After spending some time in the open beta in Forsaken World, MMORPG.com Lead Writer Bill Murphy has come some thoughts about potential flaws with the game. In The List today, Bill points out Five Things Forsaken World Does Wrong. See if you agree and then weigh in with your thoughts in the comments.

Last week was all about the things I personally enjoyed within Perfect World Entertainment’s Forsaken World. Of course the comments quickly degraded into a “why are you even covering this game?” debate, but that’s not going to stop me from using this week to talk about a few things I believe Forsaken World screws the pooch on. Something tells me it won’t have nearly as many detractors. Of course there will be those few who wonder why we cover F2P MMOs at all, and my answer will always be the same: “There’s an audience for everything.” If Forsaken World isn’t your cup of tea, nothing I write will change your mind. That said, it is one of the more engaging Asian conversions on the market and is newly released. Therefore I feel it’s within my scope of duty to give the title its due diligence.

Read more of Bill Murphy's The List: Five Things Forsaken World Does Wrong.

Pay to Chat is the best system ever introduced to F2P titles IMO.

Whilst of course those who are dedicated F2P players will hate it,  it is a godsend to those who do spend a little money and spend more time ignoring F2P players than they do actually playing.

Players are far less likeley to abuse people in chat etc if they have paid a little money for the privelage whereas a total F2P player will do and say what the heck they like as whats the worst that could happen - they lose a free account.

I also can't quite agree with your 5th point either all games IMO not just F2P should have cash shop "Grind" substitutions.

Yes I'm a casual player who's time is a little more important than money with job, family other activities I don't get masses of time to play MMO's but I enjoy the genre and I would like to be able to compete when I do choose to play one if that competitiveness comes from putting a little cash to a company then so be it a F2P player can still do it completely for free with time investment.

Lets not forget on a lot of occasions if that f2p player is from your country your taxes are paying for him to play so why not a system that can put things on a even keel.

I cant become immersed into a game's world without a community and next to a good guild chat, a server wide chat channel delivers that sense of "world".  

The first major turn off to me with FW was the autonavigation system.  I cant play MMOs with that function.  It takes all navigation and discovery out of your hands.  Absolutely terrible.

And I realize that this wasnt covered in his article, but what the hell is wrong with the camera/movement relationship?  WASD movement,  but A and D straffe?WTF?  And there is no way to change it?(to my knowledge) And u have to manually turn the camera with the mouse for every minor turn or else you toon will be facing you.  Total fail in controls. 

Originally posted by thamighty213

I also can't quite agree with your 5th point either all games IMO not just F2P should have cash shop "Grind" substitutions.

Yes I'm a casual player who's time is a little more important than money with job, family other activities I don't get masses of time to play MMO's but I enjoy the genre and I would like to be able to compete when I do choose to play one if that competitiveness comes from putting a little cash to a company then so be it a F2P player can still do it completely for free with time investment.

Lets not forget on a lot of occasions if that f2p player is from your country your taxes are paying for him to play so why not a system that can put things on a even keel.

So you want to be able to compete on the same level as someone who has invested hrs. upon more hrs. into his/her character?  Then MMOs arent/shouldnt be for you.  Go play console FPS or DoTA style games.  MMOs arent and shouldnt be a pick up n pwn style of game.  

I dont know what country you are from, but wtf are u talking about?

All PW games are created & structured the same way. So for anyone who's familiar with any of their previous titles, all this is known.

- the reason why they've implemented the auto path is simple: a). this is becoming a normal feature in most asian MMOs, and b). some of their games have a built in bot system that allows you to grind while being away from the PC - legally. But of course, it can be done only by buying certain cash shop items that are consumed while on auto. Ppl need to get to their spot fast, and they're paying for that; ppl are lazy and don't like repetition - running on the same paths 100 times a day is not everyone's kind of fun ;)

- the "pay to chat" function is actually a good thing IMO: less gold spammers and immature kids. Of course the usual rich & bored kids will still abuse the system, but at least they're doing it on their own expense.

- most PW games allow their players to reach a higher level before putting some serious cash shop pressure on them; further more, they do give their noobs those (in)famous "starter packs/boxes", that often give item mall content. It's only a matter of saving all the valuable stuff and using them only when really needed. ON THE OTHER HAND, this company is wellknown for knowing how to milk their players dry, so anyone willing to play one of their games to the top should be prepared to shell a lot of real money (I did it myself, so I know how costly it can get) - if you wanna be a top dog, then you're gonna be a top cash shop spender, too - sadly, it can't be avoided.

Nice write-up. I honestly expected your list to include a few deal-breakers for me, but that wasn't the case. The information overload is the only thing that truly concerns me here. There is simply no excuse for a game not giving enough instruction on how the internal systems work. The only thing worse is a game that gives wrong or misleading info.

Keep these up, Bill. How about doing this for Argo?

People actually play this nonsense ? Pay to chat, purchasable buffs in pvp ? It just makes me want to play it right now.

All PWI games are tripe. Nuff said. I weep for the Torchlight MMO.

Originally posted by Axeshun

Originally posted by thamighty213

I also can't quite agree with your 5th point either all games IMO not just F2P should have cash shop "Grind" substitutions.

Yes I'm a casual player who's time is a little more important than money with job, family other activities I don't get masses of time to play MMO's but I enjoy the genre and I would like to be able to compete when I do choose to play one if that competitiveness comes from putting a little cash to a company then so be it a F2P player can still do it completely for free with time investment.

Lets not forget on a lot of occasions if that f2p player is from your country your taxes are paying for him to play so why not a system that can put things on a even keel.

So you want to be able to compete on the same level as someone who has invested hrs. upon more hrs. into his/her character?  Then MMOs arent/shouldnt be for you.  Go play console FPS or DoTA style games.  MMOs arent and shouldnt be a pick up n pwn style of game.  

 

I dont know what country you are from, but wtf are u talking about?

 

In short yes,   reaching level cap for a  casual player is a mammoth undertaking by which point the majority of the hardcore and semi hardcore are all decked out in their PVP gear,  nothing negates the need for it its just a different method of ataining it sure there are those rarities who have both masses of disposable income and 16 hrs a day to play but believe me they are the exception not the norm.

I dont want to play console games and I do play FPS however I like the MMO genre and the social interaction in a setting I enjoy especially PVP MMO's but when it takes months and months for a more casual player like myself to "grind" the gear needed to compete even post level cap then it's the quickest thing that puts me off a game.

As for country I'm from the UK,  what I was referring to is the fact 99%+ of players I know who play all day everyday can do so because they are on the dole (state benefit) thus it is my taxes that pays for them to play those 16hrs a day.

This should be entitled five reasons not to play Forsaken world^^

As people are in troll mood I'll give more details.

I get about 20 hrs playtime a week but I enjoy other genres such as FPS few hrs BC2 a week,  RPG just finished DA2 about to dive back into ME2 as I now have all the DLC, indie titles currently enjoying Magicka and I like racing games so having a play through GRID again whilst waiting for DIRT 3  I generally split my time to 10 hrs MMO 10 hrs other games unless a game really grips me then the time may sway.

I enjoyed Aion - Yes forgive me for my sins.

Aion is horribly skewed gear > skill

It took me as a casual player playing around 10 hrs a week 7 month to get to cap (hardcore can do it in 3 weeks or so) by which point the majority of the server was already in their +10 PVP gear,  My estimates for me to catch up to them was another 7-12 month of doing the exact same thing at every single login (groups permitting) which would be grinding AP or working on the mind numbing fenri's quests I simply couldnt take that so quit.

I would have most likley stayed and still been enjoying the game if there was a viable purchase option to put me on a even keel with those other players at the NC store.

I can't grasp the logic of those who think its a bad thing sure you have a tiny percentage who can abuse it through masses of time and masses of income but they are sharp caught up at launch by the aforementioned hardcore for the most part it simply means players like myself can continue to play but on a even foot.

Higher income for development, larger community, more competitive community its all win win.

It's not laziness,  I put 60 hrs a week in at my job I have 2 kids at home I'm anything but lazy it's simply a case of wanting to enjoy a genre I do enjoy but don't have the time to always compete depending on how the titles PVP balance is.

Originally posted by Axeshun

Originally posted by Muppetier

Originally posted by Axeshun

Originally posted by thamighty213

I also can't quite agree with your 5th point either all games IMO not just F2P should have cash shop "Grind" substitutions.

Yes I'm a casual player who's time is a little more important than money with job, family other activities I don't get masses of time to play MMO's but I enjoy the genre and I would like to be able to compete when I do choose to play one if that competitiveness comes from putting a little cash to a company then so be it a F2P player can still do it completely for free with time investment.

Lets not forget on a lot of occasions if that f2p player is from your country your taxes are paying for him to play so why not a system that can put things on a even keel.

So you want to be able to compete on the same level as someone who has invested hrs. upon more hrs. into his/her character?  Then MMOs arent/shouldnt be for you.  Go play console FPS or DoTA style games.  MMOs arent and shouldnt be a pick up n pwn style of game.  

 

I dont know what country you are from, but wtf are u talking about?

 

If someone enjoys an MMO then its not really for you to say that they should not be playing.

Let me guess, you are another p2w'r?  MMOs like it or not, take time and dedication to "compete".  I hate p2w games(as i believe most do) and therefore dispise p2w'rs.  I think its rather unfair for ppl to put in time and effort building their character to the best of their abilities and grinding away dungs or mats or quests or wutever only to be outplayed by an overgeared, unskilled p2pwn'r.  

 

So it is for me to defend my favorite genre of gaming against p2w'rs and tell them to go elsewhere.

 

Its not p2w it p2c

Certainly my perspective I don't want to pay to win I want to pay to compete theres no fun in pwning someone with overpowered gear same as theres no fun by being massacred by someone in overpowered gear that a casual player can never really attain.  Hell  don't release the stuff on cash shop until x% of the playerbase is already wearing it then I can't see the problem.

Originally posted by Axeshun

Originally posted by Muppetier

Originally posted by Axeshun

Originally posted by thamighty213

I also can't quite agree with your 5th point either all games IMO not just F2P should have cash shop "Grind" substitutions.

Yes I'm a casual player who's time is a little more important than money with job, family other activities I don't get masses of time to play MMO's but I enjoy the genre and I would like to be able to compete when I do choose to play one if that competitiveness comes from putting a little cash to a company then so be it a F2P player can still do it completely for free with time investment.

Lets not forget on a lot of occasions if that f2p player is from your country your taxes are paying for him to play so why not a system that can put things on a even keel.

So you want to be able to compete on the same level as someone who has invested hrs. upon more hrs. into his/her character?  Then MMOs arent/shouldnt be for you.  Go play console FPS or DoTA style games.  MMOs arent and shouldnt be a pick up n pwn style of game.  

 

I dont know what country you are from, but wtf are u talking about?

 

If someone enjoys an MMO then its not really for you to say that they should not be playing.

Let me guess, you are another p2w'r?  MMOs like it or not, take time and dedication to "compete".  I hate p2w games(as i believe most do) and therefore dispise p2w'rs.  I think its rather unfair for ppl to put in time and effort building their character to the best of their abilities and grinding away dungs or mats or quests or wutever only to be outplayed by an overgeared, unskilled p2pwn'r.  

 

So it is for me to defend my favorite genre of gaming against p2w'rs and tell them to go elsewhere.

 

I, too, do not enjoy pay to win but i simply avoid it. that way p2w players can enjoy the company of other p2w players and see who is willing to pay moar to win moar! and then afterwards they sit down for some nice tea and trade tall tales of victory achieved through unscrupulous spending!

In most MMOs there are tiers of PvP.  So u dont have to technically grind 7 months to end game to "compete" w/ others.  And most cash shops are not there to balance out those who dont have the time to grind, they are there to OP the hell outta those who use it.  

There will always be a segment of an MMOs pop. that  obsess and play 16hrs a day 7 days a week.  Those ppl will always be around, but the cash shop OP'rs dont have to be around, that is enabled by the games.  And I'd rather be pwnd by a lifeless obsesser in PvP than a 12 y.o. richy rich that swiped his mommy's VISA to get his the " ALL POWERFUL ENCHANT OF PWNURASS".

If you put too much into the cash stop where it's buffing the character too much compared to others without a ton of effort, your shooting yourself in the foot.

Free to play players (who don't want to pay) will just leave as I can't see it much fun in putting a ton of effort in, where others can just buy their superiority and camp you all day.

Then what your left with are only the paying people, who have a smaller population to play in, and have no advantage over each other which is what they thought they paid for.

Meh.. maybe I just hate cash shops, but this seems to be doing it without really thinking of the long term implecations.

The Pay to Chat feature is little more than a way to allow PWE to profit from gold spammers. MapleStory had this feature, too, and it's probably second to none when it comes to bots and spammers.

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Originally posted by Axeshun
And I realize that this wasnt covered in his article, but what the hell is wrong with the camera/movement relationship?  WASD movement,  but A and D straffe?WTF?  And there is no way to change it?(to my knowledge) And u have to manually turn the camera with the mouse for every minor turn or else you toon will be facing you.  Total fail in controls. 

---

I'd be surprised if you couldn't change your controls, but WASD movement (with A and D as strafe) is pretty much the way it's played. Using keys to turn is FAR too slow in almost every case, and even if sped up, it doesn't offer the accuracy of a mouse in any circumstance. Most games do not default to this, and it is always the first thing that I and many, many others change. Defaulting to a more practical control scheme is hardly "total fail".

PWE are bullls company for developing games, I wonder why the hell are any people still playing their games.

Originally posted by Shroom_Mage

The Pay to Chat feature is little more than a way to allow PWE to profit from gold spammers. MapleStory had this feature, too, and it's probably second to none when it comes to bots and spammers.

 

---

Originally posted by Axeshun
And I realize that this wasnt covered in his article, but what the hell is wrong with the camera/movement relationship?  WASD movement,  but A and D straffe?WTF?  And there is no way to change it?(to my knowledge) And u have to manually turn the camera with the mouse for every minor turn or else you toon will be facing you.  Total fail in controls. 

---

 

I'd be surprised if you couldn't change your controls, but WASD movement (with A and D as strafe) is pretty much the way it's played. Using keys to turn is FAR too slow in almost every case, and even if sped up, it doesn't offer the accuracy of a mouse in any circumstance. Most games do not default to this, and it is always the first thing that I and many, many others change. Defaulting to a more practical control scheme is hardly "total fail".

Using A and D too slow to turn?  Thats a first....  Ive played way too many MMOs to list and I can only recall a couple that were defaulted to this broken control scheme.  And most of the majority of them had straffe and turn options such as Q and E strafee A and D turn W and S for foward and back.  That is pretty much the standard.  

But by the look of your other comment, I guess you are a blind defender of FW so nvm.

Originally posted by thamighty213

As people are in troll mood I'll give more details.

 

I get about 20 hrs playtime a week but I enjoy other genres such as FPS few hrs BC2 a week,  RPG just finished DA2 about to dive back into ME2 as I now have all the DLC, indie titles currently enjoying Magicka and I like racing games so having a play through GRID again whilst waiting for DIRT 3  I generally split my time to 10 hrs MMO 10 hrs other games unless a game really grips me then the time may sway.

 

I enjoyed Aion - Yes forgive me for my sins.

 

Aion is horribly skewed gear > skill

It took me as a casual player playing around 10 hrs a week 7 month to get to cap (hardcore can do it in 3 weeks or so) by which point the majority of the server was already in their +10 PVP gear,  My estimates for me to catch up to them was another 7-12 month of doing the exact same thing at every single login (groups permitting) which would be grinding AP or working on the mind numbing fenri's quests I simply couldnt take that so quit.

 

I would have most likley stayed and still been enjoying the game if there was a viable purchase option to put me on a even keel with those other players at the NC store.

 

I can't grasp the logic of those who think its a bad thing sure you have a tiny percentage who can abuse it through masses of time and masses of income but they are sharp caught up at launch by the aforementioned hardcore for the most part it simply means players like myself can continue to play but on a even foot.

Higher income for development, larger community, more competitive community its all win win.

It's not laziness,  I put 60 hrs a week in at my job I have 2 kids at home I'm anything but lazy it's simply a case of wanting to enjoy a genre I do enjoy but don't have the time to always compete depending on how the titles PVP balance is.

I understand your point. However by allowing players like you to pay to be as good as someone who has spent the time in game and "paid the dues" by earning not paying for the levels and gear you are ruining the experience for those who do not want to pay.  Should there be games for people like you who are casual, non-dedicated players.. yes. And here is one.  Excuse the rest of us who are dedicated players who hate the idea of paying to win, because we will not be playing this game with you.  Let us, on the other hand enjoy our games where you cannot pay to win and you must earn everything.  We understand if you will not be there playing with us, as long as you do not come in and then ask that the game be changed to suit your whims.  My opinion.