1.  Star Wars Galaxies was released at least 6 months too early.  This was 100% Lucas Art's decision as the publisher of SWG.  This is not speculation as most things NGE are, this is fact.

2.  Lucas Arts did a terrible job of marketing SWG.  This looks to be a non issue as less advertisibng is even needed these days, but they are getting SWTOR out there.  will they continue to do it after launch?

3.  Lucas Arts handcuffs SoE's development.  Every last thing SoE wants to do they need to get approval from SWG.  Even for bug fixes and such.

4.  This goes big with #3.  We dont know for sure how much of the NGE LA demanded.  As much as the signs point tot hem at the very least beign responsible for the 'iconic classes', we dont know for sure.  We do know this: LUCAS ARTS APPROVED THE NGE.  They let it go in immediately after an expansion.  they did not inform the customers it was coming.  All the petty things that LA denied SoE over the years but this they allow?

Now its doubtful that SWTOR would need to be NGE'd, but Lucas Arts was very impatient last time.  If this game doesnt have good retention will they panic again?  I think the game will do well so a lot of this will be moot, but anyone who isnt at least a bit skeptical is nuts. 

    Not that I disbelieve you, but I would like to know where you get your facts from.  Until then I will have to assume it is nothing more than speculation.

    Also, before you are so quick to defend SOE, you might want to ask the million of their customers, whose personal information was recently stolen how they feel about SOE.  It was done very easily by hackers because of that companies negligence for the past few years now.  Personally, I won't be buying ANYTHING that is made by any part of the SONY corporation for a long time because of that.

    Now maybe SWG was released by SOE too early, but I am not convinced that Lucas Arts was responsible for that now.  The company is showing a history of negligent behavior and so I am having a hard time trusting anything good (or even neutral) said about them.

Originally posted by teakbois

 

2.  Lucas Arts did a terrible job of marketing SWG.  This looks to be a non issue as less advertisibng is even needed these days, but they are getting SWTOR out there.  will they continue to do it after launch?

It's the job of the developers marketing team to market the game. Lucasarts just reserves the right to advertise it when they release dvd's etc.

 

3.  Lucas Arts handcuffs SoE's development.  Every last thing SoE wants to do they need to get approval from SWG.  Even for bug fixes and such.

 Same as in every single other major IP mmo.

4.  This goes big with #3.  We dont know for sure how much of the NGE LA demanded. 

 Going by what Nancy Mcintyre stated before the Release of the NGE, almost all of it. Thank god she's moved to a starwars game aimed at 3-8 year olds.

 

Now its doubtful that SWTOR would need to be NGE'd, but Lucas Arts was very impatient last time.  If this game doesnt have good retention will they panic again?  I think the game will do well so a lot of this will be moot, but anyone who isnt at least a bit skeptical is nuts. 

 

Lucasarts / EA and Bioware have all said in multiple interviews that the developers basically have complete free reign over the game, as long as they stick to Starwars lore and dont introduce things like a mutant pink hippo intent on destroying tattooine.

Originally posted by GMan3

    Not that I disbelieve you, but I would like to know where you get your facts from.  Until then I will have to assume it is nothing more than speculation.

    Also, before you are so quick to defend SOE, you might want to ask the million of their customers, whose personal information was recently stolen how they feel about SOE.  It was done very easily by hackers because of that companies negligence for the past few years now.  Personally, I won't be buying ANYTHING that is made by any part of the SONY corporation for a long time because of that.

    Now maybe SWG was released by SOE too early, but I am not convinced that Lucas Arts was responsible for that now.  The company is showing a history of negligent behavior and so I am having a hard time trusting anything good (or even neutral) said about them.

Not really speculation at all.  Lucas Arts is 100% the publisher of Star Wars Galaxies.  SoE publishes most of their games, but not SWG.  The publisher is the one that determines release dates and does the marketing.   There is no doubt SWg was released at least 6 months too early and a lot of people would agree that the early release is the prime reason it went from 500k users to the less than 200k users it had at the time of the NGE's release.

And this was also confirmed by one of SWG's developers that posted on this site a few years back.

And the bit about Lucas Arts having full control over every little detail that goes into SWG is widely known, at least by SWG players.

And I didnt defend SoE at all.  If people want to not buy their prodcuts because Sony doesnt think security was worth heavily investing in, thats fine (however if you think they are the only major corporation that does this you are incredibly naive).  if you want to boycott SoE games because of the NGE thats fine too.  It was absolutely dispicable to put it in unannounced right after an expansion, and even if it was LA's call entirely to do it SoE should have stood up for their customers more.  However, it is 100% hypocritical to boycott SoE because of the NGE and be gung ho about playing SWTOR

Originally posted by GMan3

 

    Also, before you are so quick to defend SOE, you might want to ask the million of their customers, whose personal information was recently stolen how they feel about SOE.  It was done very easily by hackers because of that companies negligence for the past few years now.  Personally, I won't be buying ANYTHING that is made by any part of the SONY corporation for a long time because of that.

   

There is no proof that any data was actually taken. The database was accessed, but since it was 4chans anonymous morons that hacked it, i'd say that no data was actually taken.

Everything the FBI, and SOE did was precautionary as required by federal law, should something like this happen.

Originally posted by toodlepip123

Originally posted by teakbois

 

2.  Lucas Arts did a terrible job of marketing SWG.  This looks to be a non issue as less advertisibng is even needed these days, but they are getting SWTOR out there.  will they continue to do it after launch?

It's the job of the developers marketing team to market the game. Lucasarts just reserves the right to advertise it when they release dvd's etc.

 

 

It was stated by a SWG developer that LA was repsonisble for the marketing of SWG 100%

However, SoEs track record with marketing is abysmal so it wouldnt have mattered much most likely.  SoE's biggest marketing bit that i can remember was /pizza.

Originally posted by toodlepip123

Originally posted by GMan3

 

    Also, before you are so quick to defend SOE, you might want to ask the million of their customers, whose personal information was recently stolen how they feel about SOE.  It was done very easily by hackers because of that companies negligence for the past few years now.  Personally, I won't be buying ANYTHING that is made by any part of the SONY corporation for a long time because of that.

   

There is no proof that any data was actually taken. The database was accessed, but since it was 4chans anonymous morons that hacked it, i'd say that no data was actually taken.

 

Everything the FBI, and SOE did was precautionary as required by federal law, should something like this happen.

However Sony's parent corporation obviously did have data taken, and published.  i dont blame people for assocating that with SoE, because its obviously where SoE's lax security ideals came from.  Again though, I dont think most major corporations, at least ones that predate the internet age, are really much better.

I dont give my real info out anyway because I believe my data isnt fully safe anywhere.  the list of things that has been hacked this year is pretty staggering.  Sony made it easy, but they liekly would have gotten what they wanted anyway.

All of the points about if it was SOE or Lucas Arts who screwed up SWG is moot. SWTOR is being developed by Bioware, and EA is the publisher. They licensed the IP from Lucas Arts but Lucas Arts can't tell them when to release and how to build the game. They can limit how much freedom they have with the IP, but that is about it. Even the freedom is moot. It is Star Wars. As long as they make it witht he Star Wars setting and history, they are fine. They can even create new history, as they are currently doing, as long as it doesn't already tread upon existing history.

I have no doubt that Lucas Arts will not be able to screw this up, even if it was them that screwed up SWG. Sure they have some Lucas Arts people working closely on the project, but it is to make sure they are making an iconic Star Wars game. Since this game is not set during the films, Bioware seems to have tons of freedom.

Originally posted by teakbois

1.  Star Wars Galaxies was released at least 6 months too early.  This was 100% Lucas Art's decision as the publisher of SWG.  This is not speculation as most things NGE are, this is fact.

 

2.  Lucas Arts did a terrible job of marketing SWG.  This looks to be a non issue as less advertisibng is even needed these days, but they are getting SWTOR out there.  will they continue to do it after launch?

 

3.  Lucas Arts handcuffs SoE's development.  Every last thing SoE wants to do they need to get approval from SWG.  Even for bug fixes and such.

 

4.  This goes big with #3.  We dont know for sure how much of the NGE LA demanded.  As much as the signs point tot hem at the very least beign responsible for the 'iconic classes', we dont know for sure.  We do know this: LUCAS ARTS APPROVED THE NGE.  They let it go in immediately after an expansion.  they did not inform the customers it was coming.  All the petty things that LA denied SoE over the years but this they allow?

 

 

Now its doubtful that SWTOR would need to be NGE'd, but Lucas Arts was very impatient last time.  If this game doesnt have good retention will they panic again?  I think the game will do well so a lot of this will be moot, but anyone who isnt at least a bit skeptical is nuts. 

[1]

SOE wasn't forced to release early.  SWG wasn't finished on time and released unfinished.  You might have a point if SOE didn't have a long history of releasing most of their mmos in similar poor shape.  For example SOE intentionally released EQ2 in poor condition just to beat WoW to market and it is still suffering from problems directly related to that choice. 

[2]

SWG was the second largest MMO at its release.  The NGE had television commercials and a very heavy media blitz. Marketing was never ever the problem for SWG. 

[3]

Just how has SOE been handcuffed?  They were allowed to add pink cherub ewoks, zombies and vampires for fucks sake.  SOE was allowed to revamp the entire gameplay not once, but TWICE!   There is nothing to support the claim that SOE was limited in what they could or could not do.  Most statements by SOE have reinforced how easy it has been to work with Lucas Arts.  More wild speculation on your part or do you have anything substantial to add to your claims?

[4]

To date several SOE developers have openly stated how they conceived and developed the NGE and that it was born internally at SOE.  

To date not one single Lucas Arts employee or SOE employee has stated that SOE was forced to do anything in regards to the NGE. 

Lucas Arts doesn't screw games up, the developers they hire to create their games do. 

Do you credit Lucas Arts with the success of KOTOR or do you credit Bioware since they were the developer of the game?  Why then would you blame Lucas Arts for the failures of SWG when SOE was the developer?

See the trend there. 

Bioware make awesome games, KOTOR was awesome even though Lucas Arts was involved.

SOE makes poor quality games and SWG was a poor quality game even though Lucas Arts was involved.

I suppose you blame warner brothers for the failure of DCU?

The big fear is how much influence Electronic Arts is going to have and all the former SWG developers working on SWTOR.  With the amount of money being invested odds are they try to play things to safe and make a boring game that emulates existing games to much, but with a star wars skin pasted on top of it.

Originally posted by Shinzou

 

 Sure they have some Lucas Arts people working closely on the project, but it is to make sure they are making an iconic Star Wars game. 

Bad choice of word there lol.  I do hope you are right though.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Shinzou

 

 Sure they have some Lucas Arts people working closely on the project, but it is to make sure they are making an iconic Star Wars game. 

Bad choice of word there lol.  I do hope you are right though.

Yes, I was cringing as I put that word in there. I hope it is iconic Star Wars, but even if it isn't I will still give it a try. It is Bioware after all. I have yet to play a Bioware game that I didn't love. Until they make a bad game I will always stick by them.

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

[1]

SOE wasn't forced to release early.  SWG wasn't finished on time and released unfinished.  You might have a point if SOE didn't have a long history of releasing most of their mmos in similar poor shape.  For example SOE intentionally released EQ2 in poor condition just to beat WoW to market and it is still suffering from problems directly related to that choice. 

 Keep saying EQ2 was rekleased in bad shape and maybe that will make it true.  You are 100% clueless in this matter.  Did they release it early to beat WoW?  Sure, but it was also the strongest release from a technical standpoint for an AAA MMO ever until Rift came along.  It had the vast majority of its content in place (as much as games like WoW and Rift did).  there were no broken systems like you like to claim there were.  Get over it, EQ2's release was fine.  No one really knew the public wanted dumbed down until after WoW's release.

And yes, SWG wasnt finished 'on time'.  But why did Lucas Arts release it then?  They were the oens that said 'we are releasing it like this'  Not SoE.

 

[2]

SWG was the second largest MMO at its release.  The NGE had television commercials and a very heavy media blitz. Marketing was never ever the problem for SWG. 

And how big was WAR at its release?  Wasnt it also the second biggest MMO?  The NGE happened because SWG lost over half its initial population while WoW released to a few million subscribers.  It released to sales of 500k and was bleeding subs ever since, in a time when the industry was growing.  EQ1s numbers were still increasing at this time.

 

[3]

Just how has SOE been handcuffed?  They were allowed to add pink cherub ewoks, zombies and vampires for fucks sake.  SOE was allowed to revamp the entire gameplay not once, but TWICE!   There is nothing to support the claim that SOE was limited in what they could or could not do.  Most statements by SOE have reinforced how easy it has been to work with Lucas Arts.  More wild speculation on your part or do you have anything substantial to add to your claims?

 Just visit the SWG forums.  And I love how you say they were 'allowed' to revamp the gameplay.  Who is the one doing the speculating now?

[4]

To date several SOE developers have openly stated how they conceived and developed the NGE and that it was born internally at SOE.  

To date not one single Lucas Arts employee or SOE employee has stated that SOE was forced to do anything in regards to the NGE. 

 

No SoE developer has ever said they conceived the NGE.   Yes, there have been developers that stated they came up with the faster combat system.  their bosses from SoE/LA asked them how they could make the game more fun, and that is what they came up with.  Fast combat is just one part of the NGE, and not the reason why the NGE was a disaster.  Go log in with your 45 free days.  people will say 'I miss my TKA.'  'I miss the OLD CH system'  'I miss the freedom with the skill system'  'I miss my ranger'  'It sucks that Jedi are everywhere and not special like they used to be'.  You never hear 'I miss the old combat system'.

 

And I guess you have never heard of an NDA?  No one is legally allowed to tell you what was forced and what wasnt

 

 

Lucas Arts doesn't screw games up, the developers they hire to create their games do. 

 

Do you credit Lucas Arts with the success of KOTOR or do you credit Bioware since they were the developer of the game?  Why then would you blame Lucas Arts for the failures of SWG when SOE was the developer?

 

Because SWG launched in a very flawed state and if LA had aloowed SoE 6-12 more months to work on the game I feel it would have had a much more favorable reception and the NGE would never have happened.  I also feel that what killed what good there was about SWG was the removal of the skill sytem and I firmly beloeve LA was behind that change.  yes, that is speculation, but its where logic leads to.

See the trend there. 

 

Bioware make awesome games, KOTOR was awesome even though Lucas Arts was involved.

SOE makes poor quality games and SWG was a poor quality game even though Lucas Arts was involved.

This is opinion.  Neither EQ nor EQ2 is a poor quality game in my eyes (and yes, EQ was 'SoE', Smedley was the guy who hired Brad McQuaid to work on it afterall).  I didnt like SWG as it launched.  It had enormous potential though.  However, if it sucked so bad then why is there so many people so upset over the NGE?  SoE has some major issues (why arent their games ever optimized to give expected performance?)  but they have developed 4 major titles, 2 have been very good, 1 was never really allowed the chance to shine but had potential, and the other I havent played but has been a disaster for them.

I suppose you blame warner brothers for the failure of DCU?

 

No.  I havent played the game, but I do think SoE didnt understand the audience for this game.  I was talking to a friend from work before it launched who is a big console gamer.  he and his son were psyched for this game.  He had no clue it had a monthly fee and once he found that off he was instantly turned off.  Cant comment further because I have yet to tr the game, and wont because super hero games have no interest to me.

 

 

 

The big fear is how much influence Electronic Arts is going to have and all the former SWG developers working on SWTOR.  With the amount of money being invested odds are they try to play things to safe and make a boring game that emulates existing games to much, but with a star wars skin pasted on top of it.

 

You can emulate a lot of aspects of WoW and still come out ok.  Where Rift failed was emulating its endgame activities and not adding any depth to the game.  Things like player housing, deep crafting systems, and msot importantly progression at max level thats not limited to gear can make a 'WoW clone' into something more meaningful.  Rift has no soul.  It feels like it was designed 'what can we do to WoW to make it better' as opposed to starting with a fresh idea and incorporating WoW elements into that idea.

Hopefully SWTOR didnt use WoW as a blueprint.  It seems like it didnt to me at least.  Is it taking some of its (perceived) successes?  Absolutely, but I think a good storydriven themepark game with some instant gratification can exist.  it just cant be all instant gratificationa dn endgame ahs to be about more than a gear grind.

I'm not worried about Lucas Arts at all. I'd be more worried if they listened to those in these forums who want a niche Sandbox SWG 2.0. Then the game would really be in trouble.

Here we go again. Another disgruntled whoever, that still thinks LA was responsible for what happened to SWG, when there's pure 100% evidence and proof that SOE screwed that game up from the beginning as well as the debacle known as the NGE.

You do realize that LA is not handing the publishing, marketing and distribution for The Old Republic right? So that's a big difference right there.

Last November EA and LA made a new deal where EA is taking over those responsibilities.

Sourcing

How can LA mess up? I think BW has to get their consent on story and maybe few other minor things.

I dont think it was LA at fault with SWG it was SOE they never listend to what thier customers had to say they ignored every comment and hense ruined what was a great game. I also blame them for the what happend to EQ 1 once again they got greedy pumping out rubbish addons it lost its fun.

Originally posted by musicmann

Here we go again. Another disgruntled whoever, that still thinks LA was responsible for what happened to SWG, when there's pure 100% evidence and proof that SOE screwed that game up from the beginning as well as the debacle known as the NGE.

Link your proof that the early release was SoE's decision and that SoE was behind anything in the NGE other than the fast combat system (might as well link proof that it was SoE's decision to ask for a change to the combat sytem too)

Youd have to be pretty dense to think LA didnt play a huge role in the NGE.

Originally posted by teakbois

1.  Star Wars Galaxies was released at least 6 months too early.  This was 100% Lucas Art's decision as the publisher of SWG.  This is not speculation as most things NGE are, this is fact.

 

2.  Lucas Arts did a terrible job of marketing SWG.  This looks to be a non issue as less advertisibng is even needed these days, but they are getting SWTOR out there.  will they continue to do it after launch?

 

3.  Lucas Arts handcuffs SoE's development.  Every last thing SoE wants to do they need to get approval from SWG.  Even for bug fixes and such.

 

4.  This goes big with #3.  We dont know for sure how much of the NGE LA demanded.  As much as the signs point tot hem at the very least beign responsible for the 'iconic classes', we dont know for sure.  We do know this: LUCAS ARTS APPROVED THE NGE.  They let it go in immediately after an expansion.  they did not inform the customers it was coming.  All the petty things that LA denied SoE over the years but this they allow?

 

 

Now its doubtful that SWTOR would need to be NGE'd, but Lucas Arts was very impatient last time.  If this game doesnt have good retention will they panic again?  I think the game will do well so a lot of this will be moot, but anyone who isnt at least a bit skeptical is nuts. 

 I don't see proof to support your claims against LA. 

Originally posted by waynejr2

 I don't see proof to support your claims against LA. 

look up the user Dundee on this site.