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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

General Discussion  » SWG shutting down Dec. 15th

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191 posts found
  dougmysticey

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/06
Posts: 1182

6/24/11 7:33:22 PM#61
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 

 I agree, comparing STO and TOR is way off base. Also, what do you mean (directed to SWGmodAlpha) "no real crafting"? Companion assisted crafting does not mean it won't be deep and meaningful. Aside from that, it is a story driven Bioware game is in the Star Wars universe. THAT is why I will play it. I think it is going to be pretty successful overall.

Aside from the jaded vocal minority here who will pick apart every nut and bolt, the larger audience should be pleased with the game. It will draw in a lot of non-traditional MMO players who will have this game as the first experience (other than maybe WOW). They won't even know or care about "theme part vs Sand box", or deep crafting, or even combat aspects, as long as it entertains and allows you to live in a vivid story filled universe.

EDIT: I played SWG from beta and well into the launch. I never thought it was great and I think people have fonder memories of pre NGE then is reality. It was OK for me at best.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15964

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/24/11 7:35:46 PM#62
Originally posted by dougmysticey
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 

 I agree, comparing STO and TOR is way off base. Also, what do you mean "no real crafting"? Companion assisted crafting does not mean it won't be deep and meaningful. Aside from that, it is a story driven Bioware game is the Star Wars universe. THAT is why I will play it. I think it is going to be pretty successful overall.

Aside from the jaded vocal minority here who will pick apart every nut and bolt, the larger audience should be pleased with the game. It will draw in a lot of non-traditional MMO players who will have this game as the first experience (other than maybe WOW). They won't even know or care about "theme part vs Sand box", or deep crafting, or even combat aspects, as long as it entertains and allows you to live in a vivid story filled universe.

What I want to know is what is different between using a manufacturing station radial menu to craft things, and using a companion radial menu to craft things?

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 7:40:42 PM#63
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 

The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.

Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.

 

Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.

 

Google it, its aq well know FACT.

  AzurePrower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 1545

Ahh yes, "Hypers." The people who praise and hate every MMORPG... We've dismissed that claim.

6/24/11 7:44:56 PM#64


Originally posted by Troneas


This brought a smile to my face. Thank you good sir.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2800

6/24/11 8:03:49 PM#65
Originally posted by AzurePrower

 


Originally posted by Troneas


This brought a smile to my face. Thank you good sir.

Yup.

Still think we "old time vets" are haters?

SOE has no happy customers, just future disgruntled ones. And no loyalty to any customer.

They did it to "our" SWG and now are putting yours down.

Not like we didn't warn you.

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

6/24/11 8:13:10 PM#66
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 

The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.

Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.

 

Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.

 

Google it, its aq well know FACT.

 

No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).

Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).

Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.

 

 

  Comnitus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 2509

Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

6/24/11 8:16:57 PM#67

So Star Wars (Galaxies) ends. Not with dancing, celebrating Ewoks, but with a strange mix of emotions - regret, melancholy, perhaps even joy or a sense of justice that the game, an abomination to what it was in the past, is finally being put to rest.

Let its legacy be chronicled and its example be made known to all who would take heed.

  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 8:23:51 PM#68
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 

The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.

Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.

 

Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.

 

Google it, its aq well know FACT.

 

No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).

Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).

Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.

 

 

It is revisionist.

Known fact:

SWG was losing subscribers at a fast enough pace for them to first produce the CU to address concerns and stave off the bleeding. That did not work so coupled with LA, a choice was made to forever alter the base foundation (NGE) to try and stop the massive loss of players.

 

The revisionist history is usually dolled out by the die hard "Sandbox fanboys" in an attempt to place blame on everything but a poorly made sandbox game.

 

The game mechanics were bad, the sandbox design was bad. From the very beginning. It wasnt some evil corporation that came in a "butchered" SWG. They were trying to save the game from the errors of going complete sandbox mostly, but also some of the other flaws in the game THAT BLEED OF SUBSCRIBERS WAY BEFORE CU.

  TUX426

Inquisitor

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 1971

Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

6/24/11 8:30:01 PM#69
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

All the more reason for Lucas Arts to pull the plug.

FAR too much invested in TOR for it to be compared to this game.

I could see that if they are worried a significant number of folks interested in the new Star Wars MMO accidently download the SWG trial instead of TOR and decide against a purchase of TOR because of how unfun and buggy SWG is (thinking SWG is TOR).

The much more likely reason SWG is being canned is the fact that the paid player population is very low and still bleeding out (even if it is just a trickle due to the already low numbers).  Given LEC is relatively uninvolved with TOR since EA bought out the publishing rights to the game, they would have even less of a reason to kill SWG in favor of TOR.  The folks in charge of LEC and SOE likely traded their estimates of subscriber losses due to TOR and decided it wouldn't be worth continuing the game service.

Short version: TOR is likely a factor, not to herd the SWG playerbase towards the new game, but due to the belief that it will take away enough of the remaining SWG subscriber base to make continuing the game, one that was already on the verge, too much of a financial risk for the two companies.

No...I should have been more clear.

 

SWG HAS to shut down with SWTOR. Lucas Arts can't have the continual comparisons being made, and you know they would be. As long as SWG had something SWTOR didn't, people would suggest players try SWG, like most others, they would probably quit, and LA would lose the customer for either game.

Lucas Arts needs SWG to DIE and not be any kind of a factor when they release SWTOR. The constant comparisons will be bad enough as it is, they simply can NOT have SWG as an option for players to go to. They need ALL Star Wars fans to be vested in SWTOR...not SWG. As long as SWG lived, that wouldn't happen.

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

6/24/11 8:30:14 PM#70



Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.
 
Google it, its aq well know FACT.


Because we all know that SOE devs, specially the SWG ones, are known for their true statements...

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  Comnitus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 2509

Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

6/24/11 8:33:32 PM#71
Originally posted by Drakxii

 



Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.
 
Google it, its aq well know FACT.



Because we all know that SOE devs, specially the SWG ones, are known for their true statements...

 

Right, they're going to lie about losing subscribers so they can invalidate their only justification for implementing the CU and the NGE. Wait, what? Stop grasping for straws, man!

  erictlewis

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3059

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

6/24/11 8:35:47 PM#72
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

All the more reason for Lucas Arts to pull the plug.

FAR too much invested in TOR for it to be compared to this game.

I could see that if they are worried a significant number of folks interested in the new Star Wars MMO accidently download the SWG trial instead of TOR and decide against a purchase of TOR because of how unfun and buggy SWG is (thinking SWG is TOR).

The much more likely reason SWG is being canned is the fact that the paid player population is very low and still bleeding out (even if it is just a trickle due to the already low numbers).  Given LEC is relatively uninvolved with TOR since EA bought out the publishing rights to the game, they would have even less of a reason to kill SWG in favor of TOR.  The folks in charge of LEC and SOE likely traded their estimates of subscriber losses due to TOR and decided it wouldn't be worth continuing the game service.

Short version: TOR is likely a factor, not to herd the SWG playerbase towards the new game, but due to the belief that it will take away enough of the remaining SWG subscriber base to make continuing the game, one that was already on the verge, too much of a financial risk for the two companies.

No...I should have been more clear.

 

SWG HAS to shut down with SWTOR. Lucas Arts can't have the continual comparisons being made, and you know they would be. As long as SWG had something SWTOR didn't, people would suggest players try SWG, like most others, they would probably quit, and LA would lose the customer for either game.

Lucas Arts needs SWG to DIE and not be any kind of a factor when they release SWTOR. The constant comparisons will be bad enough as it is, they simply can NOT have SWG as an option for players to go to. They need ALL Star Wars fans to be vested in SWTOR...not SWG. As long as SWG lived, that wouldn't happen.

 I remember w a few month back smedly making the statement that they were going to continue to run SWG, and they did not expect to be hurt by swtor.    I bet he was in for a shock when LA called them to inform them the IP license was not going to be renewed.   I have to wonder why that one guy whos always posting how healthy the game population is today. I not seen him on the forums.

  BCuse

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/05
Posts: 140

6/24/11 8:38:51 PM#73

i always knew this day would come but  it seems too early for me still.  Would somebody please make a SWG2??!  (Not with SOE)

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

6/24/11 8:43:22 PM#74
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 

The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.

Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.

 

Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.

 

Google it, its aq well know FACT.

 

No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).

Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).

Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.

 

 

It is revisionist.

Known fact:

SWG was losing subscribers at a fast enough pace for them to first produce the CU to address concerns and stave off the bleeding. That did not work so coupled with LA, a choice was made to forever alter the base foundation (NGE) to try and stop the massive loss of players.

 

The revisionist history is usually dolled out by the die hard "Sandbox fanboys" in an attempt to place blame on everything but a poorly made sandbox game.

 

The game mechanics were bad, the sandbox design was bad. From the very beginning. It wasnt some evil corporation that came in a "butchered" SWG. They were trying to save the game from the errors of going complete sandbox mostly, but also some of the other flaws in the game THAT BLEED OF SUBSCRIBERS WAY BEFORE CU.

Originally, the idea was to implement the CURB, which was intended to improve upon the existing game systems using input by the existing playerbase, with the intent of improving the game and the sub numbers.  The CU replaced the original CURB idea, and nobody has any idea where it came from or why it was done, or at least nobody is willing to admit it.  The CU broke numerous core game systems, primarily the profession based character development system.  It seems to have been intended to make the game play more like WoW, which was recently released and had the sub numbers SWG was supposed to have had.  It wasn't a result of bleeding sub numbers.

The game reached its highest number of concurrent subscribers after the CU, but those numbers began to quickly bleed out.

Prior to the CU, it has always been said that the retention numbers from box sales were poor, but that the game population was stable.  Basically, they were sewlling enough boxes to cover the number of players who were cancelling.

The primary reason for cancellations was the lack of content.  The changes the dev team made to the game were all based on core game mechanics.  It wasn't a corporate conspiricy that killed the game, it was incompetent developers and managers.  The developers made bad decisions and the managers approved the bad decisions, while ignoring the actual problems the game had.

Prior to the CU, SWG was the number two MMO on the market after EQ.  It never achieved the success that EQ had, but it wasn't a failure, nor was it bleeding subs.  It was after WoW came along and because a huge success that the idea that SWG was somehow a failure prior to the CU came about.

 

  xx19kilosold

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/08
Posts: 225

6/24/11 8:52:48 PM#75
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by xx19kilosold
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

Nonsense.

Comparing ToR to STO ? Just bitterness on display here.

SWG never was this hugely successful game some of you think it was. Some of you ignore the reality that led to the NGE. SWG was bleeding off subs at a pretty good clip prior to the NGE. That is why the changes to the game, to stem off the bleediing.

Sanbox games can be fun, I thik there are a few good ones in the past, but SWG WAS NOT one of them.

 

 

The bleeding was caused by the poorly implemented and received CU.  The CU broke a lot of the core game systems.  The CU caused bleeding, but the NGE caused an implosion of the playerbase.  The NGE decimated the playerbase in an instant, while the CU caused bleeding over time.

Had SOE fixed what their customers were asking to have fixed, which was the intention of the CURB, instead of slapping together something that caused more problems, which was the result of the CU, the original CU caused bleeding might not have occured.  The NGE was an attempt to turn the game into something very few people were interested in playing, SWG player or not, which is evident by the small current playerbase and closure announcement.

 

Thats a nice revisionist history you come up with. The truth, as stated by the devs themselves, was prior to Cu, prior to NGE, the game was losing subscribers. That is why the changes to the game.

 

Google it, its aq well know FACT.

 

No revision, the SWG playerbase/sub numbers were stable prior to the CU.  They weren't as high as they were expected to be, or as high as the folks at SOE/LEC wanted them to be, but they were stable.  The CU caused a brief bump in population, but it followed by the bleeding that Dan Rubenfield posted on his blog (the sanitized version is the one you can find there now, the original version was much more hostile, and likeley more honest).

Jeff Freeman, the former lead gameplay designer of SWG, posted on the SWG forums on this site with more information about the state of the game and the reasons for the NGE (search for posts by "Dundee" in the SWG vet forum).

Even with the rate of sub losses Dan Rubenfield claimed, it would have take the CU version of SWG several months to lose the number of subs they lost the first month of the NGE.  The sub losses from the NGe were the losses from the cU on steroids.

 

 

It is revisionist.

Known fact:

SWG was losing subscribers at a fast enough pace for them to first produce the CU to address concerns and stave off the bleeding. That did not work so coupled with LA, a choice was made to forever alter the base foundation (NGE) to try and stop the massive loss of players.

 

The revisionist history is usually dolled out by the die hard "Sandbox fanboys" in an attempt to place blame on everything but a poorly made sandbox game.

 

The game mechanics were bad, the sandbox design was bad. From the very beginning. It wasnt some evil corporation that came in a "butchered" SWG. They were trying to save the game from the errors of going complete sandbox mostly, but also some of the other flaws in the game THAT BLEED OF SUBSCRIBERS WAY BEFORE CU.

Originally, the idea was to implement the CURB, which was intended to improve upon the existing game systems using input by the existing playerbase, with the intent of improving the game and the sub numbers.  The CU replaced the original CURB idea, and nobody has any idea where it came from or why it was done, or at least nobody is willing to admit it.  The CU broke numerous core game systems, primarily the profession based character development system.  It seems to have been intended to make the game play more like WoW, which was recently released and had the sub numbers SWG was supposed to have had.  It wasn't a result of bleeding sub numbers.

The game reached its highest number of concurrent subscribers after the CU, but those numbers began to quickly bleed out.

Prior to the CU, it has always been said that the retention numbers from box sales were poor, but that the game population was stable.  Basically, they were sewlling enough boxes to cover the number of players who were cancelling.

The primary reason for cancellations was the lack of content.  The changes the dev team made to the game were all based on core game mechanics.  It wasn't a corporate conspiricy that killed the game, it was incompetent developers and managers.  The developers made bad decisions and the managers approved the bad decisions, while ignoring the actual problems the game had.

Prior to the CU, SWG was the number two MMO on the market after EQ.  It never achieved the success that EQ had, but it wasn't a failure, nor was it bleeding subs.  It was after WoW came along and because a huge success that the idea that SWG was somehow a failure prior to the CU came about.

 

I know it is stil normal for some to "act" like everything was "fine" with SWG prior to the CU. It has been stated in post mortem interviews with the developers involved that was not the case. Multiple developers had stated that subscriber numbers were dropping. Then studies were done to find the source of most discontent among the players leaving. Combat mechanics and some of the "core" sandbox features were deemed to be the biggest issues facing retention of CURRENT subscribers.

The bottom line is that SWG was not fine prior to CU. Especially for the amount of money at that time, that was put into development. They could not afford to cater to the ultra loud 100k or so minority that loved the "sandbox". 

Its sandbox design was its downfall in the end. I know that statement hurts to the sandbox lovers out there, but in the end, its the truth.

 

 

  Arezon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/29/05
Posts: 280

6/24/11 8:55:02 PM#76
Originally posted by BCuse

i always knew this day would come but  it seems too early for me still.  Would somebody please make a SWG2??!  (Not with SOE)

The best option you're going to get is SW:TOR.

  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

6/24/11 8:58:52 PM#77
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by Obee
Originally posted by TUX426
Originally posted by SWGmodAlpha
Originally posted by kishe

SWG was a sandbox, TOR is a wow-clone themepark.

 

Not many SWG fans will like TOR

 This is correct.

TOR will be as big a fail as STO.

SWG players will not flock to KOTOR for many reasons like:

 

Space ships on rails.

No Player Bounty System.

No Real Crafting.

ETC.

 

LA can clean my ball sack and SOE is a fail company and neither will get a dime from me again until they prove they can make games and not just cash cows.

All the more reason for Lucas Arts to pull the plug.

FAR too much invested in TOR for it to be compared to this game.

I could see that if they are worried a significant number of folks interested in the new Star Wars MMO accidently download the SWG trial instead of TOR and decide against a purchase of TOR because of how unfun and buggy SWG is (thinking SWG is TOR).

The much more likely reason SWG is being canned is the fact that the paid player population is very low and still bleeding out (even if it is just a trickle due to the already low numbers).  Given LEC is relatively uninvolved with TOR since EA bought out the publishing rights to the game, they would have even less of a reason to kill SWG in favor of TOR.  The folks in charge of LEC and SOE likely traded their estimates of subscriber losses due to TOR and decided it wouldn't be worth continuing the game service.

Short version: TOR is likely a factor, not to herd the SWG playerbase towards the new game, but due to the belief that it will take away enough of the remaining SWG subscriber base to make continuing the game, one that was already on the verge, too much of a financial risk for the two companies.

No...I should have been more clear.

 

SWG HAS to shut down with SWTOR. Lucas Arts can't have the continual comparisons being made, and you know they would be. As long as SWG had something SWTOR didn't, people would suggest players try SWG, like most others, they would probably quit, and LA would lose the customer for either game.

Lucas Arts needs SWG to DIE and not be any kind of a factor when they release SWTOR. The constant comparisons will be bad enough as it is, they simply can NOT have SWG as an option for players to go to. They need ALL Star Wars fans to be vested in SWTOR...not SWG. As long as SWG lived, that wouldn't happen.

LucasArts is not very involved with TOR since EA all but bought them oout as far as the game goes.  EA has taken over all publishing and marketing duties for the game, and are likely going to make far more money frm the game that LEC will (Has anyone from LEC even talked about TOR since EA took over as publisher?).  SWG has been a non-factor as far as TOR is concerned, aside from the negativity towards SWG possibly leaking over onto TOR, since TOR was first announced.  SWG having feature A is no different that game X having feature A as far as TOR is concerned.

Very few people would have left TOR for SWG due to SWG having a feature TOR doesn't, and almost nobody who isn't a current SWG subscriber would be among them.  SWG is a horribly unfun game, that is the reason it has so few subscribers today, and the few subscribers is the reason the game is closing.

SWG doesn't appeal to enough people to have any impact on TOR's success.  It is far more likely the bean counters at LEC and SOE agreed that there was a small enough chance of SWG retaining enough subscribers to make it worth the investment of keeping it open.  It isn't about TOR's viability, it is about SWG's viability.  It seems SOE and LEC agreed that SWG has no viability and decided to shut it down.

  donjuanagain

Novice Member

Joined: 3/16/11
Posts: 139

6/24/11 8:58:57 PM#78

At the end of the day, it doesnt matter what the CU or NGE did. This game is shutting down and thats that. All you people can sit here and argue back and worth on this forum and its not going to accomplish anything. Everyones opinions are worthless and the only real FACT is that SWG is closing. Done deal.

  Drakxii

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 599

6/24/11 9:04:53 PM#79
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

I know it is stil normal for some to "act" like everything was "fine" with SWG prior to the CU. It has been stated in post mortem interviews with the developers involved that was not the case. Multiple developers had stated that subscriber numbers were dropping. Then studies were done to find the source of most discontent among the players leaving. Combat mechanics and some of the "core" sandbox features were deemed to be the biggest issues facing retention of CURRENT subscribers.

The bottom line is that SWG was not fine prior to CU. Especially for the amount of money at that time, that was put into development. They could not afford to cater to the ultra loud 100k or so minority that loved the "sandbox". 

Its sandbox design was its downfall in the end. I know that statement hurts to the sandbox lovers out there, but in the end, its the truth.

Hey I will agree that it wasn't "fine" before CU.  There were alot of problems with SWG before CU, but sorry I just don't believe the devs.  They are just tring to justify what they did. 

 

They could have handled just having the '100k' fans you said the game really had, they handled having less than 50k for 6 years.  Sub numbers were fine, but SOE and LA were do full of themselves they thought that should have millions of players in there very unfinshed and baddly balanced game.  They dulued themselves in thinking that it was because the game was too sandboxy.  Instead of the fact that the game just wasn't finshed or polished enough. 

I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.

  User Deleted
6/24/11 9:06:52 PM#80
Originally posted by donjuanagain

At the end of the day, it doesnt matter what the CU or NGE did. This game is shutting down and thats that. All you people can sit here and argue back and worth on this forum and its not going to accomplish anything. Everyones opinions are worthless and the only real FACT is that SWG is closing. Done deal.

 You are wise beyond your years.

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