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Hardware  » Laptop vs desktop pt 2

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35 posts found
  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/24/11 2:45:37 PM#1

Questions.

How is the desktop build and choices for the money spent?

How much more powerful is the desktop choices compared to the laptop?

And motherboard suggestions are heavily welcome?

 

laptop

http://www.sagernotebook.com/index.php?page=product_info&model_name=NP8130

 

desktop parts

GPU

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130661

CPU

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115072&cm_re=2500k-_-19-115-072-_-Product

Looking for motherboard suggestions

Also wondering about this combo?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.660820

 

Note:  Case and power supply will be purchased later.  I am going to be working in Japan and wish to purchase those items there.

 

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 1819

6/24/11 2:52:58 PM#2
Standard way to do it is to ask yourself if you will be moving often.
If youre not moving often and dont need it on the run, get a desktop.
If you can settle for a tablet or some form of really cheap mini laptop for on the move then just get a desk top and that.

However if you want to game on the move, wait on llano and purchase 1 or 2 extra batteries. Thats what i did with my sager but then again i spend hours in the school n train on a weekly basis so i need the laptop to play while waiting for classes or w/e

I say llano because gaming laptops have about half te battery life or less. Llano gaming is sposed to last 2-3 hours before batt runs out and the usual lasts 1-2 hours at most

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  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 1819

6/24/11 2:55:20 PM#3
Sorry for double post but theres no edit on mobile mmorpg.com x.x umm... Desktops should be around 1.5-2x better than laptop counterparts for price. Ati is usually a step lower so a 5870 on laptop is a slighty underclocked 5770 on a desktop.

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  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/24/11 2:57:39 PM#4

I will probably be moving around yearly.  I also already have a 3 year old gaming laptop.  t-9600 and 9800gts.  It basically runs most things I throw at it on med- low settings. 

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 7344

6/24/11 3:01:34 PM#5

The combo deal has a GeForce GTX 560 Ti, which is a different card from the GeForce GTX 560.  Loosely, take the GPU die in a GeForce GTX 560 Ti, cut it in half, clock it lower, and you've got a GeForce GTX 560M.  The laptop card won't give you half of the performance of the desktop one.  Don't be fooled by the laptop card being bundled with more video memory than it has any plausible use for.

As for the processor, they're the same CPU die, just clocked differently.  There's quite a difference between 2 GHz and 3.3 GHz, and the former having hyperthreading will do a little to close the gap, but not very much.

I'm not a fan of the huge combo deals like that.  Overpaying for the memory, power supply, video card, and motherboard overwhelms the combo discount.  Well, I guess for the motherboard and power supply, if that's the tier of product you want, then that's what it costs.  But I'd question why you need a 750 W power supply unless you're going SLI, and why you need that high end of a motherboard at all.

  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/24/11 3:08:39 PM#6

The truth is i don't.

 

So best option would be.

Go for the 2500k and the 560 gtx ti and look for a less over the top motherboard and power supply then recommended in the combo deal?

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 7344

6/24/11 3:09:31 PM#7
Originally posted by gotha

I will probably be moving around yearly.  I also already have a 3 year old gaming laptop.  t-9600 and 9800gts.  It basically runs most things I throw at it on med- low settings. 

If you're only moving once a year, then it's easy enough to move a desktop once a year.  That's not much of a justification for getting a laptop.  If you were moving once a day, then that's what a "desktop replacement" laptop is for.

The GeForce GTX 560M should give you around double the graphical performance of the laptop you have now.  The desktop GeForce GTX 560 Ti would give you more like five times the graphical performance of your current laptop.  For comparison, a Llano system would get you performance a little less than what you have now, but while using less than half the power at load, and very little power at all while idle.

A Llano system should get you battery life of around a couple of hours while playing intensive games, and much longer than that at idle.  While not playing games, a Llano-based system will have battery life comparable to the best non-gaming laptops of the same battery capacity and monitor size, so it's a nifty chip if you want a nice laptop for non-gaming purposes that can also play games.  But it sounds like that's not the performance level that you're after.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 7344

6/24/11 3:22:01 PM#8
Originally posted by gotha

Go for the 2500k and the 560 gtx ti and look for a less over the top motherboard and power supply then recommended in the combo deal?

The Core i5 2500K is for overclocking.  If you're not going to overclock it, then skip the K and get the Core i5 2500 instead.  They're the same thing, except with different integrated graphics (which you won't use, anyway) and an unlocked multiplier to allow overclocking.

If you're not going SLI, then this motherboard is pretty similar to the one in the combo deal, except that it loses a bunch of features that you'd be pretty unlikely to ever use, anyway:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131705

The more expensive motherboard supports SLI and CrossFire, has an extra two USB 2.0 ports on the back panel (8 versus 6, not counting USB 3.0 ports), has eSATA, a coaxial port, and better power delivery to the processor.  That last one doesn't matter, as even the cheaper motherboard will do everything you could plausibly ask of it on air cooling, even if you're intent on overclocking the processor far enough to fry it.

It's a difference of $78.50, though.  I wouldn't pay the extra $78.50 for a bunch of features that you're not going to use.  I'm not a fan of over the top motherboards that try to load in as many random features as they can.  Mid-range to avoid cut corners, sure, but not high end unless you have unusual needs.

For a video card, a GeForce GTX 560 Ti is roughly equivalent to a Radeon HD 6950 1 GB.  The 6950 is perhaps a nicer card due to the lower power consumption and better feature set, but they'll give about the same performance in games.  If you have a strong preference for either Nvidia or AMD, you can go either way and get a good deal.  Or you could just take whichever is cheaper the day you buy.

The power supply you've picked is good quality.  But 750 W is way more wattage than you need.  For a single video card, a power supply of comparably good quality but rated at around 500 W will be just as good for your purposes, and considerably cheaper.  For example, any of these are basically the same thing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371047

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207013

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151094

Which of them is cheaper varies from one day to the next.

  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/25/11 4:56:14 AM#9
  psyclum

Novice Member

Joined: 2/01/10
Posts: 800

6/25/11 11:49:18 PM#10
Originally posted by gotha

Power,  case,  and harddrives will be purchased in Japan.

not too sure about this...  but are you going to be dealing with tax situation for the computer?  if you build the whole machine here and bring it to japan, you wont have to pay taxes for it coming back to the states, but if you finish the build in japan, you may need to pay taxes "importing" that computer?   not too sure about that for international travelers so you might want to check into that.  

I think it's based on the nature of the travel.  i think you'll be fine if you are going to japan cuz you are stationed in japan through the military, but not sure about civilian travel tho...

  therain93

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 1975

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

6/26/11 8:28:54 AM#11

The Asus G74 comes out today.  An 8gb model is available at Best Buy for $1249 (I've ordered mine for pickup already).  The only downsides I expect are uninstalling some bloatware and likely BB put 4 2gb sticks in.  I expect I eventually would replace those when I put a SSD in.

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---------------------
MMORPG's seem to be striving for equal result instead of equal opportunity. That's where I see the problem
Originally posted by dave6660

  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/26/11 9:06:08 AM#12

The Asus g74 looks tempting but it really doesn't offer that much more then the sager.  The laptops also just can't stand up against the desktop.

 

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/40119-nvidia-geforce-gtx-560-ti-1gb-review-7.html

 

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-560M.48313.0.htm

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 7344

6/26/11 9:10:22 AM#13

You do, I hope, realize that there's about 99% chance that getting any computer hardware from Best Buy will end up being a big mistake.

Neither Best Buy nor Asus seem to know what's in the laptop.  Seriously.  Check their specs:

http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Gaming_Powerhouse/G74SX/#specifications

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Asus+-+Laptop+/+Intel%26%23174%3B+Core%26%23153%3B+i7+Processor+/+17.3%22+Display+/+8GB+Memory+/+1TB+Hard+Drive/2712579.p?id=1218346639131&skuId=2712579&st=G74SX&cp=1&lp=1

I'm guessing you'll be stuck with the 1600x900 monitor that is too short to be useful like a real monitor.  Since Best Buy didn't specify otherwise, it will probably be 5400 RPM hard drives, though that's not a problem if you're getting an SSD.

And then there is this, from Asus site:

NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 560M with 3GB/2GB GDDR5 VRAM

With how fast a GeForce GTX 560M is, do you know what the difference between 0.75 GB, 1.5 GB, and 3 GB of video memory is?  Power consumption, and that's about it.  If you manage to turn graphical settings high enough for the difference between 1.5 GB and 0.75 GB of video memory to make any measureable different in performance, then the GPU will choke.  There might be a handful of exceptions, not necessarily plural.  But a difference between 1.5 GB and 3 GB?  Forget about it.  Power consumption and that's it.

And then 2 GB?  That's even worse.  That means either mismatched memory channels or a memory channel left vacant entirely.  That would hurt your memory bandwidth and give you performance inferior to what you'd get from 0.75 GB of video memory.

There are also all of the traditional drawbacks of a gaming laptop.  But I don't see a need to rehash that here.

-----

Really, though, where are the Juniper+Sandy Bridge laptops?  This is getting ridiculous.  Alienware has it, and that seems to be about it.  In a desktop, the top bins of Juniper and GF116 give you about the same performance.  Juniper does it with a lot less cost of building the card and a lot less power consumption.  The latter, in particular, is a big deal in a laptop.  Based on Alienware's prices, Juniper is cheaper to buy the card, too.  So why is Clevo making a bunch of laptops with GF116 and nothing with Juniper?  And now Asus seems to have joined them, though Asus seems to be shying away from the higher end Barts and GF104 chips.

  therain93

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 1975

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

6/26/11 9:33:49 AM#14

Well, you're already wrong about the hard drives as they are specified as 7200rpms on the main page.  I'm hoping for the same regarding the reslution, but I suspect you may be right  -- most documentation on the g74 has been talking 1080, but BB did have multiple skus for the g73, including the 16x9.  I'll post back if I walk out of the store with it or not ( ' ;

As for the merits of gaming laptop vs desktop -- that's really user preference (I've been on the same laptop for about 3 years and the same "desktop", currently connected to my hdtv, for 5 years -- the desktop had one video card refresh about 3 years ago).  For me, refreshing to the laptop makes more sense for lots of reasons that I don't need to go into. ( ' :

 

Edit: Going into the store and checking out the display model, the native resolution was indeed 1600x900, which was enough of a reason to cancel my order / ' :   The guy working in the department clearly knew very little about the machine, thus I couldn't confirm the actual memory configuration.   Although the machine did look sharp, I'll hold out for a full hd screen sku.

Re-subscribing to City of Heroes?

Get a bonus FREE 500 Points for the Paragon Market (a $6.25 value) using codes found in this thread here.
Last updated October 20, 2011

---------------------
MMORPG's seem to be striving for equal result instead of equal opportunity. That's where I see the problem
Originally posted by dave6660

  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/26/11 12:37:32 PM#15

Ok you might kill me for this.

But I have looked into shipping for desktop computers to the Japan.  Apparently its about 200 dollars.  So i figure might as well get one custom built and ship it over.

Is Ibuypower the best place to get customs?

And is this a good build?

Gamer Paladin E710

1 x Case ( NZXT Tempest EVO Gaming Case - Black )
1 x Processor ( Intel® Core™ i5-2500K Processor (4x 3.30GHz/6MB L3 Cache) )
1 x Processor Cooling ( Liquid CPU Cooling System [SOCKET-1155 & 1156] - [Free Upgrade] Standard 120mm Fan )
1 x Memory ( 8 GB [4 GB X2] DDR3-1333 Memory Module - Corsair or Major Brand )
1 x Video Card ( NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 - 1.2GB - EVGA Superclocked - Single Card )
1 x Video Card Brand ( Major Brand Powered by AMD or NVIDIA )
1 x Motherboard ( ASUS P8H67-M PRO )
1 x Power Supply ( 800 Watt -- Standard )
1 x Primary Hard Drive ( 750 GB HARD DRIVE -- 32M Cache, 7200 RPM, 6.0Gb/s - Single Drive )
1 x Optical Drive ( 24X Dual Format/Double Layer DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW Drive - Black )
1 x Flash Media Reader / Writer ( 12-In-1 Internal Flash Media Card Reader/Writer - Black )
1 x Sound Card ( 3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard )
1 x Network Card ( Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100) )
1 x Operating System ( Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium + Office Starter 2010 (Includes basic versions of Word and Excel) - 64-Bit )
1 x Keyboard ( iBUYPOWER USB Keyboard - Black )
1 x Mouse ( iBUYPOWER Internet Mouse )
1 x Speaker System ( iBUYPOWER 2.1 Channel Stereo Super Bass Subwoofer Speaker System )
 
 
hrrrmm other option would be to just buy this
slight downgrade in cpu but am saving 150 bucks
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 7344

6/26/11 6:16:51 PM#16

Is there some reason why you don't want to build your own?  That will get you a better deal than getting something from iBuyPower.

You've changed the build from what you had posted before.  In both cases, you were looking to pay an extra $29 for a factory overclocked card.  And you're really just paying that for the overclock, as neither of them are premium cards.  I'm especially not fond of Palit's non-reference designs.

If you're going to get 8 GB of system memory, it's better to get it as two 4 GB modules than four 2 GB modules.  The former is cheaper to buy off of New Egg, too.  And neither iBuyPower nor the prebuilt computer tells you the memory voltage or latency timings.  At 1333 MHz, that isn't much of a risk, but if you get unspecified 1600 MHz memory, it might well be running at 1.65 V, in which case, it's effectively just overclocked and overvolted 1333 MHz memory, and that's not worth paying a price premium for.

You seem to be looking to pay extra for an unlocked multiplier processor so that you can overclock it, and then getting a motherboard that won't overclock it.  The problem with the Asus P8H67-M Pro is the H67 part of it.  That's the wrong chipset, as it completely disables overclocking the processor, and even restricts turbo boost substantially.  You want a P67 chipset.  The motherboard you had picked before uses the P67 chipset, but probably wouldn't be able to handle that much of an overclock, either.  And the pre-built version off of New Egg?  They don't say what they're using.

You had the right idea on a power supply before, with the Corsair TX650 V2.  An unnamed 700 W or 800 W power supply is going to be garbage, and you'd be better off replacing it the day it arrives.  Or better yet, not buying it in the first place.

iBuyPower doesn't tell you what hard drives they use.  It will probably be the cheapest one that meets their claimed specs, and probably slow.

One of the big problems with iBuyPower is their power supply selection.  More to the point, they don't even offer any high quality power supply of moderate wattage.  If you want something decent, you have to pay at least $99 to upgrade the power supply.  And then they put ridiculous wattage requirements on the power supply based on the video card requirements, trying to keep one of their cheap junk power supplies from exploding.  700 W required for a Radeon HD 6950?  Really?  For a video card with a hardware-enforced (PowerTune) TDP of 225 W?  The Corsair TX650 V2 is overkill for that already, and they're going to say it's not good enough?

The most customization you can get is if you build one yourself from parts.  $1000 is enough to get you something very nice.  If you need one built to order, AVA Direct offers to most customization of any OEM in the United States that I'm aware of, and will let you get basically whatever you want.

  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/26/11 6:53:09 PM#17

What should I be looking for case,  power supply,  ram and harddrive if i go with the Non custom build above and put it together myself?

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 7344

6/26/11 7:50:36 PM#18

I'm not sure what you mean by "the Non custom build above".  If you name a budget, I could pick out parts for you off of New Egg.

  gotha

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 936

 
6/26/11 8:11:05 PM#19
  NeVeRLiFt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 332

6/26/11 8:15:39 PM#20
Component Item Price
Processor AMD Phenom II X4 840 3.2GHz $104.99
Motherboard Asus M4A87TD EVO $104.99
Memory Corsair 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3-1333 $39.99
Graphics Gigabyte Radeon HD 6850 1GB $169.99
Storage Samsung SpinPoint F3 1TB $64.99
Asus DRW-24B1ST $20.99
Audio Integrated $0
Enclosure Antec One Hundred $54.99
Power supply Antec EarthWatts Green 380W $44.99
Total   $605.92

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