... the game must be really popular. Not only popular but the game must be quite good. The mmorpg.com boards do not lie. Rift bashing might still be second fiddle to WoW bashing on these forums (using WoW to bash Rift if my personal favorite), but it seems to be a trend with good games. And the "crap" games tend to get the VIP treatment.

The more you bash Rift mmorpg.com forums... the more you secure its place as a high quality, good game.

Rift is the flavor of the month.  Once SWTOR and GW2 releases it'll fade into the background like the rest of the "VIP Treatment MMOs."

Lol nice try 

I just find it amusing how the forums here could almost be used as a litmus test of an MMO's success. Surely Rift has "recently" been released so its still fresh in people's minds. I just hope SWTOR gets bashed more than WoW if you catch my drift ;) 

MMORPG.COM has larger than average amount of sandbox fans and jaded MMO vets who dislike themepark games.

They don't want themepark MMO's to be popular or seen as thriving, healthy and likeable MMO's because it will detract from the type of games that they do like to see made and thriving, so that's why there'll be a larger than average amount of bashing themepark styled MMO's on sites like this one.

Rift hate? Rift bashing? WHERE?  All I ever see around here is constant glorification of the game. Are we reading the same boards?

I have honestly never seen a game so "drooled over" around here after release. Not since WoW was released have I seen so many love letters to a game. So seriously.....where are these hate threads?

Originally posted by just1opinion

Rift hate? Rift bashing? WHERE?  All I ever see around here is constant glorification of the game. Are we reading the same boards?

I have honestly never seen a game so "drooled over" around here after release. Not since WoW was released have I seen so many love letters to a game. So seriously.....where are these hate threads?

I did notice there are a lot of ironically titled threads here like "Rift WoW-Clone" which comments on how Rift is not a WoW Clone. Of course some of these threads skew the count in the Rift bashing direction.

Well said as always. I really shouldn't be surprised to see the dislike of games that differ so much from what the vets and sandbox gamers here on the forums would want. It just amuses me. I wonder if there is a place where the themepark MMO players gather to talk about their dislike of sandbox games...

Originally posted by ScrimMaltese

{mod edit}. 

Nice tinfoil hat.  I'm sure it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that those sorts of threads, much like the WoW bashing ones, usually degenerate into penis waving/name calling/insult tossing messes.

On topic though, just started the free trial of Rift myself, and it's a nice change from the usual theme park drive.  Still in a "wait and see" mode, but I like the customizability of the classes.

(mod edit)

An invisible tinfoil hat. Very cool. I need to get one of those.

Originally posted by VikingGamer

(mod edit)

An invisible tinfoil hat. Very cool. I need to get one of those.

Yeah, invisible. lol

c'mon guys, lets be realistic. Its not the fact that ppl around here hate RIft, or are mostly sandbox players. This is a site that praises GW2, SWTOR, Tera...ect. These aren't sandbox games nor do they really defer that much from Rift and mainstream MMO's. What is very "trendy" in this site is to love the yet to be released MMO's and "hate" released MMO's.

With regards to Rift itself, they kind of fall into the same category as many other games that claim way much more than what they are. And the mmorpg.com community is VERY picky when it comes to excecution of ideas and very forgiving to the yet to be released ideas.

One more thing to point out, I believe the writers from mmorpg.com do NOT reflect my comments. They tend to be more open minded probably because their job demands them to.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

MMORPG.COM has larger than average amount of sandbox fans and jaded MMO vets who dislike themepark games.

They don't want themepark MMO's to be popular or seen as thriving, healthy and likeable MMO's because it will detract from the type of games that they do like to see made and thriving, so that's why there'll be a larger than average amount of bashing themepark styled MMO's on sites like this one.

So this is more or less saying 90% of the MMORPG.com members will be digging the shit out of The Secret Life? I sure as hell will be. Even though I play Rift, its holding me over till The Secret World is released. If you think GW2 and SWTOR are not going to be theme park, and will be sandboxy, boy you have another thing coming to you lol

TSW is the only game with any real innovative promise.

Originally posted by Kuppa

c'mon guys, lets be realistic. Its not the fact that ppl around here hate RIft, or are mostly sandbox players. This is a site that praises GW2, SWTOR, Tera...ect. These aren't sandbox games nor do they really defer that much from Rift and mainstream MMO's. What is very "trendy" in this site is to love the yet to be released MMO's and "hate" released MMO's.

 

With regards to Rift itself, they kind of fall into the same category as many other games that claim way much more than what they are. And the mmorpg.com community is VERY picky when it comes to excecution of ideas and very forgiving to the yet to be released ideas.

 

One more thing to point out, I believe the writers from mmorpg.com do NOT reflect my comments. They tend to be more open minded probably because their job demands them to.

YES!!!! ^^^^^^

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

MMORPG.COM has larger than average amount of sandbox fans and jaded MMO vets who dislike themepark games.

They don't want themepark MMO's to be popular or seen as thriving, healthy and likeable MMO's because it will detract from the type of games that they do like to see made and thriving, so that's why there'll be a larger than average amount of bashing themepark styled MMO's on sites like this one.

I think you have misplaced notion that many veteran and jaded gamers that visit these forum boards hate themeparks.  I could be wrong, and I do not mean to speak for others, but for me it is a lack of creative end game that is, in my opinion, hurting themeparks.  I am more than willing to play a themepark based game if they would do away with the current model that makes their end games so grindy and boring.

Stop making gear the quintessential be-all, end-all, of game rewards.

Bring back meaningful open world PvP.

Adding a couple mega-hitpoint Boss MOBS stuck back in some static dungeon, that you run repeatedly, does not an end game make.

I think this is what many of us jaded and veteran gamers are tired of the most.  These games have become to shallow.  It has been boiled down to a point of over simplification.   Why can't there be more meaningful game play elements added to these games.

How about putting in territorial control?

How about a liege system similar to Asheron's Call and let players create their own kingdoms?

How about a robust resource gathering, crafting, and trade systems that allow players to make things that are useful at all levels of game play?

How about community oriented game play elements - like maintaining towns and cities, or even building something that can benefit all those that participate in the building of it?

How about real dynamic events based on player actions?  Players attempt to slay a dragon that has been raiding a village and killing its livestock.   They fail.  The dragon gets pissed and attacks the biggest city in the area.   Or how about a random envasion of MOB X moves into your factions lands and starts raiding and pillaging villages and towns.  They intend to make a new home for themselves by taking yours!  If the players do not fight back they can find themselves being laid siege to in their main cities! 

Allow for more dynamic and open game play choices - allow for players to pick what side they wish to start out, by joining any faction they choose.  Stop pidgeonholing players into set in stone classes and skill trees.   Allow some sandbox elements to be included into the themepark that will enable players to create player made content(within reason and using tools provided by the game).

Seriously...themeparks can be made better.  They can be made to feel less like riding rails and more like flying a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious magic carpet of fun!

Originally posted by maitrader

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

MMORPG.COM has larger than average amount of sandbox fans and jaded MMO vets who dislike themepark games.

They don't want themepark MMO's to be popular or seen as thriving, healthy and likeable MMO's because it will detract from the type of games that they do like to see made and thriving, so that's why there'll be a larger than average amount of bashing themepark styled MMO's on sites like this one.

 

So this is more or less saying 90% of the MMORPG.com members will be digging the shit out of The Secret Life? I sure as hell will be. Even though I play Rift, its holding me over till The Secret World is released. If you think GW2 and SWTOR are not going to be theme park, and will be sandboxy, boy you have another thing coming to you lol

TSW is the only game with any real innovative promise.

 While I somewhat agree on SWTOR, but referring GW2 as a Themepark MMO makes me wonder if you are one of those clueless that only watch a demo and automatically assume it's gonna be another Themepark MMO.  GW2 is providing plenty of innovating features that it won't be part of the Themepark genre.  While it does hold the fantasy similarities, about every aspect of the game mechanics is different.  While it's no sandbox, it's no way in hell a Themepark MMO.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

MMORPG.COM has larger than average amount of sandbox fans and jaded MMO vets who dislike themepark games.

They don't want themepark MMO's to be popular or seen as thriving, healthy and likeable MMO's because it will detract from the type of games that they do like to see made and thriving, so that's why there'll be a larger than average amount of bashing themepark styled MMO's on sites like this one.

I think you have misplaced notion that many veteran and jaded gamers that visit these forum boards hate themeparks.  I could be wrong, and I do not mean to speak for others, but for me it is a lack of creative end game that is, in my opinion, hurting themeparks.  I am more than willing to play a themepark based game if they would do away with the current model that makes their end games so grindy and boring.

Stop making gear the quintessential be-all, end-all, of game rewards.

Bring back meaningful open world PvP.

Adding a couple mega-hitpoint Boss MOBS stuck back in some static dungeon, that you run repeatedly, does not an end game make.

I think this is what many of us jaded and veteran gamers are tired of the most.  These games have become to shallow.  It has been boiled down to a point of over simplification.   Why can't there be more meaningful game play elements added to these games.

How about putting in territorial control?

How about a liege system similar to Asheron's Call and let players create their own kingdoms?

How about a robust resource gathering, crafting, and trade systems that allow players to make things that are useful at all levels of game play?

How about community oriented game play elements - like maintaining towns and cities, or even building something that can benefit all those that participate in the building of it?

How about real dynamic events based on player actions?  Players attempt to slay a dragon that has been raiding a village and killing its livestock.   They fail.  The dragon gets pissed and attacks the biggest city in the area.   Or how about a random envasion of MOB X moves into your factions lands and starts raiding and pillaging villages and towns.  They intend to make a new home for themselves by taking yours!  If the players do not fight back they can find themselves being laid siege to in their main cities! 

Allow for more dynamic and open game play choices - allow for players to pick what side they wish to start out, by joining any faction they choose.  Stop pidgeonholing players into set in stone classes and skill trees.   Allow some sandbox elements to be included into the themepark that will enable players to create player made content(within reason and using tools provided by the game).

Seriously...themeparks can be made better.  They can be made to feel less like riding rails and more like flying a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious magic carpet of fun!

  This!  I have been playing MMORPG's for a long time now, and the dislike comes from the state of the Themepark MMO's not Themeparks themselves.  The genre has been stuck in a rut over the years in the same old tired system, race to end game through a linear path of progression, get geared up, why?  So you can get even more geared up.  What do you do then?  You try to PvP, but in these games which are mostly 2 faction based games it doesn't exist outside of Instances.

  Rift for example, is super super linear, and will be exactly the same each time you level.  The content is okay, but it's just a boring old system they employ, and I am seriously getting bored with it.  So much that I just let my sub run out.  I've done nearly everything in the game, I've even kicked the dang dragon Greenscale in the face, I've done River of Souls, but I just haven't done the new 10 man yet.  However, it doesn't matter, because I am so exhausted of this boring style of MMO's, and what's worse is the PvP is absolutely horrid.

  PvP in Rift hardly happens outside of a Warfront and the Warfronts themselves can hardly be called PvP.  Not only are they dull and generic, they are also ruled by cheese.  That's right, with each patch there are builds that absolutely rule the WF, and if you don't have the luck of having guildies on that are these classes well you're probably gonna lose to the Defiant with double premades because of their insta pops.  Right now it is Clerics and Voidknight Warriors in Black Garden.  It's absolutely rediculous.  Even worse, when we face these guys in organized PvP matches in the open world where their cheese accounts for nothing, we stomp them. 

Basically, I'm gonna feed fuel to the fire, Rift sucks and I'm done with it.

Originally posted by Meltdown

... the game must be really popular. Not only popular but the game must be quite good. The mmorpg.com boards do not lie. Rift bashing might still be second fiddle to WoW bashing on these forums (using WoW to bash Rift if my personal favorite), but it seems to be a trend with good games. And the "crap" games tend to get the VIP treatment.

 

The more you bash Rift mmorpg.com forums... the more you secure its place as a high quality, good game.

Just like AoC and Vanguard, right? Your join date is '03, so I know you were around to see the bashing those games recieved. Far, far worse than Rift.

Originally posted by darlok6666

 

 While I somewhat agree on SWTOR, but referring GW2 as a Themepark MMO makes me wonder if you are one of those clueless that only watch a demo and automatically assume it's gonna be another Themepark MMO.  GW2 is providing plenty of innovating features that it won't be part of the Themepark genre.  While it does hold the fantasy similarities, about every aspect of the game mechanics is different.  While it's no sandbox, it's no way in hell a Themepark MMO.

Ummm I did a lot of research on GW2 after hearing so many different things about it a few months ago.  I watched the keynote that was an hour long.  I watched the boring videos of people running around playing the game.

GW2 is most certainly a themepark.   That does not mean the game will be bad.  But it is most certainly a themepark game.  They will have chosen to do a hidden PQ system which will cycle in different phases that will trigger new PQs.  Eventually the chain will reset and go back to the first PQ again.  The difference between GW2 themepark and others is thus,

They will eliminate (although not entirely for the personal story) the hunt and fetch traditional quest system.  You'll now log on and go do a quest somewhere randomly with some dude hanging out in the world to point you in the general direction of where to go (that guy is called a scout.)  You'll do the PQ and then go find another guy to give you karma, that you'll use as basicallly a currency system to level up your character.  You also could hold off and just do more PQs in the area triggering further chained events along the PQ line.  You'll still kill 10x Rats quests, but they hide this requirement by moving the amount of creatures you need to kill into something called a morale level.  As you kill rats, the morale level goes lower and eventually they'll run away and PQ completes.  Pretty interesting idea actually, as it remains more thematic.

TL;DR  -

In short, Yes, GW2 will be a Themepark MMO.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

MMORPG.COM has larger than average amount of sandbox fans and jaded MMO vets who dislike themepark games.

They don't want themepark MMO's to be popular or seen as thriving, healthy and likeable MMO's because it will detract from the type of games that they do like to see made and thriving, so that's why there'll be a larger than average amount of bashing themepark styled MMO's on sites like this one.

I think you have misplaced notion that many veteran and jaded gamers that visit these forum boards hate themeparks.  I could be wrong, and I do not mean to speak for others, but for me it is a lack of creative end game that is, in my opinion, hurting themeparks.  I am more than willing to play a themepark based game if they would do away with the current model that makes their end games so grindy and boring.

Stop making gear the quintessential be-all, end-all, of game rewards.

Bring back meaningful open world PvP.

Adding a couple mega-hitpoint Boss MOBS stuck back in some static dungeon, that you run repeatedly, does not an end game make.

I think this is what many of us jaded and veteran gamers are tired of the most.  These games have become to shallow.  It has been boiled down to a point of over simplification.   Why can't there be more meaningful game play elements added to these games.

How about putting in territorial control?

How about a liege system similar to Asheron's Call and let players create their own kingdoms?

How about a robust resource gathering, crafting, and trade systems that allow players to make things that are useful at all levels of game play?

How about community oriented game play elements - like maintaining towns and cities, or even building something that can benefit all those that participate in the building of it?

How about real dynamic events based on player actions?  Players attempt to slay a dragon that has been raiding a village and killing its livestock.   They fail.  The dragon gets pissed and attacks the biggest city in the area.   Or how about a random envasion of MOB X moves into your factions lands and starts raiding and pillaging villages and towns.  They intend to make a new home for themselves by taking yours!  If the players do not fight back they can find themselves being laid siege to in their main cities! 

Allow for more dynamic and open game play choices - allow for players to pick what side they wish to start out, by joining any faction they choose.  Stop pidgeonholing players into set in stone classes and skill trees.   Allow some sandbox elements to be included into the themepark that will enable players to create player made content(within reason and using tools provided by the game).

Seriously...themeparks can be made better.  They can be made to feel less like riding rails and more like flying a supercalifragilisticexpialidocious magic carpet of fun!

Simply put,  much of what you are saying won't keep players around,  it may keep a certain TYPE of player around,  but there WERE games with features similar and there WILL be games coming out shortly with many of those features,  but ultimately even if a game had all of those features many players still wouldn't be happy with it.   

The only true Dynamic events we'll see in the near future will come from player interactions on games that allow items like territorial control.  You'll have games like GW2 that will have pre scripted Dynamic Events which is basically a replacement of the traditional questing mechanic,  and while this is a welcome evolution,  to me, it doesn't seem to have a lasting appeal.  Sure we stopped the orcs from destroying the town,  so... same time tomorrow?

The thing is, people want games, events, and systems to happen around them in a way that they can SEE them.  THEY want everything to happen in such a way that they get to be a part of it,  but its impossible to do that realistically without that becoming repetitive over time.

Thats why rewards and a focus are needed and why the gear grind came into place.  Territorial objectives in SWTOR will be awesome,  for a bit.  But what do I do after I've retaken Hoth for the 15th time?  What rewards will there be for control of that world?  

And even worse,  if you build kingdoms that can be sieged and destroyed,  that ends up only appealing to the smallest niche as most players don't like the idea of working so hard to build something that can be destroyed tomorrow in the blink of an eye -- even when you're offline.  

I think a game will eventually come out that will cater to what people think they want,  and when it does I wonder how long the most jaded will let it last before they complain they want more.  

Rift bashing?  Funny...  compared to WAR, AOC, MO and Darkfall this is nothing.

Rift pulled off a clean release, and the only controversy is whether or not it copied from WoW.  On that one, I say who cares?  WoW didn't invent anything other than phasing.