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Second Life

Second Life 

General Discussion  » Linden Lab tries to cover up Spyware on the SL Grid.

16 posts found
  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 934

 
OP  6/16/11 2:49:35 AM#1

I have experienced an issue with Linden Lab which may, or may not piss people off, but is sure is funny.

It has been 4 months since the Removal of ZF Red Zone from Second Life, and like 4 months since LL Banned him after he refused to remove the system from the grid, and had it removed many times, and then the messages posted on YouTube about his company possibly compromise users SL passwords due to mistyped passwords logged from his site & such.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWINHZDJwSo

It is also rumroed that ZFire, Released his source code public, but it is said on a few blogs I read on google search that ZFire got his scripts from a leaked/stolen copy of Skills Hak's CDS which is supposed to be another CopyBot detector, but is easily bypassed by almost any CopyBot by Disabling your Media, and auto play in SL.

Skills Hak is a well known person who owns a company called Gemni Industries, or Insilico, but he has been caught himself in groups with CopyBotters, aka Jcool410, Lonely Bluebird,  and I am quite sure other people who worked with the Onyx Project, along with other illegal projects such as Data Mining & Geo Locating Residents, which was known as the Emerald Developers, which the last wrong thing I know of that they did was use peoples computers to DDOS another CopyBotters site for personal use.

Okay, So here is the funny thing, After 4 months, and long Debates about both Skills Hak, and Zfire Xue's Red Zone which I debate against Zfire when I started to see signs of abuse from his system, and he even admit to me he manually add my account to the ban network, and made accusations against my account, which I have the evidence saved on an external drive.

Anyways to get to the good part, I recently made a post on the Second Life Forums, and the post after maybe a day or two was quickly moved to a moderator area, and not viewable by anyone, this explained everything about the CDS system, and abuse which Skills Hak is doing to many residents, without any evidence. Skills Hak, is also a LIB SL code user, as well as other people he knows, and anyone who uses a LibSL client for backup purposes is obviously a CopyBot by Skills Hak's system, so we basically have Skills Hak,  which I have found the logs of on Google of the code being stolen and used by Zfire to Data Mine, Detect alts, and all this stuff, but just because the information isn't released to the public, Skills Hak as a resident is allowed to do what he pleases, and sell/market a anti theft system, which can defame many avatars not limited to myself, cause Harassment, Grief, and harm to people, or possibly compromise a users security, or privacy, while it can't be proven, we already know that the CDS system uses HTTP requests, through media, and that is enough to prove that his system communicates without a users knowledge to send Data from their computers to his stream, while that Data May only be SL information, or client name, it is still not asking consent, and he could be logging IP, or geo located residents without consent, which is a privacy concern.

So here is the Serious Question, of why Linden Lab allows this type of crap from a person simply because they pay for 5 regions in Second Life, and run a business, to me it looks like LL is trying to cover up all evidence that points this out on SL Forums, as my post has, and was not the only one to go missing, or moved to private moderator area's. There have been other posts including posts in the past made viewable only to those who are registered members to the Service in attempt to cover up any Negative Effects on SL, Lucky for me I also posted copies of my posts outside SL forums on sites they don't control so they will appear on the google search engine.

Here is the LOG I found where Skills Hak talks about Zfire stealing his code, and turning it into something Malicious, yet all evidence points to the fact he could be doing the same thing, but LL takes no actions other than cover up.

http://theiamagic.blogspot.com/2011/03/cds-vs-redzone.html?zx=3c508dff4ee585f6

Yep it looks like Linden Lab tries to cover up their stuff just like other games corrupted GM's have in the past.

Let's not forget that there are now kids under the age of 18 in Second Life, and they can easily be exposed to any, all mature content, as well as possibly spyware, which can possibly track where they live in Real Life, or close to it just as the Cellphone trackers, and FaceBook, if you don't watch what you do.

Linden Lab from my personal experience has a lot of good employee's who work for them, but when they refuse to do something such as simply disallow these type of systems from the grid which have caused harassment, grief, and privacy violations to not only myself, but many other groups who have never even used a illegal client or service as he defames every resident into thinking and for this reason it is a violation of the community standards, I mean I have been in Second Life over 1 & a half years since his accusations towards me, and attacks from his EX.Emerald members who said I agree to Skills Hak's privacy policy when I never agree to such.

While users have the right to restrict access from certain members, to their Estate, or Lands this goes beyond that, and should not be allowed.

Yes I have also run into many Theft group supporters in SL, and many people trying to COYA, but have exposed such personal, and sooner or later they will be gone just like Emerald was, but they are not enjoying their SL experience like they once did and I am glad for that, as for all the good RP sims, and places I knew most of them in SL don't exist anymore, and those that do have down sized a lot compared to when I have been here, and this happend since CDS was first released, and then the Red Zone incident.

As for griefing, there have been no improvents to fix such, and the name changes, so that all residents making a new account have the last name of Resident are not good, no one likes it, and half the people I know hate Viewer 2.

So the big question is:

Who is really in control of Linden Lab, and what are they doing for its residents, what are they really doing about systems like this which ruin the enjoyment of SL for others, many I know, and what right does Skills Hak, have to say what viewer I can, or can't be on isn't this Linden Lab's decision, or choice of what they want to block out, not the residents to spy on, yet it seems they allow defame of individuals/groups, and harassment, all by one person, and his friends/groups.

And if Linden Lab actually moved this thread to a Moderator Section for review, why wouldn't they send an email, or notice to my account, yet alone if it was moved into moderator section for a reason why does it take them over 1 year to remove a system like this from our grid, which is advertised false, easily bypassed, and brings many problems to its SL residents.

  Achillez

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/06
Posts: 105

6/16/11 2:56:25 AM#2

Informative but way too much bold/underline. There can't be THAT many MUST READ things in all that.

  krondin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/05/09
Posts: 81

6/16/11 3:02:25 AM#3

I do not regret selling my 3 islands and closing all my businesses 3 years ago. The level of corruption had already reached epic proportions with LL doing little or nothing, or even Approving illeagal things to enter the grid.  Secondlife had such great potential, it could have become what rosenthal started it to become, the future of the internet, a 3d world intersection where all people of all types and places can work/play together, but instead it became a horrible place where intillectual ideas were stolen daily and the Controlling element , LL, seemed to endorse the thieves!  Good riddence to SL, and LL. They dont get my time or money anymore, and i am just one of millions of people who left SL!

If you are considering trying Secondlife, i highly recomend you dont !

  Strafingmir

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/11
Posts: 24

6/21/11 11:46:37 PM#4

Honestly the people that have come under the most harm from CDS are Copy botters, yeah Skills system isn't flawless, and Skills has been involved with some questionable people, but the professional manner Insilico is run says a lot about the people that run it. That's just my two cents on it, i'm not denying any of this happened, but of couse LL isn't going to screw with Insilico it's a really hot location that brings in a ton of money.

  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 934

 
OP  6/29/11 2:16:41 AM#5
Originally posted by Strafingmir

Honestly the people that have come under the most harm from CDS are Copy botters, yeah Skills system isn't flawless, and Skills has been involved with some questionable people, but the professional manner Insilico is run says a lot about the people that run it. That's just my two cents on it, i'm not denying any of this happened, but of couse LL isn't going to screw with Insilico it's a really hot location that brings in a ton of money.

 Well I agree that Linden Linden Lab will not do anything about Insilico because he owns quite a few simulators so Linden Lab allows him to get away with Griefing residents, harassment, and defaming individuals, even people who have never heard of Skills Hak before.

His system is sold on the market place and called an Anti CopyBot system, yet it operates Malicious, and scans peoples Clients, and requests Data from peoples computers without express consent, which can lead to IP address being disclosed, and possibly other things, and leaves a persons computer open to attacks, or possibly other Security exploits that could be done within the Second Life client by him, and his close friends.

While residents are allowed to Eject, Evict, Ban, or Kick a resident from their lands for any reason or no reason at all, the Second Life community starndards are very clear, and they include not to defame individuals, or groups, no griefing, or harassment of any type, this system also could be in violation of the California Privacy act from what some people in SL tell me, as the system doesn't inform anyone they are being scanned reguardless of the information collected, and no one is given the chance to Opt-Out.

Personally I have seen Skills Hak, and his friends hanging around with CopyBots, I have even seen Skills Hak's Friends from certain groups in the grid, and Script kiddies with CopyBots Permissions Exploiting Scripts, and many other things from content developers in this game, things that they all try their best to cover up, while the individuals who actually did the crimes got banned and came right back on new accounts the ones that knew what they were doing are still in SL, and lets not forget about the multiple Emerald Incidents with DDOS attacks, and illegal Data Mining, which is the same thing his system does but has been said not to.

What you are wrong about.

And I say this as an Open Sourced SL User, when I first hear about the CopyBot I had no idea a such thing as a CopyBot ever exist, but then I found out quickly what it was, how to use them, ways to get away with CopyBotting right under Linden Lab's nose they wont ban a person unless they file a DMCA, or catch you giving out stolen content in world to everyone knowingly, but at the same time I learned about Open Sourced SL and the good things that such could be used for, and so I love and enjoy Open Sourced Second Life.

CDS doesn't protect, let me explain, While CDS can detect some people using a CopyBot viewer it is very limited, and only detects people with Media Enabled, or users who are just stupid, meanwhile lets say even if a CopyBot user gets banned for stealing tons of content from a developer, all they have to do is Export that data to their PC, and make a new account and try again until they are not detected and know how they do it, which bypassing CDS is simple and the entire CopyBot community laughs about CDS, as it was not the real threat, the only threat to the CopyBot community was ZFire Xue, but with him out of the picture its CopyBot Galore.

Let me make it clear as well that if I myself wanted for any reason to CopyBot any Content Developer I want, Cheat any MMORPG, or use a hack of any kind it is easy for me to find the resources, and do such, since I am already falsely accused of being a person who steals content in Second Life, I would simply make another free account, and take the technical steps it takes to hide myself from being detected by Linden Lab go right in past his CDS system and steal what I want take off delete account, never leading back to me for any reason, and eve if I was accused of what proof does the company have unless they filed a complaint with my ISP, or in my case both my ISP's, which are both under different names, and then checked to see that I was actually the Creator/Person who last had the stolen content which I would never be so dumb to import content into SL stolen.

The Owner of Insilico, and his friends know all this as well themselves, they even had, or still have it listed in their profile they support open sourced SL, and yet anyone beyond them who uses open sourced SL, or knows how to Grief, or anything about it even when taking steps to prevent such, or any user that has been flagged by his system is an automatic CopyBot reguardless of if it was a mistake or not, and with my attempts to contact him about it through his appeal site, my friends attempts we never got a single response at all to our email, or avatar in world.

Another Fact is that Skills Hak knows this, he knows himself that Linden Lab has checked my account due to countless accusations made by other people stealing and giving away content, Zfire Xue, and possibly himself and his friends, yet even after my account being released back to me with nothing connecting back to me he himself still accuses me of Stealing Content, when he knows for sure that his system doesn't work, and I could get around it easily so why even try.

That answer is simple, he is using the system to bring harm, and grief to residents he doesn't like, or his friends do not like, and by all means Linden Lab should at least make him remove the system from Second Life & the market place, while theft is in my eyes not right neither is privacy violating and all the false accusations towards residents I know even residents who are long time members of help groups I know, and detected by an automated system, not by humans.

and to make that statement worse, Linden Lab supports him by doing nothing but cover it all up as I have shown.

Hey if people are going to CopyBot they are going to CopyBot there isn't anything anyone can do about it beyond Linden Lab, and abuse reports against those who are abusing the CopyBot beyond legal Backup Purposes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqW0A0PLhQ0 Here is a comic about ZF Red Zone but it applies to similar systems as Skills Hak admit's the CDS script was leaked or something on other blogs, and that ZFire used his script to make his detector, after all they both work through media, and behind your back without your knowledge or consent, and all I can say really for both content developers, and his system is Security Fail, and if his system was collecting personal information for any reason it is being kept private and secret between his friends although there was proof the Emerald Developers did this already and he was on their team too when it take place.

http://alphavilleherald.com/2010/05/emerald-site-security-broken-data-mining-shocks-linden-lab.html can we explain this? I wouldn't like any information to communicate with a server or be logged for any reason without asking me permission first before being allowed to collect any information of mine through media at all, but LL hasn't patched the seucirty hole in the client, plus those who have already been logged, or scanned without consent nothing is done about that.

But here is the fact, by even using this game, or service as a new resident, or by even going to any store which you do not know, dance clubs, and or inviting your friends you are possibly having information sent to external servers without your consent, and harvested by this system, but either way as long as your media is on you are being scanned without permission.

And the theft will never end, Mesh will be able to be CopyBot too, not to mention TurboSquid will turn SL into a 3d mesh piracy sharing application with even more DMCA reports, and hey once your work is stolen and out there the DMCA policy only applies in SL, and if you DMCA, and they counter file from another country good luck doing anything unless you have a lawyer, and even then they will take your work across other grids and sell it there if they want, and of course people will keep uploading it to SL get banned, and it gets removed they just make a new copy and give it away again, after all I do remember when DMCA were filed against Linden Lab for the Na'vi from the movie Avatar being used on their grid, some were removed, even some Star Wars things but its all back again.

  Strafingmir

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/11
Posts: 24

7/07/11 5:37:54 PM#6

While yes there are security concerns, The CDS Relay does it's job and keeps copy botters out of shops that decide to put it in. No one is required to use the Ban Relay but I highly reommend it. As far as griefing is concerned there's far more disruptive users that get away with crap. Insilico gets griefed at least once a week thanks to the Relay system screwing over a ton of Copy Botters. SO you have to take everything negative you read about CDS with a grain of salt since most people are just mad they can't get away with Copy Botting anymore.

 

Also I think that people that claim they're being griefed in SL need to play some other games and realize they're getting off easy, since they can just tp out and Leave.

  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 934

 
OP  7/08/11 10:38:52 PM#7
Originally posted by Strafingmir

While yes there are security concerns, The CDS Relay does it's job and keeps copy botters out of shops that decide to put it in. No one is required to use the Ban Relay but I highly reommend it. As far as griefing is concerned there's far more disruptive users that get away with crap. Insilico gets griefed at least once a week thanks to the Relay system screwing over a ton of Copy Botters. SO you have to take everything negative you read about CDS with a grain of salt since most people are just mad they can't get away with Copy Botting anymore.

 

Also I think that people that claim they're being griefed in SL need to play some other games and realize they're getting off easy, since they can just tp out and Leave.

(Nope I don't take it negative like a Grain of Salt, I have been CDS banned myself for over 2 years, & based on Skills Hak & CDS I am still a CopyBot, but again I have been checked many times by Linden Lab, at one point banned, and checked more, and they found nothing that I had actually done myself.) 

CDS, and Red Zone, both worked to a certain point, however people like friends I know who are actually very helpful in Sandbox for example have been flagged as a CopyBot by CDS, Myself accused by his system of being a CopyBot, and other friends I knew who never even used a CopyBot, but only Emerald flagged as a CopyBot too by mistake.

My problem is that he is in violation of the Second Life Community Standards, & Possibly the SL TOS.

All Appeals sent to him through his automated system were never respond to for any reason, nor were my friends respond to through his system, through note card, or IM, so we take this issue, and posted it public alnog with Debates on other sites, and how to bypass his system Free by simply turning off media, but again does this make us Guilty of anything because we want our privacy respected, and we don't want to be scanned without consent.?

No One is Required to use the system.

While you are 100% right on this, as I will not use such a system, other creators are falsely informed, and are told exactly that the system detects and stops CopyBots, but at the same time they are not informed that false positives stay on his list, and are banned,kicked from many places using the system, and are not given a privacy policy to read, and even if the Owner of the Land Accepted it, every resident entering would have to accept it to before a scan so that it would respect privacy.

Why Skills Hak Gets Griefed.

Skills Hak gets griefed because he is dumb, lets just leave it at that to keep these forums PG, but he gets griefed, not because CopyBots take his system seriously because they get Lulz from it, and Laugh Out Loud from it, as I have seen, and been to many CopyBot sites, and griefer sites myself, even YouTube where I see griefs and these type of things some directed at Skills Hak.

Every Real Copybotter knows it doesn't work.

Sure I have went to many Torrent sites to check for CopyBot content before, and I see stores that are supposed to be protected by CDS avalable to the public for anyone to download and upload to SL with a CopyBot client, or another grid, This proves right there that his system isn't working 100% of the time, and that CopyBot's can slip past.

No I am not angry.

I am not angry because the system works, I am angry because of his false propaganda, and false information he has illegally collected/stored in the system without my express consent, and because of his violations of the Second Life community Standards under Harassment Defame Inviduals/Groups, and possibly others, He has not right as a SL resident to tell me what clients I can connect to the Grid with, and which I can't, or to illegally scan my Computer, or obtain any information without express consent, but not limited to client information if it is sent from my computer for any reason it is a violation of my privacy, Bottom Line, only Linden Lab has the consent, and right to tell me what I can, and can't use or restrict me from connecting from certain viewers, Not Skills Hak.

Honestly I  seriously feel like going over to Insilico myself and griefing Skills Hak because of this BS.

Nope I haven't griefed Skills Hak, but honestly If I so desire, or choose to for any reason, I could simply use my VPN, my Spoofer client, and my 2nd GateWay, and go over there daily Drop griefs all over his regions, but hell I even have something better, I could go into every store secured by His system, buy every item, and CopyBot/Share it to everyone I please if I wanted to, and there is nothing him, or Linden Lab can do about it because it would never lead back to any of my accounts, and then all those content devs would be out a lot of Money, Time & Work they spent.

So what I am saying is that CDS Doesn't work, and it is just bring Harassment to many individuals, even some who are not proven to do any theft in Second Life, but in fact their system turns people into Thieves because once you get accused of doing something without proof, restricted access from buying content your friend has, or you wan't, how else are you supposed to obtain it if you don't know the creators name, or if you don't want to IM them but simply want to buy the content from their store, and you are banned, not for any wrong doing but because one dictator who makes accusations against many residents, & again it is a violation of the CS.

Okay so lets see here, because I know about griefing in Second Life, but have spent my entire SL after some mistakes I made myself on the other grid when it was alive in 2008 before CDS ever exist, and I was on the MG of SL, My name has been add to his system since the release of CDS, I have been accused of stealing content, but Yet Linden Lab has checked my account many times since then, Found no wrong doing based on accusations by people who have actually stolen many items and griefed in my name, and yet LL unlocks my accounts, gives everyone of them back, and Skills Hak still accuses of me stealing content, (YEP thats right), when the fact is his system should clean the CopyBot list every year, unless they are 100% proven to be a griefer, or a CopyBot by human detection, and actually respond to appeal then I wouldn't care.

Maybe I need to pull out all the logs I have where Zfire Xue, admit to abuse with a similar system, and the website where Skills Hak himself says ZF Red Zone, script was created from a leaked Copy of CDS, and where I was abused by Red Zone & Admit to it, as well as the proof of the massive griefs against my account, and the griefers saying HAHA, to how they got Zfire to manually ban my avatar without any actual reason but for reasons of Hate & Dislike, and Rumors.

While each resident in SL has a right to ban a person for any or no reason at all from their lands, they do not have a right to bring harassment to other residents in any way, and all problems should be dealt with through Help & Abuse Report, and well personally I wouldn't care if it were an actual CopyBot, or CopyBot supporter because while these same Rules apply to them as well, I personally don't care when they steal from a bunch of people I know who have espicially never used CDS, or got rid of it, but that isn't the case with CDS right now it a violation of our privacy & the Community Standards of SL.

But so far the facts prove this.

Linden Lab doesn't do anything because Skills Hak owns 5 Regions, and pays a lot of money to Linden Lab.

So can any of the above be explained in details to why a Resident of Second Life can do harassment to many individuals, & how a person can be banned by Linden Lab, and cleared from being a CopyBotter, or a Thief by Linden Lab, yet they are still banned from CDS, and accused of theft by this person.

Also Can anyone explain why, Skills was part of Emerald Developer Team/Group with JCool410, Ph0x, LoneyBlueBird, and why these people had connections to Second Life Militaries, which in turn had connections to other Military personal, which had friends on their friends list which hacked Permissions Exploited FairLight Industries, and possibly other gun companies a couple of years ago, against theft Maybe, but this just doesn't look good in my eyes.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/farnorth/3500316366/

I have never in my life from my entire time on the main grid myself been accused of theft by anyone, or actually any warnings, or DMCA notices from Linden Lab beyond the accusations from Skills Hak, or Zfire Xue, otherwise I have never really had any issues, and anything, or anyone claiming to do stuff in my name is obviously a griefer as again I am not that dumb, and yeah this doesn't count a little incident I had on the other grid.

I try my best not to show hate towards individuals, and users in SL who do wrong things, but this has gone on for years towards myself & others I know, & nope I have not banned Skills Hak, or anyone else from my lands personally, as they are more than free themselves to check for CopyBot items by me, or are more than welcome to report people who they see knowingly using & Or distribution of such.

  jinxxed0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 845

7/18/11 6:09:18 AM#8

People have offered me and my friend a ban list system or whatever. Like some sort of grid wide ban list of griefers or whatever years ago. We lol'd and said no. Just because we run a freebie place and buy full perm items/kits to make no tran freebies, people give us death threats (which of course LL does nothing about). So we knw for a fact that we're likely to end up on this retarded list.

 

The people in this game are so crazy and annoying. I dont even care if someone copybots my original creations and rips the textures. I've noticed people that copybot and rip textures either dont care about making money or (for the most part) lack any kind of skills to market the stuff they copy (or as some would put it, stealing. but copying isnt stealing). Because they stand there with their goofy looking avatar holding the product or something and take a crappy snap shot and use that as a vendor picture. Or make a horible one in MS paint. 

 

People in SL get so angry so easily. me and my friend have been banned over BS. Each and everytime, we'd write a ticket and 2 weeks lter LL unbans us AFTER reviewing the case and noticing that we did nothing wrong. My friend bought full perm item and sold them no trans at 10L each. Then the idiot that was selling them at full perms reporter him for not selling stuff at a certain price. LL then goes into my friend's account, deletes the item and then purges ALL of his trash folder. They've done this twice so far. LL is retarded and needs to read their own ToS (section 7)

  Dres

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 1

7/22/11 3:18:38 PM#9

I just posted this comment on the JIRA before I noticed your link to this site. I'm reposting it here because I wouldn't be surprized if it mysteriously disappears.

Quote:

@Alexa: Am I reading this correctly? Are you honestly suggesting that this should be posted to a thread in the forum? In order to discuss this matter, the names of these systems would have to be included in that discussion meaning the thread would be pulled quicker than you can spit.

And what good would it possibly do to take it to IMs? Seems to me all you and LL are interested in is brushing this issue under the rug. While this JIRA was originally about RedZone, the violation is still going on... you could take out the name RedZone and replace it with a place holder where any of these systems' names could be inserted. How would it be beneficial to create separate JIRAs for every one of these systems? The problem is the same no matter what.

I would suggest you and LL provide us a place where this can be discussed instead of leading the discussion into a dead end. Perhaps an all encompassing JIRA could be created... would that be an alternative? Or would it just be shut down like you are trying to do here? Something needs to be done.

...Dres

End of quote.

It amazes me that a Linden would suggest you break CS by trying to start the discussion in the forum... totally clueless.

...Dres

  nyxium

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/09
Posts: 1198

Tumbling down the rabbit hole?

7/22/11 3:24:08 PM#10

I've been following the Red Zone scandal with interest over the past 6 to 7 months. I concluded then that while Red Zone was useful to sim owners it was, like most things that give power, too open to abuse. Better to be safe than sorry which means I wasn't sorry when RZ was removed from SL.

  Treephrog

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/09
Posts: 16

7/26/11 2:59:25 PM#11
Originally posted by Strafingmir

While yes there are security concerns, The CDS Relay does it's job and keeps copy botters out of shops that decide to put it in. 

No, it absolutely does not. While it may slow down some of the stupid people, the few clever ones keep right on keeping on... and it's the clever ones you should be worried about. CDS is a useless pile of garbage that a bunch of gullible people paid a griefer for.

  ultrastoat

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/14/10
Posts: 144

7/26/11 3:10:53 PM#12

It's reasons like this that I left SL.

I owned a very succesful business there for three years (LSI, Lunar Studios International), and just one day decided to give up. It became me trying to sell wares against other artists who would stop at nothing to use underhanded and childish tactics to steal business (plopping bots on my land that would spew out landmarks to their store, publicly boycotting my brand because I refused to give them half my stock for free with full permissions, invading my premises with grey goo, etc), as well as trying to survive in a "game" that is nothing but drama and sex 80% of the time. 10% of the remaining time it's script kiddies ruining everyone's fun and making EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED MERCHANT PARANOID ( I never had anti-copybot spam in my store. I never lost revenue because of the deal, and I hardly ever caught my stuff being resold. If it was being resold, it was one of my full-perm texture packs and really who can keep up with that?). 

What's the remaining 10% you ask? LL being incompetent. Covering up huge fiascos like this because the resident in question makes more money or owns more virtual land. 

 

Welcome to Second Life. We're incompetent, but at least there's porn and "women" here!

  Strafingmir

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/11
Posts: 24

7/28/11 5:57:17 AM#13
Originally posted by Treephrog
Originally posted by Strafingmir

While yes there are security concerns, The CDS Relay does it's job and keeps copy botters out of shops that decide to put it in. 

No, it absolutely does not. While it may slow down some of the stupid people, the few clever ones keep right on keeping on... and it's the clever ones you should be worried about. CDS is a useless pile of garbage that a bunch of gullible people paid a griefer for.

That's an interesting statement since yes there are ways to get around CDS, ways a plenty, But the fact remains most of the butthurt surrounding CDS is from former copy botters that weren't clever enough to avoid bans. Otherwise CDS doesn't really effect you now does it?

  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 934

 
OP  8/06/11 8:00:17 PM#14
Originally posted by Strafingmir
Originally posted by Treephrog
Originally posted by Strafingmir

While yes there are security concerns, The CDS Relay does it's job and keeps copy botters out of shops that decide to put it in. 

No, it absolutely does not. While it may slow down some of the stupid people, the few clever ones keep right on keeping on... and it's the clever ones you should be worried about. CDS is a useless pile of garbage that a bunch of gullible people paid a griefer for.

That's an interesting statement since yes there are ways to get around CDS, ways a plenty, But the fact remains most of the butthurt surrounding CDS is from former copy botters that weren't clever enough to avoid bans. Otherwise CDS doesn't really effect you now does it?

http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/2011/08/01/redzone-creator-goes-to-prison/#more-5011 BTW Zfire creator of Red Zone  got arrested.

 Okay so lets just say that CDS may stop  very stupid CopyBot who obviously knows nothing, but fact is that most CopyBot's I see in Second Life are part of known griefer groups who do not care if they get banned or not because they just come back, and everyone knows that by disabling media they can get past CDS now, let alone the media filter blocks CDS too.

What about all the users of There.com, who come into Second Life to do nothing but grief, In fact I just read and responded to an article where an Admin of Buried in Second Life griefed a newbie resident, and is a member of buried, and I know Juggy who copybot many users brought harm to Teens I knew in Second Life, and gave them a bunch of stolen crap to the point where none of us wanted them around was a member of there.com as well. On top of this there is an Estate Company called MDV Estates, they are a member of there.com and have 5 regions too where some of their friends have connections with CopyBots from Bloodlines RP a clan I was part of in the past, and they tried to BlackMail me in SL, but I just released all the logs public on other sites because I dont give into that type of stuff, and I could care less.

Bottom Line is that Even though these people are all connected to There.com which is another online game, I can't accuse everyone of doing illegal stuff until I actually prove it before I say anything, but I can use this as a starting line when it comes to investergation of griefer incidents in SL, and abuse reporting, doesn't mean just because a person is a member of that service or anything I will file an abuse report or anything just means that I keep an eye out on them and any alts I can track back of their and their friends, but again I have other methods of doing this that go beyond Media, or CDS, and I have a lot of contacts throught SL.

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=MDV+Estates&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=68b3f9ae28a95316&biw=1280&bih=858

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/83/view/forums/thread/322194/Really-Rude-Shop-Owners-in-Second-Life.html

My problem with CDS, is that Skills Hak has been caught working right along side other Emerald Developers who he knew were CopyBots Jcool410, Fractured Crystal, Lonely Bluebird, yet Myself I learn about the CopyBot because i was in a group full of Copybots doing this behind my back, and I pass the information I know to Skills Hak because's Emerald Developer friend about it because I thought CDS would be the End to theft, but my name gets add to the Ban list from everywhere simply because I know about it, yet his friends run deep even within Some of the Second Life Militaries Skills Hak has friends who support him.

CDS has brought nothing but harassment to many residents on this grid, beyond the fact that it bans people who are suspected of malicious activities CDS can't prove what viewer a person is on, and the evidence is kept private in a data base, and on top of that no appeals are respond to unless you are a close friend of Skills Hak, so therefore I find that CDS is in violation of our privacy unless it asks consent to scan us, that it defames residents and is harassment, but Linden lab does nothing about this because he owns like 4 or 5 Estates in Second Life and is a developer.

IF CDS could prevent copybotting, then why beyond my account being accused and banned by his system with no response from Skills or his friends could I still make an alt, Log behind a couple of VPN's spoof my MAC, Change my router and go CopyBot 5 entire stores leave them in a sandbox if I wanted, get banned from SL and LL would never touch my main account?

So Yeah fact is it might stop people who know nothing but most Griefers & CopyBots are people who don't care about being banned anyways, or know how to bypass a ban, or get back in SL even after getting banned from CDS, or by Linden Lab. This system has done nothing but cause a Panic, it cost Linden Lab profit, it even caused Creators to loose money because no one really wants to risk going to a shop and getting scanned anymore by these systems, Sure theft is a problem, but this is worse, did I even say that no one wants to go to clubs like *No Salvation* anymore becuase they used CDS there and scanned many residents without consent while most people usually enable SL media to play their music.

And these are the reasons it still needs to be removed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqW0A0PLhQ0 This video for example.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/83/view/forums/thread/322843/Age-Verification-without-any-ID.html Linden Lab security.

  jinxxed0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 845

8/18/11 1:32:33 AM#15
Originally posted by nhavas

It's reasons like this that I left SL.

I owned a very succesful business there for three years (LSI, Lunar Studios International), and just one day decided to give up. It became me trying to sell wares against other artists who would stop at nothing to use underhanded and childish tactics to steal business (plopping bots on my land that would spew out landmarks to their store, publicly boycotting my brand because I refused to give them half my stock for free with full permissions, invading my premises with grey goo, etc), as well as trying to survive in a "game" that is nothing but drama and sex 80% of the time. 10% of the remaining time it's script kiddies ruining everyone's fun and making EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMNED MERCHANT PARANOID ( I never had anti-copybot spam in my store. I never lost revenue because of the deal, and I hardly ever caught my stuff being resold. If it was being resold, it was one of my full-perm texture packs and really who can keep up with that?). 

What's the remaining 10% you ask? LL being incompetent. Covering up huge fiascos like this because the resident in question makes more money or owns more virtual land. 

 

Welcome to Second Life. We're incompetent, but at least there's porn and "women" here!

You shouldn't have given up, because they would have given up eventually. What sucks is that a lot of great merchants have left along with their products and services, and so have the reasons that made them leave.  Theres alsways gonna be problems, but thats the nature of a game with this much freedom, you just have get back up and kick SL in the nuts and tell it to give you more linden dollars. And then tell it you only hurt it because you love it to mess with its head.

  MeerieBella

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 29

1/17/12 10:21:43 PM#16

This was one of the reasons why I don't bother to log into second-life anymore.

With all the perverts running about as it is now there's users/groups out there who are using these spyware programs to cause potential damage to people in SL AND their Real-life.

A lot of furry-groups have gotten involved in these spyware programs/groups. Which is the main reasons I stay away from furry groups as much as possible simply because they have turned from a fun, internet-driven group to this paranoid, pervie, arrogant creature spreading itself in Second-Life.

Yuck.

Then there's groups pretending to be some linden-lab abiding police-force who end up causing the most damage to second-life in the long-run. These ones end up always being the guys who view their avatars as their real-life counterparts.

 

Linden Labs sits does nothing to prevent/fix these abuses. They focus highly upon 'undesirable behavior' which would be considered normal in mmorpg's, but turn a blind-eye to spyware. When Red-Zone's issue was finally exposed it took 3rd party viewers to create a patch to notify users of suspicious IP connections to their viewers.

Linden Lab still hasn't adressed the spyware issue to this date.