This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

Originally posted by Dedthom

Originally posted by donjuanagain

At the end of the day, it doesnt matter what the CU or NGE did. This game is shutting down and thats that. All you people can sit here and argue back and worth on this forum and its not going to accomplish anything. Everyones opinions are worthless and the only real FACT is that SWG is closing. Done deal.

 You are wise beyond your years.

In a way, yes, but what else would you do with a game that's going to die except look at its history and try to define where it went wrong? That's called retrospect, and it's healthy (so long as you don't become "trapped" in the past).

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

That girl really loves Star Wars Galaxies.

This game died in 2005 with the combat upgrade.. it just didnt know it

I feel bad for the community. I played SWG when it first came out and it was not the game for me, but that does not mean it was a bad game at that time. No one makes games (or much of anything else) out of love anymore, it is all about the $$$.

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

But possibly not in the manner you mean...

I quit after the NGE. However, the times I had during Pre-CU... priceless.

I'm sad.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by AzurePrower

 

---

Originally posted by Troneas

---

This brought a smile to my face. Thank you good sir.

Yup.

Still think we "old time vets" are haters?

SOE has no happy customers, just future disgruntled ones. And no loyalty to any customer.

They did it to "our" SWG and now are putting yours down.

Not like we didn't warn you.

What this guy said ^^

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

But possibly not in the manner you mean...

 

Depends...how do you think I mean it?! lol

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

But possibly not in the manner you mean...

 

Depends...how do you think I mean it?! lol

I think you meant sad as in we should feel sympathy for that poor girl. "Sad" also means pathetic.

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

But possibly not in the manner you mean...

 

Depends...how do you think I mean it?! lol

I think you meant sad as in we should feel sympathy for that poor girl. "Sad" also means pathetic.

Yeah, what he said.

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

But possibly not in the manner you mean...

 

Depends...how do you think I mean it?! lol

I think you meant sad as in we should feel sympathy for that poor girl. "Sad" also means pathetic.

Yeah, what he said.

 

You gotta love words that have 2 meanings so completely opposite like "sad" does. I'll leave it to the viewers to decide which meaning they attribute to it.

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

someone needs to send that to smed.

im serious.

while it hasnt been my game for a very, very long time.  i can appreciate the connections people make with each other in that game.  especially in the rp community.  the rp community there is one of the best ive ever seen in any game.

i think the real issue here, as someone mentioned, while they might make roughly a million a month on the game.  you also have to remember that they have to share that with lucasarts.  while nobody in public probably knows the over under on that deal.  if its something crazy like 50/50.....  well, 500k  a month barely pays to keep the game running and the devs in pay, benefits, insurance, workman's comp etc...

whats sad about this whole thing, is this.

and i know you guys dont want to hear this now.

but if they had just frakking rolled back to pre nge, they would have seen a serious jump in subscriptions.

its a sad day for me.  i thought koster's original design was genius.  i mean look at my sig for god sakes.  its likely that we'll never see an mmo of this scale with raph's name on it ever again.  

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by TUX426

This is so sad...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWb3cxA4g_U&feature=player_embedded

But possibly not in the manner you mean...

 

Depends...how do you think I mean it?! lol

I think you meant sad as in we should feel sympathy for that poor girl. "Sad" also means pathetic.

Yeah, what he said.

 

You gotta love words that have 2 meanings so completely opposite like "sad" does. I'll leave it to the viewers to decide which meaning they attribute to it.

Don't get me wrong, if you intended sympathy, which I believe you did (and would also believe you if you say you didn't), you're a better person than I am.  Watching it, i went from wondering if the chick with all the moles was topless to having "Leave Brittany Alone!!!!" flashbacks.

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by Obee

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by Obee

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by Obee

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha

---

Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.
 
Not many SWG fans will like TOR

---

 This is correct.
TOR will be as big a fail as STO.
SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:
 
Space ships on rails.
No Player Bounty System.
No Real Crafting.
ETC.
 
LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

---

Nonsense.
Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.
SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.
Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.
 
 

---

The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.
Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.
 

---

Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.
 
Google it, its aq well know FACT.

---

 
No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).
Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).
Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.
 
 

---

It is revisionist.
Known fact:
SWG was losing subscribers at a fast enough pace for them to first produce the CU to address concerns and stave off the bleeding. That did not work so coupled with LA, a choice was made to forever alter the base foundation (NGE) to try and stop the massive loss of players.
 
The revisionist history is usually dolled out by the die hard "Sandbox fanboys" in an attempt to place blame on everything but a poorly made sandbox game.
 
The game mechanics were bad, the sandbox design was bad. From the very beginning. It wasnt some evil corporation that came in a "butchered" SWG. They were trying to save the game from the errors of going complete sandbox mostly, but also some of the other flaws in the game THAT BLEED OF SUBSCRIBERS WAY BEFORE CU.

---

Originally, the idea was to implement the CURB, which was intended to improve upon the existing game systems using input by the existing playerbase, with the intent of improving the game and the sub numbers.  The CU replaced the original CURB idea, and nobody has any idea where it came from or why it was done, or at least nobody is willing to admit it.  The CU broke numerous core game systems, primarily the profession based character development system.  It seems to have been intended to make the game play more like WoW, which was recently released and had the sub numbers SWG was supposed to have had.  It wasn't a result of bleeding sub numbers.
The game reached its highest number of concurrent subscribers after the CU, but those numbers began to quickly bleed out.
Prior to the CU, it has always been said that the retention numbers from box sales were poor, but that the game population was stable.  Basically, they were sewlling enough boxes to cover the number of players who were cancelling.
The primary reason for cancellations was the lack of content.  The changes the dev team made to the game were all based on core game mechanics.  It wasn't a corporate conspiricy that killed the game, it was incompetent developers and managers.  The developers made bad decisions and the managers approved the bad decisions, while ignoring the actual problems the game had.
Prior to the CU, SWG was the number two MMO on the market after EQ.  It never achieved the success that EQ had, but it wasn't a failure, nor was it bleeding subs.  It was after WoW came along and because a huge success that the idea that SWG was somehow a failure prior to the CU came about.
 

---

I know it is stil normal for some to "act" like everything was "fine" with SWG prior to the CU. It has been stated in post mortem interviews with the developers involved that was not the case. Multiple developers had stated that subscriber numbers were dropping. Then studies were done to find the source of most discontent among the players leaving. Combat mechanics and some of the "core" sandbox features were deemed to be the biggest issues facing retention of CURRENT subscribers.
The bottom line is that SWG was not fine prior to CU. Especially for the amount of money at that time, that was put into development. They could not afford to cater to the ultra loud 100k or so minority that loved the "sandbox". 
Its sandbox design was its downfall in the end. I know that statement hurts to the sandbox lovers out there, but in the end, its the truth.
 
 

---

SWG had quite stable 300k to 250k subscribers until the NGE hit, dont talk about things about stuff you have no clue about!

Source:
http://www.mmodata.net/

Originally posted by Blutmau

---

 

SWG had quite stable 300k to 250k subscribers until the NGE hit, dont talk about things about stuff you have no clue about!

Source:
http://www.mmodata.net/

Hoenstly man, mmodata's info on SWG has always been highly subjective. I remember it having a very low grade in information reliability. One need only to have been there to see many guildies leaving on a week to week basis for other games. It is no secret SWG had a hard time maintaining and gaining subscibers, to deny such a thing just means you were blind to it.

Originally posted by Blutmaul

 

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by Obee

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by Obee

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by Obee

---

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

---

Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha

---

Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.
 
Not many SWG fans will like TOR

---

 This is correct.
TOR will be as big a fail as STO.
SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:
 
Space ships on rails.
No Player Bounty System.
No Real Crafting.
ETC.
 
LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

---

Nonsense.
Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.
SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.
Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.
 
 

---

The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.
Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.
 

---

Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.
 
Google it, its aq well know FACT.

---

 
No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).
Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).
Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.
 
 

---

It is revisionist.
Known fact:
SWG was losing subscribers at a fast enough pace for them to first produce the CU to address concerns and stave off the bleeding. That did not work so coupled with LA, a choice was made to forever alter the base foundation (NGE) to try and stop the massive loss of players.
 
The revisionist history is usually dolled out by the die hard "Sandbox fanboys" in an attempt to place blame on everything but a poorly made sandbox game.
 
The game mechanics were bad, the sandbox design was bad. From the very beginning. It wasnt some evil corporation that came in a "butchered" SWG. They were trying to save the game from the errors of going complete sandbox mostly, but also some of the other flaws in the game THAT BLEED OF SUBSCRIBERS WAY BEFORE CU.

---

Originally, the idea was to implement the CURB, which was intended to improve upon the existing game systems using input by the existing playerbase, with the intent of improving the game and the sub numbers.  The CU replaced the original CURB idea, and nobody has any idea where it came from or why it was done, or at least nobody is willing to admit it.  The CU broke numerous core game systems, primarily the profession based character development system.  It seems to have been intended to make the game play more like WoW, which was recently released and had the sub numbers SWG was supposed to have had.  It wasn't a result of bleeding sub numbers.
The game reached its highest number of concurrent subscribers after the CU, but those numbers began to quickly bleed out.
Prior to the CU, it has always been said that the retention numbers from box sales were poor, but that the game population was stable.  Basically, they were sewlling enough boxes to cover the number of players who were cancelling.
The primary reason for cancellations was the lack of content.  The changes the dev team made to the game were all based on core game mechanics.  It wasn't a corporate conspiricy that killed the game, it was incompetent developers and managers.  The developers made bad decisions and the managers approved the bad decisions, while ignoring the actual problems the game had.
Prior to the CU, SWG was the number two MMO on the market after EQ.  It never achieved the success that EQ had, but it wasn't a failure, nor was it bleeding subs.  It was after WoW came along and because a huge success that the idea that SWG was somehow a failure prior to the CU came about.
 

---

I know it is stil normal for some to "act" like everything was "fine" with SWG prior to the CU. It has been stated in post mortem interviews with the developers involved that was not the case. Multiple developers had stated that subscriber numbers were dropping. Then studies were done to find the source of most discontent among the players leaving. Combat mechanics and some of the "core" sandbox features were deemed to be the biggest issues facing retention of CURRENT subscribers.
The bottom line is that SWG was not fine prior to CU. Especially for the amount of money at that time, that was put into development. They could not afford to cater to the ultra loud 100k or so minority that loved the "sandbox". 
Its sandbox design was its downfall in the end. I know that statement hurts to the sandbox lovers out there, but in the end, its the truth.
 
 

---

 

SWG had quite stable 300k to 250k subscribers until the NGE hit, dont talk about things about stuff you have no clue about!

Source:
http://www.mmodata.net/

Funny stuff.

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

Farewell, SWG.  Although it's been 8 years of ups and downs, it has been great.  It's unfortunate that there are no other MMO's out there for me to move on to - nothing has what I enjoy about SWG, so I guess December 15 will also be the end of MMO's for me.  It's been fun :)

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Funny stuff.

 

Completely ignore the reasons given by the people that developed and worked on the game on a day to day basis during that period and instead believe the stats of a higley subjective third party site that is completley oblivious to the actual hard numbers that said developers did.

 

I understand the love for SWG and the sandbox sub genre, but completely ignoring factual statements is just silly.

 The "reasons" for the NGE were utter crap. They were willing to DISCARD THEIR ENTIRE PLAYERBASE for a shot at luring in some of WoW's 8million (at the time) players, by dumbing the game down to appeal to the mass market.

Yes, the game was not perfect...but what game is? I still firmly believe that if the CU had never happened, if instead the existing combat system were fixed and they had continued to polish the game and add content, that SWG would have grown considerably over time.

There never was, and never will be, ANYTHING like SWG.

The NGE was a mistake no matter which way you cut it, but you can either say they did it because they were losing subs or they were total and complete morons who were focused on only one thing: luring in some of WoW's 8 million (at the time) players. To be honest, it's likely a combination of both.

The game was not only imperfect, it was pretty bad - from a technical, traditional gameplay viewpoint. The reason SWG is so beloved is because of the community, who ignored the bugs and the lack of content so they could play a social simulator with their friends. Obviously, SOE wasn't happy with this reality, so they ripped the game apart and made it something it was never meant to be.

Let other companies take note. Don't drastically alter your core game mechanics. Just don't do it. There looks to be another NGE-type situation in the other prominent sandbox of today, but it's called the Noble Exchange. NEX, NGE... similar.