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News & Features Discussion  » Ultima Online: Venerable IP Ultima-tely to Fly Again?

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52 posts found
  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

5/09/11 2:25:25 PM#21
Originally posted by afropuff420

UO was my first MMORPG. I also think it was the best. It kept my interest for many many years. I've always thought about what i'd like to see if they were to develop a new UO style game. Honestly, I think if they just had a better graphics engine, and the same core gameplay that UO had from 98-99, people would get excited. Even though I will say, the Gameplay is what made UO so great. I think if you had the UO world, with let's say HoN style graphics, it would look good, and play good. I also think they just added way to many features to UO. I quit playing before samurai, and all the other addons. They should just stick to the basics which work. You really don't need to add alot of fluff to win the hearts and minds of your followers. 

 Great point afropuff!

 

I was just saying in another thread that where the most recent indie developers who have tried to give Sandbox MMORPGs a go failed was that they tried to keep up with the Jones' (Blizzard, EA, NCSofts of the world) in the realm of graphics, features, etc, and ultimately failed because they didn't have the resources.

 

Mortal Online & DarkFall Online both launched with buggy graphics, animations, and about half the features promised.  It took Aventurine years and years fo work and rework because they had to completely redesign their own custom 3D engine half way through because the technology they used when they started became out of date.  Star Vault ended up building their game around an old antiquated 3D engine that Lineage 2 made popular back in 2004. 

 

The result is terrible launches with disapointed players.  Being as most sandbox games are so heavily dependent on the community, you've essentially gaurenteed failure before the game has had a fighting chance because the launch scared everyone back to what ever it is they were playing before.

 

If someone could just lift Ultima Online's game mechanics and stick them ontop of a Battle of Immortals / Torch Light 2 type of graphics....you'd have a financial success on your hands.  They do this all the time in the F2P realm.  They lift another game's mechanics and graphic textures, put a ton of restrictions on free play and slap a cash shop on it.  It seems like one of these games comes out every month.  It can't be expensive to do (MUCH less expensive than SW:TOR anyway).

  waynejr2

Elite Member

Joined: 4/12/11
Posts: 3863

RIP City of Heroes!

5/09/11 2:34:42 PM#22
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by afropuff420

UO was my first MMORPG. I also think it was the best. It kept my interest for many many years. I've always thought about what i'd like to see if they were to develop a new UO style game. Honestly, I think if they just had a better graphics engine, and the same core gameplay that UO had from 98-99, people would get excited. Even though I will say, the Gameplay is what made UO so great. I think if you had the UO world, with let's say HoN style graphics, it would look good, and play good. I also think they just added way to many features to UO. I quit playing before samurai, and all the other addons. They should just stick to the basics which work. You really don't need to add alot of fluff to win the hearts and minds of your followers. 

 Great point afropuff!

 

I was just saying in another thread that where the most recent indie developers who have tried to give Sandbox MMORPGs a go failed was that they tried to keep up with the Jones' (Blizzard, EA, NCSofts of the world) in the realm of graphics, features, etc, and ultimately failed because they didn't have the resources.

 

Mortal Online & DarkFall Online both launched with buggy graphics, animations, and about half the features promised.  It took Aventurine years and years fo work and rework because they had to completely redesign their own custom 3D engine half way through because the technology they used when they started became out of date.  Star Vault ended up building their game around an old antiquated 3D engine that Lineage 2 made popular back in 2004. 

 

The result is terrible launches with disapointed players.  Being as most sandbox games are so heavily dependent on the community, you've essentially gaurenteed failure before the game has had a fighting chance because the launch scared everyone back to what ever it is they were playing before.

 

If someone could just lift Ultima Online's game mechanics and stick them ontop of a Battle of Immortals / Torch Light 2 type of graphics....you'd have a financial success on your hands.  They do this all the time in the F2P realm.  They lift another game's mechanics and graphic textures, put a ton of restrictions on free play and slap a cash shop on it.  It seems like one of these games comes out every month.  It can't be expensive to do (MUCH less expensive than SW:TOR anyway).

 I don't think that is true.  IMO, the problem is choice.  When UO was a hit, how many mmorpgs did they have to choose from vs how many they have today.  The community was great because people were forced to play together AND they were trying to make the best of the situation.  Once other options opened up, well, we remember what happened.

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

5/09/11 4:01:04 PM#23
Originally posted by waynejr2
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by afropuff420

UO was my first MMORPG. I also think it was the best. It kept my interest for many many years. I've always thought about what i'd like to see if they were to develop a new UO style game. Honestly, I think if they just had a better graphics engine, and the same core gameplay that UO had from 98-99, people would get excited. Even though I will say, the Gameplay is what made UO so great. I think if you had the UO world, with let's say HoN style graphics, it would look good, and play good. I also think they just added way to many features to UO. I quit playing before samurai, and all the other addons. They should just stick to the basics which work. You really don't need to add alot of fluff to win the hearts and minds of your followers. 

 Great point afropuff!

 

I was just saying in another thread that where the most recent indie developers who have tried to give Sandbox MMORPGs a go failed was that they tried to keep up with the Jones' (Blizzard, EA, NCSofts of the world) in the realm of graphics, features, etc, and ultimately failed because they didn't have the resources.

 

Mortal Online & DarkFall Online both launched with buggy graphics, animations, and about half the features promised.  It took Aventurine years and years fo work and rework because they had to completely redesign their own custom 3D engine half way through because the technology they used when they started became out of date.  Star Vault ended up building their game around an old antiquated 3D engine that Lineage 2 made popular back in 2004. 

 

The result is terrible launches with disapointed players.  Being as most sandbox games are so heavily dependent on the community, you've essentially gaurenteed failure before the game has had a fighting chance because the launch scared everyone back to what ever it is they were playing before.

 

If someone could just lift Ultima Online's game mechanics and stick them ontop of a Battle of Immortals / Torch Light 2 type of graphics....you'd have a financial success on your hands.  They do this all the time in the F2P realm.  They lift another game's mechanics and graphic textures, put a ton of restrictions on free play and slap a cash shop on it.  It seems like one of these games comes out every month.  It can't be expensive to do (MUCH less expensive than SW:TOR anyway).

 I don't think that is true.  IMO, the problem is choice.  When UO was a hit, how many mmorpgs did they have to choose from vs how many they have today.  The community was great because people were forced to play together AND they were trying to make the best of the situation.  Once other options opened up, well, we remember what happened.

 You make a good point, and I completely agree that there were people playing Ultima Online that "sucked up" a lot of things that they would have liked to see done in a different way because it was essentially the UO way or go back to your console or pen & paper. 

 

But that was then......and just as the lay of the MMO land in the late 90s shapped the Ultima Online experience, there are certian key things happening in the MMO space now that makes another UO type experience right about time.

 

I've been reading these forums (and others) a bit and I'm starting to get the feel that many MMORPG fans (and I mean "many" in the most relative term) that are just sick and tired of the linear themepark model.  Lots of the new MMO generation, that cut their teeth on World of Warcraft back in 2004, have graduated and are looking for something a bit more deep and challenging.  You also have a large crowd of old school MMORPG fans that have been looking for the second coming to UO. 

 

But lets define success for  a minute....more specifically financial success.  I did some research on Battle of the Immortals and it looks like they spent a year in development and probably spent a few million dollars.  The system reqs are such that any computer built in the last 6-7 years can play the game well.  Slap the Ultima Online title on it and promise a revisit to UO's sandbox glory and you should have no problem getting atleast 100k subs.

100,000 box sales @ $30 a pop = $3,000,000

If they are able to maintain 50,000 subs for a year = $6,000,000 in a year's worth of monthly subs @ $10 a month.

EA would of course have advertising expenses, hardware costs, etc.....but should easily be able to have financial success given these conservative numbers.

 

Now compare those numbers to the precident Bioware is setting with SW:TOR.  State of the Art Graphics & Animation, Best in practice developers, social scientists, symphony composers & orchestra for sound track, and a massive marketing campaign...topping out around 300-400 million dollars.

 

An indie sandbox developer (in the current MMORPG market state) cannot expect to go up head to head with those kind of costs and features and expect to come out alive, with a polished and complete product at release.

  uohaloran

Novice Member

Joined: 11/16/05
Posts: 832

5/09/11 4:10:57 PM#24

I share the sentiments that if anyone is going to do Ultima justice, it wont be it's current owners.


 


EA had royalty in their hands and they just covered it with mud.


  bezado

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/04
Posts: 1143

*WARNING*
Objects in mirror are closer to Trolls than they appear.

5/09/11 4:11:02 PM#25

I doubt they can make UO again and do it like the original. With a 3D world and modern mmorpg concept. Because developers who remake titles usually remake a whole new type of game and just add in lore with bits and pieces here and there. To truly remake UO they would have to keep everything the way it is just update graphics and the world. If they did that I would play it in a heartbeat. We all know what happened to Ultima Online 2 that got scrapped way back.

If they can do what SONY is doing with Everquest Next, the true EQ 2 then by all means go for it. EQ Next developers are keeping everything from EQ and just updating the world graphics and adding some new stuff. Pretty much what they would need to make this work for UO cause UO was just so good you leave stuff out on a remake it turns into a new game.

*COUGH* remember Asherons Call 2, yeah that's what happens when Devs try remake a original and fail to keep the original intact.

  finnmacool1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 482

5/09/11 4:28:51 PM#26
Originally posted by Groot

The problem is, nothing will ever be like UO.  UO was the only game to play back then and everyone from pve players, to pvp, to crafters, to roleplayers, etc etc all logged into the same world.  That's what made the world so great, the community so strong, and the game work.  The entire MMORPG niche was carved with that game.  There will not be a world like that again because all these different types of players have the option of picking a game that suits their playstyle, not creating their own role in a game in a world that they can do anything.  Laziness, the large influx of ultra casual players, and people interested in being the super duper hero all the time prevent a world and community like Ultima Online had from forming in the modern world of MMORPGs.  Our niche is tainted and won't ever recover.  

Yes its everyone elses fault for not playing a game the way you think it should be played. All the people playing games that appeal to them infringes on your gameplay. Maybe you should tell everyone the world revolves around you and they will play the game you want, the way you want.

You sound like a bitter,grumpy,old man reminiscing about the good ole days of big bands and vinyl records. Change happens,adapt or die. There will never be another "first" love or game,or sexual partner. That doesnt mean everything that follows is somehow worse or that something in the future cant recaptures those emotions/feelings. It only means things that follow will be different.

  bezado

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/04
Posts: 1143

*WARNING*
Objects in mirror are closer to Trolls than they appear.

5/09/11 4:37:21 PM#27
Originally posted by finnmacool1
Originally posted by Groot

The problem is, nothing will ever be like UO.  UO was the only game to play back then and everyone from pve players, to pvp, to crafters, to roleplayers, etc etc all logged into the same world.  That's what made the world so great, the community so strong, and the game work.  The entire MMORPG niche was carved with that game.  There will not be a world like that again because all these different types of players have the option of picking a game that suits their playstyle, not creating their own role in a game in a world that they can do anything.  Laziness, the large influx of ultra casual players, and people interested in being the super duper hero all the time prevent a world and community like Ultima Online had from forming in the modern world of MMORPGs.  Our niche is tainted and won't ever recover.  

Yes its everyone elses fault for not playing a game the way you think it should be played. All the people playing games that appeal to them infringes on your gameplay. Maybe you should tell everyone the world revolves around you and they will play the game you want, the way you want.

You sound like a bitter,grumpy,old man reminiscing about the good ole days of big bands and vinyl records. Change happens,adapt or die. There will never be another "first" love or game,or sexual partner. That doesnt mean everything that follows is somehow worse or that something in the future cant recaptures those emotions/feelings. It only means things that follow will be different.

I would agree and disagree with you, if you were talking anything other then a first title premiere mmorpg. The guy was just saying how when the game came out it was the premiere game players had no other choices and thus the game molded them into who they were and community. Now days there are to many weak and POS mmo's that it's hard for any new player to get the same feeling we once had by playing UO or EQ. New mmorpg today are to easy, they create your path to follow and ultimately are carebear in how things work.

I believe your right change happens but the fact this is a game that shouldn't be redone unless they keep the original mechanics and game play intact. Read my post above yours for further details what I mean.

  RajCaj

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/08
Posts: 684

5/09/11 4:44:27 PM#28
Originally posted by finnmacool1
Originally posted by Groot

The problem is, nothing will ever be like UO.  UO was the only game to play back then and everyone from pve players, to pvp, to crafters, to roleplayers, etc etc all logged into the same world.  That's what made the world so great, the community so strong, and the game work.  The entire MMORPG niche was carved with that game.  There will not be a world like that again because all these different types of players have the option of picking a game that suits their playstyle, not creating their own role in a game in a world that they can do anything.  Laziness, the large influx of ultra casual players, and people interested in being the super duper hero all the time prevent a world and community like Ultima Online had from forming in the modern world of MMORPGs.  Our niche is tainted and won't ever recover.  

Yes its everyone elses fault for not playing a game the way you think it should be played. All the people playing games that appeal to them infringes on your gameplay. Maybe you should tell everyone the world revolves around you and they will play the game you want, the way you want.

You sound like a bitter,grumpy,old man reminiscing about the good ole days of big bands and vinyl records. Change happens,adapt or die. There will never be another "first" love or game,or sexual partner. That doesnt mean everything that follows is somehow worse or that something in the future cant recaptures those emotions/feelings. It only means things that follow will be different.

 It sounds like YOU are the bitter grumpy one.  The poster you quoted was just pointing out a dynamic that existed in the game that DOES NOT EXIST today.....which ultimately had an effect on the community as a whole.

 

No where in thier post did that say that everyone should be wedged in a sandbox game so that sandbox enthusiasts can have a large MMORPG.  The fact of the matter was (in 1997) if you didn't like little aspects of the game play of Ultima Online, you either...

A) Went back to your console game

B) Went back to your pen & papper D&D

C) Sucked it up and adapted

 

For many, they went back to their Console or pen & papper game.  For the rest that decided to "deal" with minor aspects of the game play, they typically ended up becoming better "Gamers" because of it.  Not better people.....better gamers, as defined as someone who is capable of playing and manipulating their character and environment for their benefit.  As a UO player for over 4 years....I can tell you the average player in the Ultima Online community was FAR more knowledgeable of their character and the game than you'll find in an average player in World of Warcraft.

  finnmacool1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 482

5/09/11 5:04:42 PM#29
Originally posted by RajCaj
Originally posted by finnmacool1
Originally posted by Groot

The problem is, nothing will ever be like UO.  UO was the only game to play back then and everyone from pve players, to pvp, to crafters, to roleplayers, etc etc all logged into the same world.  That's what made the world so great, the community so strong, and the game work.  The entire MMORPG niche was carved with that game.  There will not be a world like that again because all these different types of players have the option of picking a game that suits their playstyle, not creating their own role in a game in a world that they can do anything.  Laziness, the large influx of ultra casual players, and people interested in being the super duper hero all the time prevent a world and community like Ultima Online had from forming in the modern world of MMORPGs.  Our niche is tainted and won't ever recover.  

Yes its everyone elses fault for not playing a game the way you think it should be played. All the people playing games that appeal to them infringes on your gameplay. Maybe you should tell everyone the world revolves around you and they will play the game you want, the way you want.

You sound like a bitter,grumpy,old man reminiscing about the good ole days of big bands and vinyl records. Change happens,adapt or die. There will never be another "first" love or game,or sexual partner. That doesnt mean everything that follows is somehow worse or that something in the future cant recaptures those emotions/feelings. It only means things that follow will be different.

 It sounds like YOU are the bitter grumpy one.  The poster you quoted was just pointing out a dynamic that existed in the game that DOES NOT EXIST today.....which ultimately had an effect on the community as a whole.

 

No where in thier post did that say that everyone should be wedged in a sandbox game so that sandbox enthusiasts can have a large MMORPG.  The fact of the matter was (in 1997) if you didn't like little aspects of the game play of Ultima Online, you either...

A) Went back to your console game

B) Went back to your pen & papper D&D

C) Sucked it up and adapted

 

For many, they went back to their Console or pen & papper game.  For the rest that decided to "deal" with minor aspects of the game play, they typically ended up becoming better "Gamers" because of it.  Not better people.....better gamers, as defined as someone who is capable of playing and manipulating their character and environment for their benefit.  As a UO player for over 4 years....I can tell you the average player in the Ultima Online community was FAR more knowledgeable of their character and the game than you'll find in an average player in World of Warcraft.

 " Laziness, the large influx of ultra casual players, and people interested in being the super duper hero all the time prevent a world and community like Ultima Online had from forming in the modern world of MMORPGs.  Our niche is tainted and won't ever recover. "

 

What dynamic? people having a choice? Is it somehow not possible to find a group of niche gamers that dont fall into this handy generalization of lazy,ultra casual,wanna be heros? Im sorry but just because games like wow and themepark games in general have achieved amazing numbers and success, it doesnt eliminate the demand for niche games like eq1 or uo. They will never equal the subs or success of the popular titles but there is still room for them.

Saying there can never be a community like uo and blaming it on the current gamers is ridiculous. No community will ever be exactly like a previous one but that doesnt mean there cant be similar ones that have the same feel and appeal.

  UODreams

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 1

5/09/11 5:22:07 PM#30

If EA would upgrade the graphics of the current UO, they would probably do a  lot better.


The Enhanced Client is horrible and to many gamers the Classic 2D client is bad too.


For those of us who love UO, we play anyway. Many for 10 years + and would hate to have to start over.  I dont think a completely new game would be possible without losing the vast majority of the current player base.  


  LadyAlyse

Novice Member

Joined: 2/21/11
Posts: 36

5/09/11 8:40:21 PM#31

I have been paying to play UO since December 1997.  I don't want better graphics, I enjoy the 2D!  :)

  hyllstarter

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/05
Posts: 199

5/09/11 8:53:29 PM#32

A great game doesnt need to have great graphics to be great.

  TheCrow2k

Novice Member

Joined: 10/19/09
Posts: 956

5/09/11 9:58:56 PM#33

UO was great and if they did re-invent it (provided they didnt mess with the formula too much) I for one would play it.


  EndDream

Novice Member

Joined: 12/07/05
Posts: 1170

5/09/11 10:03:00 PM#34
Originally posted by fodell54

Originally posted by EndDream



Originally posted by Groot


 UO was the only game to play back then and everyone from pve players, to pvp, to crafters, to roleplayers, etc etc all logged into the same world.  That's what made the world so great, the community so strong, and the game work.  The entire MMORPG niche was carved with that game.  There will not be a world like that again because all these different types of players have the option of picking a game that suits their playstyle, not creating their own role in a game in a world that they can do anything. 


UO is my favorite game of all time. I can truly say that it was some of  the best memories of my entire life. And unfortunatly, I have been chasing the virtual dragon ever since. But what Groot says is true, its IMPOSSIBLE for the world in which we played to come back. As Groot said, every type of player was in one world where players were given freedom. Thats what made the game amazing.


 



 

 


You need to go outside and get some sun.

Haha, actually I do now.. I'm quite busy with life as I am older. But UO was some great memories.

Remember Old School Ultima Online

  yaminsux

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/23/05
Posts: 685

5/09/11 10:39:48 PM#35

UO was great because of the PLAYERS not the game. If they remake/re-boot UO it'll never be the same.


  Kost

Newshound

Joined: 1/15/10
Posts: 2025

In omnibus requiem quaesivi, et nusquam inveni nisi in angulo cum libro.

5/09/11 10:44:46 PM#36
Originally posted by LadyAlyse

I have been paying to play UO since December 1997.  I don't want better graphics, I enjoy the 2D!  :)

True gamers like you are a rarity these days, kudos.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

5/09/11 10:59:05 PM#37

Ok, let me take a deep breath. ...

First off... I played Ultima VII maybe 30 or 40 times completely through. I played Ultima VI maybe 10 times through. I breathed, ate, drank and slept Ultima. There was a time when I knew the story of every rock and tree of Britannia.

That said: Ultima Online has for me as much to do with Ultima, like Readers Digest with the Nobel Price for Literature. Ultima Online had only 2 things in common with THE Ultima: the names of some stuff like Lord British or the cities and the shape of the landmass. THAT IS IT. I am not saying UO was a bad MMO. But it wasn't Ultima. Not at all!

 

What made Ultima great was that it was the pinnacle of CRPGs, and for me it remains on that pinnacle un-topped. What made Ultima great was that it had all these features the very best RPGs of our days have, but ALL of it. It has great story, memorable characters, unexpected and fascinating plot twists, the famous ethical dilemmas, a vast open world to explore, thousands of items to use and ways to interact, real night and day schedules. Ultima had everything decades before these things became the "trademark" of Bioware and Bethesda RPGs, only that Ultima had ALL THESE in ONE. If we trunctuate these into two hallmarks, you can call it story and vast open detailled world. The things which these days make Bioware and Bethesda games great.

The legendary breakthrough to whom we owe ALL our great RPGs of today was Ultima IV, Quest of the Avatar, when Richard Garriot changed the concept of what was supposed to be a computer game. It was the first of it's kind where you didn't just kill everything that moved, where it wasn't about some great evil or world at stake, but about YOU the player and his moral course.

Ultima ONLINE had almost nothing to do with it. Not that I minded people enjoying UO. But for me as ultimate Ultima fanboy, it was more a waste of time to focus on making UO instead of on making more single player games.

 

I CAN imagine a Ultima MMO, but only in the same sense as Bioware's SWTOR: as heavily story driven, with memorable companions and all these elements that made the SINGLE PLAYER games great. That would be the only worthy follower of the name Ultima. That, or a new single player series.

Anything else is nothing but a sacrilege. I am no kidding about anything Ultima.

"Remove your shoes, wanderer, for you tread on Holy Ground!"

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Timacek

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 182

5/10/11 1:40:47 AM#38

hope that UO2 would be sandbox asi UO was


  Velocinox

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 674

5/10/11 2:56:36 AM#39

Keep it. Otherwise you're going to dissapoint every poster above this one.


'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than the one you've become familiar with.


How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  SirAoS

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/10
Posts: 206

For those who have ears, let them hear..

5/10/11 4:41:32 AM#40

I currently play UO as a Alt game. It used to be my main game many years ago. Here is some great info that might help. Now this isn't a fact, but. My friend is friends with a family member of a DEV of UO and she leaked some info to him which he leaked to me that, soon, they plan on destroying the city of Luna, like the did with Magincia, and trying to being the life of the game back to the Old World. With that being said and most likely true. That probably means there is no plans for a UO2. I think they are going to continue on with the works of UO as long as there is a deticated player base. NOW.. I don't understand why Mythic(EA) wouldn't take the incredible concepts of what UO has and can offer and make it modern. Seeing ( in my opionian) It would actually become VERY successful. But, for whatever reason. They are happy with what they have now and will continue to milk it as long as there are people supporting it.


Well i hoped that info helped.


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