Trending Games | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2 | WildStar | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,787,261 Users Online:0
Games:723  Posts:6,193,320
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Attributes of successful PvP in a MMO

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search
41 posts found
  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

 
OP  5/24/11 8:36:52 AM#1

Not to many topics spark the interest of MMO players moreso than PvP.  Furthermore, most MMO games that have focused on PvP (and released in the last 5 years) have not performed well (in terms of retaining a solid player base for an extended period of time).  As a PvP player, some of the failures of PvP MMOs has been frustrating because it makes it less likely the next developer will try to build upon PvP and instead focus on PvE.  So, with that brief introduction, i wanted to list the key attributes that could make a PvP-focued MMO successful.  Please add your own attributes.

PvP must be consensual (as I believe free-for-all PvP is more of a niche market) and PvE can be done in "safe zones." Allow PvE to have higher rewards when done in a PvP zone. Make PvP a preferred alternative to traditional PvE leveling with faster leveling, gear and gold. PvP is fought between people of similar "levels".
  • This is to change the perception that "the game begins at level x" mentality. The journey should be the same as the end-game.  There should be a minimal difference between "end-game" and leveling.
Go with at least 3 factions in PvP to prevent one side from dominating. Make each faction have exactly the same skills and spells, but change the artwork/graphics.  Place severe restrictions on playing on more than one faction to prevent "spying."
  • My major problem with most PvP MMO games is the 2-sided fight, which results in one-side winning via population "zerg", and the losing side becoming frustrated and logging off and/or quitting the game, which of course makes it even worse.  While DAOC did this, the factions were unbalanced in skills/spell combinations. Guild Wars 2 is proposing a 3-way server battle in open-world PvP is an example of solving the problem.
Modest faction-wide benefits associated with PvP goals and significant temporary benefits for major PvP goals. Benefits could include higher experience gains, better crafting probabilities, increased damage mitigation, extra gold in PvP and PvE, etc.
  • This is the idea to generate faction-pride. People should care about whether or not they have the PvP objectives. Major PvP objectives should be temporary because it could allow one-side to dominate in PvP. 
PvP progression rewards are modest but enough to motivate players. All players are publicly ranked in PvP via a website or in-game titles.
  • Many players are motivated to improving their characters over time and like to be recognized for it. 
Player-made equipment is customizable and can be the best in the game with luck in crafting (significantly enhanced by holding PvP objectives) and special ingredients (dropped in PvP and PvE fights).
  • This allows PvP players to generate the best gear rather than forcing them into PvE.  This doesn't mean PvE rewards are bad, just that PvE raids are not required to have the best gear in PvP.  People who only PvE can also craft this gear as the same ingredients drop in PvE as in PvP, but perhaps at a lower drop-rate percentage.
Scenarios provide less benefits than open-world PvP when server populations reach "medium" or higher but full benefits when the server has low-population.  Scenarios try to fit pre-made groups against other pre-made groups. 
  • Scenarios should be a viable alternative to people playing in "non-peak" times to get PvP action quickly. However, the game encourages (but doesn't force) open-world PvP. Putting PUGs against pre-made groups is just a receipe for frustration and should be avoided if possible.
Automatic chat and voice channels for PvP coordination (provided within the game, another anti-spying method). 
  • Tries to reduce the benefits of pre-made groups by giving voice chat in-game, and prevents spying because that voice chat only works for that faction.  Having automatic chat channels in PvP should also improve faction pride and coordination, especially for those without microphones. 
Allowing players to significantly change their character's skills/spells/attributes (maybe even changing class??) because the game mechanics change post-launch. Players who feel the "nerf bat" hit them extra-hard should be allowed to change thier character to adjust to the new mechanics.
  • Everyone knows the nerf-bat will come around, and around, and around in a PvP MMO game.  It just is a fact of MMO games. Given the investments in time and energy by players into their charactes, game companies should allow players to change their characters in the face of game-changing mechanics.  How easy it should be is up for debate.  
A pre-launch plan and game-code to integrate/merge servers should it become necessary. This might require character unique names across all servers. 
  • Eventually every game faces a decline in population and PvP games require decent population to work. The game should have a plan in place to make server merging or cross-server integration seemless to the players rather than causing some type of drama. 
Well, that's my list of attributes for a successful PvP focused MMO game. I left out obvious things like "server and client stability".   Right now, Guild Wars 2 looks to be the "next" game that has more of these attributes. 
 
What attributes do you think a successful PvP-focused MMO game should have?  Let's get a good list together so game developers can really see what people want. 
  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

5/24/11 10:01:03 AM#2
Originally posted by SBE1

Scenarios provide less benefits than open-world PvP when server populations reach "medium" or higher but full benefits when the server has low-population.  Scenarios try to fit pre-made groups against other pre-made groups. 
  • Scenarios should be a viable alternative to people playing in "non-peak" times to get PvP action quickly. However, the game encourages (but doesn't force) open-world PvP. Putting PUGs against pre-made groups is just a receipe for frustration and should be avoided if possible.

Why, why, why do you need to force people out of scenarios?! Don't you want people to do what they want? Shouldn't they play the game just the way they like it? I am absolutely against such a reward system.

"Yeah, you can do scenarios but you get less EXP and and loot." How do you think people will react? -They will be forced to open world PvP. Every "should" becomes a "must" especially when you talk about power gamers.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  User Deleted
5/24/11 10:14:21 AM#3
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by SBE1

Scenarios provide less benefits than open-world PvP when server populations reach "medium" or higher but full benefits when the server has low-population.  Scenarios try to fit pre-made groups against other pre-made groups. 
  • Scenarios should be a viable alternative to people playing in "non-peak" times to get PvP action quickly. However, the game encourages (but doesn't force) open-world PvP. Putting PUGs against pre-made groups is just a receipe for frustration and should be avoided if possible.

Why, why, why do you need to force people out of scenarios?! Don't you want people to do what they want? Shouldn't they play the game just the way they like it? I am absolutely against such a reward system.

"Yeah, you can do scenarios but you get less EXP and and loot." How do you think people will react? -They will be forced to open world PvP. Every "should" becomes a "must" especially when you talk about power gamers.

How is incentivising people to take part in open world pvp 'forcing' people out of scenarios again? Frankly I would imagine those people who like taking part in scenarios for the enjoyment/fun or competitive aspect of it wouldn't give two shits about getting slightly less xp from them.

 

Player: "Oh man I pvp in teh arenas because it's like esportz yo, real pvp.

Dev: 5% slower experience gain from scenarios.

Player: "FFS now you have killed all reason for me to pwn in arenaz!!!!!!!!."

  Tanemund

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/09
Posts: 70

5/24/11 10:18:36 AM#4

Another DAoC 2 post?  Thinly disguised but immediately recognizable with the addition of "at least three factions". 

 

Really?

 

Nothing to see here.  Move along.

Many a small thing has been made large by the right kind of advertising.

  Greymantle4

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 676

5/24/11 10:21:27 AM#5

The most important thing for me is to not have the pvp based on gear. It gets old having to keep grinding gear to enjoy some pvp from time to time. A heads up though pvp to me is just a side game nothing more so take what I say as a grain of salt. :P

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

5/24/11 10:23:53 AM#6
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by SBE1

Scenarios provide less benefits than open-world PvP when server populations reach "medium" or higher but full benefits when the server has low-population.  Scenarios try to fit pre-made groups against other pre-made groups. 
  • Scenarios should be a viable alternative to people playing in "non-peak" times to get PvP action quickly. However, the game encourages (but doesn't force) open-world PvP. Putting PUGs against pre-made groups is just a receipe for frustration and should be avoided if possible.

Why, why, why do you need to force people out of scenarios?! Don't you want people to do what they want? Shouldn't they play the game just the way they like it? I am absolutely against such a reward system.

"Yeah, you can do scenarios but you get less EXP and and loot." How do you think people will react? -They will be forced to open world PvP. Every "should" becomes a "must" especially when you talk about power gamers.

How is incentivising people to take part in open world pvp 'forcing' people out of scenarios again? Frankly I would imagine those people who like taking part in scenarios for the enjoyment/fun or competitive aspect of it wouldn't give two shits about getting slightly less xp from them.

 

Player: "Oh man I pvp in teh arenas because it's like esportz yo, real pvp.

Dev: 5% slower experience gain from scenarios.

Player: "FFS now you have killed all reason for me to pwn in arenaz!!!!!!!!."

Whats wrong with equal rewards then?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

5/24/11 10:37:20 AM#7

Get rid of Battlegrounds, Warfronts and scenerios ... they kill pvp. Give meaningful world pvp and you got a hit. World PvP is the only PvP. Battlegounds and all that are just gear grinds. Get rid of PvP gear. Make crafted gear the best. Make raids not drop gear but items to create the best of the crafted gear. You stimulate the economy that way and introduce real ingame trade. Sieges. Sieges. Sieges. Player housing. Destructable player housing.

Win.

 

Edit:

 

Arena's would be fine, so long as they are done correctly, meaning you can't que for them wherever the hell you want. You have to go into the city and speak to the arena master to participate. Have an actual area, where other players can go sit in the stands and spectate for real.

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  User Deleted
5/24/11 10:45:52 AM#8
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by SBE1

Scenarios provide less benefits than open-world PvP when server populations reach "medium" or higher but full benefits when the server has low-population.  Scenarios try to fit pre-made groups against other pre-made groups. 
  • Scenarios should be a viable alternative to people playing in "non-peak" times to get PvP action quickly. However, the game encourages (but doesn't force) open-world PvP. Putting PUGs against pre-made groups is just a receipe for frustration and should be avoided if possible.

Why, why, why do you need to force people out of scenarios?! Don't you want people to do what they want? Shouldn't they play the game just the way they like it? I am absolutely against such a reward system.

"Yeah, you can do scenarios but you get less EXP and and loot." How do you think people will react? -They will be forced to open world PvP. Every "should" becomes a "must" especially when you talk about power gamers.

How is incentivising people to take part in open world pvp 'forcing' people out of scenarios again? Frankly I would imagine those people who like taking part in scenarios for the enjoyment/fun or competitive aspect of it wouldn't give two shits about getting slightly less xp from them.

 

Player: "Oh man I pvp in teh arenas because it's like esportz yo, real pvp.

Dev: 5% slower experience gain from scenarios.

Player: "FFS now you have killed all reason for me to pwn in arenaz!!!!!!!!."

Whats wrong with equal rewards then?

Bit of an odd question. There is nothing wrong with 'equal rewards' if the tasks undertaken to get them are the same. Or that one task is not inhibited by this (frankly unnecessary) drive for 'equality'. I think the more pertinent question is: What is the dire need for equal rewards from every single task?

 

People who pvp in arenas for the competitive aspect/fun of it shouldn't really be getting their knickers in a twist over the thought of open world pvpers being able to potentially get slightly better rewards, or slightly more xp. Those players though who are all about teh shinies will indeed shy away from open world pvp and take part in arenas if the rewards are equal for the simple reason they are a hell of alot faster to do.

 

Personally I couldn't care less about who gets what/faster, but I can't see why having slightly differing rewards for different game aspects it's such a game killer. Tbh maybe people should have to try their hands at a few different things in a game if they want the best of everything, as opposed to just being given the very best/fastest stuff/route without trying to diversify at all.

 

I don't particularly enjoy pve, but I don't mind if I had to take part in some mind numbing raid in order to get an item I couldn't get through pvp. And I certainly couldn't care less if someone managed to level up slightly faster by using a different play style.

  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

 
OP  5/24/11 10:59:25 AM#9

First, this isn't a DAOC 2 thread.  I will grant you that there were lots of things DAOC did correctly in PvP (3 or more factions), but a lot of things they did poorly.  A short list would be unbalanced classes/factions, overpowered PvE gear, inability to level in PvP (no gear drops), no scenarios, etc.  As I said in my post, Guild Wars 2 is potentially the best match so far, as it too has 3 factions (1 sever against 2 other servers, which also allows for identical classes/skills) and offers scenario fights.  Mythic created Warhammer (based upon a lot of things done in DAOC, so call it DAOC 1.5) and it was an epic fail as demonstrated how many server merges they have done.

As for battlegrounds/scenarios, I just feel that it is a "quick fix" PvP rush, and hence it is great when server populations are low and finding open-world PvP becomes more difficult.  Furthermore, scenarios really don't have much of a "sand box game" quality to it since it takes place in an instanced area, and thus decreases the faction-based community building that I think a successful game should have.  You saw this happen in Warhammer when people just began ignoring open world PvP and always were in que for a scenario pop. The community began pleading with those in scenarios to help in open-world PvP, and those in scenarios began to harrass (in chat) those in open world PvP.  It really killed the community.   Since I think communities are harder to build the more instanced it becomes, that's why I believe a modest benefit for doing open-world Pvp should be given once population levels on the server are adequate.

I was hoping people would post their own attributes rather than freaking out about scenarios versus open-world PvP, but that's they way it goes. 

  Dibdabs

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/29/08
Posts: 2409

5/24/11 11:06:06 AM#10
Originally posted by SBE1

Go with at least 3 factions in PvP to prevent one side from dominating. Make each faction have exactly the same skills and spells, but change the artwork/graphics. 

No, no, no - I hate it when they simply make every race have the same spells and abilities and simply change graphics for the characters. SO BORING!  I want different abilities and spells for each race otherwise why even bother with races.

For me, the main reason PvP is so boring is that there's no real risk or reward.  What's the point of me killing you when i can't loot anything off you and you pop back, good as new and with no damage to any of your possessions, 10 seconds later?  I don't want the "reward" of some stupid, abstract points system where I spend points at some vendor, either.  I want to loot the people I kill, simple as that.

I know people bang on about pvp in Eve, but they do so for a very good reason.  No game gives you the feeling of satisfaction you get when you destroy someone's ship causing them to lose millions of ISK, then loot anything from the cargo and ship's modules that survived the blast which might cause them to lose millions more.  Of course, THEY might do that to ME instead - that's the excitement factor.  Fantasy MMO pvp just seems... bland.

  tazarconan

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 1022

5/24/11 11:16:05 AM#11
Originally posted by Vunak23

 

Arena's would be fine, so long as they are done correctly, meaning you can't que for them wherever the hell you want. You have to go into the city and speak to the arena master to participate. Have an actual area, where other players can go sit in the stands and spectate for real.

Can't agree more dude. It also adds to mthe gameworld's atmosphere,with spectators on the seats aka rome's colisseum's arenas figths.

Tournaments in weekends at specific times where players can travel to the city that holds them and declare participation.

  mm0wiggins

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 275

I'd rather be lucky than smart.

5/24/11 11:27:01 AM#12
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by SBE1

Scenarios provide less benefits than open-world PvP when server populations reach "medium" or higher but full benefits when the server has low-population.  Scenarios try to fit pre-made groups against other pre-made groups. 
  • Scenarios should be a viable alternative to people playing in "non-peak" times to get PvP action quickly. However, the game encourages (but doesn't force) open-world PvP. Putting PUGs against pre-made groups is just a receipe for frustration and should be avoided if possible.

Why, why, why do you need to force people out of scenarios?! Don't you want people to do what they want? Shouldn't they play the game just the way they like it? I am absolutely against such a reward system.

"Yeah, you can do scenarios but you get less EXP and and loot." How do you think people will react? -They will be forced to open world PvP. Every "should" becomes a "must" especially when you talk about power gamers.

@ Quirhid

well, why why why do you need to force people into scenarios?   Don't you want people around in the game world or is an MMO just supposed to be a lobby?    When people log in to an MMORPG, it should NOT be an empty lobby designed to look like a forest for them to wait for a queue to pop them in a scenario.       Scenarios were never supposed to be the bulk of gameplay, that's why MMOs were made so large with so much enviornment.      You want to sit in scenarios and minigames?  Why not just play Diablo or Starcraft or Unreal Tournament?    I don't understand this necessity for people to stop playing in the WORLD.  It's ludicrous.

This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

5/24/11 11:34:25 AM#13
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

Whats wrong with equal rewards then?

Bit of an odd question. There is nothing wrong with 'equal rewards' if the tasks undertaken to get them are the same. Or that one task is not inhibited by this (frankly unnecessary) drive for 'equality'. I think the more pertinent question is: What is the dire need for equal rewards from every single task?

 

People who pvp in arenas for the competitive aspect/fun of it shouldn't really be getting their knickers in a twist over the thought of open world pvpers being able to potentially get slightly better rewards, or slightly more xp. Those players though who are all about teh shinies will indeed shy away from open world pvp and take part in arenas if the rewards are equal for the simple reason they are a hell of alot faster to do.

 

Personally I couldn't care less about who gets what/faster, but I can't see why having slightly differing rewards for different game aspects it's such a game killer. Tbh maybe people should have to try their hands at a few different things in a game if they want the best of everything, as opposed to just being given the very best/fastest stuff/route without trying to diversify at all.

 

I don't particularly enjoy pve, but I don't mind if I had to take part in some mind numbing raid in order to get an item I couldn't get through pvp. And I certainly couldn't care less if someone managed to level up slightly faster by using a different play style.

With equal rewards, people can do whatever they like and don't need to worry them. If you don't care either way, then equal rewards is the way to go. There are no cons for equal rewards.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  mm0wiggins

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 275

I'd rather be lucky than smart.

5/24/11 11:36:30 AM#14

Originally posted by Vunak23

 

Arena's would be fine, so long as they are done correctly, meaning you can't que for them wherever the hell you want. You have to go into the city and speak to the arena master to participate. Have an actual area, where other players can go sit in the stands and spectate for real.

Dude this is a great idea.    The one thing that would make Arenas and their widespread use in MMOs exceptible in terms of not killing population, and free-form PvP, would be to add spectators and perhaps other content for the players outside the battle to get involved in.    

Not to mention how much better it is to have a location inside a city or in the world where players are REQUIRED to go to queue up, making use of the land, travel, and conflict.    Queuing up from anywhere in the game is "fast", sure, but tbh I think that's ruining the community.   Everything is not supposed to be fast.   MMO content is longwinded, and takes time to explore, achieve, and progress.   This whole "hurry up and win, hurry up and level, hurry up and queue, hurry up and gear up" mentality is just utterly disgusting.   

This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

  mm0wiggins

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 275

I'd rather be lucky than smart.

5/24/11 11:42:00 AM#15
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

With equal rewards, people can do whatever they like and don't need to worry them. If you don't care either way, then equal rewards is the way to go. There are no cons for equal rewards.

I agree in a personal regard, but once the reward tables become equal, it will then be a question of "speed" since people in MMOs these days are only concerned with how fast they get stuff.   

If it's faster to queue up to an arena to get shinies than it is to go out and dominate an opposing faction's continent for shinies, guess where most of the pvpers will lean towards?   Arenas as usual....

I still think that reward systems for pvp in general are kind of messed up.    Most pvpers are in it for the gear and no longer in it for the pure pvp fun.      I personally think it'd be better to reward PVP (instanced or not) with a seperate rewards table besides gear.    Aesthetics, more or less:  character customization, light effects, animations, emotes, sounds, buffs, mount abilities, mount customizations, social benefits, public announcements, etc...  

leave the gear race to the people who don't mind grinding dungeons and raids over and over and over...

This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

5/24/11 11:46:49 AM#16
Originally posted by mm0wiggins
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

@ Quirhid

well, why why why do you need to force people into scenarios?   Don't you want people around in the game world or is an MMO just supposed to be a lobby?    When people log in to an MMORPG, it should NOT be an empty lobby designed to look like a forest for them to wait for a queue to pop them in a scenario.       Scenarios were never supposed to be the bulk of gameplay, that's why MMOs were made so large with so much enviornment.      You want to sit in scenarios and minigames?  Why not just play Diablo or Starcraft or Unreal Tournament?    I don't understand this necessity for people to stop playing in the WORLD.  It's ludicrous.

I don't want to force people into scenarios. I don't see the need to force people out of them either. Why can't players play the game just the way they like it?

I don't care what MMORPGs are about. I don't care what they're supposed to be. Great majority of gamers are not purists like you and many others in these forums. They just want to play a good game and have fun. If scenarios offers them more fun than open PvP, why should you discourage them from doing what they like? Who are you to tell them how they should enjoy their game?

Let the players choose. I'm against all artificial incentives for alternative playstyles. Players should be equally rewarded from instanced PvP and from open-world PvP if the game has both. Just like groups should not get any artificial EXP buffs over soloing. It just seems very wrong to me to implement multiple playstyles but only favor one. Relic features in an old game I can understand, but in a new game this is unacceptable.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  mm0wiggins

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 275

I'd rather be lucky than smart.

5/24/11 11:53:27 AM#17
Originally posted by Quirhid

I don't care what MMORPGs are about. I don't care what they're supposed to be. Great majority of gamers are not purists like you and many others in these forums. They just want to play a good game and have fun. If scenarios offers them more fun than open PvP, why should you discourage them from doing what they like? Who are you to tell them how they should enjoy their game?

Let the players choose. I'm against all artificial incentives for alternative playstyles. Players should be equally rewarded from instanced PvP and from open-world PvP if the game has both. Just like groups should get any artificial EXP buffs over solloing. It just seems very wrong to me to implement multiple playstyles but only favor one. Relic features in an old game I can understand, but in a new game this is unacceptable.

 

If a person wants a lobby game where they only see other people in controlled, instanced scenarios, I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to play that.    I'm just saying that it's pretty unacceptable that they want MMORPGs to keep CHANGING their design, trying to compensate for these players.  

Why is it so hard to just play a different genre of game?    I don't go buy fighting games and then demand from the developers that they change them into RPGs that will break character balance and add auction houses and loot and other things that simply don't belong in Fighting games. ... If i want that stuff, I'd play RPGs.      I feel the same for the lobbyists...  Why do MMORPGs have to change for the people that just want instant gratification when THE ENTIRE WORLD OF GAMING outside of MMORPGs already offers this?!??!?!?!!?

This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

5/24/11 11:58:58 AM#18
Originally posted by mm0wiggins
Originally posted by Quirhid

 

 

If a person wants a lobby game where they only see other people in controlled, instanced scenarios, I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to play that.    I'm just saying that it's pretty unacceptable that they want MMORPGs to keep CHANGING their design, trying to compensate for these players.  

Why is it so hard to just play a different genre of game?    I don't go buy fighting games and then demand from the developers that they change them into RPGs that will break character balance and add auction houses and loot and other things that simply don't belong in Fighting games. ... If i want that stuff, I'd play RPGs.      I feel the same for the lobbyists...  Why do MMORPGs have to change for the people that just want instant gratification when THE ENTIRE WORLD OF GAMING outside of MMORPGs already offers this?!??!?!?!!?

All games should change for the people. You are just unlucky that you are in a minority.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  defame

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/07
Posts: 4

5/24/11 11:59:39 AM#19

You have some good points. I am a gamer who loves PvP AND PvE. I can choose one or the other but every now and then I NEED PvP so I can feel more accomplished with the character/avatar I designed and outfitted.

I like what Blizzard has done with WoW and the PvP/PvE servers so you can choose which type of gaming you prefer.

  mm0wiggins

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/07/10
Posts: 275

I'd rather be lucky than smart.

5/24/11 12:13:54 PM#20
Originally posted by Quirhid

All games should change for the people. You are just unlucky that you are in a minority.

Just because I don't want what you want doesn't make me a part of some minority.  I've heard this before, and I've seen it before said to others, and usually from the same opposition.     

After talking to many gamers over the last few years; MMO gamers especially, I no longer buy into this "people who don't like where MMOs are headed are the minority" nonsense.      Of all the forums i've been through, and still am a part of, and of all the MMOs i've played, and still subscribe to, the one thing I've noticed is the vocal MAJORITY are people like me, that simply don't have a choice but to play what's out there.       Again, incase the wires got crossed, I'll say it.  The vocal Majority.

The vocal minority are people who voice an absolute love for the current state of mmos.

The actual majority players in this genre don't say much if anything at all on any forum, so we end up assuming what they think based on our own bias.     

 

I'm glad you enjoy lobby gaming, those of you who disagree with the OP.  I just wish you would try lobby designed games once you get your 2-3 month fix of MMOs (since that's all that's needed to achieve everything in them now.) and perhaps give the developers a few years break from trying to push out these ultra action minigames so they can concentrate on making virtual worlds again, for a change.    

This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.

3 Pages 1 2 3 » Search