  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 10:09:44 PM#109
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Thtas the problem. Those who were playing SWG during that time really were oblivious to its problems. A couple of the developers have said subscribers around the time of the CU were around 200k and dropping at a rate of 10k a month. CU stabalized those numbers a bit, but they started goind down again. Hence the decision to launch the NGE.

You people think the game was fine at that time. It wasnt financially healthy. Those are facts. They were not "chasing" WoW players. They were trying to financially save their game. 

The roots to SWG problems were design choices made during initial development.  Some of you feel the need to vilify SoE or LA because if the changes to the game, the real blame, and reason for SWG issues are intital design choices. 

SWG was a poorly conceieved and designed sandbox game, which failed on multiple levels to maintain financial viability. THATS WHY ALL THE CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE GAME. Thats a fact, backed by multiple developers statements about the reasons for all the changes to the game during that period.

Every other, tin foil hat, opinion counter to those facts, are just nonsense and hot air.

 Spoken like someone who not only never played the game back then, but also happily swallows the lies that SOE spews.

Anarchy Online just hit it's 10 year anniversary, and it's never had more subs than SWG did at it's peak. It has never had to completely restructure to cater to the mainstream in order to "save the game".

No, SOE were scratching their heads over the fact that their game, based on the Star Wars IP, only had a quarter million subs, while the most popular MMORPG in the industry had millions and was based on a relatively little known IP.

They threw out the baby with the bathwater, and it bit them in the ass.

No amount of excuses, or corporate mealy-mouthed double-talk can hide the truth. It is as plain as day.

I work for a rather large corporation myself, and I see this kind of crap all the time. I've seen resets that spit in the face of the current customer base in an effort to attract the 16-24 year old mainstream demographic. And when it doesn't work out, they always come up with excuses in an effort to save their miserable jobs.

This was nothing but corporate greed, period.

Well, you are wrong. I played, and left, well prior to the CU and NGE. I left because it was a badly designed game with the only saving grace being the really great community.

 

The games and companies are in it to make money. I am not sure how this is just not an accepted certaintiy for a for profit business. 

 

The problem is people like you refuse to accept the fact the pre CU SWG was losing players. They were falling at a substatial enough rate for a company to make said changes.  The developers who have comented about what transpired in that time period have lonf since left SOE and the dev team.  

 

Nothing to refute the multiple instances of factual developer commnets post mortem, just blind hate being spewed under the well worn out guise of "corporate greed" as the basis to back claims. Life isnt that simple. If you choose to not believe the truth, and put on your tin foil hat and contine to parrot the same tired cliches that all the old vets use when looking back at SWG through their rose colered glases, then you will continue to look as much the fool now, as you did back then.

 

  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 10:14:51 PM#110
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Thtas the problem. Those who were playing SWG during that time really were oblivious to its problems. A couple of the developers have said subscribers around the time of the CU were around 200k and dropping at a rate of 10k a month. CU stabalized those numbers a bit, but they started goind down again. Hence the decision to launch the NGE.

You people think the game was fine at that time. It wasnt financially healthy. Those are facts. They were not "chasing" WoW players. They were trying to financially save their game. 

The roots to SWG problems were design choices made during initial development.  Some of you feel the need to vilify SoE or LA because if the changes to the game, the real blame, and reason for SWG issues are intital design choices. 

SWG was a poorly conceieved and designed sandbox game, which failed on multiple levels to maintain financial viability. THATS WHY ALL THE CHANGES WERE MADE TO THE GAME. Thats a fact, backed by multiple developers statements about the reasons for all the changes to the game during that period.

Every other, tin foil hat, opinion counter to those facts, are just nonsense and hot air.

The numbers you keep using for around the CU are actually the numbers from the time of the NGE.  They come from Dan Rubenfield's blog post.  The numbers around the CU were in the 225k-250k range and got close to 300k after the CU.  Then, after everyone realized the CU was crap, the 10k per month bleeding began and the NGE came along and took out 1/2 to 3/4 of the remaining playerbase at once.  The numbers continued to dwindle to the point today where they are low enough to warrant cancellation of the game.

The game wasn't bleeding subs prior to the CU, but it wasn't growing either.  The CU gave a brief bump and led to the bleeding numbers.  SOE responded by trying to replace the entire existing playerbase with a mythical new one that was in the millions.  One that never materialized, mainly because the NGE was, and is, horribly unfun and broken.

 

There are other comments form other developers. Its not hard to find them all. To a man, they have said that SWG was bleeding subscribers prior to CU. CU was meant as a first step to stablaize the financial slope the game was moving. Then came NGE.

SWG whole existence is an example of bad game design. The original design was highly flawed, and the decisions after to fix it were just as bad.

From start to finish its was just a poor endeavour.

 

  User Deleted
6/24/11 10:15:43 PM#111
Originally posted by aktalat

 

Yes and if the NGE caused some trouble, remember that SWTOR will be NGE 2.0, it's the same mindset that's creating SWTOR that undermined the original SWG.

 Nooooooooooo.

TOR is KOTOR + multiplayer.

 

The "mindset" behind the NGE, as Nancy Macintyre "explained" it, was this:

"There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

 

SWTOR is NOT NGE 2.0.....Bioware "gets it". SOE does not.

  Comnitus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 2509

Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

6/24/11 10:17:25 PM#112
Originally posted by aktalat

 Yes and if the NGE caused some trouble, remember that SWTOR will be NGE 2.0, it's the same mindset that's creating SWTOR that undermined the original SWG.

You know how BioWare could screw TOR completely? By turning it into a sandbox after advertising it as a story-focused mostly themepark, slightly sandbox hybrid.

Chew on that for a while.

  Burntvet

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2747

6/24/11 10:22:16 PM#113
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by aktalat

 

Yes and if the NGE caused some trouble, remember that SWTOR will be NGE 2.0, it's the same mindset that's creating SWTOR that undermined the original SWG.

 Nooooooooooo.

TOR is KOTOR + multiplayer.

 

The "mindset" behind the NGE, as Nancy Macintyre "explained" it, was this:

"There was lots of reading, much too much, in the game. There was a lot of wandering around learning about different abilities. We really needed to give people the experience of being Han Solo or Luke Skywalker rather than being Uncle Owen, the moisture farmer. We wanted more instant gratification: kill, get treasure, repeat. We needed to give people more of an opportunity to be a part of what they have seen in the movies rather than something they had created themselves."

 

SWTOR is NOT NGE 2.0.....Bioware "gets it". SOE does not.

Ah yes, "Too Much Reading" Nancy. Classic stuff, right here, and nothing the revisionists can refute.

Between this and the infamous unedited Rubenfeld "om-nom-nom" blog, you get a real feeling for what was going on, and what they thought of their customers.

 

  Thorqemada

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1202

6/24/11 10:23:38 PM#114


Originally posted by xx19kilosold


Originally posted by Blutmaul
 



Originally posted by xx19kilosold




Originally posted by Obee





Originally posted by xx19kilosold






Originally posted by Obee






Originally posted by xx19kilosold






Originally posted by Obee






Originally posted by xx19kilosold






Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha






Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.
 
Not many SWG fans will like TOR





 This is correct.
TOR will be as big a fail as STO.
SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:
 
Space ships on rails.
No Player Bounty System.
No Real Crafting.
ETC.
 
LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.





Nonsense.
Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.
SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.
Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.
 
 





The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.
Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.
 





Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.
 
Google it, its aq well know FACT.





 
No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).
Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).
Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.
 
 





It is revisionist.
Known fact:
SWG was losing subscribers at a fast enough pace for them to first produce the CU to address concerns and stave off the bleeding. That did not work so coupled with LA, a choice was made to forever alter the base foundation (NGE) to try and stop the massive loss of players.
 
The revisionist history is usually dolled out by the die hard "Sandbox fanboys" in an attempt to place blame on everything but a poorly made sandbox game.
 
The game mechanics were bad, the sandbox design was bad. From the very beginning. It wasnt some evil corporation that came in a "butchered" SWG. They were trying to save the game from the errors of going complete sandbox mostly, but also some of the other flaws in the game THAT BLEED OF SUBSCRIBERS WAY BEFORE CU.





Originally, the idea was to implement the CURB, which was intended to improve upon the existing game systems using input by the existing playerbase, with the intent of improving the game and the sub numbers.  The CU replaced the original CURB idea, and nobody has any idea where it came from or why it was done, or at least nobody is willing to admit it.  The CU broke numerous core game systems, primarily the profession based character development system.  It seems to have been intended to make the game play more like WoW, which was recently released and had the sub numbers SWG was supposed to have had.  It wasn't a result of bleeding sub numbers.
The game reached its highest number of concurrent subscribers after the CU, but those numbers began to quickly bleed out.
Prior to the CU, it has always been said that the retention numbers from box sales were poor, but that the game population was stable.  Basically, they were sewlling enough boxes to cover the number of players who were cancelling.
The primary reason for cancellations was the lack of content.  The changes the dev team made to the game were all based on core game mechanics.  It wasn't a corporate conspiricy that killed the game, it was incompetent developers and managers.  The developers made bad decisions and the managers approved the bad decisions, while ignoring the actual problems the game had.
Prior to the CU, SWG was the number two MMO on the market after EQ.  It never achieved the success that EQ had, but it wasn't a failure, nor was it bleeding subs.  It was after WoW came along and because a huge success that the idea that SWG was somehow a failure prior to the CU came about.
 




I know it is stil normal for some to "act" like everything was "fine" with SWG prior to the CU. It has been stated in post mortem interviews with the developers involved that was not the case. Multiple developers had stated that subscriber numbers were dropping. Then studies were done to find the source of most discontent among the players leaving. Combat mechanics and some of the "core" sandbox features were deemed to be the biggest issues facing retention of CURRENT subscribers.
The bottom line is that SWG was not fine prior to CU. Especially for the amount of money at that time, that was put into development. They could not afford to cater to the ultra loud 100k or so minority that loved the "sandbox". 
Its sandbox design was its downfall in the end. I know that statement hurts to the sandbox lovers out there, but in the end, its the truth.
 
 



 
SWG had quite stable 300k to 250k subscribers until the NGE hit, dont talk about things about stuff you have no clue about!
Source:
http://www.mmodata.net/


Funny stuff.
 
Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.
 
I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

The reason for all this statements is nothing else then afterward justification for bad decisions - to blame something else then themself!

Common human behavior...

To me it is more exciting that the same time there was a major release of a mmo, with patches that were seen as not appropriate to solve the problems they ONLY bleed this few subs!

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
MWO Machinima - Revival (Clan Invasion): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saheVNMp7qQ

  User Deleted
6/24/11 10:24:48 PM#115
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Well, you are wrong. I played, and left, well prior to the CU and NGE. I left because it was a badly designed game with the only saving grace being the really great community.

I played from just after release to about six months after the NGE, and still sometimes play for a month even now just to upkeep my buildings and look at some of the stuff I collected.

Point: I was there. You were not.

 

The games and companies are in it to make money. I am not sure how this is just not an accepted certaintiy for a for profit business. 

 And yet, down below, you contradict yourself by saying:

 

Nothing to refute the multiple instances of factual developer commnets post mortem, just blind hate being spewed under the well worn out guise of "corporate greed" as the basis to back claims.

So which is it?? Were they "in it to make money", or was their greed some kind of illusion?? I say the former. But here's a lesson from a person who has been in business for two decades now; you don't shit on your customers. EVER. You do what you can within reason to attract new ones, while treating the ones you have like gold.

 

 

  hovis8

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 22

6/24/11 10:24:53 PM#116
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 They changed the game to stem the bleeding,really!.If what you seem to  think is true, they failed to stem it big time.

{mod edit}

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4605

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

6/24/11 10:30:16 PM#117

you guys really need to cut it out with this game perception pattern.

 

"game will be awesome."

"game is great, I don't know what you're talking about."

"game's great, we don't need you."

"game has a lot of potetial. Give it time."

"how to save the game."

"game population at all-time low."

"what the game could've been."

"game closing. shame, it had so much potential".

 

we'll see how great it is once it comes out. meanwhile let's focus on SWG which actually is out, m'kay?

  Acebets70

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/08/11
Posts: 202

6/24/11 10:30:50 PM#118

Troneas and SWGmod  you guys rock!!!!

Ummm SWGmod  is correct  TOR crafting?  dont make me  laugh wont even come close to how good swg was....

Mr. Smedley can i please please please hit the off button?  pweez!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 10:31:14 PM#119
Originally posted by Blutmaul

 


Originally posted by xx19kilosold


Originally posted by Blutmaul
 



Originally posted by xx19kilosold




Originally posted by Obee





Originally posted by xx19kilosold






Originally posted by Obee






Originally posted by xx19kilosold






Originally posted by Obee






Originally posted by xx19kilosold






Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha






Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.
 
Not many SWG fans will like TOR





 This is correct.
TOR will be as big a fail as STO.
SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:
 
Space ships on rails.
No Player Bounty System.
No Real Crafting.
ETC.
 
LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.





Nonsense.
Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.
SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.
Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.
 
 





The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.
Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.
 





Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.
 
Google it, its aq well know FACT.





 
No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).
Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).
Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.
 
 





It is revisionist.
Known fact:
SWG was losing subscribers at a fast enough pace for them to first produce the CU to address concerns and stave off the bleeding. That did not work so coupled with LA, a choice was made to forever alter the base foundation (NGE) to try and stop the massive loss of players.
 
The revisionist history is usually dolled out by the die hard "Sandbox fanboys" in an attempt to place blame on everything but a poorly made sandbox game.
 
The game mechanics were bad, the sandbox design was bad. From the very beginning. It wasnt some evil corporation that came in a "butchered" SWG. They were trying to save the game from the errors of going complete sandbox mostly, but also some of the other flaws in the game THAT BLEED OF SUBSCRIBERS WAY BEFORE CU.





Originally, the idea was to implement the CURB, which was intended to improve upon the existing game systems using input by the existing playerbase, with the intent of improving the game and the sub numbers.  The CU replaced the original CURB idea, and nobody has any idea where it came from or why it was done, or at least nobody is willing to admit it.  The CU broke numerous core game systems, primarily the profession based character development system.  It seems to have been intended to make the game play more like WoW, which was recently released and had the sub numbers SWG was supposed to have had.  It wasn't a result of bleeding sub numbers.
The game reached its highest number of concurrent subscribers after the CU, but those numbers began to quickly bleed out.
Prior to the CU, it has always been said that the retention numbers from box sales were poor, but that the game population was stable.  Basically, they were sewlling enough boxes to cover the number of players who were cancelling.
The primary reason for cancellations was the lack of content.  The changes the dev team made to the game were all based on core game mechanics.  It wasn't a corporate conspiricy that killed the game, it was incompetent developers and managers.  The developers made bad decisions and the managers approved the bad decisions, while ignoring the actual problems the game had.
Prior to the CU, SWG was the number two MMO on the market after EQ.  It never achieved the success that EQ had, but it wasn't a failure, nor was it bleeding subs.  It was after WoW came along and because a huge success that the idea that SWG was somehow a failure prior to the CU came about.
 




I know it is stil normal for some to "act" like everything was "fine" with SWG prior to the CU. It has been stated in post mortem interviews with the developers involved that was not the case. Multiple developers had stated that subscriber numbers were dropping. Then studies were done to find the source of most discontent among the players leaving. Combat mechanics and some of the "core" sandbox features were deemed to be the biggest issues facing retention of CURRENT subscribers.
The bottom line is that SWG was not fine prior to CU. Especially for the amount of money at that time, that was put into development. They could not afford to cater to the ultra loud 100k or so minority that loved the "sandbox". 
Its sandbox design was its downfall in the end. I know that statement hurts to the sandbox lovers out there, but in the end, its the truth.
 
 



 
SWG had quite stable 300k to 250k subscribers until the NGE hit, dont talk about things about stuff you have no clue about!
Source:
http://www.mmodata.net/



Funny stuff.
 
Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.
 
I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.


 

The reason for all this statements is nothing else then afterward justification for bad decisions - to blame something else then themself!

Common human behavior...

To me it is more exciting that the same time there was a major release of a mmo, with patches that were seen as not appropriate to solve the problems they ONLY bleed this few subs!

Meh. No point in arguing. The rose colored glass effect is especially high in the pre CU SWG playerbase. 

 

SWG was a bad game from launch. It did have a great community, but was no doubt a poorly designed game from the start.

That is what led to its demise. Its simple.

As for the discrediting of the statements made by the developers post mortem, well, they all to a tee, where prefaced by "WE messed up bad"

Giving the reasons and decision making behind those mistakes deos not equal trying to "justify" them.

You all will forever look for that answer and reason you want, instead of just accepting the truth.

I feel like Im just rubbing salt in fresh wounds here. Its not my intent, just thought this community has moved beyond the "group think" blanket blaming NGE and CU for the games downfall and instead had moved on enough to see the writing was on the wall when they chose a sandbox game coupled with poor core game mechanics as the real and only logical reason this game failed in such an epic way.

  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 10:38:15 PM#120
Originally posted by Wharg0ul
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Well, you are wrong. I played, and left, well prior to the CU and NGE. I left because it was a badly designed game with the only saving grace being the really great community.

I played from just after release to about six months after the NGE, and still sometimes play for a month even now just to upkeep my buildings and look at some of the stuff I collected.

Point: I was there. You were not.

 

The games and companies are in it to make money. I am not sure how this is just not an accepted certaintiy for a for profit business. 

 And yet, down below, you contradict yourself by saying:

 

Nothing to refute the multiple instances of factual developer commnets post mortem, just blind hate being spewed under the well worn out guise of "corporate greed" as the basis to back claims.

So which is it?? Were they "in it to make money", or was their greed some kind of illusion?? I say the former. But here's a lesson from a person who has been in business for two decades now; you don't shit on your customers. EVER. You do what you can within reason to attract new ones, while treating the ones you have like gold.

 

 

{mod edit}

The whole premise behind a segment of the pre NGE crowd is soley based in "corporate greed" and are incapable of thinking logicaly at how and why a company needs to mantain their bottomline.

 

The logic behind your line of thought is that : regardless of anything else, they shoul manitain the game because "I" play it.

Its stupid, and counter to basic capitalistic concpets. That was my point. You have to do better than "corporate greed" when presented with facts as a response.

 

{mod edit}

10 Pages First « 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 » Last Search