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News & Features Discussion  » General: Grinds My Gears: Can SOE Make It?

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139 posts found
  Troneas

Old School

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 910

SWG Refugee
Fringe Deserter

5/20/11 10:16:11 PM#61

thank you jon for finally saying how SOE's situation really is.

 

some of us have been predicting and alerting people of its downfall for years all the while reviews and articles here and elsewhere kept throwing flowers at this company.  

 

the question on my mind is this: if the company had had a clean slate before this debacle would this hack affect  the company in the long term as much as it will probably do?

 

i think the best way to find this out is to compare the recovery of the PSN to the SOE devision; but i don't think any real numbers will be released by Sony to make such a study. 

  Rinna

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/04
Posts: 386

5/20/11 10:36:06 PM#62

Start the SOE revamp with a computer game that lets gamers throw stones at Smedley.


Then fire him.


No bitchers.

  NeVeRLiFt

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 376

5/20/11 11:26:28 PM#63

SOE missed the boat.


They had the chance to make SWG and VG into great mmo's, all they had to do was listen to the paying customer/ the damn player base! and give them what they wanted.


SOE made their bed and now it's time they lay in it.


I pray they can pull something magical out their hat with EQ3....

Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW
Playing: Sims 3, TSW & LoTRO
Waiting on: Everquest Next, ArcheAge, Wildstar & WoD!
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3477

5/20/11 11:44:19 PM#64

Its not the security breach that made me step away from SOE, but the way they treat MMO's in their portfolio. Games like Vanguard and SWG dont get the dev attention they deserve. I would like to invest time in those because I really like them, but I quit them some time ago because they were barely moving forward. Because of the skeleton dev crew it takes so ridiculously long for anything substantial to be added or fixed in those games. I just cant take it serious anymore.

Same with DCU online. The release is just another half hearted attempt. Its just not complete and ready for release. Its too much of the same as with their other MMO's. Lot of plans, but realising it either takes way too long or wont happen at all. This made me not even interested in this title.

I feel bad for current SWG devteam because they did wonders with the few resources they have available to them. And they actually seem to take into account of what players ask for. But if you look at the timetable, its just not enough for a so called AAA MMO. Too slow and too late.

Its like they try to do a little bit of everything instead of focussing on less things and do their best with those.

  knox1711

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/29/06
Posts: 35

5/21/11 12:00:51 AM#65

I agree on that, the current SWG dev team...all 2 of them, are the best the game has seen in years and years.  Of course you can't underestimate the benefit getting rid of someone like blixtev.  If you dislike jedi, and arent interested in making them a fun, needed, viable class, then do NOT work on a star wars game...


The bottom line with SOE is that they are one of the worst run businesses I have ever seen.  They have NO understanding of the fundamental nature of their product and the importance of their customers.  MMO shops MUST realize they are in long term relationships with their customers and must always seek win-win approaches to development and problems. 


You never, ever alienate your customers, en masse, and you never teach them that the time and effort they sink into your games is worthless because you can and WILL wipe it out, overnight, with no recourse or consideration.  That is SOEs greatest sin.


 

  Nesrie

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/08
Posts: 652

5/21/11 2:12:02 AM#66

GIving me 45 days worth of play on games I have no real interest in anymore is... okay, but it's not going to win over any favors. SOE needs show they care about games beofre I am willing to pay for new ones and expect any sort of support for my trouble and money.

parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  zartan5000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 53

5/21/11 2:40:05 AM#67

SOE has been making substandard games for years. They continue to over-hype and push out their garbage, with a new helping on the way 3 months after the current inevitablely fails. I hope the hack event finally pushes them the rest of the way off the cliff of failure. They need to give up their strangle hold on all of these well known IPs and let more talented teams give them the games they deserve. F**K you SOE.


  zartan5000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 53

5/21/11 2:54:50 AM#68

Originally posted by Arthineas



I feel that SOE will be fine.  Sure they need to makes some changes, but I think they will continue to be around and I am glad.  I have a lot of good memories of EQ and EQ 2.  Personally I feel that EQ Next will be huge.  The only way that I could see them being in trouble is if EQ Next bombs, but I do not see that happening.


As far as the security breach goes, it could have happened to anyone.  The hackers just happened to pick the PSN.  Thats why if you are worried about your credit card information, you do not use your main account.  If you use a Visa debit tied to your bank account, you are just asking for trouble.  Always use a separate account just for games.  Or use game time cards or prepaid credit.



 


They hackers didn't just happen to choose SOE. They chose Sony and later SOE very much on purpose. Sony originally made it available to put thir party OS on the PS3, namely, Linux. They pulled the ability to do this and immediately started banning and pulling ppl up on charges. THAT is why they got hacked. they brought it all on themselves. They deserve it.


  Erstok

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/09
Posts: 581

Fanatics are picturesque, mankind would rather see gestures than listen to reason.

5/21/11 2:56:46 AM#69

Starting to get a feeling Sony itself loves dragging anything down around with it. Including SOE, and yes I'm also referring to in the past with NGE and every other stupid choice SOE has made. Getting an feeling that the gross incompetence wasn't fully SOE's fault but a mixture of Sony's itself, the parent company. Since I'm sure everyones seen how Sony went about with the data breach on their PS3. Since they brought down PSN themselves due to a faulty firmware update.

Then again their is no proof of that so just call it a hunch of mine.

Sausce


When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3477

5/21/11 4:54:57 AM#70

The world is going to watch next month's E3. If SOE can't get their act together by then, what will Sony's booth be like?

What about their presentation? The NGP?

So many questions and every journalist will be asking 'what happened'.

Worst timing I think. Sony finally had momentum against Xbox, NGP/Xperia was launching etc.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Ozmodan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6584

5/21/11 5:55:38 AM#71

Problem with SOE is the executive suite.  They have not had in inkling in a long time.  They had a great game in SWG and instead of fixing it, they destroyed it.  EQ II was never a good sequel to EQ.  Nothing subsequent has been more than mediocre.

Sony's only recourse, far as I can see, is to bring in some new blood at the top that has some vision.  They could still rise from the ashes with some new leadership.

  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 947

5/21/11 6:05:38 AM#72

If sony would make it legal to modify or Jailbreak PS3, I might buy one later when all the hacking stops.

If sony develop new MMORPG all 2011 graphics, epic story, no station cash store other than selling goods between players, and an actual system that people like without an items shop I believe that sony could make it, but with the condition sony is in right now, based on all their recent reputation, account compromise on many customers, and sony actually almost cost me a lot of money with another game due to leaked information although that security hole was closed really fast after I got the game company outside sony to change all information on my account.

Sony should have never have got involved with the Hotz hack, they should have simply let it be, as no one did anything wrong, not violated peoples privacy to begin with, and kept their security up to date sony could have avoid all this but since they wanted to play so did the hackers, and the hackers won.

45 Days of free game time is just useless to me and if I actually wanted I would rather sue sony for a few thousand than get 45 Days free lol I mean 45 days free of EQ 2 which is already free to play, and games that go back to development before 2009, I am sorry but these games are just too old, and while Sony maybe trying to say sorry to all its customers it is just not good enough for me to return for any reason even with free time.

  Aquitis

Novice Member

Joined: 3/10/09
Posts: 24

5/21/11 6:16:38 AM#73

SOE is a popular target and for good reason.  From a marketing perspective they really have to have a Dominos Pizza moment when they admit their games suck and they have made poor decisions in the past but promise to make changes.  I have never have done marketing work for a gaming company but my comerical would be a video camera following Smed being escorted out of the building by security. 


We honestly only represent a small sliver of their profit margins for SOE but we set the tone for sucess or failure.  No one will buy a game today without doing research online about the game and all SOE products will be treated with extra scrutiny.  The SWG pre-cu vets will not forget and not be silenced not now, and not 20 years from now.  SWG is a dying game they should give away the classic version and let people have their own servers.  New games need to have open worlds and freedom of choice its where everything is moving twards anyway.  I say if they don't have their Dominos moment externally and internally they might as well shut off the lights now.


 


Aquitis


Veteran Gamer 


  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

5/21/11 7:16:13 AM#74

Hey Jon:


You said about DCUO something I completely agree with!!! You said, "While I personally enjoyed the game while I played it, there were just too many bugs and exploits, not enough content, and too much time and pushed deadlines with any updates in content."  This is completely accurate state of the game.


Now, look at the pros and cons of the official review by MMORPG (copied below for you).  Under Cons, there is no mention about the complete lack of content (the content is actually listed as one of the Pros of the game), and the bugs are described as little and annoying.  One con that was mentioned that is accurate is the terrible chat interface.  


Just thought I'd point it out since your comments are spot on about the game, and the MMORPG.com official review was at best misleading about the game.  Perhaps it is time for someone at MMORPG to do a fast re-review of the game? 


 


Pros 


Deep character customization

 Excellent storylines & content

 Exceptional physics-based combat

 Feats as alternate advancement

 Superb presentation of the DC Universe


 


Cons 


Lack of information on powers & skills

 Many annoying little bugs

 Stunted Social & League UI

 Terrible chat interface


  erictlewis

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

5/21/11 8:18:54 AM#75
Originally posted by zartan5000

Originally posted by Arthineas



I feel that SOE will be fine.  Sure they need to makes some changes, but I think they will continue to be around and I am glad.  I have a lot of good memories of EQ and EQ 2.  Personally I feel that EQ Next will be huge.  The only way that I could see them being in trouble is if EQ Next bombs, but I do not see that happening.


As far as the security breach goes, it could have happened to anyone.  The hackers just happened to pick the PSN.  Thats why if you are worried about your credit card information, you do not use your main account.  If you use a Visa debit tied to your bank account, you are just asking for trouble.  Always use a separate account just for games.  Or use game time cards or prepaid credit.



 

They hackers didn't just happen to choose SOE. They chose Sony and later SOE very much on purpose. Sony originally made it available to put thir party OS on the PS3, namely, Linux. They pulled the ability to do this and immediately started banning and pulling ppl up on charges. THAT is why they got hacked. they brought it all on themselves. They deserve it.

{mod edit}  No soe did not deserve it and neither did those of us who play there games.  

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

5/21/11 9:07:55 AM#76

People keep saying Sony was targetted for special reasons, but the truth is their network security was terrible.  It was only a matter of time before someone exploited it.  Unpatched servers, known vulnerabilities, missing or improperly configured firewalls, lack of intrusion detection system, etc. 

Even after all the time spent "fixing" the network it has been hacked two more times and had a seriously ameutur level security mistake go live. 

LINK

LINK

LINK

This isn't a case of "it could happen to anyone", because most networks are not this poorly secured.   Odds are this isn't over with either, because the issues span the entire Sony network.

  Kothoses

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/08/10
Posts: 671

5/21/11 9:57:19 AM#77

As a life time subscriber to DCU I have mixed feelings, on the one hand I want to play DCU as I intended when I bought it, a side MMO that I would play casually while waiting for ToR and GW2.


 


On the other hand, as I said in the Cryptic thread, some one big needs to fail big to make sure developers go back to making good games, not marketable monetisable cash cows.


Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  User Deleted
5/21/11 10:07:34 AM#78
Originally posted by Kothoses

As a life time subscriber to DCU I have mixed feelings, on the one hand I want to play DCU as I intended when I bought it, a side MMO that I would play casually while waiting for ToR and GW2.


 


On the other hand, as I said in the Cryptic thread, some one big needs to fail big to make sure developers go back to making good games, not marketable monetisable cash cows.

 Monetisable ?  What the hell is that.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3048

5/21/11 10:11:31 AM#79

I got 2 words for ya...Good Riddens :)


  Regalius

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/10
Posts: 6

So many worlds,so much to do, so little done, such to be...Alfred Lord Tennyson

5/21/11 10:12:58 AM#80

I would like to see SOE focus on EQ. They can't seem to focus on building great games and keeping players happy at the same time. They just don't manage well. I played EQ during the golden days, I've had the station pass account, and I love my PS3. I don't hate SOE, I hate their management style. They do whatever they want without concern for the players. They ONLY care about money. I know, they are a business. BUT their business is PLAYERS, not just games.


SOE please do  the following to survive:


STOP:


1. Producing crappy games.


FOCUS on  making Everquest the best game out there. When EQ Next comes out make EQ1 free to play. Maybe even EQ2. 


2. Producing way too many expansions.


Expansions are great, but shelling out $40 every year for new content is just fleecing the players for cash. We want growth yes, a raping no. Many other successful games do free updates. For FREEEeeeeee! BTW EQ1 really began to die after PoP. Quick travel is great, but can leave the world feeling fragmented.


3. Ignoring the forums and players opinions. 


NEVER ever ever do a NGE again. WTF? I played SWG after the NGE and all the outrage, but I can relate to what the pre-NGE players talk about. SWG is a shell of what it should be.


PLAYERS = success. You business is PLAYERS, making games is how you bring them in.


4. Treating Developers like "red-headed step-children"


Granted there may be the need to stay on top of employees, but they are the most in touch with the game (your product) and the Players (your Business). Players are keenly aware of the way your treat your staff. We want GMs in the games. STAY involved and we will too. One of the things I lkike about Rift is that the GMs are present. EQ1 used to have a dedicated GMs per server, people who solved problems and talked with you. This is called customer service, that is what we notice most.


SOE has had (has) crappy managers and managment, but for a time all of these games have been fun. SOE needs a focused (said this alot I know) direction and business plan. A plan that includes Players and Employees in discisions and consequenses. Any company that acts like a giant ego moron will suffer cyber attacks (can u say  Microsoft! !?! It's a modern world businesses need to protect against the new-age crooks, even when they are liked.


These are just my opinions folks. I've played many MMORPGs, and I know what I like.  I would like to see SOE survive, but only if they wise-up.


TTFN

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