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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » DEVS confirm:TOR has no intentions of being a sandbox

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268 posts found
  twodayslate

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 756

5/23/11 4:48:44 PM#101
Originally posted by Zoulz
Originally posted by engrishGold
Themepark MMORPGS are just glorified chat rooms with facebook games (instanced dungeons,bg's,simplified crafting).

 

I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

A chat room would actually be the ultimate sandbox. No restrictions. Everything is run by the participants. It's actually much more close to real pen 'n paper RPGs than a computer game will ever be.

MMORPIRC?

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2083

5/23/11 4:50:19 PM#102
Originally posted by gobla

I wonder how many people here have actually played previous Bioware games.

I mean let's be honest, all Bioware games are pretty lineair. There's the first act in which you're locked into the starting area and progress to the point where you 'unlock' the game world. Then there's the second act in which there's several locations in the game world you need to visit to collect allies/star maps/whatever. And then there's the third act in which you assault the grand enemy, first beating his minions to reach him and the beating said enemy himself. Through this all are side-quests which usually boil down to killing things, getting items or having a conversation.

What were you expecting? A neurotoxin at Bioware HQ making them forget all their previous games?

You're going to start on your starting planet where you're going to get introduced to the story until you unlock the game world by getting your starship. After that a number of planets are going to open up which you're going to visit in order to get more clues about whatever threat you're facing as well as whatever tools you need to beat that threat. Then there's going to be a finale in the story in which you face some sort of nemesis and eventually beat him. Through this all there will be side-quests which will boil down to killing things, getting items or having conversations. As extra MMO features you're going to get BG PvP, world PvP, flashpoints, crafting, trading, multiplayer conversations, grouping, guilds and much much more.

That's what SWToR is going to be. That's what Bioware games are. They've never been about revolutionising the industry. They've never been about glorious innovation. They've always been about story and companions. And now as an added bonus we're going to be getting a ton of MMO features of AAA quality on top of that.

If you buy the game then you fall into one of three very advantagous categories!

If you like Bioware games then you're going to be getting 8 times KotOR for 50 bucks + 15 bucks/month. Buying 8 KotOR games would normally cost 400 bucks. You can play for 24 months or 2 years on that. And that's assuming they don't release any content patches at all! Basically DLC that would normally cost you 15 bucks or so at release. So add an extra month of playtime for every major content patch. Besides this great offer you're going to get all the standard MMO features for absolutely nothing at all. Totally free. You're just paying for one of the biggest RPGs ever made and you're getting one of the biggest MMOs for absolutely nothing at all.

If you like WoW-type games then you're going to be spending the exact same money as you'd spend on them. Same box price and same sub fee. But of course with updated graphics, a totally fresh and exciting Star Wars setting as well as some unique systems like companions, crafting and a personal starship. And on top of that and the standard MMO fare you're going to get one of the biggest RPGs for absolutely nothing at all, totally free. No extra money charged. You're just paying for your standard MMO and you'll be receiving 8 great Bioware RPGs for free.

If you don't like Bioware and you don't like WoW then you're getting exactly what you deserved! You didn't research the game, you didn't bother to read anything about it. You've lost 50 bucks on a game you don't like because you were stupid. You shouldn't have bought the game in the first place. And on top of getting precisely what you deserve you're also getting a totally free valueable lesson! Next time read up on a game before you buy it. You're just paying the debt you no doubt owe Bioware for your lack of intelligence and you'll be receiving a valueable life lesson for zero extra cost!

So you see, no matter what type of player you are buying SWToR is good for you!

+1

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

5/23/11 4:52:20 PM#103
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by engrishGold
I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

I would actually agree with this. Themeparks have no virtual world to speak of so not really MMORPGs in my book, but ever since WoW the definition of MMORPG has been stretched far wider than most of us veterans are comfortable with.

I mean when STO is classified as an MMORPG, with its houndreds of instances, then what is not an MMORPG?

Actually, I'm all for renaming sandbox MMO's in MMORPW's or MMORPWS, with the W and S for World and Simulation.

The G in MMORPG stands for Game, and as everyone can understand, WoW has had that focus on the 'Game' aspect far more than on the 'World' aspect, it does a better job of being a game than sandbox MMO's, while sandbox MMO's are better at the 'world' focus part than themepark MMO's.

It's the age old 'game design vs world design' discussion that even precedes the 'themepark MMO vs sandbox MMO design' debate.

So: MMORPW (W for World) to describe sandbox MMO's, MMORPG (G for Game) to describe themepark/non-sandbox MMO's 

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/23/11 4:53:32 PM#104
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Since (some) sandbox MMO fans/themepark MMO haters are so intent on dismissing all themepark MMORPG's as not being MMORPG's, maybe sandbox MMO's should be dismissed and avowed as not being MMORPG too.

As people in the MMO business often stated, WoW's MMO design focused more on the game aspect of MMORPG and far less on the worldbuilding/simulation of an MMORPG, and since the G in MMORPG stands clearly for 'Game' it seems that Blizzard paid more tribute to where the name MMORPG comes from. More so than sandbox MMORPG's that focus far more on the world aspect and far less on the game aspect as Blizzard did with WoW, and other themepark MMORPG's in the same line do as well.

Excuse me? Just because there is a G there then you conclude that virtual worlds are less part of MMORPGs?! 

I suggest you take a trip down memory lane and understand what virtual worlds is what made this genre big. As in Ultima Online, Asherons Call etc. Without those visionary games and pioneers WoW would not even exist.

So I think it's no more than reasonable, since sandbox MMO's are more focused on the world aspect than on the game aspect anyway, to not call them MMORPG's anymore.

Call them MMOW or MMORPW or such, but clearly themepark MMORPG's like WoW & co are more 'game' design based than sandbox MMO's. Just a thought

No there is no reason in that thinking, not by any stretch of the definition of the word. What you are talking about is single player games or multiplayer games which in essence most themeparks are with their instances and static worlds. Virtual world games are still games, not simulations like you seem to think. They are just richer and focus on community, dynamic world rather than single player experiences. 

Originally posted by ukforze

i thinks they are more commonly used in sandbox, tbh i cant think of many if any

themeparks with player housing & a player built economy, since they are not very

common, your definition of standard seems misguided.

LotrO and EQ2 have player houses, AoC has player towns, SWTOR will have player ships and guild capital ships are on the way. So I'd say that they're present in themepark MMO's already.

As for the player built economy, I'm guessing that people mean no gear from quests or loot at all, but all player crafted. No, you won't see that quickly in themepark based MMO's.

No you wont, because they would depend on a solid community and a virtual world to provide foundation for player economies to flourish. Themepark based MMOs are essentially single/limited multi-player games where you are not dependant on the world nor of any players exept your 8-16 person raid-group.

[Mod Edit]

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/23/11 4:54:19 PM#105
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by engrishGold
I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

I would actually agree with this. Themeparks have no virtual world to speak of so not really MMORPGs in my book, but ever since WoW the definition of MMORPG has been stretched far wider than most of us veterans are comfortable with.

I mean when STO is classified as an MMORPG, with its houndreds of instances, then what is not an MMORPG?

Actually, I'm all for renaming sandbox MMO's in MMORPW's or MMORPWS, with the W and S for World and Simulation.

The G in MMORPG stands for Game, and as everyone can understand, WoW has had that focus on the 'Game' aspect far more than on the 'World' aspect, it does a better job of being a game than sandbox MMO's, while sandbox MMO's are better at the 'world' focus part than themepark MMO's.

It's the age old 'game design vs world design' discussion that even precedes the 'themepark MMO vs sandbox MMO design' debate.

So: MMORPW (W for World) to describe sandbox MMO's, MMORPG (G for Game) to describe themepark/non-sandbox MMO's 

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2083

5/23/11 4:55:31 PM#106
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by engrishGold
I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

I would actually agree with this. Themeparks have no virtual world to speak of so not really MMORPGs in my book, but ever since WoW the definition of MMORPG has been stretched far wider than most of us veterans are comfortable with.

I mean when STO is classified as an MMORPG, with its houndreds of instances, then what is not an MMORPG?

Actually, I'm all for renaming sandbox MMO's in MMORPW's or MMORPWS, with the W and S for World and Simulation.

The G in MMORPG stands for Game, and as everyone can understand, WoW has had that focus on the 'Game' aspect far more than on the 'World' aspect, it does a better job of being a game than sandbox MMO's, while sandbox MMO's are better at the 'world' focus part than themepark MMO's.

It's the age old 'game design vs world design' discussion that even precedes the 'themepark MMO vs sandbox MMO design' debate.

So: MMORPW (W for World) to describe sandbox MMO's, MMORPG (G for Game) to describe themepark/non-sandbox MMO's 

I recommend removing the R for themepark/nonsandbox MMOs since one rarely finds roleplayers on them aside from the small dedicated subpopulation of the designated roleplaying servers.  So MMORPW and MMOG (just drop the P as well since P by itself is unnecessary).

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  Xerenix

Tipster

Joined: 5/04/08
Posts: 186

5/23/11 4:58:00 PM#107
Originally posted by gobla

I wonder how many people here have actually played previous Bioware games.

I mean let's be honest, all Bioware games are pretty lineair. There's the first act in which you're locked into the starting area and progress to the point where you 'unlock' the game world. Then there's the second act in which there's several locations in the game world you need to visit to collect allies/star maps/whatever. And then there's the third act in which you assault the grand enemy, first beating his minions to reach him and the beating said enemy himself. Through this all are side-quests which usually boil down to killing things, getting items or having a conversation.

What were you expecting? A neurotoxin at Bioware HQ making them forget all their previous games?

You're going to start on your starting planet where you're going to get introduced to the story until you unlock the game world by getting your starship. After that a number of planets are going to open up which you're going to visit in order to get more clues about whatever threat you're facing as well as whatever tools you need to beat that threat. Then there's going to be a finale in the story in which you face some sort of nemesis and eventually beat him. Through this all there will be side-quests which will boil down to killing things, getting items or having conversations. As extra MMO features you're going to get BG PvP, world PvP, flashpoints, crafting, trading, multiplayer conversations, grouping, guilds and much much more.

That's what SWToR is going to be. That's what Bioware games are. They've never been about revolutionising the industry. They've never been about glorious innovation. They've always been about story and companions. And now as an added bonus we're going to be getting a ton of MMO features of AAA quality on top of that.

If you buy the game then you fall into one of three very advantagous categories!

If you like Bioware games then you're going to be getting 8 times KotOR for 50 bucks + 15 bucks/month. Buying 8 KotOR games would normally cost 400 bucks. You can play for 24 months or 2 years on that. And that's assuming they don't release any content patches at all! Basically DLC that would normally cost you 15 bucks or so at release. So add an extra month of playtime for every major content patch. Besides this great offer you're going to get all the standard MMO features for absolutely nothing at all. Totally free. You're just paying for one of the biggest RPGs ever made and you're getting one of the biggest MMOs for absolutely nothing at all.

If you like WoW-type games then you're going to be spending the exact same money as you'd spend on them. Same box price and same sub fee. But of course with updated graphics, a totally fresh and exciting Star Wars setting as well as some unique systems like companions, crafting and a personal starship. And on top of that and the standard MMO fare you're going to get one of the biggest RPGs for absolutely nothing at all, totally free. No extra money charged. You're just paying for your standard MMO and you'll be receiving 8 great Bioware RPGs for free.

If you don't like Bioware and you don't like WoW then you're getting exactly what you deserved! You didn't research the game, you didn't bother to read anything about it. You've lost 50 bucks on a game you don't like because you were stupid. You shouldn't have bought the game in the first place. And on top of getting precisely what you deserve you're also getting a totally free valueable lesson! Next time read up on a game before you buy it. You're just paying the debt you no doubt owe Bioware for your lack of intelligence and you'll be receiving a valueable life lesson for zero extra cost!

So you see, no matter what type of player you are buying SWToR is good for you!

You sir just won the internet. Congrats!

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/23/11 4:58:22 PM#108
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by engrishGold
I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

I would actually agree with this. Themeparks have no virtual world to speak of so not really MMORPGs in my book, but ever since WoW the definition of MMORPG has been stretched far wider than most of us veterans are comfortable with.

I mean when STO is classified as an MMORPG, with its houndreds of instances, then what is not an MMORPG?

Actually, I'm all for renaming sandbox MMO's in MMORPW's or MMORPWS, with the W and S for World and Simulation.

The G in MMORPG stands for Game, and as everyone can understand, WoW has had that focus on the 'Game' aspect far more than on the 'World' aspect, it does a better job of being a game than sandbox MMO's, while sandbox MMO's are better at the 'world' focus part than themepark MMO's.

It's the age old 'game design vs world design' discussion that even precedes the 'themepark MMO vs sandbox MMO design' debate.

So: MMORPW (W for World) to describe sandbox MMO's, MMORPG (G for Game) to describe themepark/non-sandbox MMO's 

I recommend removing the R for themepark/nonsandbox MMOs since one rarely finds roleplayers on them aside from the small dedicated subpopulation of the designated roleplaying servers.  So MMORPW and MMOG (just drop the P as well since P by itself is unnecessary).

A more fitting acronym for themeparks would be MOG, i.e. multiplayer online games. Because they are not massive in any way or form.

There are exeptions like Aion, where you can have houndreds fighting each other (very rare) but in all other cases themepark focus on 8-16 player encounters and as such should not be labeled massive to begin with.

  MMO.Maverick

Inquisitor

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 7792

The middle road is the place to be!

5/23/11 5:00:26 PM#109
Originally posted by grimal

I recommend removing the R for themepark/nonsandbox MMOs since one rarely finds roleplayers on them aside from the small dedicated subpopulation of the designated roleplaying servers.  So MMORPW and MMOG (just drop the P as well since P by itself is unnecessary).

Then you might remove the RP from MMORPW as well, since it shows a lack of understanding of what RP really is. You'll see no more roleplay in sandbox MMO's than you'll for example see in LotrO in Bree. The best example is EVE Online where RP clans are marginalised.

Sandbox MMO's are no RP paradises but world sim paradises for sim fans, that's a difference, completely different interpretation of what RP really entails to.

 

Originally posted by Yamota

A more fitting acronym for themeparks would be MOG, i.e. multiplayer online games. Because they are not massive in any way or form.

There are exeptions like Aion, where you can have houndreds fighting each other (very rare) but in all other cases themepark focus on 8-16 player encounters and as such should not be labeled massive to begin with.

Nah. that's I think just what people say who have grown out of touch with what the MMORGP genre offers today, bit of stuck in the past, not kept up with the times. No fault of theirs, of course, stuff like that happens everywhere

Nope, I'm sticking with MMORPW for sandbox MMO's and MMORPG's for the rest, it just makes more sense.

 

Anyway, this has gone way offtopic, back to OP topic!

The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's

The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."

  ichimarunico

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/09
Posts: 213

5/23/11 5:01:24 PM#110
Originally posted by engrishGold
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by engrishGold
I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

I would actually agree with this. Themeparks have no virtual world to speak of so not really MMORPGs in my book, but ever since WoW the definition of MMORPG has been stretched far wider than most of us veterans are comfortable with.

I mean when STO is classified as an MMORPG, with its houndreds of instances, then what is not an MMORPG?

Actually, I'm all for renaming sandbox MMO's in MMORPW's or MMORPWS, with the W and S for World and Simulation.

The G in MMORPG stands for Game, and as everyone can understand, WoW has had that focus on the 'Game' aspect far more than on the 'World' aspect, it does a better job of being a game than sandbox MMO's, while sandbox MMO's are better at the 'world' focus part than themepark MMO's.

It's the age old 'game design vs world design' discussion that even precedes the 'themepark MMO vs sandbox MMO design' debate.

So: MMORPW (W for World) to describe sandbox MMO's, MMORPG (G for Game) to describe themepark/non-sandbox MMO's 

 

 

Maybe if WOW was the first MMORPG ever made.

 

M59,UO,L1,those games are older than wow,and they were classified as MMORPGS.

 

WOW is a simplified version of those games,with less features,less gameplay options,and without a persistant world.

 

Since WOW is just a game,you could call it a single player rpg,not an MMORPG,since the community,the most important thing in an mmorpg,is almost none existant and not important.

I know I do 25-man current content solo all the time. /boggle

  gobla

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1415

C'est la vie.

5/23/11 5:01:44 PM#111
Originally posted by grimal

I recommend removing the R for themepark/nonsandbox MMOs since one rarely finds roleplayers on them aside from the small dedicated subpopulation of the designated roleplaying servers.  So MMORPW and MMOG (just drop the P as well since P by itself is unnecessary).

There's a bit of a split between RP ( role-playing as in immersing yourself in a fantasy world and acting it out ) and RPG ( stat-based computer game that's often accompanied by a story )

Imho RPGs should be renamed to CPGs ( Character Progression Games ) or something like that. But until that happens MMORPGs are exactly what the name entails, massively multiplayer online RPGs. There's just no RP in them, only RPG.

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  NeVeRLiFt

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 377

5/23/11 5:03:05 PM#112

People will blow through ToR's content in less than 30days... then what?

Serious how does ToR expect to keep and retain subs with nothing to do end-game accept chase gear?

Don't people want more from their MMO's end-game now?

 

edit:

and please don't bring up arena/pvp ... this has ruined WoW classes and like chasing gear for end-game, I will never play another MMO that ruins it's classes so bad over PvP


 

Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW
Playing: Sims 3, TSW & LoTRO
Waiting on: Everquest Next, ArcheAge, Wildstar & WoD!
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  gobla

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1415

C'est la vie.

5/23/11 5:05:19 PM#113
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

People will blow through ToR's content in less than 30days... then what?

Use their time-machines for more usefull things?

There's 200 hours per class story. That means 1600 hours total. A month only contains 720 hours.

And that's not counting any of the other content like flashpoints, crafting and PvP.

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  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6506

"I fight so you don't have to."

5/23/11 5:07:23 PM#114
Originally posted by gobla
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

People will blow through ToR's content in less than 30days... then what?

Use their time-machines for more usefull things?

There's 200 hours per class story. That means 1600 single player hours total. A month only contains 720 hours.

And that's not counting any of the other content like flashpoints, crafting and PvP.

Corrected that for you 

  BarakIII

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 802

5/23/11 5:07:51 PM#115
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

People will blow through ToR's content in less than 30days... then what?

Serious how does ToR expect to keep and retain subs with nothing to do end-game accept chase gear?

Don't people want more from their MMO's end-game now?

 

edit:

and please don't bring up arena/pvp ... this has ruined WoW classes and like chasing gear for end-game, I will never play another MMO that ruins it's classes so bad over PvP


 

You're assuming a lot when no information has been released on end game content.

  BarakIII

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 802

5/23/11 5:10:16 PM#116
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by engrishGold
I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

I would actually agree with this. Themeparks have no virtual world to speak of so not really MMORPGs in my book, but ever since WoW the definition of MMORPG has been stretched far wider than most of us veterans are comfortable with.

I mean when STO is classified as an MMORPG, with its houndreds of instances, then what is not an MMORPG?

Actually, I'm all for renaming sandbox MMO's in MMORPW's or MMORPWS, with the W and S for World and Simulation.

The G in MMORPG stands for Game, and as everyone can understand, WoW has had that focus on the 'Game' aspect far more than on the 'World' aspect, it does a better job of being a game than sandbox MMO's, while sandbox MMO's are better at the 'world' focus part than themepark MMO's.

It's the age old 'game design vs world design' discussion that even precedes the 'themepark MMO vs sandbox MMO design' debate.

So: MMORPW (W for World) to describe sandbox MMO's, MMORPG (G for Game) to describe themepark/non-sandbox MMO's 

I recommend removing the R for themepark/nonsandbox MMOs since one rarely finds roleplayers on them aside from the small dedicated subpopulation of the designated roleplaying servers.  So MMORPW and MMOG (just drop the P as well since P by itself is unnecessary).

A more fitting acronym for themeparks would be MOG, i.e. multiplayer online games. Because they are not massive in any way or form.

There are exeptions like Aion, where you can have houndreds fighting each other (very rare) but in all other cases themepark focus on 8-16 player encounters and as such should not be labeled massive to begin with.

They aren't called massive due to the size of their pvp battles, but rather due to how many people can play on the same server. They've never even suggested otherwise so I don't know where you got the idea that it had to do with pvp battles.

  NeVeRLiFt

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 377

5/23/11 5:10:18 PM#117
Originally posted by gobla
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

People will blow through ToR's content in less than 30days... then what?

Use their time-machines for more usefull things?

There's 200 hours per class story. That means 1600 hours total. A month only contains 720 hours.

And that's not counting any of the other content like flashpoints, crafting and PvP.

That does not excuse the fact that ToR has a weak end-game and nothing to do but chase gear.

And trust me people will blow through the content fast.... this is what happens with all on rails themepark games.

Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW
Playing: Sims 3, TSW & LoTRO
Waiting on: Everquest Next, ArcheAge, Wildstar & WoD!
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  gobla

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1415

C'est la vie.

5/23/11 5:10:27 PM#118
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by gobla
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

People will blow through ToR's content in less than 30days... then what?

Use their time-machines for more usefull things?

There's 200 hours per class story. That means 1600 single player hours total. A month only contains 720 hours.

And that's not counting any of the other content like flashpoints, crafting and PvP.

Corrected that for you 

Single player hours are only 27 minutes? But that wouldn't leave any time for food and sleep. 6 hours a day should be enough for that.

So that would mean a single player hour is 20 minutes and 15 seconds. Guess you could blow through all of SWToRs content in a month then.

In that case I suggest they maybe get a job afterwards? Possibly friends? Something in that direction.

We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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  twodayslate

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 756

5/23/11 5:11:37 PM#119
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by engrishGold
I woudln't call them mmorpgs,UO was a MMORPG,M59 was a MMORPG,lineage 1 was a MMORPG. They had strong communities,community based economy,no instancing,group based,true PVP,etc.

 

Themepark chat rooms have none of that,that's why they aren't MMORPGS.

I would actually agree with this. Themeparks have no virtual world to speak of so not really MMORPGs in my book, but ever since WoW the definition of MMORPG has been stretched far wider than most of us veterans are comfortable with.

I mean when STO is classified as an MMORPG, with its houndreds of instances, then what is not an MMORPG?

Actually, I'm all for renaming sandbox MMO's in MMORPW's or MMORPWS, with the W and S for World and Simulation.

The G in MMORPG stands for Game, and as everyone can understand, WoW has had that focus on the 'Game' aspect far more than on the 'World' aspect, it does a better job of being a game than sandbox MMO's, while sandbox MMO's are better at the 'world' focus part than themepark MMO's.

It's the age old 'game design vs world design' discussion that even precedes the 'themepark MMO vs sandbox MMO design' debate.

So: MMORPW (W for World) to describe sandbox MMO's, MMORPG (G for Game) to describe themepark/non-sandbox MMO's 

Or, the acronym could be left alone, and people could realize that the G part is highly subjective.  Part of what defines something as a game is the qualification that it be fun to partake in.  I don't consider sandboxes games simply because that style of gameplay, as it is currently defined, is not fun to me.

For example, being forced into a conflict because of the territory I am standing in, only to lose by default, simply because the opponent can field more bodies than I do?  Or how about being forced to deal with a bunch of people that I don't want anything to do with, simply because lone players have zero chance in the game world?  I do not find features of that nature fun, therefore titles that employ them are not games to me.  Rather, they are simply an excercise in masochism.  If I wanted that experience, I'd put on some dress clothes, get in my car, and drive for five minutes and cross the border into Mexico.

Certain types of people, on the other hand, find these types of features fun, therefore titles that employ them are valid games as far as they are concerned.  Everyone's interpretation of the acronym is different, and some that I've seen in this thread from the sandbox pushers border on fascist, but in the end it is still an opinion.

  gobla

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1415

C'est la vie.

5/23/11 5:14:24 PM#120
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt
Originally posted by gobla
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt

People will blow through ToR's content in less than 30days... then what?

Use their time-machines for more usefull things?

There's 200 hours per class story. That means 1600 hours total. A month only contains 720 hours.

And that's not counting any of the other content like flashpoints, crafting and PvP.

That does not excuse the fact that ToR has a weak end-game and nothing to do but chase gear.

And trust me people will blow through the content fast.... this is what happens with all on rails themepark games.

See that leaves you with 2 options:

  1. Buy SWToR anyway and waste 50 bucks learning a valueable life lesson that not all games are designed to please you personally
  2. Not buy SWToR and spend your 50 bucks instead on another game that might just be designed to match your personal preferences.
It really is a win-win situation. Either you get a life lesson, or if you already have it you get to play a cool game!
 
In the meantime I'll either be buying SWToR for it's standard MMO features and getting 8(!) great Bioware RPGs for absolutely free. Or I'll be buying SWToR for it's 8(!) great Bioware RPGs and getting all it's standard MMO features for free. I haven't decided yet, it's a tough choice.

We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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(")("),,(")("),(")(")

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