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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: Advanced Classes Interview

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72 posts found
  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 13749

 
OP  6/02/11 4:50:41 PM#1

MMORPG.com Industry Relations Manager Garrett Fuller has a treat for fans of Star Wars: The Old Republic in the form of our exclusive interview with Principle Lead Combat Designer Georg Zoeller. Advanced Classes are the topic of the discussion and it's certainly one you will not want to miss! Keep reading!

The Bounty Hunter has a similar design with the Mercenary and Powertech, can you tell us about skills that define the offense and defense of these two specializations?

For starters, the Mercenary gets to dual wield blaster pistols, giving that Advanced Class a slight edge in damage output over the Powertech, which gets access to a Shield Generator, a definite plus on the survival / defensive side of things. The Bounty Hunter Advanced Classes offer a lot of cool gadgetry in their skill trees, so depending on the player’s skill point distribution, there’s a huge difference in how combat plays and looks between characters

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Star Wars: The Old Republic Advanced Classes Interview.

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom

  Kalfer

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 791

6/03/11 9:25:04 AM#2

Am I the only one who is calling total BS on their smoke and mirror explanations? To answer the last question related to their ability to balance classes, the response is all over the place, and more, a mention of things you would expect, like; "Visually, each of the classes has their own set of animations, sounds, visual effects and appearance" < - Well duh.


 


I think this is way too much for them. It was a bad choice to make so many classes(doubled with specialization). I doubt the uniqueness and quality of each one will suffice. I would rather have 3 great classes with great branching sub classes, than 6 mediocre classes with 12 bad specializations(or whatever). Balancing is just going to be harder. Bioware is horrible, even in their single player games at balancing. As good as many of them are, Balancing has always been a bad part of their products.


We always forgive them because their stories and characters make it worth it, but the end game PvP won't hold it up. Brace for impact my friends. This is not Biowares fault either. Just look at their skills. It will not look like a epic star wars battles, but like a circus fest. you always saw one smuggler or a one bounty hunter at a time. It will look lame to have these rare sneaky characters in droves. Not even talking about jedis.


 


 


"To ensure faction balance, each Republic class has it's 'nemesis' on the Empire side, balanced for equal access in utility, mitigation and damage potential, etc."


< - To me this sounds like they are compromising integrity. We all remember the Shaman/Paladin relationship and the crap that followed. When one was nerfed the other had to be adjusted even if nothing was wrong, and this was even more stupid as they were to different classes that worked in different ways. Eventually they become more and more the same, and got the same skills with different names. What was the point? To balance it out they become more copy pasted versions of each other, until Burning Crusade gave it to the opposing faction, but by then it was too late.


Or at least until Paladins following 5-6 major class redesigns.


  Fdzzaigl

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2113

6/03/11 9:40:20 AM#3
Originally posted by Kalfer

Am I the only one who is calling total BS on their smoke and mirror explanations? To answer the last question related to their ability to balance classes, the response is all over the place, and more, a mention of things you would expect, like; "Visually, each of the classes has their own set of animations, sounds, visual effects and appearance" < - Well duh.


 


I think this is way too much for them. It was a bad choice to make so many classes(doubled with specialization). I doubt the uniqueness and quality of each one will suffice. I would rather have 3 great classes with great branching sub classes, than 6 mediocre classes with 12 bad specializations(or whatever). Balancing is just going to be harder. Bioware is horrible, even in their single player games at balancing. As good as many of them are, Balancing has always been a bad part of their products.


We always forgive them because their stories and characters make it worth it, but the end game PvP won't hold it up. Brace for impact my friends. This is not Biowares fault either. Just look at their skills. It will not look like a epic star wars battles, but like a circus fest. you always saw one smuggler or a one bounty hunter at a time. It will look lame to have these rare sneaky characters in droves. Not even talking about jedis.


 


 


"To ensure faction balance, each Republic class has it's 'nemesis' on the Empire side, balanced for equal access in utility, mitigation and damage potential, etc."


< - To me this sounds like they are compromising integrity. We all remember the Shaman/Paladin relationship and the crap that followed. When one was nerfed the other had to be adjusted even if nothing was wrong, and this was even more stupid as they were to different classes that worked in different ways. Eventually they become more and more the same, and got the same skills with different names. What was the point? To balance it out they become more copy pasted versions of each other, until Burning Crusade gave it to the opposing faction, but by then it was too late.


Or at least until Paladins following 5-6 major class redesigns.

You started off ok, then went straight into the mist making baseless assumptions.

It's easy to read between the lines: yes those classes on both sides will be mirrors in the sense that they do basically the same things. But no they're not going to play exactly the same way (and this is easy to see in the case of Troopers& BH's who have different resource management).

People will always complain about balance, always, them making mirrored roles makes it easier for them to balance it out, not harder (unlike shamans / paladins), your comments on endgame PvP are simply without basis.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  alancode

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 137

6/03/11 9:52:42 AM#4

Could have given us a picture of each advanced class. Really. 


(-_-)

  alancode

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 137

6/03/11 9:53:15 AM#5

*advanced class skill tree


(-_-)

  Mikkhail

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/11
Posts: 21

6/03/11 10:05:58 AM#6

I just want the damn game already so that I can draw my own conclusions!  :\


  HUGA

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/11
Posts: 3

6/03/11 10:13:52 AM#7

Originally posted by Mikkhail



I just want the damn game already so that I can draw my own conclusions!  :\



 


You know I heard that.


  Hopscotch73

Tipster

Joined: 8/12/09
Posts: 972

Urgle blurgle geflurgle.
Need more coffee.

6/03/11 10:30:58 AM#8

Is it just me, or does it seem from that that some classes are more finalized than others?


Lots of info and specific abilities for some classes and a less detailed overview for others.


Great read though.


  Kalfer

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 791

6/03/11 10:32:47 AM#9

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl



Originally posted by Kalfer


Am I the only one who is calling total BS on their smoke and mirror explanations? To answer the last question related to their ability to balance classes, the response is all over the place, and more, a mention of things you would expect, like; "Visually, each of the classes has their own set of animations, sounds, visual effects and appearance" < - Well duh.




 




I think this is way too much for them. It was a bad choice to make so many classes(doubled with specialization). I doubt the uniqueness and quality of each one will suffice. I would rather have 3 great classes with great branching sub classes, than 6 mediocre classes with 12 bad specializations(or whatever). Balancing is just going to be harder. Bioware is horrible, even in their single player games at balancing. As good as many of them are, Balancing has always been a bad part of their products.




We always forgive them because their stories and characters make it worth it, but the end game PvP won't hold it up. Brace for impact my friends. This is not Biowares fault either. Just look at their skills. It will not look like a epic star wars battles, but like a circus fest. you always saw one smuggler or a one bounty hunter at a time. It will look lame to have these rare sneaky characters in droves. Not even talking about jedis.




 




 




"To ensure faction balance, each Republic class has it's 'nemesis' on the Empire side, balanced for equal access in utility, mitigation and damage potential, etc."




< - To me this sounds like they are compromising integrity. We all remember the Shaman/Paladin relationship and the crap that followed. When one was nerfed the other had to be adjusted even if nothing was wrong, and this was even more stupid as they were to different classes that worked in different ways. Eventually they become more and more the same, and got the same skills with different names. What was the point? To balance it out they become more copy pasted versions of each other, until Burning Crusade gave it to the opposing faction, but by then it was too late.




Or at least until Paladins following 5-6 major class redesigns.



You started off ok, then went straight into the mist making baseless assumptions.


It's easy to read between the lines: yes those classes on both sides will be mirrors in the sense that they do basically the same things. But no they're not going to play exactly the same way (and this is easy to see in the case of Troopers& BH's who have different resource management).


People will always complain about balance, always, them making mirrored roles makes it easier for them to balance it out, not harder (unlike shamans / paladins), your comments on endgame PvP are simply without basis.



 


Of course everything is speculation. Few of us have even tried the game, none of us have completed it or seen the whole picture. It should be obvious, but I am just talking about the things the way I view them as seen in the article. I'll be happy to be proven wrong later, and don't mind changing my stance on my issues with the games(as I read it).


 


People are allowed to comment and make their own assumptions and explain their feelings regarding presentations to the media. Nothing constructive will come out of the neutral ground. This is a given. This is self explanatory. People should stop being sensitive and realize that everything is unfounded and IMO, when they haven't played the game. Why going down this route when you instead could comment on the article and how you view it, as that would be more interesting than reviewing what is base and baseless in my interpretation of the article?


 


 


Also what are you saying about the mirror classes? You're for it because it makes it easier to balance? But you also said that there will always be whiners about balance, and I agree with this. The old saying;  "Keep it simple stupid" should apply here.


 


Instead what I am seeing here is another developer who thinks its a great idea to have more mediocre, than few really good. If your going to make mirror classes ain't it just fluff? I don't get why anyone would clock up their own game design like that. That's not what a tight well developed RPG is to me at least. Fun comes before balance.


 


Why not just say screw balance, and center around a few really different classes, instead of making some copy pasted diagram where other classes will suffer due to their faction oppesites failings? The very thing you are advocating here(Or them I guess!?) is the very thing they ended up doing with Shaman and Paladin. And don't you remember how stale they became?


 


PvE gamers had a right to be annoyed that the classes were being compromised like that. But to be fair Paladin was always a joke from a gameplay perspective, and only became sorta-okay in Cata. Still I think they lost identity.


 


I read their explanations like that they are intending(for the sake of balance) to mirror their actual classes, and that is not a good thing.


  Maaku

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/06
Posts: 93

Live or die, do it with style!

6/03/11 10:48:02 AM#10

I fear Jedi's and Sith ameplay will be SUPER similar. Hope the animations will vary at least.


________________________
"If RL was an MMO, I'd probably be getting laid more often..."

  Kebeck

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/27/07
Posts: 322

6/03/11 10:49:53 AM#11

If you want multiple factions, if you want PvP in a game.. You need to have balance.. Simple as that.. If we ever see another PvE only game again, the devs won't have to bother balancing the classes, they'll only need to make them effective..

Until then, class balance will be a torture for every developpers.. And a pain for the fans..

  sonoggi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/22/09
Posts: 1151

6/03/11 11:35:03 AM#12

i dunno i started off really skeptical but the classes look super cool. the thing is, i dont think i'll be playing TOR for the PVP or the balance - i dont think they will know how to do these aspects.


  Goldknyght

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1562

It''s one thing to have a opinion, but enforcing one is unconstitutional.

6/03/11 11:38:18 AM#13
Originally posted by Hopscotch73

Is it just me, or does it seem from that that some classes are more finalized than others?


Lots of info and specific abilities for some classes and a less detailed overview for others.


Great read though.

 You might have a point there and if true i would say thats why it hasnt been released yet. Bioware isn't going to let EA let them release crap and tarnish the bioware name.

  Nanfoodle

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3508

6/03/11 11:51:59 AM#14

Best fan friday yet. Check the link below some good info on AC there as well. This was a great read.


 


http://www.swtor.com/info/systems/advanced-classes


  Comnitus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 2509

Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

6/03/11 12:20:56 PM#15

I think BioWare bit off just as much as they can chew when it comes to number of classes and their specializations/progression paths.

As for PvP balance, keep in mind that BioWare leads Mythic Entertainment (under EA), so that's where the mirror class concept is clearly showing.

  Talin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 825

You only live once... make it count!

6/03/11 12:24:08 PM#16

I am extremely excited about this game, and every team I get more detail into the sub-classes and specializations it really makes me smile - assuming that the balancing of these classes really makes them viable for each "role" they are given access to. That said, I'm not a big end-game person so I expect the overall experience - storyline, character development, levelling, etc, will be my cup of tea.

What does always concern me as mirror classes (as opposed to offering the same classes cross-realm). This makes sense from an IP perspective, but any deviation in gameplay or mechanics will almost always result in an imbalance over time - ESPECIALLY related to PVP. I hope they pay attention to this and invest a lot of time in comparison and reviewing testing feedback over time.

  Matticus75

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 393

6/03/11 12:32:20 PM#17

Out of sights out of minds!


  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

6/03/11 1:11:14 PM#18

In the immortal words of Homer Simpson:

BOOOORING.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

6/03/11 1:21:37 PM#19

Nice detailed description, I didn't read a lot of new things or revelations though.


The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  maccajnr

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/05
Posts: 84

6/03/11 1:28:36 PM#20

Reminds me of DAoC if I'm not mistaken (it's been so long). Basic class for a few levels, then able to choose the advanced class. Nothing really new here.


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