Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by cerebrix

 any problems funcom has ever experienced with a game, was solely because of one man.  Gaute Godager.

 Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened at ao's launch, or shadowlands.  Gaute Godager was solely responsible for anything bad that happened in AOC.

 Gaute was forced out.  Left the gaming industry forever over it.

He left the game industry completely? Wow, didn't know that. I only know Gaute from AoC and I don't know if all the blame can be put on his shoulders, sounds a bit too easy to me, but he certainly had an influence on the game design and the way how AoC was presented (and hyped). Who knows what the game would've been if he had gotten an extra year to finish the game in the way he wanted, it could've maybe been a PvPer's ultimate dream. We'll never know.

 

Tornquist is a totally different person, and for the kind of game TSW is with the kind of setting and lore it has, I think he's the ideal figure for it.

aoc was entirely his design.  based on his design document, he also managed the production as well as the production team.  just as he did with shadowlands in ao.

he started out with a lot of promise, but it really seems like hes just another designer with good ideas, but no plan to execute them to fruition.

Originally posted by cerebrix

aoc was entirely his design.  based on his design document, he also managed the production as well as the production team.  just as he did with shadowlands in ao.

 

he started out with a lot of promise, but it really seems like hes just another designer with good ideas, but no plan to execute them to fruition.

I can't say anything about the Shadowlands, 'cause I'm not familiar with how it played. But he did a number of things right, like the melee combat I still think is awesome or how they started out with the quests and the whole atmosphere. Although it felt to me that they had to rush a number of things. Like the combat was great, but they didn't manage to implement an equally compelling combat system for casters, or with a little extra effort they could've made the melee combat even better by letting you create your own combinations like the revamped ranger class was able to do.

Also, it seems to me that they had trouble with the engine, it just wasn't as solid aand sturdy as the one in other games. I think that was a setback that cost them a lot of time too, too much bughunting that was necessary and the sieges never ended up being as epic a feature as they could have been or said it would be. It sounded to me like a case where vision meets reality and limitations of the tools, with as result deadlines that were passed.

Hopefully the engine has been sorted out enough for Tornquist and his team to realise their vision in, without being forced to have TSW launched before it's ready.

From what is to read the newest version of the engine runs very well, i feel that AoC is sort of testing ground for them even they will never say so.
But they wrote in their business report that for TSW the "tech risks" be significant lower compared to AoC bcs of the matured engine.
Still they have big trouble with bugs in pvp sieges, bugs that be hard to reproduce.
TSW will launch without significant PvP as far i understand it with only a few "Battlegrounds".
But that is very ok to me, first they have to deliver a finished and release ready polished game.
With the setting they can allways do an expansion with PvP as good as in Daoc.

As good as the combat in AoC is the same time it drives many people away and the static execution of each specific melee combo isnt that good anyway.
I feel that the Ranger is now there where it should have allways been but for what Audience is this sort of combat attractive?
AoC never made it onto consoles and TSW wont make it too...

I don't think there is any real risk of FunCom jumping the gun on TSW. For one, they are almost exclusively funding this game themselves. Sure, that EA logo probably confuses a lot of people, but truth is EA has a single role and that is working the logistics of publishing in North America only.

FunCom remains the executive publisher of TSW in other territories. Also note that EA have been attached to the game late in the development process. One of the many problems during the production of AoC was having Eidos there as a big investor and co-publisher from day 1 constantly breathing down FunCom's neck.

Second, TSW probably sets some kind of record for production time when it comes to MMO's. Many probably don't know this world and lore - even detailed art work and scripts have been work in progress as far back as 1997. That's a long long time. This is Ragnar Tørnquist's labor of love, as I understand it, he fathered the idea early in the production of AO and since then he has been trying to get the studio to give the go on the idea, but FunCom probably said it had to wait until after AoC and Dreamfall. One thing that is interesting is that some people have been working on this project before it even entered official, funded development - for free, pro bono, gratis. That is pretty damn rare, and shows a burning passion for this game.

If we count the very seed of life for this intellectual property, Ragnar Tørnquist - already acknowledged as one of the very most esteemed story tellers in the game industry - has had 14 years to mature his story. You simply can not beat that.

As for the story... It's a breathtaking concept, I'm not sure even the most imaginative plebeian on this site knows exactly what FunCom has in store for us. But let's just say, it won't be for the lowest common denominator. Here's a quote from Ragnar's Blog:

I think Jim Rossignol from Rock, Paper, Shotgun nailed it best in his excellent preview: our goal is to be interesting. Different, ambitious, creative - yes - but most importantly, we want to make an interesting game. A game that engages - mechanically, emotionally, spiritually - and a game that doesn't underestimate its audience. PC and MMO players are skilled, experienced, smart and creative, and a huge portion of them are actual adults. Not enough games recognise these facts. I hope ours does.

I have been waiting for an intellectual MMO experience forever, and break my strict never-preorder anything rule, and I will have no problem dropping the money up front with the game unseen. If the game launches badly or against all odds sucks, I will have spoken with my wallet for more developers thinking like this man.

Originally posted by Mercantor

 

I think Jim Rossignol from Rock, Paper, Shotgun nailed it best in his excellent preview: our goal is to be interesting. Different, ambitious, creative - yes - but most importantly, we want to make an interesting game. A game that engages - mechanically, emotionally, spiritually - and a game that doesn't underestimate its audience. PC and MMO players are skilled, experienced, smart and creative, and a huge portion of them are actual adults. Not enough games recognise these facts. I hope ours does.

I have been waiting for an intellectual MMO experience forever, and break my strict never-preorder anything rule, and I will have no problem dropping the money up front with the game unseen. If the game launches badly or against all odds sucks, I will have spoken with my wallet for more developers thinking like this man.

I agree that the idea of a 'smarter', engaging mmorpg which doesn't underestimate its audience is great but it would never be the only reason for me to preorder "unseen". Provided that the game actually ends up being what they say, (i.e. 'promises' are kept), there's a gazillion more factors which can make or break a mmorpg; amount of content, stability, enough gameplay alternatives like fleshed out and fun pve and pvp, engaging crafting (not added as an afterthought for a change), a whole and immersive world, use of mechanics like phasing (hopefully not), etc..

I'd advise anyone to at least wait for some in-depth previews and beta reports :)

I've been in your shoes as well; being convinced about a game way before launch and buying into it ... and subsequently being very disappointed due to various unforseen reasons. I learned my lesson :)

I really hope that as Funcom's fabled labor of love, that TSW turns out to be the golden egg we've all been waiting for and secretly hoping for.

If all of the previous false starts and missteps have all been for this, then Funcom will probably earn some serious cred in the industry. Moreso than the devoted and growing fanbase they've already acquired over the years with age of conan (botched launch and all, it's still the more finished game of the 2 major MMOs that came out at the same time).

I just hope that they soon begin to allay our fears that this game will not live up to it's hype.. I hope that they begin to get down and dirty with the meat and potatoes of the mechanics of this game, especially if they plan on hitting the Q4 launch window to match GW2 (which is already eating up praise for originality and innovation) or the player-sustained hype factory of SWTOR.

I'd like to see a searchable wheel of skills.. even if it's coached in 'still beta, subject to substantial change with little warning' codicil.   Would give at least an idea of some of the design goals of their hugely unique system.

I'd like to see some of the character customization options.  Knowing AoC's options, I expect these to be brilliant.

I'd like to see the gear setup / paper doll, even as I know that they won't neccessarily be visual aspects of the avatar.  

I'd like to know more about the stat system and how it operates.

I'd like to know about the rp elements of the world, and the things we do when we're not solving conspiracies, fighting monsters, other factions, or the normal bump and grind of an MMO.

There's a lot of things that we 'know' but haven't seen.. a lot of things we don't even know about but that we expect, and a lot of things that we don't even know we don't know about.  These locations previews are great, and I hope they soon start filling in some of the Templar and Dragon locations as well so that we know if they've really made progress or if they're only showing us what's done... but ultimately, if this game is in early stages of beta, I want to know more about it's meat.

Originally posted by Figure

I'd like to know about the rp elements of the world, and the things we do when we're not solving conspiracies, fighting monsters, other factions, or the normal bump and grind of an MMO.

Well, we know that they have a fight club in London, the biggest of the 3 city hubs, where you can do unarmed combat (I think), so there's that.

But I agree on the rest, it's time for Tornquist & co to show what else the game got with the big conventions coming up.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Figure

I'd like to know about the rp elements of the world, and the things we do when we're not solving conspiracies, fighting monsters, other factions, or the normal bump and grind of an MMO.

Well, we know that they have a fight club in London, the biggest of the 3 city hubs, where you can do unarmed combat (I think), so there's that.

 

But I agree on the rest, it's time for Tornquist & co to show what else the game got with the big conventions coming up.

Woo! Sounds like drunken brawling that AOC . . . didn't . . . have. Damn it! I really want to like this game because it looks incredible, but Funcom really dug themselves a big hole with AOC. Guess all we can do at this point is watch and hope.

I'd like to know if it's more solo-friendly than their other games.  If not, I'm probably going to be skipping it.

Originally posted by Madimorga

I'd like to know if it's more solo-friendly than their other games.  If not, I'm probably going to be skipping it.

We don`t know yet. They will likely be focusing on both as ppl like to solo today, but there will still be group content. ARGs will also be both solo based and community based.

Originally posted by Destiny2010

Originally posted by Madimorga

I'd like to know if it's more solo-friendly than their other games.  If not, I'm probably going to be skipping it.

We don`t know yet. They will likely be focusing on both as ppl like to solo today, but there will still be group content. ARGs will also be both solo based and community based.

It will be interesting to find out, Funcom is probably the least solo-friendly developer still around, yet despite that, I would like to try TSW.  They are also innovators (not the best bug fixers in the world, I grant you, but innovators).  If they do decide to be more solo friendly, they could come up with new and unusual ways to incorporate more solo play. 

I really just give them a lot of credit for what they've done and how creative everything looks for TSW. I love how they are making it all come together in a modern setting... hell I love Guild Wars and obviously can't wait for GWdubs BUT I have to say, I feel like TSW will have more of my attention just because of the ideas that have been thrown out already and I cannot wait to see more. Dragon ftW

they lost me when AoC released. this game will need to almost literaly blow my socks off or at least have a free trial / open beta to convince me otherwise. AoC was such a bad experience .. far worse than any of the other flops including vanguard if you can believe that.

My biggest problem with funcom is the amount of exploiting and bugginess that they allow for so long.  They are so slow to fix stuff that it becomes part of the game.  Then they finally get around to changing stuff and end up wrecking some other, usually unrelated, part of their game.

Then there is their basic attitude of saying or doing whatever it takes to get subscribers.  I understand they need subs but Funcom bows down to the lowest common denominator just to get that monthly fee.

On the upside, they do make beautiful games that are very entertaining if you can overlook the bugs, mass exploits, and sometimes outright hacks that you are bound to run into.  And, given over 3 years from launch, they do eventually start to get things right.  Unfortunately most of the pop is gone by then.

I'd say play TSW for at least a month to experience the game.  Just don't believe a word Funcom tells you.  I mean, they claimed DX10 at launch and it took almost 3 years before they even had DX10 available in game.  Also, get ready for them to milk you for money every chance they get.

Originally posted by jetface

My biggest problem with funcom is the amount of exploiting and bugginess that they allow for so long.  They are so slow to fix stuff that it becomes part of the game.  Then they finally get around to changing stuff and end up wrecking some other, usually unrelated, part of their game.

 

Then there is their basic attitude of saying or doing whatever it takes to get subscribers.  I understand they need subs but Funcom bows down to the lowest common denominator just to get that monthly fee.

 

On the upside, they do make beautiful games that are very entertaining if you can overlook the bugs, mass exploits, and sometimes outright hacks that you are bound to run into.  And, given over 3 years from launch, they do eventually start to get things right.  Unfortunately most of the pop is gone by then.

 

I'd say play TSW for at least a month to experience the game.  Just don't believe a word Funcom tells you.  I mean, they claimed DX10 at launch and it took almost 3 years before they even had DX10 available in game.  Also, get ready for them to milk you for money every chance they get.

 It was about a year not three.

The thing people need to understand, and many do, that engine is already being used.  That alone means a ton of bugs are gone.  That was AOC's downfall as well as its extreme system requirements for 2008.  Its night and day with todays graphics cards compared to then.

Honestly, this is the only MMO I am waiting for unless someone comes out with a shadowbane or swg 2.0.  It looks fun, interesting, and the storyline and setting is what I would like. 

Funcom has 2 MMO's under their belt that both could have been really good(especially AO imo)

but the bugs and/or lack of content were big negatives..

I remember hitting lvl 40ish in AoC and having absolutely nothing to do..so I quit.(this being close to a month after it launched)

will they screw up again with The Secret World?  god I hope not,becuase on paper the game looks awesome.

Originally posted by cerebrix

anyone that lump sums a company based on overall performance is a moron. 

 

Anyone who makes this statement is either a master of irony or a banker.  Its just too perfect of a statement so I'm guessing the former.

 

And, I agree, never judge a company on their past products.  That is ludicrous.  If they sold you bullshit one day, it could be gold the next.

All the problems with AoC at launch were known by those who did the beta, so those players knew a S-storm was comming. The premature launch was such a bad, and obvious choice they had to have been pressured into it. To this day Funcom hasn't disscused it publicly. I found it to be kind of telling that with TSW  they initialy stated that they would be self publishing the game to retain complete control of the launch, and only a year away from launch they signed a co-publishing deal with EA. Seems like they felt the burn to me, and are handling TSW more wisely.

Until they can fix the game engine in AoC, then it is not fixed for TSW, no way.. still havn't fixed AO for that matter...

With the Funcom haters, i've heard them called conspirators, liars, cheats, criminals...why dont you throw in child molesters while you're at it?