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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Wizardry Online = Permadeath+Horror-Setting+Mazes (New details from E3)

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153 posts found
  Getalife

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 832

6/11/11 4:57:57 AM#121
Originally posted by picommander
Originally posted by alderdale
Originally posted by Brif

This is what I've been waiting for

 You and a handfull of other people.   For all the other people thats needed to keep a game in business, the will show up kick the tires and wander off because of the rule set.  Enjoy the ghost town that will become this game over time.

These "handful" of people I guess are half of a nation meanwhile, all players feeling uncared by current mainstream crap. Wizardry btw. was kinda introduction of CRPGs into the mainstream for itself. But the foundation was done by roguelikes where perma death was everydays bread and butter. Money corrupted all of the better ideas into good looking, pointless fluffiness. Actually I hardly can believe this dream will become true...

Bookmark this post and visit back once game is out. but make sure you do because your claim regarding 'half a nation' is going to be proven wrong. Don't be surprised if this game dwindles and disappear under the radar like many other asian F2P titles.

Funny though it is not even a MMORPG. So your comparison makes little sense.

  bobfish

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1630

6/11/11 10:40:20 AM#122

Everything about this sounds great, except Permadeath+Open PvP. One or the other, but not both please.

 

I don't want to lose my character because of some dick PKer who camps my corpse and never lets me get it back.

  redcap036

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1236

6/11/11 10:52:35 PM#123

I remember the Wizardy series having an element of si-fi as well, I wonder if this new game will also have si-fi in it as well?

  User Deleted
6/11/11 11:07:41 PM#124

if leveling up,aquiering items and skills, is so damn fun that i want to permadie so i can do all of it over again...then i am all for it..however i cant help but think that introducing permadeath is a great way to give people reasons to quit, when they would have just kept playing.

im interested, however i dont see permadeath being a big hit...hell most gamers cant get over the loss of pixles when refering to full loot pvp...how the hell are they expecting to draw an audience who could possibly lose their loot and their character.

will be a good way to create an enviroment where no one takes any risk and avoids permadeath at all costs...not sure that something that will work well.

best of luck to them, and im sure ill give it a go just because its diffrent, despite the fact that i hate the games name....wisardry online doesn scream "horror and permadeath" to me...

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1058

6/11/11 11:16:13 PM#125

I'd say I'm one of the few people on this site who played and beat Wizardry on the Nintendo. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly that was also permadeath. I can't remember exactly how it worked, since that was about 20 years ago. I do remember it was one of the toughest games I've ever played.

I really enjoyed that game. Heck, normally I buy a game play it for a week or two and don't even bother trying to beat it. I think it says something about how good that game was for me to stick it out and beat it.

 

I don't see much of an audience for permadeath, though. I guess we'll have to see how its implemented.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15527

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

6/11/11 11:17:13 PM#126

I'm not sure I like the idea of a MT game like this, if they plan on a P2W formula anyway.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Myrdynn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/25/07
Posts: 1387

6/12/11 1:01:01 AM#127
Originally posted by Golelorn

I'd say I'm one of the few people on this site who played and beat Wizardry on the Nintendo. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly that was also permadeath. I can't remember exactly how it worked, since that was about 20 years ago. I do remember it was one of the toughest games I've ever played.

I really enjoyed that game. Heck, normally I buy a game play it for a week or two and don't even bother trying to beat it. I think it says something about how good that game was for me to stick it out and beat it.

 

I don't see much of an audience for permadeath, though. I guess we'll have to see how its implemented.

the difference was that Wizardry series was a group based rpg, and as long as 1 member got back to town alive you were able to be rezzed.  Permadeath could only occur when your party wiped in the dungeon, and you had to take another person back down to try to corpse retrieve.  Sometimes corpses were "lost"

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/12/11 1:03:01 AM#128
Originally posted by gaeanprayer
Originally posted by Yuui

For those interested, this bit of Massively article is interesting:
To blunt the pain of a permanent character loss, players can stash gear, weapons, and valuables in a "cloak room" that is accessible to their next toons.

basically you can still retain your valuables if you manage your inventory well and do not play around the places for weeks with crowded inventory :)

I knew it! I knew they'd do something to make it a bit less harsh, but I actually think that's a good idea. That's a little like Salem's idea of perma-death, with your children being able to make use of all that you acquired over your last character's lifetime. To me, this makes a lot more sense.

The only issue is people will end up leaving all their Uber gear at home so as not to lose it, but that's sort of to be expected. Still, I see this is a reasonable compromise. I still think it will have a niche audience, but I see a lot less rage-quitting with this as a feature.

Why would people rage quiting that make no sense at all?

If you buy game blindly with no knowledge at all about the game what the game is all about and find out when you die and cant recover your corspe you have start over again i can understand your upset but still its 100% your own fault you did not investigate first what the game is all about.

But if you buy the game with knowledge that it have perma death and its very hardcore then rage quit is pathetic.

But i dunno about cashshop what it will sell but if its items to survive better this game will fail 100% in west, only those who willing to spent alot money will win thats stupid. If its fluff then its ok im not intrested in how someone looks for me the gameplay counts specially hardcore.

  redcap036

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1236

6/12/11 1:19:30 AM#129
Why is everyone being a bunch of P*ssies about PERMADEATH, gee's this game is not even out yet and you know’it’all fools think you got it suss'ed out ..Again," OMG, he's camping my corpse and ganking me every time I come near it, oh WOE is me!" how do you know that’s the way it will be, you can't and you don’t know, because it's not even released yet and even if it does, what’s the big deal, have you ever read the EULA on any game, you don't even own your characters, so why are you crying over spilt milk, roll and a new toon and get on with it or go find a game you do like, really it's like someone only has to mention PERMADEATH and everyone’s up in arms, “Oh no please protect my precious character!” what are you all plan on moving into this game world and living there or something?
 
Really you all are just only focusing on the negative, PERMADEATH brings good things to a games as well, like the fact that players won’t play them like there Duke Nuk’em anymore, or maybe that’s what your all really scared of losing,  PERMADEATH will mean coordination and team skills and I mean real teams, not just being in a group and chatting about your day and sh*t, but planning out how to take down that evil big monster/s that just kill the other team, or figuring out how to bypass that nasty trap and even if there is a dirty low down F’n PK’ers in the game, imagine how it would feel when you and your team kill them off and know they’re the ones who have to start all over again, is this not what we want in games now, or are do we all still prefer the tread mill because it’s the safest route and easiest way to end game, come on we all whine about how all the games are clones of each other, but when a game company does try to put back in something that actually made games fun to play, you lot go polar and start a hate brigade …Again.
 
All I’m saying is let’s do something different this time and give this game a chance with PERMADEATH and all it has to offer and if you don’t like it, then go and play one of the hundreds of thousand games that don’t have PERMADEATH and even if this game does fail because of PERMADEATH, so what you didn’t play it what’s it to you, you will be safe in your nice NON- PERMADEATH game.
Personally I can’t wait for Wizardry online, even if it’s only here for a short time it will be fresh air compared to the stale skinner box games of the last five years, looks like another king is on the way back!
  MentalCrash

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 23

6/12/11 1:25:12 AM#130

someone got a link to the website for this? I`m digging this. Miss the Old EQ days on the Discord server which was short lived..

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

6/12/11 1:34:28 AM#131
Originally posted by redcap036
Why is everyone being a bunch of P*ssies about PERMADEATH, gee's this game is not even out yet and you know’it’all fools think you got it suss'ed out ..Again," OMG, he's camping my corpse and ganking me every time I come near it, oh WOE is me!" how do you know that’s the way it will be, you can't and you don’t know, because it's not even released yet and even if it does, what’s the big deal, have you ever read the EULA on any game, you don't even own your characters, so why are you crying over spilt milk, roll and a new toon and get on with it or go find a game you do like, really it's like someone only has to mention PERMADEATH and everyone’s up in arms, “Oh no please protect my precious character!” what are you all plan on moving into this game world and living there or something?
 
Really you all are just only focusing on the negative, PERMADEATH brings good things to a games as well, like the fact that players won’t play them like there Duke Nuk’em anymore, or maybe that’s what your all really scared of losing,  PERMADEATH will mean coordination and team skills and I mean real teams, not just being in a group and chatting about your day and sh*t, but planning out how to take down that evil big monster/s that just kill the other team, or figuring out how to bypass that nasty trap and even if there is a dirty low down F’n PK’ers in the game, imagine how it would feel when you and your team kill them off and know they’re the ones who have to start all over again, is this not what we want in games now, or are do we all still prefer the tread mill because it’s the safest route and easiest way to end game, come on we all whine about how all the games are clones of each other, but when a game company does try to put back in something that actually made games fun to play, you lot go polar and start a hate brigade …Again.
 
All I’m saying is let’s do something different this time and give this game a chance with PERMADEATH and all it has to offer and if you don’t like it, then go and play one of the hundreds of thousand games that don’t have PERMADEATH and even if this game does fail because of PERMADEATH, so what you didn’t play it what’s it to you, you will be safe in your nice NON- PERMADEATH game.
Personally I can’t wait for Wizardry online, even if it’s only here for a short time it will be fresh air compared to the stale skinner box games of the last five years, looks like another king is on the way back!

Its seems there all forced to play this game if they refuse they are killed in real life it seems:P

So now they keep comming in waves over and over again on forums like a big Tsunami try convince devs to get rid of permadeath then hardcore gameplay untill its WoW like and they can play without risk on easy mode:P

  biffbaxter

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 4

6/12/11 1:59:51 AM#132

Im in :) - I will be a sucker for this one. I used to break in to my High School to play Wizardry on the single Apple II+ we had for hours...I bought all the Wizardry maps via mail order that were sent to me on graph paper (Felt like I was a cold war spy when they arrived in plain manilla envelope). I sure hope I can cast a Katino and run away when needed :).

Bring on permadeath and dungeons with no minimap. I will finally get to pull out my graph paper again and get to some serious adventuring :)....unfortunately the game will likely not allow for turns, so my ass will be toast when trying to map and adventure...ha....oh crap when did I get old.

I sure hope the western US port of this game see's the light of day.

biff

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

 
OP  6/12/11 5:53:13 AM#133

http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/06/e3-2011-wizardry-online-aiming-to-be-un.html

The original article mentioned in this article pretty much goes on about faithfulness(they are trying to get spells, gameplay mechanics, dungeon mechanics, etc to work as close as possible to the 8 games of Wizardry franchise). It also talks on how npc prices of items might not be fair everywhere(some npcs basically love to scam players by selling items for a higher price than worth and some npc prices will depend on their alignment with you.)

The article also notes that the game is trying to recapture that "where the hell am I?" feeling that the franchise had and that players will need to think how to do various things and thats not only about mazes, but about quests, puzzles, defeating the monsters, etc.

Character creation has a very randomized attribute dice roll(the way it would usually be done in dnd rulesets, tabletop games and older rpg games). The devs do not want to reveal exactly on how many dices it is, but it ensures that every character will be very different. Also the game won't rely on player levels that much - its more on how you play, what are your weaknesses and strengths and how you use all what you have at hand.

Dungeons have hidden paths, secrets, alternate passages, traps, etc.

The key-word of Wizardry Online is "un-casual" and devs completely understand that it is hard to achieve and to balance it, and they know the dangers of developing such game, but they are not making it to be hardcore for the sake of being hardcore. They are trying to achieve the hardcore that is fun and competitive - something that they feel is missing in present day games. Nowadays mmos seem to be all about "lets rush to the highest level" and thats not what wizardry is about. They are designing the game to be for those who actually like to think, want to play and want their achievements to mean something more than "____ of exp gained, yay".


The game atmosphere is designed to be very intense and dark. while surface and inhabited towns look quite bright, they contrast very well with the dungeons that have limited light radius and pretty much no cheery or relaxing stuff. Dungeon is a dungeon and not a playground.

Article also talks a bit about 30 year anniversary of wizardry franchise and how it was celebrated in japan, that the wizardry games still sell very well and that many japanese including the devs hold those games as the sacred thing, something that paved the way for the rpg genre in the world. Apparently they shown the interviewer the original appleII version of the first game complete with package in the office.

They then talk about what differs Wizardry Online from the previous parts of franchise - the first is that the combat is not turn based and that party members are not npcs(however game still requires a great party coordination and you won't go far alone there)

Item mall will mostly contain stuff like fashions, experience boosts, some additional challenges, etc. It won't contain equips, stat changers or any sort of thing to avoid permadeath.

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  redcap036

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1236

6/12/11 7:59:58 AM#134
Originally posted by Yuui

http://www.mmoculture.com/2011/06/e3-2011-wizardry-online-aiming-to-be-un.html

The original article mentioned in this article pretty much goes on about faithfulness(they are trying to get spells, gameplay mechanics, dungeon mechanics, etc to work as close as possible to the 8 games of Wizardry franchise). It also talks on how npc prices of items might not be fair everywhere(some npcs basically love to scam players by selling items for a higher price than worth and some npc prices will depend on their alignment with you.)

The article also notes that the game is trying to recapture that "where the hell am I?" feeling that the franchise had and that players will need to think how to do various things and thats not only about mazes, but about quests, puzzles, defeating the monsters, etc.

Character creation has a very randomized attribute dice roll(the way it would usually be done in dnd rulesets, tabletop games and older rpg games). The devs do not want to reveal exactly on how many dices it is, but it ensures that every character will be very different. Also the game won't rely on player levels that much - its more on how you play, what are your weaknesses and strengths and how you use all what you have at hand.

Dungeons have hidden paths, secrets, alternate passages, traps, etc.

The key-word of Wizardry Online is "un-casual" and devs completely understand that it is hard to achieve and to balance it, and they know the dangers of developing such game, but they are not making it to be hardcore for the sake of being hardcore. They are trying to achieve the hardcore that is fun and competitive - something that they feel is missing in present day games. Nowadays mmos seem to be all about "lets rush to the highest level" and thats not what wizardry is about. They are designing the game to be for those who actually like to think, want to play and want their achievements to mean something more than "____ of exp gained, yay".


The game atmosphere is designed to be very intense and dark. while surface and inhabited towns look quite bright, they contrast very well with the dungeons that have limited light radius and pretty much no cheery or relaxing stuff. Dungeon is a dungeon and not a playground.

Article also talks a bit about 30 year anniversary of wizardry franchise and how it was celebrated in japan, that the wizardry games still sell very well and that many japanese including the devs hold those games as the sacred thing, something that paved the way for the rpg genre in the world. Apparently they shown the interviewer the original appleII version of the first game complete with package in the office.

They then talk about what differs Wizardry Online from the previous parts of franchise - the first is that the combat is not turn based and that party members are not npcs(however game still requires a great party coordination and you won't go far alone there)

Item mall will mostly contain stuff like fashions, experience boosts, some additional challenges, etc. It won't contain equips, stat changers or any sort of thing to avoid permadeath.

 

 F'n EXCELLENT, this game will be a hurricane of freash air compared to all mmorpg's of the last five years or so,  I can't wait, cheers for the read Yuui.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

6/12/11 8:02:07 AM#135
Originally posted by Yuui

Item mall will mostly contain stuff like fashions, experience boosts, some additional challenges, etc. It won't contain equips, stat changers or any sort of thing to avoid permadeath.

 

That last part actually fixes one of my worries.

Permadeath fixed by cash shop is just a way to gouge money, no longer a good game mechanism. :(

  redcap036

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1236

6/12/11 9:09:46 AM#136
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by Yuui

Item mall will mostly contain stuff like fashions, experience boosts, some additional challenges, etc. It won't contain equips, stat changers or any sort of thing to avoid permadeath.

 

That last part actually fixes one of my worries.

Permadeath fixed by cash shop is just a way to gouge money, no longer a good game mechanism. :(

 Sorry meowhead, but your last post didn't make sense and I think you may have mis-read it as Yuui states that the cash shop Won't contain anything to help players get around or bypass permadeath.

Or is there something I missed?

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

 
OP  6/12/11 9:22:25 AM#137


Originally posted by redcap036


Originally posted by Meowhead


Originally posted by Yuui


Item mall will mostly contain stuff like fashions, experience boosts, some additional challenges, etc. It won't contain equips, stat changers or any sort of thing to avoid permadeath.
 


That last part actually fixes one of my worries.
Permadeath fixed by cash shop is just a way to gouge money, no longer a good game mechanism. :(


 Sorry meowhead, but your last post didn't make sense and I think you may have mis-read it as Yuui states that the cash shop Won't contain anything to help players get around or bypass permadeath.
Or is there something I missed?


I am pretty sure meowhead meant that

fixes = removes that worry :)

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

6/12/11 9:34:43 AM#138
Originally posted by Yuui

 

I am pretty sure meowhead meant that

fixes = removes that worry :)

Exactly. :)

I was worrying about a permadeath + cash shop cure method (There are some Asian F2P games that use that method), and now I am not worrying about it.

My worry has been fixed!

  Yuui

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 722

 
OP  6/12/11 11:58:33 AM#139

There are more details on dying:

- when you die, You can sacrifice items you carry to decrease the chance of dropping something.
- Once you are killed you enter the Ghost mode and have certain amount of time to locate your boy. Its not just run, run around, there are things in the realm of the dead that would like to munch on your soul - grim reapers, Death, various creatures unseen by the living, etc. And you are defenseless to those. It opens up possibilities - do you risk and spend some time going around the place exploring it to find the things you cannot see alive(with the risk of permadying) or do you rush to your body in fear of the reapers and other things?
- There are npcs, quests, places, etc, only accessible while dead.
- There are junk items you can find to sell for money. There are valuable and rare things you can find in dungeons too. Some of them only come once per server.
- There is a sort of alignment system, so its very easy to know who has shed the blood of other players and who has played fair. Evil characters are hunted by good npcs and good guards and mostly have to live in the outskirts of the city, junkyards, other evil places.
- Don't expect too many very human-looking monsters. you might encounter few bandits or something lost in the mazes of dungeons, but dungeons are mostly homes for the very monstrous things lurking in the shadows.
- There is a court and jailing system. Details are unknown but caught pkers can be sent directly in the middle of some dark dark dungeon, where they might experience the death by the hands of the fiends existing there.
- They talk on how in old times you had games like doom that did not require visual effects to scare you, while nowadays way too many games rely on cheap scares.
- There are "named" legendary items(for example staff of gnilda) that have their own backstory and can be changed in various unique ways(for example you might need to enter the ruins that used to be the home of the creator of that item, locate a secret room and there sacrifice your own blood to empower it into something different)
- Some dungeons are so big that it might take up to 7 hours just to find a place where you can ascend/descend into another floor.
- Some dungeons can be mapped and you can sell those maps to other players, some dungeons are "possessed" and change layouts, some dungeons might have places completely shrouded in darkness so you might be going blind even if that dungeon had a map mapped for you. There are lanterns, candles, light-magic and other things that you can use to increase your sight radius, so if you go into a deeper dungeon, its wise to have a few light sources in your pack so you do not walk straight into the jaws of some demon. The general idea is that the deeper you go, the less of natural light sources(sun, etc) you have available. The goal is to create a claustrophobic adrenaline-filled feeling, feeding off the fear of the dark.
- The combat has lock-on feature, but contains active dodge and twitch combat. Some creatures have attacks that might kill you no matter the amount of hp you might have. However lock on does not limit your targets, only focuses your camera - you can still attack other things in range of your weapons.
- Some humongous monsters must be attacked in speciffic parts of their body, some places might have monsters higher in size than one floor so party might have to split - one attacking in another floor the head, others in another floor the foot, for example. A lot of party coordination needed. Some monsters need to be hid in specific parts for other vulnerable parts to be available - for example a character in the lowest floor might need to damage a foot a lot, so the monster covers it iwth his hand allowing the guys on the above floor aim for the eyes.
- Its not clear but you might allow other player to pick up your body and bring it to the church or you.
- There is a thing called "Akashic records"(those interested google it), so your character might share memories of various things with your previous character or even character of player you never knew.
- There might be rewards for those who find or figure out things for the first time. (for example the first one to acquire muramasa blade, might obtain a specific choice that affects what happens in server connected to story of that item.)
- GOOD and EVIL alignment unlocks storyline quests, dungeons, skills, character design features, etc.
-Npc alignment offers opportunities -for example if you keep selling armors to one blacksmith he might strike a deal with you, but in result his rival will hate you.
- They are planning to have a memorable and atmospheric soundtrack with mix of orchestral songs, guitarwork as well as Dir En Grey songs. More ambient pieces will be similar to works of Yamaoka Akira(of silent hill fame)

# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON

  wesjr

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/04
Posts: 360

6/12/11 12:11:43 PM#140

Man, that trailer was awesome!

 

I love how it looked like the warrior had him only to get torn apart, when the other guy was like screw this and took off   lol

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